I see possible solutions to this as making a check-list of duties performed thhroughout the year but in a monthly format to be submitted with billing. It is a value recieved problem. If the concept is that I take care of the property year round and there will be months that I will work less hours or time and others that I will work more than that is what will need to be understood by the client and that this is a longer term not month to month pay as you need basis.
I ran into a similar problem years ago and lost the account because I did it more like you are doing now and someone else said they would do it for less money. I knew that over a year I was planning on making X amount an hour for my effort. I knew that there are certain spans of time that I would need to put in more time and other times where I would do less to allow for an average wage that I could live with and that is within the customers budget and would do the job to keep the property looking good throughout the year.

Hoourly rates on a as needed basis is like mention above an option. Does the client want to have a given budget per year prorated such as you have now or does the client want to have a as needed kind of relationship. The challenge for the gardener is I can only do so work during the time of year that requires more effort and I will allocate this time as long as it can be made up in the winter or slower time period. I guarantee to give the needed work no matter how many hours a month during those times and the client agrees that I will do less in time periods that require less to have it look good.

As a landscape company you have fixed costed whether you use the equipment or not through out the year. The customer is not charged more for a month that has you weedeater or mower or your company vehicle broken down but you need to have the resource to fix it and have it ready to go as needed. You still have to be able to provide for that equipment on demand and so doing monthly contracts prorated over the whole year are a means to do that but it does mean a higher degree of trust on the clients part that you will be there with the equipmnet and time to do the job when it needs to be done.

You are the landscaper and you need to know what hourly rate you can afford to do the job at period. Whether you do the job or your employees do the job.

I often find folks that don't recognize the skill that is needed and the overhead costs involved with a landscape company and they think that they should not pay 10.00 per hour for manual labor but that is not what they are paying for. They are paying for a skill landscape professional that knows what to do when to do it and how to do it and why it should or not be done and has all the equipment to do the job. Anything less than 20.00 per hour of actual work performed is not enough to cover all the other costs and you will lose money as a company. Anything over that and you have chance to make a living at it.

Now all that being said if this is a couple doing this and no employees are involved there may be some room for negotiation but there are a lot of hacks out there and if you want quality you pay for it.

Just rambling thoughts on the subject at hand. I for one am amazed at the amount of folks that think as a gardener that you are not entitled to a livable wage. Supply and demand is in play and in an area with an abundance of skilled workers in landscape there will be less money to made but I have seen this as rare and not the norm. Yes there are plenty of hacks out there and they are devaluing all of the true professionals in this business.

The hacks will always be there and you need to not undercut what your value is but it is your job to help your clients recognize the value that you offer by an accounting that they can relate to.

Good Luck and Happy Growing David

Here it's not unusual to get 40 dollars per hour - or more - for knowledgeable gardeners with hand tools. Even if someone is hiring a mow and blow outfit with big trucks and everything being topped, sheared and mowed in an ignorant fashion with power tools they are being charged enough to pay for all the expense that comes with outfitting and running that kind of operation. So, 400 dollars per month does not seem like much. Mow and blow outfits show up and buzz through a property and then take off after a comparatively short time, so the per visit charges for small properties may seem low to the customer, who may really be paying a rate of 100 dollars per hour or more.

You have to present yourself as a competent professional, and identify and hook up with clients who want that and are willing to pay for it. To get well started you must do something to make yourself known to your market, after that your main problem may soon be trying to work everyone into your schedule.

Dear Kkelly,

I too am a 'professional gardener.' I have one client that is always upset about the bill and as you mentioned is always questioning what I did as the place always looks perfect. I've been there four years and have yet to receive a single compliment such as 'thank you' or 'looks nice.'

If you can afford to do so, 'dump' this client. That's what I'm doing with my never ending complaining couple this spring. I have almost 40 other satisfied clients who at least have the class to say a simple thank you in person or in little notes (which I keep in my file cabinet) about how beautiful the garden looks or is coming along.

If you cannot afford to dump this client begin taking photos. My digital camera is a permanent fixture during the growing season. Periodically, through the different seasons I take before and after pictures of all my clients yards whether it be maintenance or an installation. This is my physical proof that I've been doing what I list on my invoices.

