Weeds... any plant, domestic or wild, that grows where you don't want it.

I eat mine. The ones that I can't eat, my chickens, ducks and geese eat. My turkey eats the seeds. Some I just leave alone because they look nice where they are.

Perry-
You ARE one of the eloquent and concise writers on this forum, plus being poetic . . .

I have been trying to incorporate information about the life cycle and growth habits of weeds into our plan of attack, rather than just jumping in and pulling stuff out.

That means convincing the customer that sometimes we need to wait. For instance, we used to take poison ivy out anytime. Now we wait 'til Sept. to cut the stems or trunks and paint them with Roundup(although I just learned that Garlon is the preferred herbicide to use - it requires less by volumne and fewer applications as it is more effective; this is the herbicide in brush eradicators like Brush-B-Gone). The plant is still growing so the herbicides are taken in and translocated to the roots. Then, in Oct., just after the first frost, we go in to dig out the roots. At this point the ivy is weakened not only by the herbicide, but by its own dormancy. (We can't wait too long, however, because it is uncomfortable enough taking out poison ivy; when you add cold temperatures it equals unhappy workers!) We took out a big section of PI on a property last season using these techniques. I will be interested to see how successful we were.

Also have heard that some towns and states are actually renting out flocks of sheep and goats to eat the poison ivy in large public areas!! That's a novel approach to weed control!

I agree with Cady that tolerating weeds to an extent is a good method of psychological weed control. Viewing some as functional; garlic mustard, for instance, is apparently very nutritious. So when you grub out this invasive, save some for the greens pot. Viewing others as aesthetically pleasing; dandelions and bluets in the lawn or giant mullein and Queen Anne's Lace in the flower bed.

In looking for less labor intensive methods of weed control, this coming season I am going to try to use smothering techniques. Black plastic or layers of wet newspaper covered with straw or a decorative mulch so it does not look too ugly for the homeowner while we wait for the weeds to die. Removing fibrous rooted weeds by hand using sod stripping techniques is very expensive for the homeowner and sometimes prohibitive. When they see the estimate, they decide to forgo restoring that part of the garden. Maybe these techniques will allow those additional beds to be made in weed infested areas of a garden renovation.

I could go on and on about weeds. This is one of the most important parts of gardening to my way of thinking and one that is often understudied. I have lots of other thoughts as this thread continues. Would like to hear of methods others have found useful, with an eye to particular species. I guess I would be most interested in very detailed information.

Ginger

Funny--I never thought of bluets as a weed. My old house had tons of them in the "lawn"--the soil must not be right for them here, because I haven't ANY--and I miss them. Violets, in the wrong place, ARE a weed--but in my woods they are a lovely flower...and thy aren't that difficult to dig out of my perennial bed. I love Cady's example--I had a friend who kept chickens--she used to take my chickweed off my hands. I wish we were allowd to KEEP chooks--but that is one of the hazards of living in city limits. Fowl often deal with bugs as well.

Ginger--a caveat about the black plastic--if you have Asian Tiger Mosquitos Aedes albopictus (Skuse) (we do down here) they only need an 1/8th of an inch of water to breed--and it takes less than a week for the critters to go from egg to full-blown biter. In many situations black plastic can hold small puddles long enough for the eggs to mature. Hence, I use the newspaper/mulch method of smothering.

It may NOT be a problem in NH--yet. They are evil and carry Equine Encephalitis and West Nile--and they bite in the daytime as well as at night. I'm waiting for the resurgence of Dengue and yellow fever down here.

melanie

Mel-
I plan to cover the black plastic with straw or mulch b/c it is too ugly to have on someone's front lawn all season. That takes care of the standing water issue. But a good heads up on that mosquito variety. We do have West Nile here. Not sure what brand of mosq. carries it.

Speaking of mosquitoes, my mother was the president of an agricultural equipment company in the 50's-'70's that made sprayer dusters for mosquito and teste fly eradication, primarily. We used to have our property sprayed weekly with DDT and malthion, gratis. Looking back, it was really non-gratis!

As a child, our family vacations were trips to the "Shade Tree Convention","American Tetse Fly Convention", "Mosquito Convention", etc. Funny when my sister and I went went back to school to tell what we did on holidays! I went to college and came back a Rachel Carson proponent, much to my mother's chagrin. All these years later and I'm still talking about mosquitoes . . .

