I had free range chickens when I was a boy. 9 banty hens and a Rhode Island rooster to marshall them. I got from the twin brothers who farmed down the road a way. In the summer, I dumped a coffee can of feed anywhere, they scratched it up, and supplemented their diet with insects and stray weeds. I sold their eggs for $2 dozen. In 1987! I didn't set the price though. People paid what they felt like. That is why I got the $2... That and they were the best eggs I have ever had! If you have the space, free range chickens are about the easiest animal to raise. They had a coop they came back to at night, and most of the hens laid their eggs there. Although, one did escape to the marsh nearby and nearly got shot during pheasant season when she exploded out from under my feet!
Also, even if you don't sell the eggs, you won't need to buy eggs anymore. That is a saving that really adds up over time.

I have never raised rabbits, but I have heard they are not so difficult.

Pigs... no idea. But pigs can be useful to clean up fields in the fall, and manure them as well!

You might consider some other possibilities- Khaki Campbell ducks (eggs), Muscovy Ducks (meat), or my latest dream, Dexter mini-cattle. Imagine a cow the size of a St. Bernard (quite a bit wider tho...)

Check out the link to Journey To Forever below if you aren't already a regular there.

Eric in Japan

Here is a link that might be useful: Journey To Forever Farming With Animals

Easy question - Eisenia fetida!

Thanks for the feedback! Had to look up what in the world were eisenia fetida! ;-)

Eric, you have me very interested. Please tell me more about ducks and mini-cattle. How do duck eggs taste? Do you keep ducks in a coop? Are you doing ducks and mini-cattle? And thanks *a lot* for the Journey To Forever link. I'm pretty new to this stuff and had not seen it before.

I have never tried duck eggs to my knowledge, but I have heard they are similar to chicken eggs, with a bit stronger flavor. Strong in what way, I don't know. I will have free range ducks, with a coop to keep them safe at night. At least I will try to have free range ducks.... They need to eat the slugs in my garden. Over the past two days I have picked 200+ slugs from my 5x5 three sisters plot. I drown them in soapy water and put them on my compost pile. Although slugs are brown, I think they are greens :) I also heard the Khaki Campbell ducks lay more eggs than most chickens. You can check out the McMurray hatchery homepage for lots of info about kinds of poultry. Great place.

At only a quarter acre, I don't have the room for mini-cattle, or the money. They would be pretty expensive to ship here (I don't know of any Dexters in Japan), and I can't imagine that artificial insemination of a Japanese cow with dexter would be either practical or cheap. They remain a pipe dream for me.

Another good permaculture and homesteading link is for Path to Freedom .

Enjoy animals!
Eric in Japan

Here is a link that might be useful: McMurray Hatchery

I would consider turkeys rather than chickens. When we had chikens they would be all over town, the neighbor's yard, the neighbor's garden, in MY garden! I had enough pests, never should have added another. And the crowing at 4 a.m. (2 a.m. on a bright moonlit night!!) just doesn't work in the suburbs.

Turkeys on the other hand, will pretty much stay in the yard. I did have to clip their wings a few times until they learned to respect the fence, but now they stay put. Their gobbling is much less irritating than the roosters crowing. Eggs tase the same but they are much tougher than chicken eggs and the yolk just doesn't want to mix well with the whites in scrambled eggs. I've got black spanish and bronze broadbreasted. Not to mention the flocks of wilds that stop by to chat.

Poppa

Yup, duck eggs are like a stronger hen's egg. They smell stronger and taste stronger...more...."eggy"!. They're also a bit bigger than hens egggs. Most domestic ducks can't fly so you don't need to keep them in a coop - just protect them from any predators you might get (foxes etc.). They live to hunt snails and slugs (though they will also scoff your baby seedlings!) and their quacking isn't nearly so disrupting as cockrels crowing. You don't need a male unless you're intending to breed from them. You also don't need water (as in a pond), though most people provide them with something. Their poop is high in nitrogen and a great fertilizer.

Ducks are much more fun and characterful than chickens IMO. :)

Alcina

Momto8kiddos, what did you decide to start with? I am dying to know!

