Tropicanna's Dead???
Posted by kimbra4 S. Calif. (My Page) on Sun, Jan 23, 05 at 22:04

I am in Thousand Oaks, Ventura County in So. Calif. and I have a bunch of Tropicana Canna in the ground. We do not normally get a real freeze but in Dec. we had a few weeks of really cold, freezing temps....My Tropicanna's look dead, they leaves are all folded over, brown and about 1/2 the size they were this past summer...We have had nice weather for 2 weeks now and I am not seeing any life out of them....How long should I wait it out? I am tempted to dig them up and return them to Home Depot (which you can do for 1 year after purchase) Thanks kimbra4@msn.com

How on earth can reputable hard working nurserymen and women compete with this...
I don't mean matching the price for price, we all have debated the merits of that and know the advantages of shopping at our highly regarded neighborhood professional nurseries,

But how do you deal with that consumer mentality that " jeeze lousie, I'll just return my annuals at the end of the season for a refund or return my bulbs because they got hit by a frost ? "

I don't own a nursery business, but for some odd reason , that post really irked the pix out of me.
Can people really be that stupid ?

95% of the returns involved houseplants. No big deal. Suddenly I realized an increase in the returns of landscape plants, always 5 or 15 gallons, usually the same genus. Bouganvillas were among the most popular. After a month of this insanity we no longer had these plants available for weekend customers. They were purchased sometime late on Thursday or on Friday. It turned out that real estate agents and home decorators caught on to this and used it to their advantage to 'spruce up' open house showings. They would pull the plants up on Monday or Tuesday, throw them in the back of a truck in the hot sun all week, then return them when the needed fresh plants for the following weekend's open house showings. It finally came to an end when the store manager had to deal with the shrinkage factor. The end result was him having to explain to these people that there is a little than bad luck going on when they are purchasing $1000 in plants every week, and returning them the following week.

You'd have had to visit Logee's and its massive, well-stocked greenhouse complex full of healthy plants to fully appreciate this nutty rant. Um, display plants up to a century old in clay pots will accumulate some moss and algae. What's worse though, is that they are actually growing in dirt! How FILTHY!!!

Now to the return policy. HD has a very liberal return policy and I think the above is one reason why. Customer satisfaction is important to any business and they will try to accomplish it in any manner best suited to them. I think it very likely that the large discounters like HD believe it is cheaper in the long run to offer full refunds than to hire more expensive but knowledgeable staff or otherwise attempt to educate their customers. They make up for it in shear volume of goods sold. This was hashed out pretty well in the thread early in the season on "why are your plants so expensive?" Plants are a loss leader for them.

Unfortunately, this has a bit of a negative impact on the regular retail nursery industry as well. It is the same situation as was discussed on that previous thread: "why are your plants (the retail nursery) so expensive when I can buy the same plant at HD for a third to a half less?" only in this case it is "HD offers a full refund on any plant, why don't you?". And the answers are the same - better after care, more knowledgeable staff, customer education, etc.

Having worked in the retail nursery industry for about 10 years at a couple of different shops, one with a VERY liberal return policy, the other quite a bit more conservative, I have not seen returns to be a huge problem. The reason? The plants are of better quality and better cared for, they are sold by educated and experienced staff members who take the time to explain growing conditions and habits and they are all properly signed with needs and requirements and might even come with a detailed info handout as well.

Sure, there will always be those who try to take advantage of the policy but they are pretty easy to weed out and not as prevalent as you would think. Even at the nursery with the extremely liberal return policy (1 year, no questions asked on trees and shrubs, 6 months on perennials), returns only accounted for about 1% of total sales, a pretty insignificant amount.

Any place that offers a one year return policy on annuals is not concerned about the material they are selling or the cost of returns on the business. Unfortunately it is a situation which continues to foster the ignorance of the consumer and generate topics like the source of this thread and the one referred to earlier. I doubt you would find a single real retail nursery in the country that offers a similar policy.

Someone posted on another forum about customers who purchased a 12-place china set and electric carving knife and board - just before Thanksgiving - from a big department store. Day after, the set and knife were returned (caked with grease and food) with the complaint that the china colors clashed with the dining room, and that the carving knife didn't work properly. The store took back the merchandize and refunded the money.

Pixxes me off.

It can get irksome, most stores that sell plants emphasize the fact that the 1 year (or however many years) warantee does NOT apply to anything frost-sensative! I guess with such a short growing season, it's rare to see anything alive (or something that looks somewhat alive) for a whole year straight.

