Mike they look great! Nothing like seedlings, just love watching then grow.

Wendy

Seedlings are fun to grow. Keep in mind they may take 3-5 years to bloom, depending on culture, and even then they may not be anything special. If you're young, go for it!

hey dave. Ive got the time, its the patience thats may be a problem. LOL

almost a month old now and they are taking off pretty good. Started feeding them diluted Foliage Pro.
I think its interesting how the trunks and leaf color and shape are a little different from each other. Is that typical?

mike

Your seedlings look great! Yes, I think it's totally normal to have those variations even from the same seed types - each one is unique and can be totally different than it's sibling seeds. It's fascinating how even so early on you can see individual traits / traits in common.

Your seedlings look wonderful!! Hope you keep us posted on your progress :)

Nicole

Well they all graduated to bigger pots. All did well with the transition.

Mike

My Goodness!

I can't wait till mine look this good!
I like the dark one on the lower right, very interesting color!
Great photos nice journey of their development.

Color of your trunks and stems are a great indicator of your flower colors!
The darker the stems the more red you'll have in your flower.
Did these all come from the same seed pod?
The reason I ask, leaf shapes show slight variations.
Excellent work here and I admire your dedication!
Aloha! Stuart

Wow! They're growing fast! They look great. :)

-Robert

Stuart, that is very interesting that you mention stem color in relation to flower color. I have observed the same thing with inflo stems.

Excites me, most of my seedlings are dark. :)

Thanks guys/girls.

Stuart. Yours will be there soon. Especially in that wonderful Florida climate. That one is my favorite. Along with its complete uniqueness to the others it has started a few branches. The mother had 2 pods from the same inflo. I do know that only the delightful was in bloom at the time so I know there wasn't any cross pollination. I hope that darker one is more red than mother plant. That would be pretty cool. Whatever it ends up looking like I've decided to name it after my daughter.

Mike

Just wanted to update. I am so excited at how much darker a few of these are compared to mom and the others

Take care
Mike

WOW Mike, look at them grow! They are looking real good. Hopefully the dark ones will be dark red. Peg

I planted my 1st seedlings in April of this year. And I am amazed at how they turned out being that everything I read about plumerias is how they are a slow growing plant. I believe one article said the plant only grows up to 12" in the 1st year. Maybe I have super soil or something because my plants are almost 5 months old and are about 3' tall. They are also branching out like crazy. Ive had to stake them up even. From my experience so far, im not finding useful information. I will load some pics here in a little bit. Has anyone elses plants grown like this and is it normal?

Tkallum, I've grown lots of plumeria seedlings and they grow very quickly the first couple of years. I have several that are not even two-years-old yet and are over two feet tall.

Maybe it was newly-rooted cuttings the article referred to? Certain varieties will grow very slowly every year while others can grow one to two feet per year until they mature. Then they'll slow down. Depends on whether they're in a container and the climate/nutrition they're exposed to.

It is unusual for them to branch as seedlings. I think that might be due to sucking insects, but that's just a guess.

Just wanted to update. I love how red some are. I have 4 T5 2 lamp 54 watt fixtures that I hope will help keep these going this winter. My new greenhouse is just about done also.

Mike

Wow! It's amazing how fast these suckers can grow! Good job, Mike!

-Robert

Wow! I'm just getting started with Plumeria and got some seeds.
looking at how well yours did and how quickly they seem to grow I will be out planting for sure today! I was going to wait until my cuttings arrive but can still mix up a big batch of medium and get the little ones going.

Thanks Robert. this spring Ill get one of them to ya.

yeah other than the runt in front I cant believe how much they have grown in just a few months. Just September alone they seem to have double in size.

Mike

My plumies been out all summer,will be putting them to bed for the winter what best pesticide to spray on them to keep the bugs away. Thank for the help

Lookin' good there Mike! Great job! Are you getting (or already have) a grow light to keep them going over the winter? I'm looking into that for mine now...didn't realize I would need to keep them going! LOL!

Hey Elucas

I bought 4-4 foot long 2 lamp T5 strip lights. I mounted them all to a board long ways. Each bulb is 54 watts for a total 432 watts. Im sure going with Metal Halide or Sodium might be better, but these i had access to and got a good deal. They sure are bright too.