I would love to keep turkeys, but the neighbors have chickens. You can't mix the two without medicating the turkeys for... black..something disease I have heard. Does anyone know about that?

Alcina, do you have ducks? In London?! Or have you had duck eggs elsewhere? If you know, what kind of ducks were the eggs from? Like I said, I am looking for Khaki Campbells.

Eric in Japan.

I think the disease is Blackhead, or something like that.

Turkeys are more sensitive to heat than chickens, & they eat more. If you want turkeys for more than a year or so, be sure to not get the Large-Breasted types. They've been bred for large breasts & short lives, & their legs will break down under their own weight.

Flighty chickens are mostly lightweight chickens, like the Leghorns & their crosses. (I think that's where the term "bird brain" comes from!)

I have a heavy breed, Buff Orpingtons, that are good for both eggs and meat, they're pretty docile & they aren't much on flying. You can raise Buffs and use the males for meat & the females for eggs. If you're not into butchering, just get hens; they do just fine without a rooster harassing them. Of course, if you want chicks, you'll need a rooster.

If you haven't already, check out Andy Lee's book "Chicken Tractor". Full of good ideas.

'Pup

Momto8kiddos as a momto3kiddos who wanted to earn a little money while staying at home, I decided to go back in to meat rabbits. We had them before and always had good luck. I'm sure we're luckier than most because the rabbit processing plant is only 15 minutes away. we take our bunnies there and get any where from 95cents a pound to $1.30 a pound depening on the time of year(higher prices in winter)that's for live weight so there is no extra labour involved.Having Rabbits always left time for other things as well..like the garden, laundy and as you know house work.lol good luck Jaime

I have ducks in a tractor. They eat grass and weeds, but don't tear up the ground scratching like chickens. I let my half-grown ducks out, nearly adult size, and one choked to death on a slug, so it cooled me on letting them run around.

Duck eggs are wonderful. The whites are crystal clear and firm, not yellowish and runny like chicken eggs. Poached, I would describe them as more flavorful and succulent. Once you have them chicken eggs will never seem good enough again. :-P I have Golden 300's (how many eggs they can lay in a year) and I think one parent is the Khaki Campbell. They are supposedly bred to be calmer. Having a bucket where they can dip their heads to wash their eyes is supposed to be sufficient. In summer I put them in a kid's wading pool surrounded by a fence 2-3 times a week, mostly because it is fun to watch them swim and splash.

Oh, and they are hardier than chickens and don't need as much shelter. They also don't get coccidiosis and don't need (are not supposed to have) medicated feed. Up here I had lots of trouble with coccidiosis with chickens and had to feed medicated food until they went to adult food.

I have raised Rabbits, Chickens, Ducks and Geese.
For the Eggs I like Geese the best, but they can be loud and are a bit messy.
My favorite to raise are the rabbits.
Lots of Manure, cheap food, and as long as you are clean with their cages and feed and water utensils, not much of a problem with disease. You can also do Rabbit Tractors.

If you have brushy areas, try goats (you need at least two, they complain loudly when lonely). Nubians are good for both milk and meat.

Hello everybody. My first time in any forum at Gardenweb. This is my very first posting.

I've done e x t e n s i v e study on this and similar questions for about eight years now.

Everyone will have personal preferences on what they like. BUT, I also highly recommend you obtain a copy of The Chicken Tractor by Andy Lee.

You can get it through interlibrary loan from a public library in any major metropolitan city, like St. Louis, Missouri USA. Or you can buy it from ACRES USA. Just go to www.acresusa.com and click on books.

Andy "details" how he used bottomless, portable chicken tractor pens over his garden beds from the previous year's garden. The chickens were moved once a day, cleaning up weeds, weed seeds, bugs, and lightly fertilizing the soil with one days's manuring. They stirred the manure into the old rotted hay spread as bedding each day, so there was no smell.

Each year Andy alternated the current garden on one acre with the chickens moving through last year's garden on the acre next to it. In his fifth year, he produced $36,000 of veggies (sold) and $25,000 meat and eggs (sold). $51,000 gross income on two acres of chickens and veggies. Cool!

Oops. Forgot something.