-Audric

No one raised an eyebrow that you bought (and returned) 15 identical pairs of shoes??? What did you say, "My pet giant millipede turned out to be size 12"? heehee

just to mess withem... the sign says "ALL plants garunteed one year"

course I ended up supporting a local xmas tree farm.
damn da man.

Now that is too liberal.

jb

I bought some drapes recently from a linen chain store, and discovered once I got them home that they were completely wrong, in spite of having brought color samples to the store. I had paid with a debit card, and expected they would just credit my debit card when I returned the drapes. I was amazed that they handed me the cash back, and it was well over $100.00! When I asked them about it, they said it takes too long for the credit to go through, or show up, on a debit card, so it's their policy to give cash back when people have paid with a debit. I still just shake my head over it, but I guess it would be a bit trickier to scam them with a debit card than with a check.

Sally

kinda funny really, they were asking me questions about the various peat mosses available at lowes... seems the employees just said "we don't have any of that" and walked away.

course I have the various grades of peat memorized at lowes...

drew

Drew, I'm new to this forum, so I don't know what your business is, but do you own or work at a nursery? It is amazing to me that someone would call someone at another nursery and ask questions about the products at Lowes. That takes unbelievable gall!

Sally

I once bought a $2.00 bag of silica sand at a local farm supply chain. We had purchased patio blocks, screening and sand a few days earlier for a small project but had underestimated how much silica sand we needed, so I went back for one more bag with cold hard cash in hand.

For bulk material like this, you picked up a ticket in the store, paid, and then drove around the back of the store to the pick up yard. When I got to the yard, I found out they were out of silica sand. (Insert employees grumbling about new computer system here.) So I hike back around to the front to get my $2.00 back.

Turns out that they want my life history to give me back my money. I refused to do so, because I had nothing to do with the fact that I needed this refund - it was completely the store's fault and they didn't need to start a record under my name. When they told me that was the only way to get a refund, I told them my name was Mary Smith and I lived at 123 Main Street. My daughter and another customer who happened to know me both worked hard to stifle their laughing, but I got my $2.00 back.

It was a very expensive $2.00 since I spent about a good hour spending and retrieving it, with nothing more to show for it.

V.

I don't sell peat moss, or any other sorta retail goods. I sell plants. So it really didn't bother me that they called, it was worth the entertainment.

As for return policies. If there is any question that the merchandise was less than quality, or if I suggested something might work and it doesn't.......I don't have a problem with returns. I always ask what they did or did not do to it, and most people don't seem to mind, as they appear to want to be able to grow things successfully. But if it is their fault, I tell them so. I have never had anyone insist I should refund their money after admitting they killed their own plants. As for people who buy stuff and then plant it and decide they shoulda bought a different shade of flower, then expect me to pay for their mistake, that's unfortunate.

Sally

She insisted that she get a refund, so we said she should come back the next day when the manager of that department was in. We also said that we'd cut the plant back for her, water and fertilize it and she could pick up the rejuvenated plant in two weeks.

She went off saying she would be back to see a manager. We cut the plant back etc etc, and in two weeks it was looking fine. She did not return. We kept watering etc and in a month the plant was beautiful... finially, I gave up on her, and decided to hang the plant up to decorate the front of the store. When I lifted it up to hang it, I noticed the price tag on the bottom... it was not from our store! The price tag was from our largest competitor! No wonder she didn't return....

Having dealt with retail customers in the past who could be stubborn, I've always preferred to tread lightly or respond in a humorous vein when possible. Of course, it was helpful to know that the nursery owner also gave all employees the option of refusing service to belligerant customers if all else failed.

Not to hijack this thread, but personally, I have always found it more annoying to deal with customers who apparently have no intention of buying anything, but ask a million questions and take time away from customers who are there to make a purchase. I still haven't learned how to escape these sorts of situations gracefully.

Wow! Weren't you lucky. I, on the other hand, have actually lived the fish franchise cash register scene from "Fast Times at Ridgemont High", only at a nursery. I don't think any of the other nurseries I worked at ever gave the clerks any feeling of being more than "jerks" (D. Horowitz), either.

Wow, people who shop and work at these nurseries are lucky !

There are nurseries like Magic Gardens, Berkeley Horticultural, The Dry Garden and Annies Annuals who pride themselves on their service as well as hiring those who are extremely knowledgable horticulturally and are given a fair share of discerning managerial decision making power.

Come on down to Berkeley and give yourself a great plant shopping opportunity and experience good horticultural nursery management.