G.

A good topic; I just posted on a similar theme in Woodlands. Seems people were ripping out poison ivy as an invasiv in their woods; I noted it was the #4 plant for wildlife values in the Northeast (see, I did it again).

I also told them all about my favorite tool, the Weed Wrench. Hard to believe there is a tool that makes ripping out barberry and multiflora rose fun, but this is it. Try it and you'll find yourself taking it out into the woods just for fun. Laugh, but I cleared acres of field behind my house this summer in an afternoon, and had a good time doing it! Everyone should have one, or do like I did and get two; it's even more fun with company...

Here is a link that might be useful: Weed Wrench

AWWWWWW Rachel Carson the Godess of IPM!!!!!!lol
Forty years after "Silent Spring" and her name still strikes terror in the hearts of chemical company CEO's!!*smile*
What is your weed threshhold in your garden? What are you willing to put up with? What do you want erradicated?
Buttercups (Ranunculus hispidus) are the harbinger of spring around here love the little yellow blooms, a welcome sight after a blustery and snowy winter, but they can take over a garden bed in 2.6 seconds a lawn in 3.5 [ though these times are undocumented, we have several mountain folks willing to swears they seens it ta happen.] hand pulling during bloom is the method of choice in annual and perennial beds. 2,4D or variance of and mowing of flowers before seeding, for my turf, as the seed heads are painful little stickers. Ranunculus likes all the tender loving care one gives to a flower bed and turf and will thrive with such care, thats why I feel spraying is a necessary tool to control this "weed". However there are forest beds with Rhodo and Kalmia that I use the Buttercups for a "native " ground cover and it works out quite well.

Now that looks like a cool tool. So, Scott, what size is YOUR weed wrench?

melanie

Thank you, Scott. We haven't used these. Two sizes would be good for my purposes. I like the thoughtful, honest way the site describes the construction, workings, and repair of their product. Good marketing.
G.

Ginger,
Wonder if any vendors will be selling those at New England Grows next week...

Ah! the weed wench I think she was married to that bloke old Rudyard was talking about until she discovered what he was doing with the best dinner knives.

"Weeds... any plant, domestic or wild, that grows where you don't want it."

Interestingly ... weeds have a biology or a collection of genes that make them difficult to eliminate and sometimes downright pesty ... I have never had a problem with Pine trees popping up in my vegtable garden ..... Have you ??

By the way the weed forum is awful slow !!!

Good Day ...

Ah, but Mojave, them's just semantics. Pine trees ARE weeds if they start the ball of forest succession rolling in your meadow, where you want only grasses and forbs.

Is there anyplace where nutgrass might not be considered a weed??? That is THE number one weed down here for me. No Poison oak or Poison Ivy thank heaven. I wonder if getting to know it better might help us find a cure for it. Right now it is breaking up the chains with a pick or a garden fork and then hitting it 3 or 4 times with Round-up. Does anyone have a better way?

Poison ivy makes a beautiful planting on property lines (of neighbors you loathe). Not only is it a deterrent to trespassing, the foliage is stunningly beautiful in autumn, and the berries are food for birds and wildlife. (As it happens, humans are the only creatures in the New World who are allergic to it.)

I have pulled out many a pine seedling with pliers - they are a weed if you want to keep your mossy-ferny understory just that.

Chris-
Said to be one of the world's top ten worst weeds - here is what the venerable Henry Mitchell has to say about nutgrass (I loved his garden column in the Washington Post when I lived in Washington, DC in the 60's and '70's):

Nutgrass (Nut Sedge)
"It is possible that bindweed and nutgrass are the only two forms of life that come into existence spontaneously, without seed or root or anything else. Generally it is believed that life on earth began with single-celled organisms and things like algae. My own view, which will probably become gospel once more research in paleobotany has been conducted, is that bindweed and nutgrass came first ... And will last longest."

Henry Mitchell
One Man's Garden

And it's probably growing over his grave as we speak. You've got your work cut out for you . . .

Ginger

There's a WEED forum? Oh lord, one more distraction....
melanie

LOL!
Maybe an appropriate sub forum would be "Weed Restoration in the Garden." All we'd need to do is advise people to go away on vacation and come home to a fully restored weedy wonderland.