I would also establish some sort of monthly cap with him for the maintenance and materials.

Additionally, if the cap is not enough to cover the entire maintenance of the property establish a list with him of critical areas that will be worked on with some sort of schedule in mind.

For my pain in the neck client, I've been delegating certain landscaping chores like blowing the driveway and leaf raking to their handyman since he works per hour for a third of what I charge. This past year I refused to do anything outside of the garden beds and even then the two of them still found things to complain about.

Perhaps, this client will then see your true value when certain parts of the garden look less then perfect.

You are in business to make a decent living for yourself, not their to enable their lifestyle by cheapening your rate or making huge concessions because of their pettiness.

Good Luck and if you have any other questions feel free to email me personally.

If this is a year 'round service being budgeted out @ $600 per month, the question of value should be viewed as a cumulative of $7,200 for the year. It must have had a perceived value of that much at the outset when it was agreed to.

It is a front loaded contract (if it is spread evenly over the year as it sounds) in that the client realizes a greater value earlier in the season in terms of dollars per hour. You were not crying about putting in the extra time in the spring and summer were you? It does not sound like it.

The pay as you go system is not the worst thing. Imbalances are short lived.

If you are good at tooting your own horn there is plenty of work. This guy got a community college degree here and then went to a local Christian college and convinced the friars there they needed a grounds department. The rest is below.

Here is a link that might be useful: Ciscoe Morris

An old friend of mine left school at 14 and was employed as an apprentice gardener up at the "big'ouse" this was at the beginning of the 20th century. He told some horror stories about what it was like in earlier days for gardeners, never mind labourers and the respect they were shown by the owners. Many of the old ways had gone by the time Frank started work but on his first day the foreman told him that if he heard someone coming who spoke with a plum in his mouth he was to act as if he didn't exist. The head gardener was the only one allowed to speak to "'is lordship". From what I can understand of the situation working with the soil made someone the underclass, I am not convinced that this situation has changed that much.

In Victorian England the boys on the garden staff might find themselves sleeping each night on a board over the box everyone pooped into. They would also find themselves charged with cleaning that box. This consisted of shoveling it out and carting the contents elsewhere.

Adult gardeners, assigned to apply the harsh and rudimentary pesticides employed at the time called the sprayers used for the purpose "Widowmakers". The name is self-explanatory.

Ah, the Good Old Days.

Woof! One post explains the other, eh?
For the record, I've solved this for the moment by contacting the client by email the evening before the next day's visit to tell him what I plan to accomplish the following day. The monthly statement I send him now details what I do each week, which, incidentally, is the way I usually bill.
Thanks to all who understand what I'm getting at here. What a gardener does week to week, or month to month, is not always obvious. I can fertilize an ailing shrub, for example but it may be a month or more before the action has evident results. Weeds that are not obvious to the homeowner get pulled out before they become so. Pruning is done sparely, so improved shapes emerge over time. A client might not always perceive the value of these small tasks, until they aren't done.

Here is a link that might be useful: Gardening With Attitude

I've been on a first-time client pruning job (as an assistant) where we worked all day and piled the truck high. Later I found out the new customer had called and complained that they were being billed yet we had done nothing at all.

Non-gardeners may not "see" plants very well.

I think my employer ate the bill on that one. Years of experience later, I began to wonder if the "customer" actually made up not seeing the work, with the intention of getting out of paying for it. I never saw or spoke to them myself.

I do interior landscaping for a large office building. One guy kept complaining about his ficus tree, which was pretty ancient and getting thin. The replacement crew was busy, so we couldn't get to it for a while. A couple weeks after it was replaced with a completely different type of tree (a dracaena marginata), I asked the guy, "So how do you like your new tree?" He looked surprised and said, "Oh, is it new? I hadn't noticed." This is in his OFFICE, where he supposedly works everyday. And it's a 6 foot tree! Talk about oblivious!

Before future gardeners take an interest, plants are mostly just shapes in the background. People who never take an interest may never notice many of their individual characteristics.