: ~ )

(wink wink )

Sally

You are not the only person to feel neglected by staff at Berkeley Horticultural Nursery, as they can get exceptionally busy, on weekends in particular. It is, however, a great local nursery to shop at because of the exceptionally well stocked variety they maintain, and the huge amount of local growers they buy from to furnish this variety. Annie's Annuals, (see their web site at www.anniesannuals.com for mailorder), is another great place to shop, especially with all the new plants she is continually introducing from South Africa/Silverhill Seeds in particular. Even some of the bigbox retailers have locally distinguished nursery departments here in the SF East Bay, such as Grand Ace Hardware Nursery in Oakland or the Pleasant Valley Longs also in Oakland. Maybe we are just lucky here, even though we don't seem to have the intense concentration of gardeners that you do in Seattle, where it can seem like everyone is a gardener...

OTOH, the permanent staff at most of these area nurseries is extremely knowledgeable and uniformly cordial and helpful. And I have never heard a Heronswood staff member have anything but wonderful things to say about working there.

-------------------------------------------------------

WORKPLACE
Some find it harder to keep the faith

In this era of mergers, layoffs and outsourcing, it's not surprising that some workers aren't enthused about their jobs - or their bosses.

And the fact that Generations X and Y are not as loyal to employers as their parents were is yet another reflection of our times. With their parents' pink slips still clear in their minds, younger workers are shifting away from the all-consuming career and opting for personal and professional balance instead.

Results from a new study seem to support the premise that many workers are losing faith in their employers. Released by Harris Interactive Inc., the New York market research firm, the survey of 7,718 working adults found that more than half don't trust their bosses. Others feel they've been treated unfairly, and complain of being locked into dead-end jobs.

Thirty-six percent of the people surveyed said their managers are dishonest and do not act with integrity. Twenty- nine percent don't believe top managers care about helping them to advance or improve their skills, and more than 30 percent are in jobs that aren't going anywhere.

Ken Dychtwald, founder of Age Wave, a San Francisco organization that counsels the government and private employers on services and policies that impact baby boomers and older adults, believes the findings point to a profound shift in the way people see their employers and jobs. He says the accounting scandals, coupled with the sluggish economy and layoffs, contribute to the negative views.

The survey, sponsored by 24 US corporations, including Age Wave, also reveals that younger workers are less likely to feel loyal to employers and are more distressed about the state of corporate America today.

In addition, many of the workers were more concerned about job security, healthcare coverage and professional development than a fatter paycheck, suggesting that employers will have to offer far more than extra pay to retain talent.

Overall, only 33 percent of the employees were satisfied with their jobs, and 12 percent were extremely satisfied. Just 20 percent felt passionate about their work, and less than 15 percent described their work as energizing. And only 31 percent reported their managers or employers inspired them to do their best work.

According to the study, managers seem to feel the same way. One-third didn't care about their employers; another third said they would be willing to promote their companies as great places to work. Just over a third said the companies they work for have inspired them.

The happiest employees? Workers at small companies. In all, 49 percent were satisfied with their jobs, 44 percent felt energized by their jobs, and 53 percent were passionate about the work they do, the study said. Of the workers at small firms, 64 percent really cared about their employers. Just 47 percent of the workers at big companies did. Sixty-one percent of the employees at small companies routinely give their best effort because they want to see their employer succeed. Only 43 percent of the workers at big firms agreed with that statement.

Seventy-four percent of the big firms allocate raises each year. However, only 34 percent of the small firms do so yearly. Eighty percent of the big corporations provide life insurance, but only 31 percent of the small companies do.

Of the workers at small firms, 64 percent said they cared about their employers. Just 47 percent of the workers at big companies said that. And 61 percent of the employees at small companies said they routinely give their best effort because they want to see their employer succeed. Only 43 percent of the employees at big firms agreed with that statement.

I've been told the General Manager at one of them practices pitting subordinates against one another, seeing who will come out on top. Same souce said this game is taught in business schools. I wonder how often I was caught up in this, without picking up on what was going on.

Same person also seems apt to fire employees, then try to get them back after a grace period. Power trip? Test of loyalty?

If you work for someone else you are working for the customers as well as the owner, subject to demands from both quarters. Working for myself I am subject only to the marketplace.

I was wondering about refunds, and how many of you offer them. My husband is the main guy behind our business, and he only guarantees that the plants will be healthy at the time of sale.

Last year, we had an enormous, beautiful flowering Mexican redbud tree for sale at the local H&G show. I don't know how big it was, but these people wanted to buy it, and have my husband come over and plant it for them and everything. He agreed to it for a total of $300 (tree and job). He made sure they knew that the tree would need some water to get established, but not to water it too much. Alot of our plants get overwatered and die, because people are used to buying plants that aren't adaptable to our climate and that need alot of water and care.

