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hawkeye38_gw

Malformed Leaves

hawkeye38
11 years ago

I have 3 plumeria plants that are 1 1/2 years old and have been freting because they have not bloomed. About 2 or 3 months ago the largest stalk began growing malformed leaves---a half leaf(all on one side), a 2/3 leaf, a figure 8 leaf, an arrow shape leaf, then a multiple ridge leaf. Then it produced a flower bud! I'm so happy!

My question is, is this normal when a stalk starts blooming? All the other plants including the other stalk on the bloomer are producing perfect looking leaves. Should the odd leaves be removed or is it missing a necessary mineral? Thanks

Comments (12)

  • beachplant
    11 years ago

    thrips maybe, I get them on my plumeria and citrus and they cause all kinds of weird leaves.
    Is it neem oil I spray for that? Or is that for the leaf miners and the scale?
    Check at the garden center for something for thrips.
    Tally HO!

  • elucas101
    11 years ago

    I completely agree, thrips. You can try an insecticidal soap, if that doesn't do it, move up to something a bit stronger. I use Green Light something or other with Spinosad in it. (A biological agent that only kills if the bug bites your plant) Stay away from products with Imidacloprid in them if possible, it's a contact killer and also suspected of killing off the honey bees.

  • tapla (mid-Michigan, USDA z5b-6a)
    11 years ago

    Thrips are, of course, a very distinct possibility, but there are several nutrient deficiencies that can cause deformed growth, and several cultural conditions, in addition to an ACTUAL nutritional deficiency, that can make it difficult for a plant to take up particular nutrients. For example - there could be enough Ca in the soil, but if you 'added a little shot of Epsom salts to green up your plant", the excess Mg in the Epsom salts could block uptake of Ca (an antagonistic deficiency), and a Ca deficiency can cause the symptoms described. I'm not suggesting that's the issue here, only that there is a lot more to consider than it seems on its face.

    Are these plants in containers? How about a description of your nutritional supplementation program - using what? how much? how often? did you make your own soil? using what as a Ca source? Any chance they might have been affected by 'drift' of a herbicide applied nearby?

    Al

  • beachplant
    11 years ago

    I`d look for bugs first since the other stalk has normal leaves.

    A deficiency would NOT appear on only one side of the plant, it would affect the whole plant while insect infestations can affect one side, then as the infestation worsens spread to the other parts of the plant and other plants. IE: the grapefruit in the backyard has leaf miners on the lower leaves but none at the top of the canopy,it just has a mild infestation. The Kaffir lime growing a few feet away has no leaf miners but did have deformed leaves earlier in the year, a quick inspection found thrips. A routing of spraying for several weeks took care of both.

    The giant cereus cactus growing next door is pale yellow, it has no insects. This is growth from the parent that "fell over" during Ike and then started sprouting new growth, the fallen over part of the cactus can no longer provide enough nurtients for what are branches growng from it, which are now over 12-16` tall. This plant displays the symptoms of nutrient deficiencies, the WHOLE plant is affected. The cure for this plant is to chop off all the "branches" and then replant them, thus they will develop roots and get the nutrients they need. I have an agreement with the neighbor I grow plants in his 2 big beds of his rental property and maintain them. Next week the machete and I will take care of the cactus. This change in the plant has been dramatic with it`s summer growth, it has grown a good 3-4`in the past couple of months.

    Tally Ho!

  • tapla (mid-Michigan, USDA z5b-6a)
    11 years ago

    I'm not debating that the OP's issue is or isn't a nutritional deficiency, but nutritional deficiencies very often do occur in predictable parts of the plant or only in some areas and not others, and often disfavor one or more branches over others - or one side of a plant over another side. The reasons are several, but the most common reasons are two, A) many nutrients need to be constantly present in the nutrient stream while cells are forming - witness particularly Ca and B, but also to a large degree S, Cu, Fe, Mn, and Z. When the supply of these nutrients moves toward actual deficiency OR unavailability due to cultural reasons, the symptoms are often deformities and manifest first in the most vigorous areas of the plant. It stands to reason that when nutrients are in short supply it would most affect the parts of the plant that are growing fastest and need them the most. B) The inhibition of a root's function very often affects the plant's ability to move nutrients and water to very specific parts of the plant, with other parts of the plant being largely unaffected. We see this in cases of root disease, root injury, especially in cases where roots on one (the sunny) side of a container become over-heated, and in cases where water-logging is a factor.