And then there are the places I've been working for years, where someone stops me and says, "Oh? Are those real? I always thought they were plastic!" I try to take that as a compliment, they never notice yellow or brown leaves!

There has been a phrase coined for this sad phenomenon, by, if I remember correctly, a professor from Louisiana State University. It is called 'plant blindness.' People tend to see plants as a fuzzy green background instead of as individuals. Part of the blame is the lack of emphasis on flora in schools. Teachers, and I guess students, are much more interested in learning about animals, and therefore spend darned little time talking about botany. I guess I'm guilty, too. I can't tell you the number of times I have failed to 'see' a certain species until something calls my attention to it. Then, I see them everywhere, and lo and behold, they've been right there all along!
Bboy, is is too bad your employer had to eat that job. (If he did.) That experience just underscores the importance of taking before and after pictures, which someone had suggested earlier in this thread. (Especially a picture of the truck piled high.) And watergal, you comment reminds me of an ad I saw yesterday in an old magazine. The ad had something to do with allergies, and sources thereof, but an arrow pointed to a six foot dracaena and labeled it as a yucca! I wanted to rip the magazine in two!

Here is a link that might be useful: Plant Blindness

It seems that you didn't relate to my understanding of your question regarding the perceived value of a gardener. Why do you think young people are reluctant to accept gardening as a career? The perceived value of a gardener is well known.
I hesitate to be too cynical, especially as this is the field I dig in but I know that you would have more success with clients such as this if you were their equal, or perceived to be. What this means is that if you present yourself as someone who does physical labour you have relinquished your position. Physical labour has no perceived value.

Yep. Need to always come across as professional gardener and hook up with people who are looking for that. You provide skilled work and in return will be getting paid (and treated) accordingly.

I got a telephone query today where right off they asked my rates, found out what they were, thanked me for my time and moved on. Short and simple, suits me. Every time I have become involved in a work situation where there was some compromising aspect to it, like lower hourly rates or delayed payment, it turned out to be a burn in the end. Never let anyone talk you into under-valuing yourself, including friends!

KKelly, hopefully the client will see your value as the spring wears on. I think doing photos as you go is a great recommendation, I do find though that the people who actually look at the photos for more than a glance ar those who appreciate plants and the work involved in keeping them up, so that may be a mute point.

As I was reading the posts, my thought was 'just go hourly with this client' but you have solved that problem already.
You know it will balance out throughout the year ( pocketbook wise )and the client may finally see the value of going monthly when he is getting 800+ bills in the summer.

I know its a pain, but I do try to keep a work log and write a note or 2 before I leave a place, or at least each night. ( ok sometimes I am trying to remember the notes from last week) but thats also a great way to bill, give them the list of things done each week.

good luck with spring! deb

Hmm. I would be curious to know how I am perceived by my customers, Ink. I think I'll ask them!

I promise I perceive myself as the queen of the world. I am completely happy in my role as gardener, humble though it may be, and I believe happy people have no equals. Certainly rich doesn't trump happy! (Rich and happy, that's where we all want to be)

Difficult customers may be operating from preconceptions and experiences that have nothing to do with you. You have to meet their demands with an accommodation that resolves the situation or "fire" them. They may, of course, replace you with another service before then if sufficiently displeased. Some parties work their way through a long series of gardening services, even landscape architects without ever sticking with one long enough to develop a lasting relationship or a fully completed project. Lots of different people have landscaped properties that they hire help with, all with their own ideas and tendencies. Someone with a wide experience of a large number of gardening and landscaping accounts could surely right an analog to All Creatures Great and Small, maybe All Gardens Great and Small.

Sorry I am late to this discussion, but I have had this same problem before. Its great to spread the income out throughout the season with a contract, and at first I tried to get all of my clients to do contracts. Then I realized I really liked to work for the clients with whom I did not have a contract better because I wasn't constantly worrying about justifying the contract.

Most of my clients are absolutely great and although they may not "see" what I do on a daily basis, they appreciate the overall effect ("the perfection in my wake" - well maybe not exactly). And for that reason I love working for them.
All it takes is one bad apple though to sour my whole season, probably because I worry about it too much.