About two months later, these people called my husband and were very angry with him because the tree was dying. He went over to their house, and noticed that they had two sprinklers set up near it, and a hose right on it. He looked at the tree and determined that it had been overwatered. He told them to stop watering it, and it survived. They were alot nicer to him when they realized it was their fault that a $300 tree almost died.

That's basically why we don't guarantee our plants. Is there any reason why we should start?

A small-job landscaping client (it could have become a larger job, but her whining warned me to cut things off early) asked me to help her and her husband to figure out what to plant where in their mixed up garden. He's a desert environmental scientist who brings home rare but scraggley plants from his travels; she's a ditz who loves foof and hates the desert stuff.

After walking the garden with them and suggesting they segregate the "desert collection" from the "pretty stuff". they asked me to find a replacement for some Bridal Wreath Spirea which they both hated that was planted in front under the bay window between two red Camellias. The replacements had to be shade-tolerant, low maintenance, and grow exactly to the base of the front window.

I love this kind of challenge, and was not going to cop out and plant Raphiolepsis or other obvious solutions. I was lucky enough to find some lush red Cestrums which were the exact color of their Camellias, and also exactly the right height.

They were thrilled. Uncommon plants to make their neighbors envious, and color-coordinated to boot! Having realized that this job was going to be more marriage counselling than landscaping, I submitted my bill and suddenly got very busy.

A month later, the wife called me and said she and husband had decided they didn't like the Cestrums, that the plants were sick, and they wanted to exchange them for camellias. I checked out the plants and found them eaten down two feet by snails. Wife refused Sluggo, saying she didn't believe in poisons (!?!), and demanded the receipt for the plants so she could return them to Lowes, where they will take anything back for a year.

I spent serious daydreaming time composing the letter which would explain why I would not help her return abused plants to a hapless vendor with a generous return policy, but she phoned me before I had a chance to write it. When she asked me why I wasn't cooperating, I said it was like buying a party dress, wearing it several times, spilling champagne down the front, then returning it to Nordstroms, because they'll take back anything.

After a long silence, she asked when I'd planned to tell her that.

"When I figured out a polite way to write that in a letter."

May you all share in the joy of that one moment of justice.

She also told me that women will buy a dress for their daughter and return it after a week or so after being worn. They buy it for a party or some occasion. That's stealing!

may you live long and prosper.

It helped that I used to own a bunch of little clothing stores (in your neighborhood as a matter of fact). I got a lot of practice.

I can safely say I will never work retail again. Particularly not plants retail.

The reason that the big box stores have these exchange policies? To drive EACH and EVERY one of the small independents out of business as quickly as possible.

As soon as the independents are gone and they have no more competetion that liberal exchange policy is history and the customers have no one to thank but themselves. I have seen it already in the big chain store I worked at for 7 years.

My favorite retail job as far as dealing with customers was a family owned business that allowed us to be nasty to nasty customers. We sold art supplies and one crazy woman wanted to return used clay. She told me she had put it in her cleavage to soften it but it didn't work! When I said no I wasn't going to accept a return on clay that had nestled in her cleavage she got mad and said "You should be like Nordstom's. They will let you return tires and they don't even SELL tires!".

So I said "Well why don't you take this clay to Nordstrom's and see if THEY will give you your money back!"

Not here in Canada. I buy a lot of goods at Walmart and Home Depot precisely because I CAN take anyhting back withe zero hassle. That was the case 10 years ago and is still the case today. I rarely do return an item but the policy gives me the confidence to make the purchase. Not only was my computer about 2/3rds the price as the same computer elsewhere but when I asked about return policy the answer was 'no problem'...at our small computer store (now out of business) there was a 10% restock fee or equivalent in value.

A customer oriented garden center stands behind a return policy and uses it as a positive. A customer bringing back a $10 plant might walk out with another $100 purchase if the store is on the ball. Sure, Walmart might take back the pair of shoes but there's a good chance you'll be going back through the cashier with a half dozen items.

I don't mind folks knocking the box stores but often I find the reasons exagerrated and out to lunch. Our box stores have good service, great return policies and great prices. One can criticize their pushing out the small guy, exploiting labor, etc. but tens of millions of peoploe who go through the doors everyday aren't stupid.

No, just unable to shop elsewhere. Key phrases: declining wages, exporting of jobs, lack of alternatives...

If the mediocre plant departments such places have are all that is wanted, then I guess the competition they kill off isn't going to be missed. Likewise, the WalMart nearest here has a McDonald's in it. I guess it doesn't matter if the restaurants around it all dry up, too - the people in that neighborhood can just eat McDonald's every time they dine out.

