Hi Cody,

I'm going to throw out some ideas - some of them may sound blunt, please remember that I don't know you or how you come across, these are just some random thoughts (coming from a 40-something-woman who has been hired by several garden centers and related horticultural industries)...

"i've put applications in at every greenhouse and garden center in my area. i've had several interviews, but have gotten turned down for everything so far..."

Timing is CRUCIAL! Most of the hiring is done in anticipation of the spring season, when lots of help is needed. Often, if you show up then (around here, that's somewhere between February and mid-March), you can get hired pretty easily. The rest of the year, it's a lot tougher. Most of the jobs are seasonal, from March through June or so. Take a seasonal job to get a foot in the door, and then bust your butt to show them how wonderful you are. They just might decide to keep you around. Most of the people start as grunts and work their way up through the ranks if they stick around long enough (and if their bodies don't give out).

You obviously have a lot of real world experience and are well on your way to your degree. I don't think that is holding you back. In fact, I'm wondering if you might be coming across as a little TOO knowledgeable? Let's face it, no one wants to hire a know-it-all, they want someone who will fit in and do what they're told. When I was working at a garden center, we had an applicant come in and go on and on and ON about his master gardener credentials. The way he did it was so arrogant that it turned everyone off. The position he was applying for basically just required unloading trucks and running a cash register, it was overkill anyway.

"i admit i'm not the best at interviews, but that can't be the reason for all of the rejections can it?" Uh, yeah. Unfortunately, you have to impress on the interview to get the job. What do you think are your weaknesses on an interview? There are often community resources (or school resources) that can coach you on how to dress and give you mock interviews to make you more comfortable with the process. For garden center jobs, I usually go with a polo shirt, khakis, and decent but sensible shoes. Obviously, you don't want to show up in a business executive suit or your grungiest work clothes, but I imagine you know that.

"at one place i interviewed for two hours and when i called the next week i got hung up on." Two hours seems like a very long time for an interview, unless you met with a whole bunch of different levels of management at a big company. You must have done something to impress them to keep you there that long (unless you just wouldn't shut up and they couldn't get rid of you). And you must have done something to annoy them, or they wouldn't just hang up on you. Can you think of anything that might have made them act this way?

"Another place told me they don't hire males for their garden center." That seems odd, too, unless they are sexist pigs. It's also illegal to discriminate in hiring based on sex, you could probably sue them just for saying that.

"i find it very frustrating that i have all the knowledge and experience that i do and i get passed over for 40 year old women who just garden in their spare time. i tried a few landscapers, but they only want physical labor and what i'm really interested in is growing and design."

Again, I'm wondering if you are coming off as TOO self-assured. No one knows everything, certainly not at age 26. The more you learn, the more you will realize you don't know. Everyone would rather be a designer than a grunt laborer, I'm sure, but the reality is that there are only a few chiefs and many Indians! If you're really interested in design, work a summer or two as a laborer with a landscaping company. If you're physically up to the work, you'll get a job and you'll learn something (if you're willing to work for the same wages as the other laborers, that is). If you're really interested in growing, hire on really early in the year with a production greenhouse, do the grunt work of actually growing the plants. Glorious? No. Foot in the door? Yes!

I'm trying not to take the 40 year old women remark personally, but hey, we've got an extra couple of decades of "hands-on experience". A lot of us are also willing to work part-time without benefits, because we are trying to juggle raising a family with working.

"i've thought about opening my own greenhouse, but i don't have investors or the money for startup. i want to get a few years experience with a larger, established company before striking out on my own."

Maybe employers are sensing this? No one wants to invest a lot of time and money into an employee, only to have them turn around, take all their trade info, and become a competitor.

Does your school offer internship opportunities? That could be a good way to get some work experience with less pressure than the normal interview process. Also, I have found in this industry, that once you have a little experience in the field, you are a WHOLE lot more marketable.

Good luck!

i'm aware of the timing thing. i put in the applications starting in january. most gh jobs around here are seasonal, so i'd be willing to do that. i'm not overly interested in landscaping, which is why i'm more relunctant to accept manual labor, but i do want to be well rounded.

i didn't think it was possible to be too knowledgable, but apparently it is, at least for some things. especially if they just want cheap labor. i try to come across as self confident, as opposed to arrogant, but i guess it is a fine line.

they took me on a tour of all the buildings and fields while asking questions. the only question that i didn't know the answer to was a plant that i didn't know what it was. after he told me the name i googled it and it didn't come up at all, so i don't know if i misspelled it or if he mispronounced it?

i know i don't know everything. i am aware of my shortcomings, but this is all i've ever wanted to do. i was probably one of a few 10 year olds that could spout off botanical latin and tell you what the names meant. i don't have very many other interests or hobbies. so maybe i'm coming off as a little too intense? i'm not sure.

the forty year old woman comment wasn't meant to insult anyone, but if you were to walk into any of the places here the only exceptions are the owners and the owners children. perhaps they're the ones with most interested in growing and have older children?

having my own nursery is in my ten year plan. i just want employers to realize i do have goals and want to learn as much as i can. all i've been trying to do is gain the experince, thats what this whole post was about