As regards ducks. I've read in several books and numerous articles that the Muscovy duck breed DOES NOT QUACK.

No annoying the neighbors with noise if you keep Muscovies.

Yes, ducks are great and lovely to watch, but they will hike a mile to poop on your porch!

Hi, If you have no experience with owning animals I'd start with worms, or bantams in a chicken tractor, excellent plans for one in - The permaculture Home Garden by Linda Woodrow.
best of luck.
Lou

they eat snakes.
Many people keep them for that reason (they die of old age, too)
I've never seen one eat a snake, but stick one in a canal and no more snakes.

We are looking at starting with chickens and pigs!! No one has mentioned pigs yet. Any feed back at all would be wonderful. Thanks - DJ

Hi, Hogs are pretty easy to raise we have 6 sows and a boar we will be haveing litters of pigs born about every 20 days starting this week for next 5 months and 6th sow will be ai in a week,a sow can have 5 litters in 2 years time or 2 1/2 litters a year .these sows have 9-12 pigs each they dont always all survive, the new one that is due this week her first time came from a small litter of 5 but even if she has a small litter she will be usefull to take some pigs from a sow that has 12 at same time so we will keep her, we should have 20 sows and gilts by end of year and hope to have new 30 by 60 barn built.we just got back on net today gave it and a lot of other things up to build this place up, we feed hogs 4 pounds at 5 am and another 4 pounds again at 4 pm everyday they get water 3 times a day min more if needed they are on concreat floors with straw and and have attached outdoor pens that we close off in below zero weather. 7 hogs use almost 2000 pounds of feed a month ,they use maintnance feed so its not bad under$170.00 a month deliverd in bulk for 7 hogs,pig feed is a bit more but if you raisepigs to butcher weight insted of selling them at 50 pounds you can get them to 240 pounds for under 40 bucks a head .we have very cold well water so in winter we fill 5 gallon buckets with fresh water and let it set in house between waterings to get to room temp.we dont use crates for sows we check on them regular when they get close time to deliver some times they need help to clear airway of new pigs but most are running and screaming shortly after birth .pigs should get iron shot at a few days-few weeks old any latter and ham meat could stain like purple meat you might see at store ,pigs are easy to worm with med added to water are sows get worm med shots,males get castrated at 3 weeks litter is weaned at 4 weeks .we also have over 80 egg laying chickens 2 coops soon a third coop, 20 turkeys, many worm boxes thousands of worms ,3 ducks lost one to a stray cat we buy feeder calves and soon hope to by black angus heffers ,we buy and sell goats and soon sheep,we had 5 doe and 3 buck rabbits but theres many people raiseing rabbits around here so i gave away all breeders we saved two pets and let many meat rabbits go loose here ,most are still here after a year and will hang out with us in yard,we have several indoor cats and 6 dogs had to put one of are 12 year old dogs down this last winter because of cancer.it might take me a few days to get back here on GW we are working sun up to sundown trying to make extra cash to get farm going . hope the hog enfo was helpfull .its nice to be back on GW . Mike

The main problem with pigs is that you need a tight, strong fence and you need to keep them clean.

From what my vet says, pigs are notorious escape artists.

Pig poop stinks. There's no way around it. My neighbors 3 doors away raised two of them for 4H, and I was downwind of them. (The properties here are side by side like most residential, with the rest of the acre out back.) They did their best, and they sure weren't the worst I've smelled, but everyone who visited when the breeze was blowing knew what they had up the street.

If flying chickens would be a problem, get a heavy breed. Bantams fly and will roost in trees at night. Don't plan on catching them very often if you let them run loose and don't make pets of them.

Muscovies won't patrol for slugs and snails.

