wild blueberries, cultivated elderberries and gooseberries, and wild ferns also raspberries, comfrey, mints; i.e. the invasives.

I have currants there and a few native plums too. The raspberries need the micro-climate near the house to thrive. Once the hedgerow is more mature (and sheltering) I am hoping that they can be moved there. The local climate and water availability will determine what goes into this Zone.

People living in a suburban or urban area may not have the zones as described in the intro to PC link that I posted, though they will have Zone 0. For some zone 1 and 2 will be combined and 3 will be a windbreak/wildlife habitat and zone 4 and 5 will be absent. For others there will be only zone 1 and 2 and even with just that ... a great deal of ones own food and herbs can be produced. In an urban setting with a paved "yard" it is likely to be just zone 1 and all activity will be centered there and in 0. Again, a good bit of ones food can be gown on a terrace or patio. The plants also clean the air and improve how we feel about our living space. There is no place that could not use some Permaculture principles to improve the setting. It could be considered "Practical Geomancy." I wish they would offer more courses in Geomancy at Graduate Levels ... I saw it as a course offered to Architects going for a Masters in City Planning. Urban usability has been diminished greatly in this century, partly due to the emergence of the automobile as the preferred means of transport ... but that is another subject.

Fireraven9
"The field's set. Let's croq." Alas 4/28/01

my zone three is the habitat come wind breaks, in other words the bush not enough of it still got heaps of room for lots more tree, in time.

mail len

lens garden page

I wish our windbreak was bigger too. The west is all woods and the wind does not get bad from that direction. When it is from the south it can be difficult. We are interplanting some Lombardy Poplar in the south hedgerow and we will remove it in about 15 years when the other trees are much taller. They are a fast growing tree and I guess they have some uses. I would never have guessed that I would want to plant them.

Fireraven9
"The field's set. Let's croq." Alas 4/28/01

We have absolutely no windbreak and are in bad need of one. Unfortunately, our planting area for this purpose is rather limited on the west side (where ALL of our wind comes from). These winds can get strong and have knocked over patio furniture (broke our glass-top table this year) and must be delt with.

I would like to plant some type of canopied fruiting tree next to our patio that would provide yummies and shade. I'm not quite sure what other trees I would like to plant here to deal with the wind.

Any ideas?

Kat

Here's the area I'm talking about:

Windbreak Area

See below for a list of Sustainable shrubs and bushes from Rhode Island University ( http://www.uri.edu/research/sustland/spl1.html ) I think. That climate is not so different from yours. Also a place to check out the native plants ... http://www.shootingstarnursery.com/woodies.html and a Forestry link ... http://www.webcom.com/duane/duanefor.html

Is the photo facing west? You might want to put bushy lower growing native shrubs on the fence and the next row could be a couple of fruit trees (not too many) for shade. If you grow other small trees, shrubs, or shrub roses on the far side of the fence you will make the wind break even better. It looks as if the typical "landscape plan" is all lawn. Are there restrictions on what you can plant?

Fireraven9
"The field's set. Let's croq." Alas 4/28/01

Here is a link that might be useful: http://www.uri.edu/research/sustland/spl1.html

Sorry, I should have been more clear on what direction is what in the picture. This picture is actually facing south. The winds come sweeping over and through the fence on the right and go right across our yard.

And yes, the landscape plan is basically lawn at this juncture. The house is a new construction and the soil is lousy. We did create a cottage/veggie garden on the east side of the lawn last weekend.

There are only a few restrictions that I'm aware of relative to landscaping. The only one that I'm aware of as it relates to plants is that we cannot use a "privacy hedge." I imagine that to be something thick, formal, and tall. I think so long as we do a combination of shrubs and trees, we should be okay.

Thanks for the link!

Kat

The picture faces south and the fence on the right would be the west then. The same things would apply, but everything would have to be on the inside of the fence. The shrub and tree planting will help with the wind. To make it NOT look like a privacy hedge I would suggest several groups of 3 tall shrubs (planted in a triangle) that flower and produce ornamental/edible fruits along the fence. These groups should be different so it is obviously not a "hedge" and some (of the triangles) planted with the point toward the fence and some planted with the point away from the fence. A random grouping of 4 or 5 shrubs in there is good also. Plant small trees inside that windbreak for shade. This still *might* look like a privacy hedge to people who have nothing better to do than look for problems.

Another way to do it is to plant shrubs that are clearly "ornamental" (like viburnum or species roses - edible hips and good bee plant) with a row of staggered dwarf fruit trees just inside the ornamental row. Beyond that a couple full sized fruit trees for shade and you would have a nice setup.

Fireraven9
"The field's set. Let's croq." Alas 4/28/01

I like the idea of shrubs with flowering ornamentals/edible fruit (for us and the birdies!). That sounds wonderful! Thanks for the suggestions!

So from the fence, would it be a variety of tall shrubs, small shrubs, small trees, fruit trees? Or would it be small trees, tall shrubs, small shrubs, fruit trees - all stagered in triangles (except the fruit trees)?

Sorry, I don't have a lot of landscaping know-how and want to do this right. I definately need to research tree/shrub maturity heights.

Kat

A mix of smaller and larger shrubs next to the fence on groups of 3, 4 and 5 (makes it more natural looking than just one of many kinds) in a random looking pattern. On the inside of that would be the small fruit trees and where the lower shrubs are planted by the fence you would put the fruit tree due east of them.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ = fence

... X.... X ....o....o....V....V....a....D....D....D....r.....G.....G.........= shrubs

.......X......o....o.....o....V....a....a.....D....D...r.....r......G............= shrubs

...................tree................tree...................tree.....................=dwarf/semidwarf fruit

The Capital letters are larger shrubs, the small letters are smaller shrubs, the dwarf or semi dwarf trees are lined up to catch the wind the shorter shrubs are placed. People can see through a bit so it is not a privacy hedge ... just an orchard and fruiting shrubs. Be sure to leave a bit of room between each shrub and the fence so the shrub does not push on the fence when it grows. Plan spaces between shrubs so that they will nearly touch each other when mature.

Fireraven9
"The field's set. Let's croq." Alas 4/28/01

Okay, this thread is going to my Canon printer! Gotta show my husband your "diagram!"

Thanks, Fireraven!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

My concern for you is all that green suburban lawn I see--do your neighbors (or do you) use lawn services, DIY weed-and-feed products, etc.? I see nary a broadleafed weed in sight on that pristine green. If so, I would be careful before planting and harvesting edible crops from your garden-cut-from-turf. More chemicals from fertilizers, fungicides, herbicides, pesticides, etc. could be contained in your harvest than in one from a cleaner environment.

Ginger

Ginger,
Very keen eye. Yes, we have a little service guy come out every couple of months (or, rather, DH does). I'm currently addressing this issue with him and have been expounding the virtues of an organically maintained lawn (environment, kids, pets, food). I've given him a few gentle nudges in the direction of certain GW forums, alas, to no avail.

We currently have no edibles growing, nor will we until this matter is resolved. Not to worry, I'm building my case.

Kat

Zone 3 doesn't exist on my property, because it's so small. It goes straight from 2, fruits and lawn, to 4, native plantings.