We have hort departments at the box stores AND healthy garden centers. Two of the largest garden centers in our city have undergone major expansion this year.

My New England community is rich in mom-and-pop businesses of all kinds, including garden center, restaurants and retail shops. Anywhere there's a history, there will always be mom-and-pops. It's where "history" has to be created with prefab materials that there is nothing but barren Big Box wasteland.

"I don't mind folks knocking the box stores but often I find the reasons exagerrated and out to lunch."

Agreed.

They are what they are. Our outlets actually have certified hoticulturists and I have no qualms about the quality of plants. I'll buy from the big guys for my own stock for clients. A flat of marigolds is a flat of marigolds and a bag of vermiculite is a bag of vermiculite. I'll frequent smaller greenhouses for specialty items and plants I can't get elsewhere in the post rush season.

I was stopped dead in my tracks today when cruising the isles at the San Rafael CA, Home Cheapo , and lo and behold what did I see. ? ...

A hand written sign in the house plant section proclaiming " No returns on Orchids ".

Now , why didn't I think of that ? ... I could have had 365 days of fresh orchids decorating my house.

Crumbs, foiled again.
Guess I'll have to stock up on annuals instead.
: ~ )

To add, the nursery I work at specializes in native and unique plants, and grow our own, so our clientele is pretty swell from the git go. We do get newbies who want The Guarantee, though, and I patiently explain why our plants do well...no overfertilizing, grown on site, so ready to plant, etc. We deal with problems on a case to case basis, and will "work with you" on a problem.

As said in posts above, we work with the customer to give them the proper knowledge to site a plant correctly, spend a great deal of time to assure that. We also have a printed catalogue (a great labor of love), that goes into the hands of each customer, and a website re-iterating that info.

We have very few compaints of plants that don't thrive, both on-site sales and mail-order. Mainly, because we grow our own, select for good plants, and don't "hop" them up with chemicals. They are ready to get in the ground and grow.

After 3 weeks or so one of them didn't make it. I pulled it out of the ground and put it back in the plastic bag it came in and headed off to Lowe’s. We purchased them while I was buying other items so I just added them to the AR account.

When I tried to return them they asked for the receipt (which I have no idea which one it was on) I stated that I didn't have it with me and she promptly refuse the return. I asked her to look up my account and she simply said "It's not my rules" I was rather upset after all I've purchased in the store that they would not take back a $5.00 vine. And BTW no one else in town sells them.

Needless to say that pi$$ ed me off and in leaving the parking lot I backed my truck into someone’s trailer and broke my tail light. You're better off just not trying to return it.

And yes we do take returns. It’s just good practice and our customers appreciate it.

Thus we keep a customer, and the customer learns something and enhances their gardening experience, and tells others. We do very little advertising but we keep hearing about that people come here because of our reputation.

Once in a while, if we feel the customer is truly out of line, we make a decision to say.. "sorry, but no.." I believe in treating customers fairly, but we have to be fair to ourselves as well.

I bought a rear tine tiller at Sears. After an hour, I was discouraged that it popped out of gear about every 4 or 5 minutes. The guy said.. bring it back...

I got #2.. Went home, used it probably closer to 30 hours tilling things up.. and the belt wore out. I asked my inlaws to pick one up at sears on their way out, but there were none on the shelf. They ordered the belt to be in the mail in about 10 days. (um.. I need to till now..)

I called around to sears stores and service centers within a 100 miles and no one could swing me a belt (for sale or otherwise).. Finally, the guy at the store where I got is asked me when I picked the thing up.. it had been about 18 days ago.. so he said I should just bring it back..

So, I did.. and picked up #3.. I didn't have enough tilling left to wear out #3 within a month, so I guess this one is a keeper.

I guess in the 'big numbers game', this policy makes sense to them. I have no idea why you can't buy that belt off the shelf at sears.

Keep on obsessing.

I doubt I'll ever be highly successful, although my life has taken some pretty interesting turns, so who knows? Someday I may write a book or start my own plant company. For now, I'm just a nameless "plant lady" working for a company that treats me decently and getting paid to do what I love.

As for Home Depot, Lowes, Walmart soon enough they will give up too. I have talked to several growers that are already quitting the HD, Lowes, Walmart consignment policy. Now if walmart has to actually pay for what they sell I'm sure you won't see that huge pile of dead plants in the parking lot every year. Plus eventually these stores will stop taking the loss on their garden departments that add up to millions of doallars every year for them.

One of the trade magazines says people are starting to turn away from the big boxes and back to independent garden centers.