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lakedallasmary

pemaculturing my yard, where do I start?

lakedallasmary
17 years ago

I have read most of gaia's garden, and still have no clue where to start. Maybe the answer is on the last page!

I am sort of confused.

I have a veggie garden I started this year. I never really seriously did that before, if you don't count tossing a few jack-o-lantern seeds in the wildflower patch and hoped they grew! We have moved a lot so never much of a chance to landscape before. We have been here 5 years, so I guess it might be safe to start.

A part of the veggie garden has yellow plants due to it being closest to the windy part of the yard. I have my garden on the south east side of the house were it gets sun after 2 pm. Quite a hot year so the garden did struggle. May days were 105+. The wind blows from the west. Also I may need a swale. Ug I know I need one but how to go about it. The land slopes down from the west to the east and that area of the yard is so dry. Water does not hang around. I need to post a picture, but we just got a new scanner, and no clue how this one works yet. It roll down to the area I have the cannas. The veggie garden does not benefit from the run off. The garden bed also slopes down toward this water path. Ug!. I thought if I mulched all around the outside of the garden beds more water would hang around. Still I think I need a swale. here is a bad picture I already had scanned of the back of my house the garden is around the corner to the right, up against the house to take advantage of the shade. It goes out 10 feet and is about 27 feet long. I know he photo is bad but see the cloud on the right, under that is the small tree. Between the tree and the house the wind comes and also the water flows to the corner of the yard, toward that house in the distance. Where to put the swale?? I thought to put it from the tree to the edge of the garden bed right across the water flow path. Do I make the swale surround the whole garden? I need a better picture.

Anyway, last year I sprinkled a few native wild flower seeds. Some came up others did not. It was quite dry last fall and this spring. I have tried 2 times to plant shade tolerant flowers in this very shady area, still no luck. I should have taken my clue from the fact no weeds grew there either! I think I will mulch it over and forget that area.

I will be planting sunflowers to block the wind a bit from the west wind next year. I am sure a tree would work better, but money is an issue. I will also scatter sunflowers about on the south side, to lessen that exposure a bit. I have an area bricked off touching the garden bed, to plant wildflowers to attract beneficials, and just cause I like flowers. No clue on garden design for the bed yet. Maybe I will grab a hand full of seeds from many of my flowers packets and close my eyes and toss. I am at that point now. Confused!

We had a tall hedge of photinias cut down this spring. Now, I do not see many birds in the yard or at my feeder. I am home bound due to chemical sensitivities, so it is one less this that can entertain me. That hedgerow, provided a lot of cover and lots of bugs for them. It was even evergreen. I hated to cut them down, but they were ugly, and made the area behind it barren, with just dirt due to shade. I wanted to ask the tree company for the mulch from that, but I was too shy to ask. They later said I should have. Oh, well. I have called them to ask them to deliver a load of mulch next time they are in the area. I am not sure how long it will take to get all that out of the drive way. I may need to share. If you live in Lake Dallas Texas, I will have mulch to share soon.

I have red cannas planted in a soggy part of the yard. (by that house in the picture) I did not buy them, they came with the yard. They were in the shade and were not doing well. I looked them up and found out they like sun. But to be fair to the previous owner, the trees are a lot bigger now, casting more shade.

I have also scattered more wild flower seeds in the front flower beds, and near some trees around the property. I moved the daffodils to a sunnier spot. They were in that same shady spot.

I wanted to plant some corral berry in that shady spot, I must admit that shady spot has me thinking nothing will grow there. The shady spot is by those tree you see to the right. The window to the right is the one I use to watch the birds, now I only see one (bird) here and there. It is in the kitchen at my dining spot.

I want to attract birds cause I like to watch them and for all the good things they do. eat bugs, and plant free seeds. This year they (the birds) planted 2 tomato plants in the front flower bed. Not my plan for that area, but they did great, producing cherry tomatoes all summer. Where the ones in my garden did not produce after June. They did well since there is shade most of the day there. But sadly, I had to chop them down as they took over the entry walkway! I would have just trimmed them but cherry tomatoes are not big hits in this family. If they could have planed something we liked better, perhaps a papaya tree. Too bad I do not have to much of that exposure, or I could get my whole veggie garden planted there.

