I was looking at solar stuff on the web and I am not sure it would be useful that far north. In summer you would have plenty of power and in winter when you need it most there would be little. I have seen things about wind power being used with good results since the wind blows nicely in winter too.

http://www.renewables.ca/ and link below ...

Lee AKA Fireraven9
Great woods, you frighten me like cathedrals;
You howl like an organ; and our hearts of misery,
Rooms of eternal mourning where quiver ancient rattles,
Answer the echoes of your from the depths I've come to Thee.
- Charles Baudelaire, Obsession

Here is a link that might be useful: IPPSO

just a thought have you considered wind generation this could be an option if you are near the coast? here in aus' wind generation is cheaper than solar.

len

Gumboot;

Check with the folks in the Maine solar house.

I know they're still a bit south of you, but they've really got their act together.

Cheers.
--Jim

Here is a link that might be useful: Maine Solar House

Thanks for trying to help me......I had my property checked out for wind-power but it's not a good spot.

If wind power will not work in your area you might do well to do solar even with the limitations. Battery technology is improving and I would expect to see big advances in the next 10 years or so. It might be good to have it just for security. I am sure there will be more problems like California experienced a few years ago and not confined to places that are densely populated. We hope to put in solar once the house is built. A good deal of the heat in the house will be passive solar and I hope the majority of the electric will be also.

Lee AKA Fireraven9
In the comforting shock of this monotone drum,
Someone hastily nails a coffin somewhere.
For whom?Yesterday was summer; here is autumn!
This mysterious noise seems the sound of departure.
- Charles Baudelaire, Song of Autumn

People that don't have the faintest idea what they're talking about are quick to give their opinions. Ignore them.

Canada probably has some kind of meteorological data for the number of hours of sun you are likely to get, month by month. You should be able to convert that info into something you can use.

Talk to as many solar power people/companies that you can. What's the general consensus?

Besides, suppose it's only useful 8 months out of 12... would that be useful to you?

It can get dark at 4pm in the winter up north here and I want some light to read by and a radio.
I want solar back up a) when we have power outs due to winter winds etc.
and b) because in the next ten years and more, I have no idea what I am facing as far as the economy goes in Canada amd whether I will even be able to pay my hydro bills.

The months that I want solar back up ....are the months that we don't get much sun up here in this island rain-forest.

When you said that yours was not a good location for wind generators, was that just a yearly average or were all the seasons considered? If you have nasty winter winds it might be possible to do wind power in winter and solar in your long daylight summers. It would be more expensive of course, but may be worth the effort. Have you checked with the *local* experts to find out what sustainable systems and power storage or combination of systems would work for you?

A few notes ... tracking solar panels are much more efficient (and expensive and tricky to repair) than stationary panels because they take advantage of the whole arc that the sun makes across the sky. That is helpful when the days are so short, but it would be good to have a local expert do an analysis for you to see if it is worth the effort. It may be moot if every other day is cloudy in your area. Solar homes here in the "land of sun" just go with stationary panels and I have not seen a tracking set up used in years. Part of the "art" of using solar power is timing your use of power. My friend in town is totally solar and she has to do laundry in the day when no other power is being used. Each chore is timed so that there will not be too much draw on the system. By night time the chores are done and there is power left for running a few lightbulbs. They are not connected to the "grid" at all and have had to learn how to time the chores and failure to do so means no power left. The couple up the road have a combination system. They can get power from the electric company, but they produce much of their own power. It is expensive to have a dual system (In the US anyway) because one must have a special (expensive) tie in unit that allows power to be sold back to the company when the home solar unit is producing more than is needed. It is a pain and the power company always comes out ahead. As they add more panels they will get to the point that they will be able to get off the "grid" and run on their own power. Night time power use will be limited, but it is not so bad really and way better than oil lamps. All alternative power sources have limitations. There is always some time when the wind is not blowing, the sun is not shining, the stream (water power) flow is low or whatever.

Lee AKA Fireraven9
"Goddess Bless us, every one!" (my friend Marky)

Great advice, Lee. How I wish I could employ wind and water to even out the power production!

I will be putting in a grid intertie system in my new house and it is much less expensive than going offgrid. The meters have been standardized here in Hawaii to allow home power production. I had to buy a new meter anyway. The only extra expense over a battery based system is the outdoor cutoff switch (added protection for power company workers) and that should be very cheap. I also believe that I get paid back at a differential rate based on the time of day (but I need to check that--I might be thinking of CA where I used to live).

When the utility fails, I also must shut down. I will be getting an additional panel to keep on the ground. I will run a fountain or some kind of water feature with it. In an outage, I will use that spare panel to charge a portable power supply source or run my coolatron or laptop.

I will be the first on my block to put up a pv array and solar water heater. I can't believe no one else has done it yet with the cost of electicity here (17.5 cents/kwh) and lack of natural gas service. I hope I inspire my neighbors.

Gumbootmama: Do you get any $ incentives for alternative energy? We get tax rebates. To maximize my benefit, I can only spend up to $5000 each year. This year I am buying my inverter, the mounting structure and just 4 panels. I have to wait until next year to buy more panels.

Thanks for all for your posts! I really enjoy them.

