Shop Products
Houzz Logo Print
greenthumb_gw

Systemic alternative to Imidacloprid???

Greenthumb
12 years ago

I have used Marathon (active ingredient is Imidacloprid) for years indoors and one of the problems is that the instructions for dosage for indoor use, 1 tsp per 6" pot, is not strong enough to actually kill the adult mealy bugs. It will kill the young mealies, for a while, but the adults don't die unless I spray them with a 50/50 mix of 70% rubbing alcohol and water with a squirt of Ivory dish soap added.

I didn't discover that the dosage was not strong enough until fairly recently, when after treating a plant with Marathon, and spraying with alcohol soap and water, the mealies returned. I now have mealies that are not affected by Imidacloprid at all - no matter how strong I dose the plant. When I first started to use Marathon, I had to treat a plant just once a year to keep the plant mealie free for that long. I've also allowed plenty of time for the plant to take up the systemic insecticide.

Does anyone know of an alternative/alternate (word usage?) systemic product that does not contain Imidacloprid? I have searched and it seems that Imidacloprid is the only systemic insecticide you can now buy.

I have had to toss my hoya collection due to the mealies.

The mealies are laying egg masses everywhere! I've found the egg masses on my hardwood floor, on the edge of the rug in my living room, under the edges of the table the hoyas were sitting on, under the pot edges, under the pot, under the plant saucer, well, you get the idea. It's no wonder mealies are so hard to get rid of! They lay egg masses far away from the plants so if something happens to the mealies on the plant, the colony can return.

I did take cuttings of the hoyas and will restart them and to help protect the young plants, I am going to put a strip of petroleum jelly around the outside of the plant saucer before I put the plant back on the table. I am hoping mealies cannot navigate across petroleum jelly! Someone once told me that there is a flying stage in a mealy bug's life cycle and that would account for mealy bugs being able to move so far away from where I originally found them in the house.

Eventually, all of the eggs in the egg cases should hatch out so I can finally get rid of the mealies for good.

Does anyone know of another systemic available that does not contain Imidacloprid?

Thanks in advance.

gt

(I did spray the hoya cuttings with the alcohol/soap/water mixture and then sprayed the cuttings with the sprayer at my kitchen sink, and I used VERY hot water to make sure that everything that wasn't plant, on the plant, was dislodged).

Comments (13)

  • Kimmsr
    12 years ago

    Imidacloprid use, especially with houseplants is greatly discouraged because of toxicity concerns, and that many of the target insects are developing immumitites to it, it is simply no longer very effective.
    Neem oil sprays seem to be about the most effectgive means of control today.

    Here is a link that might be useful: houseplant mealy bug control

  • ronalawn82
    12 years ago

    greenthumb, your narrative is a classic platform for IPM (Integrated Pest Management) for which there is a special forum.
    Consider the following.

    1. Reduce the existing population. This is achieved by dabbing the individual insects with alcohol, wiping/washing the plant parts affected or pruning away the badly affected parts.(in ascending order of seriousness)
    2. Prevent reinfestation. Seek and destroy the pest from other harborage. You have identified these areas. It is sometimes possible to isolate the plant(s).
    3. Repeat steps 1&2 at least weekly.
      I do not recommend the use of chemicals indoors because
      There is no safe chemical; only safe ways of using chemicals.
      Every drug has side effects.
      Is the program easy? I am not promising you that.
      It is very interesting; that is my assurance.
  • strobiculate
    12 years ago

    If chemicals scare you, don't read what I have to say.

    Because the chemical called neem oil scares me. Okay, it really doesn't, but potential sterility sounds like a rather serious side effect.

    To answer the question, labels exist for acephate and permethrin used as systemics. If you are to the point that you are throwing out plants, I'm willing to bet you are willing to try most anything. There are significant potential side effects to both. There is also a label for dinotefuran, which is in the same class as imidacloprid, with the same mode of action, so the potential for resistance is quite real. If you are going to continue to rely upon systemics for control, follow one of the cardinal rules for control: rotation. Rotate mode of action, rotate class of chemical.

    The first thing that crossed my mind was that it may be time to try a dormant oil. Second thing was a really big tub and total immersion therapy. Not sure how hoya respond to dormant oil.

    In my experience, which is valid only for me, the plants I grow and the conditions under which I have tried it, alcohol works as an attractor for mealybugs. I will admit, I gave up using it after about eighteen months. I really should have given it a thorough testing. My alternative, which again, is only applicable to my situation, was cryptolaemus. Not sure I'd use it in a house.