Sue

how much land do you have and what type feeds do you produce? any animal that eats purchased feed will probably cost more than going to the grocer and buying it already butchered. You can probably buy a pig to butcher cheaper than you can feed it unless you are getting free garbage from the restraunt then you need to raise 2 and have a mile to the neighbors or they may complain of the smell. Meat chickens are a good place to start with animal keeping buy the day olds feed them 7 weeks then put them in the freezer and you are done evaluate the project then plan the next one. All animals need daily care repeat that 6 times. If you buy a couple spring lambs you can quite buying gas for the mower and come fall put up a hudred pounds of lamb. geese also eat lots of grass. turkeys are the absolute dumbest animal ever created and are sometimes even too stupid to start eating or drinking. expect a high mortality rate for turkey as they are the most desease prone of all poultry. chickens and hogs eat almost no grass despite what tractor books claim. ducks have much more personality than chickens but are extremely messy and will go through gallons of water a day, creating mud holes at the water and spill vast amounts of feed. meat chickens have the best feed to meat conversion about 3-4 lbs food per lb live hogs follow at about 4-5. that is providing you get the feed into the animal not on the ground. fish can get almost down to 2-3 lbs feed per live pound. If best return on money is the key factor i am not sure raising animals is a good idea since you will need to spend money on the facilities equipment and feeds. buy from the grocer on sale and you will be money ahead guarenteed. here is a simple math workup 50 cornish cross at 1 dollar each raise to five lb live x 3lb feed @$.20 x50=150 dollars plus the 50 dollars or 200 dollars for 50 bids dressed to 3 lbs each 150 lb chicken for 200 dollars this allows 0 for motality losses 0 for processing and 0 for buiding cages pens or buying feeders lites etc. this week chickens already processed in a bag are .69 cent per lb at the local market.150 lb chicken at the grocer this week is 103.5 no expense in time to raise or pluck but no byproducts like feathers or manure. Also forget dual purpose that just means excells at nothing get either meat birds or egg birds since as you can already see your costs for home production will be higher than purchasing finished products. the hangup for home produced meats and eggs and dairy is the feed costs the comercials get feed costs down to about a nickel or less a lb and make very little per head operating in large qty with lower labor per head than you can.

Pork IS cheaper to raise than to buy it even if you have to buy the feed at least here in michigan if you know what your doing.no animal will gain weight like it should unless it has fresh water at all times.and most meat in the store is raised on drugs for quick weight gains some people i guess dont mind the drugs in their food . Mike

Hogs are cheaper to raise than buying meat from store even if you have to buy the feed and if neibors dont like smell tell them to move back to the city.i posted earlyer but its not here now ,wonder why post with bad info not facts get left on here and my post was taken off .ive raised hogs for 3 years now. maybe people who prefer store pork also prefer the drugs in the meat. Mike

Sorry :(

I've raised pigs (two during the growing season...get a runt or a male weaner from a local farmer...mine are usually free or next to free)...they don't stink if they have room...I've used 10 feet by 10 feet 'corrals' made of slab wood to keep them in, move the corral (with the aid of a friend or two) with the pigs in it every so often...you essentially have a pig tractor and a good space to plant next year...plus pork. If you have goats and can give the pigs some excess milk each day it is a bonus...

Depends on where you live and how much land. Another thing is what you are willing to tolerate. We have guineas, chickens, ducks, and goats. We have also had rabbits and a hog (he was good). Guineas will hunt for themselves with little maintanance feed (except for winter), they eat snakes, mice, and frogs. On the other hand it takes a place to keep them locked up for 6-9 months of feeding them before they realize they are home and stay and get them young, they are very noisey, but usually only when you need to hear something, and depending on how much attention they get can be overly friendly (ours swarm the car when we get home) I think they are spoiled. We have about 30.

Some chickens are good, some are bad. Ours do pretty much what they want until I can't take it and lock them up. Except for digging dusting spots, hiding eggs (only a few do this)and getting into my garden plants and destroying them (again only a few) they aren't to bad. We have about 50 hens and 5 roosters (early risers).

Our goats have taught us the most. Our female nubian is as sweet as pie and will come to you when called by name. Her baby a kinder male is also very sweet and comes by name he is almost two. But then we have a very stubborn pygmy male that is very destructive ( he wasn't dehorned). He has stripped about 30 trees of their bark, destroyed every pen (including one about 3/4 of an acre big) even rolled up a 6' no climb horse fence. Did I mention male goats stink!!! Don't put them close to your house.