Hello Cady ... but look how long they take to come back ?? ... You can cut them down ! Who wants a meadow anyway ?

Ginger ...... thats interesting ... we get Mexican palms popping up in strange places ...

Yep ... Nutsedge is here too ....

Hey I collect weeds when I can !!

Good Day ....

Hi folks,

Glad everyone thought well of my favorite tool. Cady, I don't think you'll find em at NE Grows; even the military buys direct from New Tribe (bet that sticks in their craw, buying tools from tree-hugging hippies). These are the real tree hugging hippies; Weed wrench is a profitable sideline to their real business of selling climbing gear to climb old growth timber. So when you hear about someone camping in a tree to keep it from being cut down, if it's not someone from New Tribe, it's a friend of theirs...

"I like the thoughtful, honest way the site describes the construction, workings, and repair of their product. Good marketing." sez Ginger. Yep, me too. When I called to order mine, the person who answered the phone was obviously struggling with the order process (I was sure I'd gotten the janitor) When she said "Thanks for being patient; I don't usually do this." I asked what she did. She paused as if embarrassed, then blurted "I'm the prsident of the company; my secretary is late today." We both fell out, and finally got through the paper work with patience and smiles. I love this product and the company and continue to pimp for them for free whenever I get the chance. Ginger, I have a Heavy and a Medium and am considering a Mini for seated use and tight spaces. Not as fast as a bulldozer, but the good guys get to stay this way. I have a vision of a regiment of WW-armed eco-warriors descending on a different state forest every weekend to clear it of noxious NNI's; it'd be SO doable. But here in Connecticut, the governors private hot tub took priority...

Scott, don't even get me going on the governor.
Norway maple must be a weed, because I spent a good part of last summer hoeing, pulling, weed-whacking, and Rounding-Up the three million seedlings that came up in the front yard mulched area.
When I lived in NC, my mother broke her leg first week of July, so I came up to CT for six weeks to help her. I had the cat fed and lawn mowed, but I didn't think about the flower beds. There's a part of town in Greensboro called 'Sedgefield'.

Scott-
Thanks for the additional information on the weed wrench. I have a friend whose son used to be a tree sitter's helper. In Oregon, I believe. He brought the tree sitters food and water, dealt with lumber company people, officials, etc. on the ground. She had many interesting tales about her son's adventures. Are they still active? Haven't heard about their activities for some time. I could tell there was something that set their site apart from the ordinary.

Perry-
I always think of buttercups as a field or meadow flower. Do they grow well in the shady conditions you mentioned: "there are forest beds with Rhodo and Kalmia that I use the Buttercups for a "native " ground cover and it works out quite well". I can conjure up a pretty mental image of rhodos and kalmias at the edge of a wooded srea underplanted with buttercups. Is that what you meant by forest beds? A clump of buttercup popped up in my perennial beds one year and I left it. Came up year after year in the same spot and never spread a bit. May behave differently here in chillier, grayer New England.

G.

Cool tool Scott! It certainly looks like the kind of tool that will satisfy the most ardent binge of 'Weeding Lust'.

Weeding Lust ; that soul satisfying feeling a gardener gets when he hears the sound of roots of dasterdly plants ripping from the soil coinciding with a flurry of arm and hand movement.

side note: This condition is often accompanied by a glazed crazed look in the gardeners eyes. If this occurs it is wise not to approach the gardener, unless offering a helping hand AND sympathetic ear as to how they are going to "eradicate (nuke!?) these S.O.@#$%^&*^%$#@(?*%!!! weeds. thankyou very much!!! okay I feel much better now."

Yep Scott a fine tool for the arsenal.
P.

G.
The buttercup that is most prevalent in our area is the Ranunculus hispid . That tiger is a real spreader in turf areas once it is established. It survives well in semi- wooded areas with some sun. I do have two patches (buttercups) that are competing for attention among the Vinca minor growing under a stand of mature river birch ( a well shaded area) max. two hours of morning sun. The other areas I have written about were in semi-shade ( dappled shade through out the day) or sunny locations. I have encouraged the Ranunculus as ground cover by topping with weed eater and letting reseed as well in wanted areas.
P.