We will be planting a burr oak in the front to replace the cotton wood we had chopped down. We need to decrease the huge electric bill.

Like I said, beyond those things, I have no clue. Maybe I should not bite off too much at one time.

Oh, I forgot to mention the herbs I am planting under the bird feeder. It is a cute area, I have next to a porch beam (right side of photo, it cuts the small tree in half), with mulch, rocks and a bird water dish (pot drainage saucer) I have no clue where the herbs will do best so, I thought I might plant some in the landscape as well under the trees. Not sure how to place them so they will look nice. This is all so new to me.

Next year I plant to attempt to plant squash in the weep line of a large silver maple. There is more shade through out the day there. We shall see. My post is so non specific, I doubt anyone will answer.

If anyone could post some of your permaculture guilds that would help me a lot.

I am thinking of getting a book on edible landscape, or planting for wildlife, that might be easier to understand.

I know bugs are only attracts to sick plants, or stressed plants like those not getting enough water, sun, or too much sun. But it is beyond me why squash get borers. I know it is not a pesticide deficiency. All my squash get borers. Is it not enough humus, too much sun, heat, lack of water, lack of minerals, or just planting out of their comfort zone. I don't like reading cut a hole in the stem and kill to worm as a solution. I want to know what sort of distress the plant is in, to send up the frequency to the borers, please come lay your eggs here. I have stared this book called 'tune into nature'. It talks about plants sending out radio frequencies to bugs that they are ill, and please eat me. Interesting. I wish we were more in tune to what plants are trying to tell us. They say squash borers are not a problem west of the Rockies. I wonder why. I looked at a topographic map of the whole country. What I saw was higher elevations out west. With mountains you get rocky soil and more minerals. Possibly lots of other things I am not thinking of. I have never lived out west. I bought some azomite and sprinkled it around the squash. They already had borers though, so next year I will put it out at seed planting time or before and report if this cure the borer problem. I am also trying to buy seeds from veggies that are more drought tolerant now. Maybe going with moschatas would be best. I hate butternuts, do they all taste like that. I love butter cups.

I am not sure were the question is in this post is. I guess just a better sense of what the heck am I doing, and is what I am doing accomplishing what I hope to accomplish. (what ever that is) maybe I am just trying to keep busy unil I get over this illness.

I want to plant food bearing trees, but after reading the extension service web site not a lot is suited to north Texas. (that I like) I like figs and they sound promising. And a few varieties of apple will work here since they have low chill hour requirements. Might try granny smith and pink lady since they say two varieties are needed for pollination. Not sure why? Dirt doctor says apricot will not produce every year or even every other year here due to spring frosts killing the blossoms. I have read peaches are hard to do here. I want to try papaya, but they do not like frost. I might like to try grapes but, they seem like a northern thing to me. I do not even know what a jujube is. From the Texas extension site below, prunes do not look promising either. Seems pears would have similar chill requirements to apples, so might pose a problem. Pecans do not look like a good choice as we do not have deep soil, mostly dry stuff. Not sure what a persimmon is? Pistachio, chestnut and loquats are not suited to here. Berries seem to like acid soil. I have seen someone eat a pomegranate once, does not look like fun. I hate walnuts, plus it hampers growth of everything else. Don't like cherries and they don't do well here anyway. Gooseberries, kiwi, macadamia, and currents do not like it here.

So what am I left with: figs, apples and grapes. And possibly a container grown papaya.

I like the following

apples,bartlet pears, not hard pears, apricots, prunes, not plumes so much, figs, strawberries, peaches, red seedless grapes, kiwi, pineapple and papaya

If anyone knows of some uncommon fruit plants, please let me know. I know I ran across a web site that claimed to offer permaculture plants, but I don't remember what it was. The plants have to be able to take 110 degrees, 10 degrees, drought, and wind. sometimes we get most of our rain in one day it seems. See the problem. Hopefully I can dampen down the climate extremes a bit over the years, but for now that is what I have to deal with. I think maybe fruit trees have to wait. That is unfortunate, since it takes a while for fruit trees to produce.