Like BBoy, I have started to quote my hourly rate right off the bat, and appreciate when people move on and save me the trouble of justifying something they will not value or "see".

BTW, I comment you on your excellent and VERY professional response to this client.

kkelly, I've been rereading this thread for awhile now, and wanted to finally thank you for making the post in the first place. Your reply to Mr L was so reasoned and well-written; it gave explanation to things I have experienced in my own work but couldn't quite put my finger on. I have always been of the opinion that--unless it's the first time I start work at a new place--they shouldn't really notice that I have even been there. If you have a live-in maid you shouldn't notice when the house has been cleaned: it should always BE clean. In the past I felt nervous/accused when a client thought I didn't show up for work, when I'd been there all day and carted away a dozen bags of debris. I felt I had to justify myself even though I HAD been doing my job, and they were probably being unobservant about their own yard. This thread has given me some new words to use with those types of clients and has solidified my work ethic. It's also helped to establish expectations when I speak with new clients, so I'm feeling more at ease already going into a new season!

I tried working on a contract basis in the beginning then I realized, after a customer asked me to put her garbage out for her, that they will ask for a lot more to be done if they are on contract. Then when I started charging by the hour it went the other way. "Oh no, I can do that myself." Also, the ones on contract would talk half the day and expect you to rush through your day to get the work done. I try to keep a small spiral binder in my tool bag and note every single little thing I do. It's a hassle but it keeps the 'complainers' satisfied.

I think the best customers I have are the ones that have had other gardeners that didn't do their jobs properly. They appreciate my work and usually let me know how much they 'value' me.

Make the contracts more detailed. That's the purpose of a contract, spelling everything out so there is no basis for misunderstanding - everyone is clear on what will be given and what will be taken. Working by the hour implies that you are available for a certain period of time for whatever may be wanted during that time - including putting out the garbage or shooting the breeze. I interviewed for a gardening job once where the description included taking the tenant's luggage to their car.

Hi everybody!
I just wanted to give a little update. It is June now, and this customer has been pleased with the progress on his property. Not that I've done anything real obvious other than make good use of his account at the local nursery every week... and a little snipping here and there, pulling weeds and seedlings that never get big enough to notice, and feeding the soil in the beds with compost.

Of course, all you who also do this for a living know I've done a LOT more than the little I remember at the moment.

Special thanks to Rachael z6, who is the one soul who really
'got' what I was trying to say. You expressed what I was trying to say perfectly!

It was never about the money, or contract, it was about being in a profession in which the inherent value is being subtle and largely unnoticed.

Happily, this customer called last night with kudos, and the news that he is raising my monthly rate. That is lovely, but I realize there is also something to say about the 'perceived value' of my customer. He NOTICES! That, my friends, is a rare and special thing!

The customer is raising your monthly rate?

He notices AND he pays more too? Wow. He's a keeper!

I know! I know!

Been there. Last summer I was hired by a client for several projects ,one was to untangle several old climates vines in a bed that had been invaded by a weed vine and was covering everything in the bed. As you can imagine this was a painstaking job. He freaked over the amount of labor this took.He came and went watching me work away and kept asking "Are you having a fun time?" I work at a quick pace naturally but one careless yank on this one and there goes the climates. I found it interesting that a job he wasn't willing or capable to do he wanted me to do for a wage you don't need an education, experiance or even the english language to get that kind of money for. I pay my lovely non- english speaking cleaning lady more! I truely value her help. I do know how to clean but I just don't have the time so I hire her occasionaly and don't try to give her half at the end of the job. I did do before and after photos which helped as I tooted my own horn over the thourough job I did. Here is where the rub comes. As he grumbled and tried to make me feel like I ripped him off, the real value of my work didn't appear until this spring. I drove by the house recently and saw his fence covered in blossoms from the 6 climates vines I saved. In retrospect I might have suggested just ripping it all out and buying new vines which may have taken less time but cost just as much for the new plants and I think he would have been ok with the same or higher amount. I am a true gardener and not a buisness lady at heart however and and saw 15 year old big vines and I thought they were worth saving. I learned a lot from this job. I really try to feel out how much the client enjoys the garden or knows about gardening. If they place little value or take small notice of the garden except when something is wrong then they will not value you or notice your contribution to their garden. I don't need for a client to be knowledgable about gardening but simply to have an appreciation for it. I try really hard now to weed out clients who would be better off with the mow and go style and price tag. It's not a perfect system but people who are better clients seem to value me even more when I am willing to say I don't mind if they need to hire someone for less but this is what my work is worth. If they let me go then I think I have dodged a job I would later regret. Good luck