I know I hire by happenstance and by chance. I never seem organized enough to know how many people I will need. I always have a hiring preference for those who actually take the trouble to come here looking for a job.
I've received some really impressive resumes over the years, but really, all I care about is whether the candidate can and will do the work I need done.
I like to see the prospect's face. I'm really not interested in someone who just mails a resume or telephones to ask if we have any openings. If they can't show any interest in our nursery, then I have no interest in them.
I prefer local workers, because, frankly, our pay scale is not very high, and I don't want people who have to drive for miles and miles to get here.
Most of our employees start with seasonal, part-time work - often just a few days a week. As we get to know, like and trust them, hours are expanded, as are their duties.
We have had a few people here who worked for a few weeks only, because they intended to start their own business and decided to steal our sources. It may be that prospective employers suspect that from you.
Two of my best workers, a married couple, do intend to start their own nursery. They have always been honest about that. It works for all of us and, one day, I hope to do business with them.
Because we are all stuck in a confined area together in late winter, employees must be cheerful and compatible. I don't care what they wear - we're all going to get dirty anyway- but I do care that they have fastidious personal habits. It's surprising how many people with perpetually running noses and body odour think they would be happy at a nursery.
My best employees keep the profitability of the nursery foremost. They understand that the more money the nursery makes, the better the pay scale. Our worst employees seemed to think that if the nursery enjoyed a good, busy day, that they should partake in any profits immediately. That day or week.
As far as interviews, there is an easy technique for doing better at them. Take a few hours to think of the common questions you have been asked. Write them in a list, and then ask a friend or relative to interview you using those questions. Ask them to throw in a few ringers too. You will become more and more comfortable with the procedure and eventually do very well at an interview. It just takes practise.
During an interview, try and concentrate on what you can do for the nursery and let them know. Being able to grow orchids might not be very important at a nursery that specializes in bedding plants.
I hope this helps and that you find a job you like. Good luck.

>the reality is that there are only a few chiefs and many IndiansDing!

And it is true that middle-aged women have become prominent in garden centers. Not only are they often staffing them they are also a big part of the market, the core group being middle-aged professionals shopping for a few plants to dress up their first house.

You've gotten some good feedback :-) And too, it may be valid to consider the economy as well......the nursery industry is suffering from the same economic pressures as are other businesses and since nursery dollars are by and large entirely discretionary, business is off. I've heard reports as much as a 65% decline in business for the 2009 season in some areas, much less in others. Reduced sales results in less hiring.

And while it's always valuable to have horticultural knowledge in a retail sales position at a garden center, it is often far less necessary than having good customer relations skills. Perhaps potential employers sense something in your approach/personality they feel may be offputting to their customers.......just something to consider.

And previous experience counts for a lot. Unfortunately, that doesn't often translate to personal experience gardening, running your own greenhouse or even educational background but rather the actual experience gained from paid employment within the field. When few jobs are available, employers are going to look first for those that have previously done that same work successfully.

I'd keep trying :-) Look for internships with growers or botanical gardens - these are typically available for students and while both temporary positions and low paying, they can at least get your foot in the door for some practical industry experience. Another alternative I've heard can be successful is to offer your services free of charge for a specified period of time - a trial volunteer position, if you will - with the understanding that at the end of this time frame, you'd have proved your value and would be considered for a paid position. With the financial pressures off, potential employers may be willing to give you a try to see how you work out. I've known frustrated new job seekers try this approach in other industries but don't see why it couldn't work in the nursery industry as well. It may be too late in the season to try it this year, but a possibility for next.

I really empathise with you and know how frustrating this must be. I own a small family-run operation. I get resumes and sometimes impressive ones. I always call them or write them and offer suggestions of where they may apply for the best chance of getting hired. When I have hired out, I simply use an agency, because I know that any job I have to offer will be short-term and cease when they are no longer needed.

The bulk of the positions in garden centers and independent nurseries are entry level. Your goal does not appear to be for an entry level position. Most of the advancement in our local businesses are through the ranks and therefore the openings shall always be entry level. There is a general consensus among those who hire that someone who is well qualified will not stick it out in entry level positions. I know........I know. This isn't always right and it's not fair. But it does exist. I got on in an entry level position when I decided to get back in to the hort field. And I'm embarrassed to admit it, but I dumbed it down considerably to get that job. I needed that job for the experience only an inside job can give you if you ever plan on opening your own green business.

I had to laugh at your remarks at forty year old women getting all the jobs. When I was hiring through an agency, one year that's what I got. They were laid off from factory jobs and scared that their age would work against them. Best damned workers I ever had and just stuffed full of good work ethics. I had to practically drag them out of the hot greenhouses to take their mandatory breaks. I wrote them the best letters of reference I could compose.

The flip side of the coin is this. Once you get near completing your degree you'll get hiring help. You will be looking at a lot different areas than retail sales and the people interviewing you will be wanting a resume like yours. Your liability will then be an asset.

What positions are you interviewing for? Are they true entry level positions or are they more than that?