Rabbits can also be good or bad we had about 25 for awhile and only one was a brat.... biting all the time. Water bottles freeze, nails need trimmed, and they need sticks to chew on as their teeth keep growing (and they will chew a wood cage to toothpicks quick) we used metal.

I love pigs, I think they are the easiest of all of them. Yes pigs do smell but you can keep them from smelling by having 2 pens. when mine started smelling we put 1/2 cup baby shampoo in a 2 gallon sprayer full of water and sprayed the empty smelly pen. They smell goes away very fast. Our guy was about 200 pounds and we kept him in with 4 hog panels. He was very friendly also.

Our ducks are just funny we have about 20. All but the little ones are allowed to run. They do love to poop on porches (but won't as bad if you keep the light off at night) They eat all kinds of bugs, frogs, small snakes, and I even seen one with a ground squirrel. I was advised not to get muscovies because they will cover you car, house or anything else with poop as they fly well. Not sure but I stuck with a indian runner/ mallard mix.

I think anyone could handle any animal if they are truely determined to. I think I would start with a few chickens or ducks. What ever you decide remember don't impulse buy, have a place ready for them and learn about their care first. (at least the basics). You have received some very good advice from everyone. GOOD LUCK!!!

2 pigs are very easy to raise in your backyard, but I wouldn't choose them as the animal to start with. They are very low in labor, will cost less than the grocery store in feed costs, but they do require some equipment costs. For example, the easiest way to provide them with fresh water is to give them an automatic spigot through a sturdy post attached to a hose that is always on. They can bite and drink from the nipple on demand. No spilled buckets, less mud, and no forgetting. Ditto for a feeder. A self-feeder holds 75 lbs of feed and will last two pigs for 3-6 days at the beginning, and just one day in the last two weeks. For a fence the easist by far is a simple, single electric wire fence. Piglets are smart and learn fast. We start it just five inches off the ground, and raise it as they grow bigger. They check it periodically, but do not challenge it. We move them around, and put them wherever we have brambles, stubborn weeds, barren soil, or compacted bedding hay or straw. Two of them can live the entire 4 1/2 months in an area 14 x 28, but they need shade and protection from weather. They are extremely hard on structures, so we put the electric wire where anything needs protecting. You can throw them all your stale bread, old fruit, and melon rinds. (They are not fond of citrus.) At six months to the day they are ready for butcher. In the Pacific Northwest the going rate for 6-week-old weaner piglets is $65. You will put about 1400 lbs of feed into two of them; at $10/50-lb bag, that's $280. The equipment for the set-up will probably run about $225-275. Our butcher costs are about $175 per pig. You will end up with 190 lbs of meat from each pig. This comes out to about $2.00/lb. Sell one to a friend for $450, and you will be able to cover most of your eqipment costs. Even with equipment costs factored in, your final meat cost is less than $3.00/lb. And it will be some of the best meat you have ever had.

Before I get moving for today (ill come back and read this whole thread soon tho) I also suggest Redworms/ Esinia Fetida.

theyre not foolproof, but you feed them for free (your food scraps) and once you get raising them down, you can use them to add to fodder for poultry.

Ive seen Muscovy, theyre cute! (I want some!) they also have claws so theyre tough. Not indestructable, but ive heaerd its rare to lose one to a weasel. They hiss, but its pretty quiet. best poultry I can think of for a small area!

You cant have swine in some metro areas, check out the regs first! (I know because were outside Nashville, and theyre aginst the regs here) They can host more human parasites (why they tell you to never ear rare pork)

You all are murderers! How can you be so unfeeling about these poor animals that are born only to die? They have feelings and can love like you or me. How can you say that you are taking care of them when you are just raising them to die? Think about it.

Troller , go back to you cave!

I was really enjoying these postings until I got hit upside the head by mmmm 2006. I hope this vegan chokes on her tofu.

It might not even be a vegetarian. I get crap from the teenage stepdaughter about setting a mole trap to catch the varmints destroying the yard and gardens. I'd swear she looks just like the person who feasted with the rest of us on the flesh of a "murdered" cow earlier the same day.

Things that make you go hmmmmmmmm...