Wrong plant, Perry. I was talking about the common buttercup (Ranunculus acris). I should have looked up R. hispidus before jumping to conclusions. Yours is native in NH, however, although I have not seen it. Always looking for showy yellows for the woodland garden besides celandine poppy and merrybells. We have an excellent nursery here in NH that specializes in native woodlanders propagation. They send a questionaire with their annual catlogue asking for suggestions for new natives. I'll check this one out further.
G.

Venezuala-

the native plant society here just recently did a short program on nut grass. They said to dig up the nuts, or keep it cut very short. It will eventually use up all it's energy re-growing. Other than that, just live with it. Luckily, i have no yard other than "weeds." Never planted any grass, it's just pasture land.

I'm a lurker, though not much of a history person, but i'm always willing to learn more. Ya'll seem to be a very knowledgable group, and i'm very glad i've found this forum. I got some very good ideas on a new bed i'm putting in, off the thread "common design problems" (i even printed it out for further reference).

Speaking of weeds, does anyone know of something called Texas Takeover? I've done googles (gotten alot of political stuff), and checked w/ some native plant people, and they don't know what i'm talking about. It is a vine, with leaves and thorns like a rosebush, but not a single flower of any kind at any time. Grows with one stem out of the ground, doesn't branch, and is terrible! I'm keeping even with the stuff (after 7 years) by mowing (too hard to pull out, although after seeing the weed puller above, may have to rethink that).

THanks you guys, for all your thoughtful and intelligent comments on all the threads i previously read!
Angie

Previous experience at golf courses, and landscape maintenance companies, conditioned me to despise "weeds."

Then, about 1987, I took a hike along Eagle Creek to the Punchbowl falls in the Columbia Gorge, and noticed how well the canyon and hills were decorated with those "weeds."

That one hike changed my attitude about native plants, from then on.

I am willing to keep some areas weed free, but a few daisies or dandylions in lawns don't bother me now. Thistles I can understand - those hurt to walk on.

So my approach is flexible now insteas of a warfare type of maintenance.

I put a link below that is a simple representation of Eagle Creek, in case any of you have not been there. It doesn't look like the photos include Punchbowl falls, but that one's easy to find with a search.

Here is a link that might be useful: Site with some pics of Eagle Creek trail in Oregon

Sounds like Tribulus or "punture vine" ... it must flower unless you are mowing it before it gets a chance to ... if it is Tribulus it will have yellow flowers ... let some grow without mowing it to see how it grows ....

Good Day ...

I have three weeds in my garden:
1. Lawn grass. I got rid of my lawn, but the grass insists on coming back -- usually in a clump of moss where it is easy to pull.
2. Buttercups. They're not as prominent as they used to be because I've put down a heavy layer of wood chip mulch and they don't like growing in mossy shade. I do a spring cleanup, then pull them as they pop up during the year (a very leisurely diversion).
3. Bind weed. I let it grow until I need it to tie up branches, et al., when I pull it. I never seem to have quite enough.

I used to have dandelions, but they migrated into the neighbors' lawns.

I had dandelions, but my rabbit and I ate them. They finally gave up. I'm kind of disappointed, because now I have to forage in other people's yards to get salad fixings. Bindweed... Plenty of that, but John just gave me a great idea. Buttercups, too, but I like them where they are in the rock garden. They don't seem to step out of that area.

Mohave Kid, does Tribulus grow in Nevada too? It grows down here quite nicely and as long as you do not have to walk on it it is a fine plant for areas that get NO water other than rain.

Yep ... we have Tribulus ... grows in dry roadside ares or unplanted locations like in lots ... flowers in very late spring and summer .. Its a cousin of the Creosote Bush one of our key shrubs in the Mohave.

Bindweed a pain ... some is under my Oak ... bet it came from the nursery eight years ago .. like many of the weeds we have here ... it's a pain... I'm going to mulch over it and spot spray I think ... but the Oak ??

Dandelions ... my grandmother use to have us pick them for dinner back in the old days ... maybe close to the DDT days !! I still eat them but buy them from the store.

Good Day ...