Here the mow and blow outfits are actually charging homeowners something like 100 dollars per hour or more - but they often mow, blow and go in a very short time. So the individual customer doesn't get the same bill as a 40 dollar per hour gardener working for multiple hours doing detail work.

You might like to know that the plant is a Clematis rather than a "climates".

I am a home gardener that has been trying for several years to hire a "Professional Gardener". So far I have not had any luck. The "mow and blow" guys you talk about in this post don't want to do anything more than that. I need a gardener to weed, trim and do whatever else it takes to maintain my garden. If any of you professionals know a professional gardener in St. Petersburg, kindly give them my email address.

Elaine

Depending on what elements are present in your garden if you are not averse to the use of herbicides a regular maintenance contractor could in fact be suitable. The trick is finding one who knows what is needed to service your account. College-level education could be a good filter. A friend here who I met through the local community college will be retiring soon from decades of maintaining commerical and residential properties with power equipment and pesticides. In the latter part of his career he has even been teaching landscaping courses at the school.

Even big fancy gardens in England, with thousands of kinds of plants organized in elaborate plantings are being kept going through the use of herbicides.

I'm not a "nozzle-head" myself and seldom spray herbicides anymore but in the market here for instance anyone who really knows anything will be getting something like 40 dollars per hour or more for skilled gardening. Hours and hours of hand-weeding and other slow work could really add up.

Thank you bboy for your thoughts. I grow daylilies (LOTS of daylilies) which all have plant stakes with the name of the cultivar, the name of the hybridizer and the year of registration. I am the only one allowed to maintain the daylily beds because it is imparative to not remove or mix up the plant tags. I have these beds under control as I put down Snapshot as each bed became weed free and this has worked very well for me. I also have a large ground cover area planted in Blue Eyed Grass that I am trying to get established and that area is my present problem. I did hire a maintenance contractor that used herbicides and he killed 427 Blue Eyed Grass plants so I am not looking to go down that road again! I have replaced all those plants and I'm struggling to get ahead of the weeds. I put an ad in the paper to hire someone to help me at least get ahead of the weeds in the ground cover and I will put the snapshot on there too and maybe for a change I will be ahead of the weed game!

Elaine

As a consumer of personal services, and as a service provider myself (not of gardening services), I am very glad to see how this worked out. I don't think it was out of line - if awkward, assuredly on both sides - for your client to raise the questions/comments. One thing I learned in my years as a private practice service provider is that a crucial skill is not merely doing a fantastic job, but making sure your clients (or in my current corporate world speak, your "stakeholders") are aware of what you are doing. It makes them feel good and that they don't have to wonder, which they may do either because of prior bad experiences, lack of experience, personality quirks, or just a solid, reasonable desire to know they are spending their funds wisely. This is business, and those who anticipate this sort of thing will have smoother days and happier customers. I don't think managing that part of the relationship is necessarily a natural skill for many/most of us/people in business, so if you do that with your clients, you will stand out, and the reward will be a lot of enthusiastic customers and TRUST between you and each of them. So congrats on its working out well - I was worried when I saw the advice to dump the client immediately!

Parting ways with customers where there is difficulty presenting itself is done by those who have packed schedules and can pick and choose. Or have other reasons why they don't have to fight it. Gardening businesses are one of those where many of the people running them aren't looking to expand their operations indefinitely. There is always some turnover but when growing into a big business is not one of the objectives there may not be a need to covet and cosset every prospect as another potential building block to bigness.