This is my first winter with seedlings and all I know is most people suggested trying to keep them going.

mike

I was actually looking at T5's as well - I read they are very efficient and don't get as hot as some of the others and also the output can be significantly higher than some other types of bulbs - is that what you've heard as well? I think you did good.

I only realized a few weeks or months ago I really needed to keep them going - us plumie folks just jump right in, don't we?! I have a cutting and a few newly rooted ones that I'll put under the lights too so they can be nice and strong for spring. I've found a pretty good deal on some but I'm still looking just to make sure, they aren't cheap no matter how you slice it. This should be interesting though, we're in the same boat so we'll have to keep each other updated.

Elucas

Im an electrician and to be embarrassingly honest I really dont know enough to say this or that light is better for growing plants. You would think I would know that but in my line of work its usually "is this bright enough or not to perform to your needs". As far as efficient, yes the ones I have are about a good as it gets for fluorescent. I actually got these with a bulk job order so my cost was zero :).

Really any light short of incandescent is better than nothing in my opinion. Last winter I started lots of veggies with just a 2 lamp 4' T8 fixture. And those are getting pretty cheap also.

Mike

Here's a good site for reading about grow lights. I bought 2 2' 4 bulb T5 HO (High Output) fixtures to keep some recently rooted plants going over the winter with heat mats.

The T5's sure are bright! I pulled them out of the boxes when I got them to make sure they worked and no bulbs got broke in transit. Plugged them in, turned them on and about got blinded. Made the mistake of having the bulbs facing up, shining right in my face. lol

As far as growing leaves vs flowers, here's a copy/paste from that website: 2700k to 3000k bulbs provide higher output in the red spectrum which promotes flowering. 5000k to 6500k bulbs are full spectrum with much of the light in the blue spectrum which promote overall green plant growth.

The ones I got from Hydro farm came with all 6500K lights. I found a place on the web where I can get 2700K bulbs (very hard to find, it turns out), so I may get some of those and use 2 of those and 2 of the 6500K bulbs in each fixture, as I would like to promote flowering over the winter or at least get them started on the path to flower in spring when I put them outside.

Here is a link that might be useful: Grow light info

Mike, your seedlings are looking great! Love the side-brancher with the red leaf stems. And don't discount your runt--she might grow up to be a great compact bloomer with great genes like Delightful's. I keep all my runts for that very reason, though a couple have really caught up this second year.

Just wait till you compare this year's pics with next year's plants! It'll knock your socks off.

Mike, great to have an electrician on the forum!

Can you give a link to or post a photo of the T5 strip lights you are using? I'd love to see that setup.

I'm just using regular old shop-light fluorescents in the bASement, but if T5s are brighter and still relative inexpensive, I might look for them.

Thanks in advance.

Dave

thanks for the link Del

Jandy- I have high hopes for the runt, its going to be the next big thing in the plumeria world, LOL.

Dave

Ill take a pic when i get home tonight. I still have to tidy the set up a bit because ironically i didnt have all the fittings and wire I needed with me when i brought them home. Really its nothing special. 4 2 lamp strips side by side attached to wood. The nice thing about T5 strips is how skinny they are. All 4 side by side only takes up about 10 inches. The whole light set up is 46"L x 10" wide.
I may end up offsetting them by a foot or so to make it longer and maybe a bit wider depending on the light spread.

they arent cheap though. The fixtures I have range anywhere from $75 to $100 and the lamps are about $3-$4 each.

are your shop lights T8? cost wise those are still a pretty good light with the right bulbs.

Mike

Mike, I wanna say T12. Are those the larger ones?

yes those are the big ones. The "T" stands for Tubular and the # stands for the lamps diameter in 1/8th of an inch so T12 are tubular 1 1/2" lamps

In my industry T5 fixtures are gaining interest with architect and engineers but the cost is still holding them back a little. T8 is the go to standard right now and that is making them pretty affordable. The only drawback is you are limited to 32 watts per 4' lamp with a T8, unless you "overdrive" them. Lumens is really what we want in a grow lamp and the T8 is generally around 2500-2800 where the 54 watt 4' T5 can be around 4600

Andrew uses a 600 watt High pressure sodium set up and he has reported good results. The draw back to HPS and HID is they produce a good amount of heat, can be loud and arent that cheap to buy but neither is a good T5 setup.