Another concern I have is shading off the veggie garden too much!

Anyway, enough for now.

Help in anyway you can please. I just wish someone could come over here look at my property, hold my hand and tell me what to do! OK, what fun would that be. Things are looking a bit better around here so all is not bad.

I guess if all else fails, add more mulch!

Mary

Here is a link that might be useful: fruit gardening in texas

Comments (6)

  • luisa
    17 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Mary,

    I probably can't offer you much advice, your situation sounds much more extreme than mine. Your temps don't mean much to me but we get to 40+ C (105+ F) here in summer and zero in winter but not so windy I think!!

    There's a couple of suggestions I would make.

    We've recently tried container gardening, specifically those small children's wading pools. If you Web search for 'wading pool gardens' you'll find several USA sites which are really inspiring. You can also use other things for containers, eg. at last I have a use for stock feed bags! They can be filled and used as containers.

    We have a meatworks near us so we are now getting aged cow manure delivered ($60 for 3 cubic metres). I don't know what your $$ situation is but it looks to me (from our first attempt) like cow manure is awesome for growing veggies in!! If you can access cow manure and put it in containers you'll be growing vegies really quick.

    Another thing I'm thinking of - stock feed bags, filled with cow manure, and planted with fruit trees!! Use your household waste water (kitchen, bathroom and laundry tubs) to water them even if it means bucketing it out.

    House waste water can be used to water veggies but NOT if the water will be splashing on the bits you eat. So use treated water or roof water for them.

    Can you afford shadecloth? Can you get scraps or secondhand shadecloth anywhere? It is often cheap secondhand, keep your eyes open. Attach it vertically across where the wind blows to cut down wind speed and stop the ground drying out. Attach it horizontally across the areas where you want shade.

    Use the shady area under the tree to plant maybe vines - pumpkin, squash etc. - in containers, they will grow out to the Sun but their roots will be shaded. They can be watered with household waste water.

    Swales need to be across the flow of water. Not all around the garden. Maybe 2 or 3 tiers of swales would be better? Use hay bales if you can get them, they will not only slow the water but also cast shade (I think, if I'm reading your description right).

    Hope you can use these suggestions.

    Luisa

  • javamilk
    17 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Mary:
    Would you be able to do up a drawing of your property, maybe on grid paper? You've got so much stuff going on that I can't quite visualize it. Your picture also looks like there's some construction going on - is that going to affect any gardening space?

    The idea of permaculture, if I understand it correctly, is to use small spaces for lots of stuff. Have you read about the "zones" yet? Also, have you hit Path to Freedom's website? They're in California, but have taken the permaculture principle to new levels.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Path to Freedom

  • jekyll
    17 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Something I did a few years ago that really helped me was do an approximate scale drawing of the largely permanent features of my garden on a big piece of paper, then take lots of small pieces of paper for all the things I wanted in the garden. I spent hours on the floor coming up with all the possible arrangements and thinking through the possible advantages and disadvantages of having different things in different locations, before I decided what to do.

    In the end I was fairly pleased with my choices, but then I had to leave the garden after only 18 months. Over the next few years my tenants had some good crops from my plantings, but I eventually realised I would never move back to that town and sold the place. Now I'm starting again - with a junkheap for a backyard. But that's a tangent.

    You can use this process to clarify your thinking about the site conditions on different parts of your property, as well as the requirements of particular plants or other things you want to put in your garden. One thing I learned from permaculture is that some careful observation and thinking early on will save a lot of time and energy later. Of course this must be balanced with experimentation. Sometimes you don't know what will and won't work until you try it.

    As far as fruit goes - if the extension service suggests that persimmon and pomegranate are possible - don't dimiss them. They are both lovely fruit. I prefer the non-astringent varieties of persimmon. Eating a pomegranate is a slow process, but wonderful - it's like eating jewels (only tastier). Perfect for relaxing when you need a break.

