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Not the Plumie I thought I bought.....

Posted by mjhuntingtonbeach CA 10 (My Page) on
Sun, Sep 13, 09 at 0:35

Last summer I fell in love with a plumeria called "Sangwaltubtim" or some varient of that... a pink flower in an umbrella shape, looked great in the pictures. Soooo, long story short, I ordered one on Ebay, cost a pretty penny, grafted.... nursed it along... it bloomed finally a month ago.... anyone know what the heck this is? Hardly any scent at all fwiw, kind of a washed out white yellow center and some streaking ....

Unknown Thai 3 Aug 09
Unknown Thai 2 Aug 09
Unknown Thai 1 Aug 09


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Not the Plumie I thought I bought.....

It's certainly unique! Was it a US or foreign seller?


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RE: Not the Plumie I thought I bought.....

I believe the seller was Thai... but I vaguely recall it was shipped from a US location, not sure what the story is


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RE: Not the Plumie I thought I bought.....

I'm an orchid grower and have a few Plumies. If those were orchid flowers I would tell you the plant is probably virused. Not sure whether Plumeria's show virus with color break as orchids do. You might want to get the plant tested.

Jane


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RE: Not the Plumie I thought I bought.....

I would hang on to it as that shape is very rare in the plumeria world. I would think it came from a seedling of JL.pink pansy from Jim Little. I have the only reddish one I have seen which was a possible cross of a pink pansy and a Cindy Moragne that happened in my yard with the Moragne the mother.
JL.pink pansy:
Image Hosted by ImageShack.us
Cindy Baby #6 Sherry Skipper-Spurgeon:
Image Hosted by ImageShack.us


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RE: Not the Plumie I thought I bought.....

Hello, I really wouldn't care what it is called, it is simply lovely anyway. It's probably even better than the one you thought you'd bought. Wish I had it!
Hazel.


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RE: Not the Plumie I thought I bought.....

Agree with Jane. Looks like it has the colorbreak virus which is contagious. I've read that Luc from FCN would burn this so it doesn't infect other plants. I won't buy plants with virus


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RE: Not the Plumie I thought I bought.....

It looks like it can be a virus, and as far as I know they are contagious (but I think it usually spreads only by insects who bite into the leaves) but I doubt it would spread to other plants that arent plumerias.

I would keep it away from any other pluemrias if possible, but it looks like a very unique plumeria so maybe if your lucky it will grow out of the possible virus.

good luck and hope it all goes well :)


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RE: Not the Plumie I thought I bought.....

does not look like a colorbreak to me. Coloration is too evenly distributed on the petals. There is no variation from flower to flower.


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Pretty sure it's not a virus

Well, after the first few blooms, more have come and gone. I think the streaks were the color from under the petal melting through (the bottom of each petal is deep red along the edge.

Here are a few more recent pictures, taken Sept 17/18 vs. the August 2 pictures before, what do y'all think?

Unknown 1 9-16

Unknown 1 9-17-09

Unknown 1 9-18-09

Unknown 2 9-18-09

Unknown 3 9-18-09

Unknown 5 9-18-09

Unknown 6 9-18-09

Still no fragrance but we'll see how this one goes next year :)


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RE: Not the Plumie I thought I bought.....

Based on Sangwaan Tabtim's description, I'd say you have the correct plant but lack the heat that drives color saturation.

Sangwaan Tabtim 3" to 3.5" rounded flowers. Shades of red to dark pink spread over cream background with occasionally white shining through. Leaves: medium green, obovate with pointed tip. Unusual flower-shape and coloration. The petals are very broad, fan-shaped and heavily overlapping. Fragrance is very sweet and fresh.

A good example can be found on Brad's site, and the shape and center color is correct.

Not all colors will pop in HB - I keep a list of ones that do well on the coast, since I seldom get sustained heat. If you'd like a copy, simply send a note off forum. Good examples are Ferris Wheel, Scarlet Red, and Kaneohe Sunburst. diana =^,,^=

Here is a link that might be useful: Brad's Sangwaan tabtim


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RE: Not the Plumie I thought I bought.....

hmmm, I think you might have a point there about the cooler coastal weather. It rarely gets over 80 here on the hottest days, nights rarely above 65 in midsummer.