HID is really about as close to sunlight as it gets and if I had my choice I would probably go with that.

mike

I have an HID hallide to supplement my fluorescents, but need to get a new bulb (1,000 watt). They're not cheap either!

dave

The other advantage to the fluorescents is that they use comparatively less power.

Has anyone tried the LED grow lights? I was at a friend's house and he retrofitted his aquarium lights from sodium bulbs to LED with positive results.

I would expect the cost is higher but they are more energy efficient. Generally speaking I would not want the heat load from HPS or HID

This is a copy/paste from that link I posted upthread:

LED grow lights are the newest lighting option for plants. They are advertised to be the most efficient and coolest running grow lights available. We have tested several different types of LED grow lights and have found none that outperform much cheaper fluorescent grow lights of similar wattage. LED plant grow lights are also not recommended for use with plants that you want to be viewed, because they give plants an unnatural appearance when the light is on.

i tried to get a picture of mine with them on but it was too bright and my phone camera wouldnt take a good picture. here is what they look like.

Mike

Do T5s give you more 'lumens for the buck' than T12s?

Dave

on a strictly cost of the lamps themselves for the amount of lumens. I would say yes and no. T5 lamps are generally twice the initial cost but provide generally twice the lumens. so on that i'd say not so much. However The upside is that T5 lamps typically last around 5000 hours longer, 25k versus 20k(4 foot lamps) Plus their energy consumption is less.

Back in july of this year manufacturers of T12 had to stop making some types of T12's,

"The specific lengths of T12 lamps affected by this law are four-foot (48-inch) lamps with a bi-pin base, two-foot (24-inch) U-shaped lamps with a bi-pin base, and eight-foot (96-inch) lamps with either a single-pin base or a recessed double contact (RDC) base.

You can still get these until the supply runs out and as it does you can be sure the price will go up.

Here is a few tips I point out to my customers.

T8 bi pin lamps will fit in the same socket as T12 so all you need to do is swap the ballast and lamps. usually there is no need to change the whole fixture

The lifespan of fluorescent lamps can be significantly increased by not turning cycling them on off. I know this defeats the purpose of saving energy. For example I have those screw in CFL's in some light outside my house that have been burning for over 5 years, 43,000hrs or so(seriously!) Also We have a light in the back shop that is 4-T8 lamps and it has been burning for over 2 years, same lamps. That's getting close to the manufactures listed hours so we will see.

anyways, sorry to talk/type your ear off about light bulbs.LOL

mike

Mike, if possible, hang some aluminum foil on both sides of the fixture to bounce more of the light back onto the plants. A lot of it is being wasted. Also, your fixture doesn't have a reflector to bounce the light down so the foil will help with that. I've also read that T5's are cooler than the older style bulbs so you can get them closer to the plants without burning them. Another thing I've read about them is that they also don't get near as hot at each end of the bulb as the older lights do so can possibly put more plants under them. Years ago I was using the standard T8's with shop light fixtures and if the end 2 inches of bulb touched the plants, in minutes the plant tips or whatever was contacting the bulbs looked like autumn leaves, dried and crispy.

Here's a pic of a 2 light Hydrofarm T5 fixture with built in polished mirror-like reflectors. I will be adding foil to one side and the other side will be facing a south facing sliding glass door so the winter sun can shine directly on the plants.

DelWH can you tell me how much that cost? will my shop lights work for my plants?

I think that one was around $67-$71 on Amazon, depending on the day. Amazon's prices float all around, even hourly. A 2' 4 light one is around $89. That includes the T5 bulbs. Free shipping, however.

The shop lights will work, although they probably don't have a builtin reflector like you see in the pic, and will probably have the standard T8 bulbs, which don't put out as much light. The T5's in this fixture are HO (High Output) so they produce even more light than the regular T5. You should hang some aluminum foil along both sides to reflect as much light energy back onto the plants as possible.

i have my plumes in the closet with tin foil hanging on the walls it seems to be working fine. thanks delWH

Thanks Del. I have some foil tape that i have used on a aquarium hood that I thought about using. I will do that this weekend. I have an idea for making a reflector so Ill see how it works.