Mahalo and Aloha,
Tim

Hi thanks for your thoughts. I had my own piece of property checked out by someone for windpower......I saw something on a sail boat that was quiet that I loved and wasn't too expensive....but my spot was not good.
I hadn't heard of incentive money......I'll look into that thanks.
It is mild but cloudy alot here in the winter. I have already wired my new house for solar back up and I'm going thru with it now and I hope I can get a few lights and a radio, etc. out of it despite what everyone says.
If not, I'll learn how to render seal blubber down for lamps, I guess, which is what I may have to do in the end anyway...........

Do you have access to running water that does not freeze? That is something that is not utilized greatly these days.

Lee AKA Fireraven9
"But--But maybe he's only a little crazy like painters or composers or. . .or some of those men in Washington." Miracle on 34th Street

Well, the ocean, with a terrific tide, is a block away from my property.

Hmmm, not sure I have seen any power systems that use the oceans energy. It might be a good thing to research for commercial energy. Not quite in our sphere of action, I suppose.

Lee AKA Fireraven9
And I think of you now as a dream that I had long ago
In a kingdom lost in time.
And in the forests of evening the archer is bending a bow,
And I see you bring him bread and wine. - Al Stewart

I'm basically at the same lattitude, but it's sunny
here in the winter. I looked into it and came
to the conclusion that I could not generate enough
power in mid winter to be useful.

1. At solstice, at lat 54 we get about 7 hours of
sunlight a day.

2. The sun only gets about 12 degrees above the horizon. These two effects mean that I get the equivalent of about 2 hours normal intensity sunlight
per day.

Options:
Resign yourself to the fact that you are not going to
get much power.
A. Use white diodes for lighting. A 1 watt white diode
light is an acceptable reading light.
B. For midwinter months use propane light. Basically
they are like coleman lamps, but run on propane. A
hundred pound cylinder will run a lamp for a LOT of hours. The interest on solar panels may pay for all your propane use.

For total self-sufficiency I think not practical.

I'd be delighted to be proved wrong though.

Get a few photovoltaic panels that will provide your basic needs...a light for reading/working, a light over cooking area, an emergency shortwave (can be entertainment, as well)...
If your batteries drain in the winter, go to some sunnier, warm climate and volunteer your services. Nicaragua, Guatemala, Honduras could all use your help.

Hello Gumbootmama,

I can't believe this thread has gone on for 2 years. I'm curious to know if your system is working for you. I have a few words of encouragement, even if its 2 years late. It sounds like you will be hooked to the grid anyway so the demands on your 12v system won't be constant. I would totally put it in. The cool thing about a 12v system is you can recharge the batteries from many sources. Solar panels of course. And to be realistic you won't get much recharge on grey winter days, but with most modern solar panels you will get some, and if you're only using the power in emergencies the battery will stay topped up, ready for use. Lights and radios don't take very much power at all and when the power goes down, as I'm sure it does up there, battery backup would be great.

You could charge your battery from the grid in the winter if you were using it only for emergencies as well.

I find it hard to believe you couldn't get power from a small wind turbine, being only a few blocks from the ocean. Especially in Winter. The only concern there is cost and trees. They typically cost over a couple thousand to install, and you usually have to get them higher than the tallest trees. In your neck of the woods that could be over 200 feet.

On more of a theoretical note. You may not have sunshine in the winter, but you do have a huge amount of sun energy stored in wood. There is a way to charge your batteries with wood. You use a wood gas generator to power a conventional gas generator. Its not technology that is used very much nowadays. But its old technology. Half the cars in parts of Europe were run on wood gas generators during the second world war. Its even more appropriate technology for remote power generation, because generators typically run at a constant speed. The chemistry behind it is actually pretty simple, but I'll save our readership from that. If anybody is really curious email me.

Another option would be to grow a sugar or starch crop and ferment it and distil it for Ethanol and then run your generator off of that. Corn and sugarbeets might work. I think Jerusalem artichoke might be an option as well. You get 1l of ethanol for every 12kg of artichokes. 2000 sq. ft. should give you about 100 litres of fuel. Enough for the winter? You could ferment and distil in small batches in a greenhouse and the extra CO2 and heat would be a real boost to the plants in the fall. This is what we plan on doing at our place.

You could of course just run your gas generator on gas. It would only cost you $100 and save you from growing 1200kg of artichokes. Having the 12v is great though, because you only have to run the generator to charge your batteries, not everytime you want power.

Water pumping and refrigeration are the big uses of power. Lights and radios use way less so wouldn't be much of a power draw.

One more idea. If you only want power for light and radio, and only in emergencies, you could just use rechargable AA NiMh batteries. They are way less toxic to dispose of then their NiCad predicesors. You can order them over the net at about $2 each or less, and a decent charger will cost you less than $50 with shipping. They can be charged up to 1000 times. You could have 10 or 20 fully charged batteries stashed away. Enough for any winter storm. You can even plug them into your car or 12v system to recharge them, or hook them up to a small 3v solar panel. Search for Nexcell on the net.

Good luck up there, Sleepybee

Solar setup does not have to be expensive - check this simple solar power setup.

Radio and a light that runs on you

They are working on turbines and various other power collection means to take advantage of the tides, wind power and solar power can be unpredictable but the tides are as regular as ... well ... the tide. If you are super handy you could even make a little turbine yourself.