  • thriftstorejewelry
    17 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    It sounds to me that you are spreading your time and resources too thin. I recommend starting small and modestly - focusing on a small amount of land in zone 1. I recently read Gaia's Garden as well and I am bursting with ideas - most of which will certianly not be realized in one growing season. I am only intensively growing on 3 of the 7 beds I created in my mandala garden. The remaining beds I am covercropping and mulching to build my soil for later use. Good luck!

  • lakedallasmary
    Original Author
    17 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Yes you are correct, I was thinking about the whole yard at once, and this is just too much for my little mind to figure out.

    I have finished the book and the answer is not on the last page!

    I do think permaculture is more for bigger properties, than suburban lots. I do not have a zone 5, or a zone 3 or 4 for that matter. I guess I have a zone 1 near the house and everything else a zone 2. I figure if I won't want to drag the hose out that far, best to have a plant that can take care of itself. I have the veggie garden next to the house near the back door.

    I am also concentrating on my rain garden and keeping the trees in wood mulch. They look so much better since I mulched them up last summer. I think it is best for now to keep what I have healthy than to add a lot more plants that I can't keep healthy do to lack of time, water or mulch.

    I also took jekyll's advice and cut out to scale pieces of paper for future trees and shrubs. I also cut out future sizes of existing trees. This helps a lot in visualizing where trees are actually needed. I don't need as many new trees as I thought. Once the current ones fill out, I am pretty much all set. I do need shrubs though for wildlife perches and to shade off the tree trunks in hot Texas. I am going to in the future, get a few dwarf fruit trees for fun. I have selected apple, persimmon and fig. I may do annual papaya. It is too cold and wet in out falls and springs to bring them though winter. But I am not thinking about that now. I want to shrub up the current trees first and deck out my rain garden. The only thing in there now are some red cannas, and some Texas dandelions that I sowed last fall. The black eyed susan, the texas star hibiscus and the rain lilly seed that I planted last fall, did not come up.

    I will be receiving some rain lilly bulbs soon on a trade, to put on the not so wet edge of the rain garden. I will be putting basil and borage on the edge too. Come fall I will stick beets, rutabaga, and carrots on the edge of the edge. I have also planted cardinal climber on the hill coming up from the rain garden. They have not come up, so I may have to replant. I read to plant morning glories in winter so the seeds can crack and they will sprout. Maybe the cold weather that we have had lately have told them to not sprout yet. I think 1 or two are up though. I also have some blue eyed grass seed I think might work in there. Maybe I should wait to fall to plant them. I also would love to try some iris in there and then that is about all I have room for. This rain garden is a work in progress. It is mostly a canna garden now.

    The daffodils did even worse were I moved them too. Maybe texas is not the spot for daffodils.

  • paradisi
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    first up decide for yourself how far into permaculture you want to get - the whole hog ie grow just about everything you and your family can eat or the more realistic - grow whatever you can to supplement yout familys needs.

    We've converted about 250 square metres into a pretty much second choice permaculture plot - There's no way I would contemplate having to feed us full time, unless the world ends it's not something I even like thinking about.

    But we do grow some fruit (30 odd trees) and some vegies - whatever the Queensland fruitfly, grasshopers and tomato moth let us grow. It's nice to be able to walk around the garden and pick a meal.

    We started by getting four large round bales of sugar cane mulch (cheapest available) and covered all of the grass except a path to the washing line about 60-100cm deep. We planted the first crops of vegies into a handful of dirt straight into the mulch.

    Anything we didn't use was composted and the compost heap used to create a mound for the next fruit tree or vegie patch.

    About 15-20 years ago I developed a fuller version of a permaculture garden and it took nearly five years of fairly constant work to get it into shape and producing most of what I used.

    This second version of permaculturing s you go is much easier on the back and the wallet.

    Take all the advice everyone gives you, sit down and have a think if it's relevant to what you want.

    As for plants and planting - stick them in, if they want to grow they will. If you feed and water them they will usually repay the kindness is fruit or vegies or equally as important - flowers - because permaculture isn't just about feeding you it's there to feed your soul too.

    And too be frightened to try something that isn't supposed to grow in your climate - I've grown monsteria deliciousa outside in Canberra - -8 to +38 celcius - it was well protected by a large water tank and I only grew ot to prove that I could.

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