  • ronalawn82
    12 years ago

    greenthumb, I did not mean to scare anyone. I always advise great caution for the two reasons I emphasized. The modern structure is almost hermetically sealed. In the home, there are enough "pollutants" in the form of VOC's and the like. We do not need to add to that load by applying chemicals to indoor plants.
    And I will repeat:
    There is no safe chemical; only safe ways of using chemicals.
    Every drug has side effects.Color>

  • Greenthumb
    Original Author
    12 years ago

    Thanks, all!

    For now, I will just have to wait until the weather gets warmer out and then EVERYTHING will go outside to be sprayed with Malathion or some other nasty thing. I have to try to get rid of these bugs. Once the bugs are gone, I will never bring a new plant into my home again! (probably easier said than done)!

  • ronalawn82
    12 years ago

    greenthumb, aw, come on. Have you never heard them say, "Never say 'Never!'?
    In this case, there is no need to. Treat your home as a country; and plant yourself as the "Customs & Plant Quarantine Department" at each port of entry. You catch my drift?
    Inspect each plant, (even the one that you put outside to catch a change of air) for any sign of infestation or infection. A quarantine station can be made by draping a garbage bag over a tomato cage. Treat the plant and place it under this cover for a day or two and run a final inspection before you bring it into the house.
    And malathion is not a nasty thing. "DDT" (banned) and "Lindane" (still in use?) were active ingredients in treatments for lice and scabies on human beings.
    "The danger is in the dose."

  • Kimmsr
    12 years ago

    Malathion, while rated as having low toxicity to humans, has had varying results in research. Some researchers have found no great harm done while others have seen indications there may be. Malathion is a broad spectrum poison that should be used and handled with great care.
    Any product that kills insects, including Neem products, could potentially do harm to us, so due care in using any of them is well warranted. People in India have been using the various products from the tree they get Neem oil from for centuries, using the bark for tooth brushes for example, with no adverse affects.

  • ronalawn82
    12 years ago

    greenthumb, I did not mean to insinuate that 'malathion' is safe. It is a chemical and - "There is no safe chemical....."
    The main point is that the Dose determines whether or not 'Malathion' (or any chemical) is safe in a particular application.
    And, to illustrate the point, I mentioned the use of DDT1944, and Lindane ; both chlorinated hydrocarbons and used on humans.
    The discussion is old; very old. Check out this rumor.

  • ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5
    12 years ago

    i will add one thing.. for those who are browsing.. but havent done all this.. that has been left unsaid above ...

    when i use chemicals on house plants.. i do it in early fall .... OUTSIDE ... which gives the plants/pots.. at least a full month OUTDOORS to off gas.. and get rid of the chemical smells.. and reduce to nill any lingering chems in the house ...

    i also do it for all houseplants that spend summer outdoors .. so as to avoid bringing in a plethora of bugs as winter guests ...

    and i usually repot/change media ... a week or two earlier ... also reducing bugs in the potting media ... and that would be part of the IPM [integrated pest management] mentioned way up top ... [and i never use chems on a stressed plant -- so repot first.. let it calm down.. then go for the systemic]

    anyone who does this entirely in the house in winter when the house is hermetically sealed ... ought to rethink proper timing of preventative medicine ... if you prevent.. you dont need to cure at the wrong time or wrong circumstances

    ken

  • Kimmsr
    12 years ago

    One very effective method of insect pest control for any plant is to give it a good shower, knock those bugs off the plant. That also does not expose you and your family to the potentially bad side affects of the poisons many people use which we have no real idea what they do. Very few of the poisons sold have been tested for adverse affects to humans because there is no requirement to do so because they are not meant to be used on humans.

  • zen_man
    12 years ago

    GT,

    "It will kill the young mealies, for a while, but the adults don't die unless I spray them with a 50/50 mix of 70% rubbing alcohol and water with a squirt of Ivory dish soap added."

    The adult mealies are probably not feeding significantly, if at all, so they don't get a dose of any systemic. I think you are going to have to resort to some sort of contact killer, like alcohol & water or some actual contact insecticide to get the adults. I have on occasions used a household vacuum cleaner or a computer keyboard vacuum to suck insects off of my plants.

    "Does anyone know of another systemic available that does not contain Imidacloprid?"

    I am going to rely on Kontos as a first line of defense against aphids, thrips, and spider mites on my indoors zinnia activities. It travels both up and down in a plant, so you don't have to spray it on -- you can apply it as a drench or just include it in the water that you use on your plants. As far as I know, it is the only fully systemic miticide. Yes, it is expensive. But not as expensive as Forbid. Obviously, you should not use any systemic on an edible plant.

    ZM
    (not associated with any product or vendor mentioned or linked)

  • scottys
    12 years ago

    Di-Syston is a systemic insecticide. I haven't bought it in a few years, but the container I have on hand was made by Hy-Yield.

  • zen_man
    12 years ago

    I think the Di-Syston product was discontinued and withdrawn from the market several years ago.