One thing that often gets overlooked in this industry is that there are great numbers of people who have been interested and self educating in it from very young ages. You are one of those, but you have to know that you are one of many. It is very easy to look at your own experience and view it as a strong background as it may well be. But, it is easy to forget that hiring choices are made by comparison with others looking for the same position.

You are still only an entry level job candidate as are the many, many, other candidates with similar backgrounds. These are non-quantifiable resume items with the exception of the Associates Degree which you do not yet have.

Hiring is more about matching a person to a position much more than it is about counting points on a resume and awarding the job to whomever has the most points. If you are emphasizing skill sets and knowledge that is for a position that is unavailable, there is a posibility that you would not have the prefered working relationship to the person(s) in that position. That isn't good for anyone.

Think about what those "40 year old women" might be bringing into the job as far as experience goes. You want to count your own non-professional gardening experience as being a strong background, but would you not count the same for these people with 16+ years of experience. You don't know if any of them have Associates Degrees, Master Gardener's Certificates, Bachelor's Degrees, or Phds.

Finally, every work place has its own culture. Some of those evolve one way or another to have a certain makeup that makes for a comfort level for those who work within it. If you or I don't seem to fit into that culture it may be disruptive. Work is often the biggest social interaction in a person's life and disrupting that can be devistating sometimes. Employers are very aware of this.

I am really enjoying seeing all the other responses of people who are already on the inside of hort jobs, looking out. Don't be too quick to discount what you are hearing Cody, because we are the people who would be interviewing you. I think everyone made excellent points. I am curious as to why you are getting a degree in environmental science if you are wanting to get in a greenhouse business. Yes, I know they are related, as I have done coursework in engineering geared toward the same thing, it is translatable, but when I was taking them, working in hort was the last thing on my mind.

Just rambling here, but I once got a phone call asking for an interview from a young man who was pretty much in your shoes. He was also frustrated. Alls I could hear was how he grew a hundred and fifty thousand poinsettias when on internship for a major wholesale grower. Fine, I grow poinsettias. Yes, I am aware that gives you some experience.........but.........

You would never grow more than a few thousand at a crack if you worked for me. I've grown them for 23 years and have forgotten more than you know, lol. You grew them over one season. Each season is unique with its own problems. You don't know that yet. As I gently tried to explain to him he needed to go elsewhere, I could hear the anger in his voice. He just wanted a job so bad, that he couldn't understand why I wouldn't want to hire him. It was more for him than me. It was not a good fit and he'd be gone as soon as a good fit came, and the time he spent with me (whether he would admit it or not) would not be productive time, it would be time he'd be learning. And then as soon as I got him about where I wanted him, he'd be gone.

If I were a potential employer in Michigan I'd ask:
- do you have any on the job experience?
- have you ever supervised personnel?
- do you speak Spanish?
- what kind of operator's license do you have?
- do you have a pesticide applicator's license?
- can you change belts, tires, sharpen blades?
- how do you remove the snowload off the g/h in Michigan?
- do you want to retail? How much marketing have you done?
Don't take it the wrong way but the orchid society and master gardener stuff will not impress your boss. Suppose you were the boss, you would want to know "what can you do for me" right?

Yep: You always either have to create your own situation, either by starting your own operation (the usual way) or by convincing an existing operation they need you and what you want to do (not so usual but not unheard of), or you have to conform to what they are already looking for.

And it's normal to go though numbers of interviews before someone bites.

Especially now.

And yes, a bad performance at interviews can slam doors. If you even suspect that this might be an issue, you might consider an appointment with a career counselor for some help along that line.

Great advice in this thread!

Learn humility.

Do your homework. Spend a half day in their place of business seeing waht people do.

The things most managers look for:
* Does he do what he's told?
* Does he arrive on time?

If he has customer contact:
* Is he polite?
* Is he dressed for the task, and clean.

Ulitmately every employee has one job: Make his boss look good.

Ask for a 1 week trial working on the floor as a gopher, on the basis that at the end of the week, if the boss isn't satisfied, he doesn't cut you a pay cheque.
Explain that you don't interview well.

In general the hort business is VERY conservative. Very little of the common practice is available in books except in the most general sense.

More than likely it's the time of the year where bosses are laying off help because the lack of business.
All nurseries are very physical. The faster you get things done the better.
Who can afford someone physically challenged unless they're a gifted designer.
Are you fat?

Yes: look for retail nursery work during winter. Spring is the big season, much hiring takes place in preparation for the coming push.

Some of the things you've listed as assets really don't transfer over to a real working environment. Not to say that they won't make you money later on when you go on to open your own business. Hydridizing and growing orchids isn't exactly what most garden centers do in the spring!
I'd rather know that a person understands the proper amount of water to keep in pots of various kinds of plants, knows how to scout for whiteflies, aphids. Keeps water hoses out of the way so that customers don't trip on them. Friendly to customers and can make a sale if needed. Will clean up things and help keep displays full and nice looking, deadheading plants, etc. Be humble and helpful!
Definitely try again and focus more during the interview on useful practical things you can do than on the technical things you've learned. The only thing that the master gardener program has helped me with is networking, so that's not a big selling point unless you mention that you can really spread the word to your other mg's about the great greenhouse you're working at now, and help drive sales there.