Could you give a general description rather than the specific plant? "Well, there are several choices, but I'd like to see a deciduous summer blooming shrub."

Are these people taking notes? Most of the folks I talk to don't know enough plant material to remember what I said once they get inside!

Well, here's one approach i admire:

"The sensitive landscape professional refuses to be turned out in the front yard like a dog while his client holds him on a leash demanding, ÂWhat would you do here? Make me a pool under that tree. Instead he wanders into the house to see what kind of books she reads, what kind of furniture and bric a brac she gathers about her. He gets her talking about her travels and the places she likes best and ones she does not like. He probes to discover, not what she has, but what she dreams of having; not what she does, but what she would like to do."

Fletcher Steele

Keep doing exactly what you are doing Ms. Rumphius, and never doubt yourself or your talent.

You could verbalize your design till the cows come home but nobody is going to be able to create your special brand of magic unless your hand touches it.

Give 5 people the exact same plot of land, the exact same groupings of plants and hardscape materials with the exact same project brief, and you will get 5 completely different interpretations.

Yack it up, its good for business and it endears you to your clients .

yackey yack ( a yak is related to a cow isn't it ? ) it all the way to the bank.

I agree 100% with Mich!

I never hold back anything in a consultation. The more they hear the more they know it is something they need me to do for them.

Words alone are of little value. They can read this forum, go to the library, or whatever. When it come down to really wanting to get what you have to offer, a reasonable person is going to either want you or somebody else.

Only a fool will think that they needed you in the first place, yet feel gifted enough to suck out all of your knowledge in an hour and can be you.

Do any of us really believe that we are so gifted that we have something of huge value that can be conveyed so easily? I like to think that I am not. That way I can never feel robbed when I leave without getting a sale.

The beauty of a free consultation is that when you get that gut feeling its going nowhere, you can split at any time.

So when someone hires Miss Rumpus or Mich, they're buying a cow? I won't ask about the milk.

Though I work in a different designing trade (web sites & databases), I use the same approach. First meeting is about talking, no charge, as ans mentioned before talking for free makes it easier to tell them "not interested" when you get the itch to run. The goal is finding out enough about what they want to do to come up with a way to present as a whole plan what they are trying to ask for peicemeal. Same idea applies to calls after the plan is presented to work out clarifications, I'm paid to sling code, as long as the talking isn't on the technical details (e.g. walking someone thorugh how to buy a domain name), I'll gab for free.

I yack plenty, and I think what appeals the most to the people who end up hiring me, is my enthusiasm. Getting excited about every project, no matter how small, is important. The combination of knowledge/skill and enthusiasm is a winning one.

Ron,
Have you looked at the price of milk lately ?

( wink )
: ~ )

Sorry, no, I haven't kept abreast of it. And why is Cady talking about ya(c)ks, I thought it was cows?

I think avoiding bad apples + projecting enthusiasm are the important points. The potential customer sells themself to you and you to them.

Why are you talking udder nonsense??

I think that I will have my coffee black this morning.

As an interiorscaper, I run into this occasionally with residences. They'll have a housefull of plants that they don't know how to care for, and they're not sure if hiring someone is the way to go. They often ask specific questions about specific plants. I give them the general basics. Really, that's all I can do anyway. I let them know if they're overwatering, the room isn't lit well enough etc. But at the same time, I reiterate that if they hire us, their plant troubles just...disappear! ;)

You have a great concern here. I'm on the consumer end of this and will offer up my 'doings' and hopefully you can gather some wisdom from the experience.

We built our house on an acre last summer becuase we can't afford to write a check to some guy who builds homes. We finished in November, so all the lawn and etc.. is going to happen in spring 2005.

Well, all winter the lawn seeding companies circled like vultures over a dead rat, and rather than tell them straight up that I can't afford a landscaper to seed/sod my lot, I let them pitch the sale.

They protected the goods pretty well up front, but basically then after the speel was over, I'd start digging at the edges.. When could you start seeding? I found out that no earlier than April 1, it's too cold before that, let the frost out of the ground.. but don't wait until may or june, you want a head start on the weeds... 'check'

So, what kind of seed are you going to plant? Whatever you want as a customer.... but typically we seed.. xyz.. because....

Some would pitch erosion netting, and here's why.. keeps the ground temp warmer, the birds can't eat the seed, helps runoff to not make gouges if you get a big rain.

One firm guaranteed the lawn.. if I kept it watered and did fertilizer once ayear... They'd come back forever .. if I had grubs, dead spots, gouges from runoff right after they seeded it.. I asked.. If you use no eroision netting, how can you afford to come fix all my runoff problems? He said that they seed so much seed that the ground literally pops up as turf within a week. After that, no problems. *ding, light comes on in my head, seed a lot of seed*..

In the end, I seeded about 6 pounds per 1000sqft of a very high quality pure kentucky bluegrass, seeded over it with about 2 pounds/1000 annual rye (to come up fast and hold the dirt while the blue gets established), and did put down erosion matting to hold the dirt, for all those reasons above. It worked great.

I spent about $3500... The bids were mostly in the $7500 range.

We couldn't afford to pay any of them. If I had a buddy in the industry, I'd have asked him what to do to get it to work so well, but since I didn't, this worked great.

I wish you much success in your business and hope you can see through my experience some ways to guard agaisnt giving out the final answer for free.

As a newbie I still feel I have to keep my hand close to the vest though don't I?
I understand Susan's concerns...Now as I approach a potential client, I feel a little guarded about what I give up. The last thing i want to come across as is just a sounding board for their yard without gaining,somewhere along the line, actual work. I know Mich and Laag have their experiewnce to feel their way through the consultation and to know if this particular person is going to hire them or not. Unfortunately, I don't have that same level of comfort in the whole process.

You all have the homogenized level of comfort....whereas Im still at 2%:)

Neil

If you feel this is a dilemma, might you consider charging for your time? I generally do charge for an initial consultation, especially if it is not a referral from a previous client. I also try to give good value for the money spent, with quick sketches, plant lists, recommendations of good local nurseries, etc. I agree that enthusiasm counts for alot, but previous familiarity with your work counts for even more. If a potential client balks at spending money up front, but otherwise seems to be a serious candidate, I will give them references and gardens designed and installed by me that they can visit for themselves. If you project uncertainty at charging for a consultation, the potential client will also pick up on this. I might have a different attitude if I was in need of building up more business, but I have plenty as it is, so I prefer to charge something as a measure of the value of my time. I'd suggest that a uniform approach isn't practical, and you should adjust it as to what works in your market and with your own personality.

Landman,

As a newer person doing this it is more important for you to demonstrate your knowledge and confidence. And if you think that you are a little green, how can you think that you can be giving away great value through your words alone? Yes, you might enlighten them to some good concepts, but concepts are the easy part. The value is in the built landscape. They had concepts going into it and they still are looking for someone who will make things happen. If you are holding back until you get the job, it gives the feeling that you value job more than they do. Then, they own you. If you do not appear to need the job as much as they need you, you own them. You'll get them interested, they'll follow your reasoning, and they will get the feeling that you know way more about it then they ever will and your hired.