My lamps get pretty warm. here it is on. Im rooting a scott pratt, celadine and trying to re-root an inca gold. The lamps that came with these fixtures are 3500k and I plan to order some 5-6k bulbs. its not that yellow in real life.

mike

great post. Here is my interest in the LED solution. my greenhouse is in a location which I cannot easily get standard electrical to without extension cords etc. (IOW probably not to code and ugly too). I do have 14 guage low voltage wiring in very near proximity and since I have converted many of my backyard spots to LED I have a 300 watt supply thats less than 2/3rds used.

So I was cosidering splicing a lead to the greenhouse and using the low voltage transformer to power them. THe LED grow lights I found seem to be around 27 watts each which would permit a total of three to run on the transformer concurrently with the landscape lights.

I would primarily put the youngsters under such a light for the 2-3 months they spend in the greenhouse. Del and Mike...What do you guys think? worth it...bad idea...not gonna work?

Hey K

I wish I knew more about LED's. Wattage wise it seems to be on the low end of what most online sellers are selling. I see many single grow lights that are above 100. Honestly if you have all the stuff right now give it a shot. Cant hurt right?

How far from an electrical source is the greenhouse?

Mine is about 75 feet and Im too lazy and cheap to run power to it. I use a 12 gauge extension cord with no problems. Is it up to code, well thats debatable.

The code is fairly specific about uses "not permitted" with flexible cords. The biggest is that they are not to be used as a substitute for fixed wiring meaning for temporary use only.

Mike

K, like Mike said, if you already have the LED's go ahead and use them. Looking around, it appears another issue is that different LED's produce different light wavelengths. The link below shows setups that have different wavelength LED's mixed to provide balanced growth, i.e., blooms plus leaves. As Mike said, they are of a substantially higher wattage than the setup you have. Yours may not be bright enough to do much.

Mike, that setup should work OK, especially when you put foil, shiny side in, on one or better, both sides. There may be a heat build up once you enclose it however. One other thing about light, the light energy falls off rapidly the farther they are from the plants. Many years ago I used to use a similar setup (not for plumerias) and after awhile, the plants took on a Serengeti plain like look, all the leaves at the top and just stems below. LOL With plumeria's having all the leaves towards the top anyway, that might not be such an issue.
The Kelvin light balance of those bulbs is more towards promoting flowering, so for your purposes, the 6500K lights should be better, since that should promote leaf and stem growth.

The main advantage of the T5 HO lights over the T12's is that they are brighter for the same length bulb, and since they run cooler, you can have the plant tops closer to the bulbs. Also, since they put out more light, lower parts of plants or shorter plants under the same fixture get more light.

Here is a link that might be useful: LED Growlights

Thanks. I'll think about a different way to put some supplimental light on my plumerias.

Well my seedlings are almost a year old. they seemed to growing very fast. My favorites are the 2 in front with multiple branches already.

Mike

This post was edited by mksmth on Thu, May 9, 13 at 18:56

Hi, I am new to plumeria growing. I guess my zone would be 5, southern Tasmania, latitude 42. Anyhows, I have 9 seedlings, most of which now have about 8 leaves but one poor seedling has 2 proper leaves which after being yellow for about 2 weeks have now dried and curled off. No idea why, treated the same as all the others.
I was looking at your seed raising mix though and wondered what mix do you use and do you lay your seeds flat or put them thick pointy end down at an angle? Just wondering which way gets the most germination as I have another 30 seeds waiting to be planted.
Your plants are looking great :)
Cheers and happy gardening.

Hey angel, I just use regular potting soil for any seedling that I grow from vegetables to plumeria. Its cheap readily available and works fine for me.

I put the fat end just in the soil with the wing sticking up.

one of these ended up falling over and breaking in half. I have since tried to graft another variety on to it.

Mike

Mike, your seedlings are looking great! You did such a good job with them over the winter. Did you have any problems with spider mites?

They are going to go nuts this season I bet!!! Keep us posted!

Thanks E. I didnt have much problem with spider mites this winter. We did have a bad time with white flies. I need to get them potted up soon. Poor things are bulging the pots. at this rate Im afraid the tall ones will get to be 5-6 feet tall before they flower.

Mike