I believe I met you two years ago at the Jungle Jack's open house and I recall you were shopping based on fragrance, noting that issue about dull colors on the coast. That is certainly depressing... lol.

Speaking of Jungle Jacks and washed out colors, here's the "Inner Peace" I bought from him that day, a rainbow flower that for me is just a pale yellow white flower, probably my micro climate:

10-2

and some more of what we'll assume is the Sangwaam watchacallit at various times after the above pictures were taken:

Sept 21:

9-21
9-21

Seot 24:

9-24
9-24

Sept 28:

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9-28
9-28

Oct 13:

10-13


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RE: Not the Plumie I thought I bought.....

You're correct, we did chat at the O'side JJ.

The color loss can be extreme - here's Cal Sally on a good sized plant after purchase from a grower 10 miles inland

Cal Sally from K

Here's the same inflo a week later

Bud's Cal Sally

At least she kept her size. Others, like Barbados Showgirl, lose both color and size (1/2) when the weather cools. K. Sunburst, Irma B and Ferris Wheel didn't drop in saturation at all.

I've got a handful of Thai plants - should know next year how well they do on the coast.

=^,,^= Diana


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RE: Not the Plumie I thought I bought.....

Wow, that is a dramatic color drain..... ok, you've convinced me, I got what I paid for... lol. Just hope it's warmer next summer, maybe see what it looks like with some color.

Here's a picture I found of Sangwaltubtim on line, what I thought I'd get, MUCH darker:

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And here's what my ever changing chameleon looked like a couple of weeks ago in the rain:

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10-16


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An update, three years later....

Still not sure it is the plumeria I thought I was buying but I moved it into the front yard where it gets better light, and we have been having a heat wave, hard to believe it is the same plumeria. Pictures:

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RE: Not the Plumie I thought I bought.....

It certainly looks closer to the online picture. It doesn't appear that the flowers reflex back like the online picture however. Still, a nice looking flower.


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RE: Not the Plumie I thought I bought.....

Wow! That's quite a magnificent display! Looks like a compact plant too?


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RE: Not the Plumie I thought I bought.....

Impressive!! I love!! I think you got what you bought and then some! :)


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RE: Not the Plumie I thought I bought.....

Yes, this summer it does seem to have come into its own. I do think it needs either a larger pot or planting in the ground although it is a very compact tree, as you can see in the pictures below. I got it grafted, so I am not certain if that is why it is so compact, or if that is just its natural growth pattern, or something else I am doing to it that has a dwarfing effect. I have made several cuttings and on its own roots it seems to have a tendency to branch soon and often.

Full plant views:

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RE: Not the Plumie I thought I bought.....

Another great compact bloomer, Mike! I think that's just its nature. Thanks for posting the pics of the full tree. Very nice shape!

That Sangwaan Tabtim might also be called J115, but I'm not certain. Does it have a fragrance?


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RE: Not the Plumie I thought I bought.....

Hi Jandey, and yes, very compact, I think it was this summer's unusual heat that made it bloom so nicely and finally with some color. From the pictures I am seeing of J115, it could very well be the J115, or the JJ "super round" and in years past it had more of the rounded umbrella type petals so who knows. I should find somewhere to plant it in the ground to see if it bulks up and flowers better.

Sadly though, no fragrance. But I love the shape of the tree and the flowers.


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RE: Not the Plumie I thought I bought.....

Yeah, I'm sure what some collectors have dubbed Thai Super Round is J115.

Shame about the fragrance, but WOW, what a fantastic growth habit! Soooo tempting!

Jen


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RE: Not the Plumie I thought I bought.....

Do you want it to bulk up? It's so perfect as it is! :)


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RE: Not the Plumie I thought I bought.....

What an incredible difference from the first blooming to the last one, I think the blooms a beautiful and I love the tree itself! Very pretty!!


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