    For example, I have an amur maple I collected from the wild last spring and put in a container as potential bonsai material. Recently, it had one branch that was growing like mad, with the foliage on that branch (only) being nearly white and the rest of the tree appearing green and healthy. Recognizing this as a probable Fe deficiency, I used pH Down on it and applied a little Sprint 138, an Fe chelate for high pH applications. That was last Sat or Sun, and today the leaves are almost as green as the rest of the plant. I examined the foliage on that branch with a 10X loupe, and there were no signs or symptoms of insects or predation.

    So, that still leaves a nutritional deficiency on the table as a distinct possibility. Again, I'm not arguing against the possibility or probability that it's thrips or even aphids, only that you can't eliminate nutritional deficiencies as a distinct possibility. The questions I asked were aimed at trying to determine the probability/improbability of it being nutrient related.

    Al

  • beachplant
    11 years ago

    look for thrips, they are a big problem with plumeria. Always try the simple solution first then look for other problems.

    Since hawkeye is in zone 7b it is highly unlikely these are planted outside in the ground, thus, it can be safely assumed they are in pots. There are very few of us on this forum that don`t grow our plumeria in pots.

    You should always turn any plants in pots to prevent this lopsided problem you have. I routinely rotate all the indoor plants and most of the ones in pots outside, even those in full sun.

    Tally HO!

  • tapla (mid-Michigan, USDA z5b-6a)
    11 years ago

    Of course it doesn't matter what issue Hawkeye explores first, in fact - it would be best if he addressed both possibilities asap, rather than putting all his eggs in one basket. What's most important is that he understands his initial suspicion is, in fact, a possibility - that nutritional issues are indeed a potential cause of deformed foliage, and that they ARE often manifest in localized areas of a plant. It doesn't matter to me what course he takes or who thinks what course is the wisest, only that the information he receives is accurate, so he can make an informed decision about how he would like to address the issue.

    In this case, if we simply disregard the possibility of this being a nutritional issue, we commit a causal fallacy - that being 'ignoring a common cause', which is a logical error and takes the form of, "A and B are regularly connected (but no third, common cause is looked for). Therefore A is the cause of B. This error occurs primarily when the probability of the common cause being a consideration are remote, which is certainly far from the case in this particular circumstance. It was simply off the mark to suggest it could not be a nutritional issue. That's not important to me, but it has potential importance to the OP, so hopefully we can just let it be to avoid confusion.

    All the best to you.

    Al

  • beachplant
    11 years ago

    Yawn.

    Tally Ho!

  • PRO
    the_first_kms2
    11 years ago

    Its 1 1/2 years old and its blooming for the first time. I dont think you are seeing anything too dramatic considering those two facts.

    I would treat for thrip and get a routine fertilizing program in place. It doesnt have to be complex just consistent. Almost any balanced fertilizer would help.

    Don't sweat the small stuff...you got it to bloom congratulations on that and post a picture if you can.

  • Loveplants2 8b Virginia Beach, Virginia
    11 years ago

    Hello Everyone,

    Just wanted to chime in here and say that I agree with K.

    Its easy to get a fertilizer program started for your trees and also watch for anything that may harm the tree.

    I just sprayed with the Bayer 3 in 1 this afternoon and then gave them a little water then fertilized.

    To the OP... I hope your trees continue to bloom!

    Congratulations on that!! You have been doing something right, so just watch the tree and consider the advise given here..

    Al, I DO appreciate the advise that you give... others do as well!!!

    Thank you for helping out.. : )

    Take care everyone..

    Laura

  • tapla (mid-Michigan, USDA z5b-6a)
    11 years ago

    Thanks, Laura. Your habitual kindness adds some welcome balance to the conversation. It's much appreciated.

    I have some other thoughts the OP might find some value in, but I'll sort of hang loose & see if he returns.

    Al

  • hawkeye38
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    Thanks all for your very informed input! I think my problem was due to improper insect control as I was spraying only the top of the leaves to keep the cicadas off. I actually caught and killed two of them munching on the tender tops. I subsequently began spraying all over with neem and after 5 malformed leaves I now have 2 perfect new leaves around the flower bud. The other plants continue to grow well. So I am assumming thrips got to that one stalk and are now dead!
    The flower bud has grown to about 3 inches and is spreading slightly to give the flowers some room. I can't wait for the grand opening!! I'll post a photo if all goes well. Thanks Hawkeye