I raise ducks for the purpose of keeping slugs at bay and they do that well, are easy to keep, and make us laugh. However, only the egg-laying females are motivated to forage for slugs so if that's you're goal, you need to get female khaki campbells or indian runners that are bred for egg-laying and NOT varieties bred for meat like Pekin on Muscovy. The females of any species will lay eggs in spring but the egg-laying types will continue through late fall. They are starving for protein when they are laying everyday so that's what makes them such good foragers.

Male ducks can be aggressive and a pain in the butt, but having one in the flock seems to help keep everyone happy plus they are a bit more vigilant about watching for predators so I find having one around to be worthwhile.

mmmm 2006, give me your adress, I'll show you just what kind of murderers we are. (by that I mean that I will humanely kill and butcher an animal infront of you, not kill you).

I'm glad that this thread was brought back to the forefront, I found it on a google search (trying to figure out how long to raise muscovy ducks for, and what is the best way to feed them) and it has been interesting, although I think even paying a little more for chicken that you grow yourself is worth it just for environmental reasons. Especially if you are freeranging with good fences.

There's room for all nature's creatures. Right next to the mashed potatoes.

Sorry, I just love that.

I used to have a signature in another forums, it went like this.

"Animals fill that special void in my life,
right between the carrots and potatos,
a gravy deliverance system if you will"

LOL

I love those slogans- "Vegetables are what food eats", "Will hunt for food", "If god didn't want us to eat animals, then why did he make them out of meat?", etc.

:)

I'd love to keep chickens but we have a huge red fox problem. My neighbors coop has been broken into a number of times. They've even tried ripping out the back of my rabbit hutch. I don't raise my bunnies for meat, they are pets but their waste makes great fertilizer. I have them litter box trained so all I have to do is empty their box into the garden and turn it under. The liquid waste is absorbed by a biodegradable recycled newspaper litter that goes in the compost pile. I personally couldn't slaughter my own animals but I most certainly enjoy eating the meat from someone elses. lol

Karyn- cheaper than the newspaper pellets are wood pellets for a pellet stove. Like $6 for 40#. I have litter trained rabbits too- they own my basement and run free down there. Great pets, and very personable if you interact and give 'em some room.

I always laugh when people say they want to get them just for the fertilizer produced (I know that you're not saying that). They don't get the idea that the feed they give them would be just as good, and you skip the responsibility of owning the digestive system :)

Rabbits and then Chickens(Chickens are tougher)

Patti
Garden Girl

I am surprised that in 3 years since this post began no one has mentioned pigeons. They are the perfect homestead animal-- and were the poultry meat of choice until commercial chickens replaced them mid 20th century. A pair of pigeons will raise 2 - 4 squab a month. One squab feeds one person. Here's the amazing part: You should feed them well, but they will also fly, forage and return to feed their young: So it is possible to feed them lightly and they will still thrive on their own resources. Many a village under siege were able to continue to eat meat because their pigeons would fly safely above the battle, find food, and return. The droppings are also great for your garden. Pigeons are hugely under-rated in the united states as a valuable livestock, mostly because 'escaped' pigeons from 20th century abandoned squab farms have become a nuisance in many cities. Healthy pigeons can be purchased sometimes for as little as $2 each. The first generation should not be allowed to fly, until the second generation is established and off the nest or they may fly 'home' to their previous owner. Squab are best eaten when just coming off the nest, however older birds are fine too, just not as tender. They also provide a fascinating hobby if you choose homing or racing pigeons: you can fly them home from great distances. Because they mate for life, and are beautiful on the wing, we are somewhat tender-hearted about eating them. However, we maintain our flock as a small side business for wedding & funeral releases, (they fly home afterwards) and consider them an emergency food source should 'it' ever hit the fan.

Here is a link that might be useful: Full Circle Doves

Are pigeons easier to raise than chickens, are there less potential problems with reering the young?

I am thinking about starting with worms, rabbitts, and maybe pigeons.

I wonder if that is true or not? We've had a couple sniffles but nothing else here except when Haley was very young

Here is a link that might be useful: rainforest animals

Chickens!!! Relatively low maintenance and super productive. Eggs, meat, and soil. We've got a few videos on caring for them, here's one that might help with set-up.