Thank you to Scott Reil for his post in this thread about the Weed Wrench! I'd never heard of it before, but clicked his link and checked some posts on other forums and decided I NEEDED one. So Thursday afternoon I ordered it, it arrived today, and we've just finished pulling up volunteer saplings all over our property. No kidding. Pyracantha, two small fig trees, privets, ash seedlings -- it got them all. I ordered a "medium" because it sounded like I could handle it better than the large one myself, but found that my 125 pounds weren't enough for the tough ones. My husband had to operate the Wrench for most of them, but in about 30 minutes we had cleared about ten really stubborn woody weeds. Thanks to all of you who post such good information for the rest of us.

Elsie--so a lighter woman can't really muscle the medium? Or were the trees too big? I've been trying to decide which size to order--small or medium. I weigh between 125/130 (depending on water weight!) and my boys weigh 107 and 130--on a good day soaking wet. DH could probably handle the medium OR the large...HEY! NO COMMENTS.

Would like to ehar more of your wrenching experiences...

melanie

Melanie,
My husband said I apparently didn't weigh enough for the tough ones I was trying -- they were at maximum size for the jaws to grip. I think if maybe I'd been alone and had to continue the way the instructions said (pull hard, then let up, then hard again, repeat) I might have done it, but it seemed too easy to say "this one's too big for me" and hand it over. The thing really, really does a good job, though. I was able to pull some of the smaller ones myself. Perhaps practice will help, too.

Elsie

Elsie-
How large were these trees you were removing? Could you give me an idea by estimating the trunk diameter and height of the tree? I am purchasing a med and lg for my business. But we are mostly women(and one guy)- maybe I should get sm and med???
Ginger

Gang--confession time. I am having a REALLY difficult time behaving myself when we (the ladies) are talking about REQUESTING small and medium tools instead of the large....

melanie/hangs head

Ginger:
The medium Weed Wrench takes a 2 inch diameter trunk, and these were really jammed into the jaws to fit. Most of these had been topped to make them less conspicuous till I could dig them out, so I can't say for sure the height. Since you have a business and mine's just for home use, I'd think you'd need both the medium and large.

The instructions say that if a root doesn't come out easily, you're supposed to "pump" the handle, "rhythmically pulling hard, then relaxing the pull." If I'd done what they told me I probably wouldn't have had a problem. But I tried leaning on it with my weight, which is what I had seen my husband do to another one, and that's where I failed.

So I'm pretty sure it's a malfunction in the user instead of any problem with the tool not being able to be used by a normal-sized person. I've got a couple of other saplings to pull (I hope tomorrow) and I'll post the results when I've done it.

Melanie:
You're supposed to have your HANDS in the dirt. You've got them mixed up with your mind... :o)

Thanks, Elsie. I'll look for your post tomorrow, too.
G.

Ginger,
I'm happy to report that when you follow the explicit instructions that come with the Weed Wrench, it works just as it's supposed to. I had no trouble this morning taking out several weed saplings. I would assume that the people who work in your business are far more fit than I am (having recently retired from many, many years working indoors behind a desk) and would have no trouble with it. I can only speak for the "medium" size, but I'd like to think that in my younger days when I did much more weekend gardening I could have handled the larger model, too. At least it's a nice fantasy...
I hope this information helps you.

Thanks for the report, Elsie. I appreciate it. Always good to hear from actual users of products to get detailed information. I think these tools will really cut down on our time spent on clearing jobs this year.
G.

Gonna order one tomorrow!

melanie

Melanie:

So what was it that swung you into buying one? Was it this line:

"The instructions say that if a root doesn't come out easily, you're supposed to "pump" the handle, "rhythmically pulling hard, then relaxing the pull."

OH, Kevin--you are BAD. No-it was Elsie's testimonial. I am a fellow lightweight--and was concerned I wouldn't be able to use the medium sized tool effectively. Make of that what you choose!

melanie

Have the heavy and the mini and they are great tools.

My Russian friend's definition of a weed, "flower I not like."

Venezuela -
Euell Gibbons says that those nutsedge tubers are edible, and have been widely consumed, back to ancient Egypt. They are a good digestive (according to old Euell), and can be used to make horchata, or dried and ground into flour. The ones I've eaten right out of the dirt taste a little like water chestnuts - Euell says a cross between coconut and almond. The more you dig to eat, the fewer there will be to grow! Look for a little tuber at the end of each thread-like root, which fan out in a horizontal circle from the base of the stalk.