Why not put an ad in the local paper saying "Free vinca" and "Free Ivy"? A local woman does that and titles her ad "I point, You dig" and gets all her perennials divided that way. If I weren't on the other side of the country, I'd come get that vinca myself.

Since it is difficult to get plants to grow reliably under pines and oaks b/c of dry soil, leaf and needle drop, shade, root competition, etc., why not leave the vinca and ivy under the trees in a circle extending out to the dripline, perhaps? Remove the groundcovers using your mow and smother methods on the rest of your property. You can also plant spring bulbs in the vinca/ivy groundcover under the trees to add some color and variety without harming the plants. For maintenance, just mow in a circle around the trees.

If you must remove the groundcovers under the trees, first think about what you want to grow there(unless you are putting it to mulch)and how much effort, replanting, watering, soil amd amendments, etc. you are willing to expend to establish something else: grass, moss, perennials/annuals, other groundcover, etc.

Pulling the stuff out by hand, mowing and remowing, and using organic herbicides like Burnout (not sure how this would effect tree roots--it is acetic acid) are other methods of removal.

I agree with Ginger on leaving the groundcover in place under the trees if possible. If you remove it, keeping the area mulched and weedfree can be a lot of work, and it will be difficult to grow anything else there.

Xanadu:

Vinca is extremely invasive in California and the ivy, depending on the type, also spreads without much encouragement. The pines are more able to take abuse on the roots. Established oaks in Cali are not and you're taking a chance on damaging the tree if you dig deep. As an aside, watering under native oaks that are not new is very likely to cause rot.

Ginny, many people in California will give up their vinca in a New York minute, but, unfortunately it's really tough to take out permanently.

Good luck, X.

spectre

My sister used Roundup on a heavy growth of vinca without any effects on the trees. Then she had the gardeners hack off the dying tops with a machete and then mulch. She patrolled the area monthly for a couple of years, spraying any new shoots that came up from the roots.

Oaks do not tolerate disruption around their roots - all the way out to and past the drip line for 10 feet or so on a large one. Tilling is a disaster, as is adding more than a few inches of mulch.

Howevre, they might like itif you killed off the groundcovre and lewf tthem with a ground-bark or gravel mulch and some weed-blocking fabric.

Thank you for the responses. I don't like monoculture, which is what the Vinca and Ivy have created. Vinca is a terrible invasive here. It has escaped into the foothills and smothers the native plants. It survives the rain-free summer and I don't think bulbs or anything planted in it will survive. This is not the mannerly growth seen elsewhere in the country--it is evergreen and rampant year round with a brief dormancy in midsummer when it's really hot. I appreciate the reminders about the native oaks and I would be very careful around them but I would rather see bare ground with a thin mulch than the grasping, tripping, rodent-hiding vines of vinca.

I am interested in the discussion of what vinca does in California--so different from Massachusetts, where it is a prized and well-behaved groundcover. But I have one major question so that I can envision what you're talking about--which vinca is the problem--minor or major? Here, V. minor is a lovely evergreen groundcover and V. major is a trailer used in windowboxes and other containers. Only rarely, and in the most protected place, would it live over the winter. So which one is the problem out there? Or both?

Ginny12, I did a Google search and after reading various threads and articles I think it is both Vinca major and V. minor causing problems in California. The pictures did not differentiate enough but the descriptions make me think I have Vinca major, since the flowers are about two inches across. However, in spite of the descriptions, my plants survive the occasional snowfall, light frosts and NO water from May until November. Further up in the foothills it's colder and I see the same plant covering large stretches of hillside. It has smothered everything else except trees--it does need some shade.

Both Vincas, major and minor, are a problem in the metro Washington DC area as well. V. major is growing wild in some of the wooded areas of Mount Vernon, and I had it terribly at the previous property I worked at. To get rid of it I literally called in the Marines! Actually some guys from a nearby Air Force base came over and ripped it out for me.

Hi - I don't know if this will help, but I was able to rid pesky groundcover (ivy and asiatic jasmine) under a stand of 75-year old Texas live oaks ... and replant without disturbing the oak roots. I pulled by hand, though, since I didn't want to use Roundup, etc. My situation may may be a little different from yours, as Texas live oaks are almost an evergreen species, and they drop their leaves and regrow new ones within a few weeks in the spring (a truly blissful time for allergy sufferers, I can attest!). So I don't have the fall leaf drop problem that you may have. I can easily rid the bed of the leaves with my handy-dandy shop vac, blow them into the grass, and mow over for the compost pile. Don't know a hoot about pines, since they don't grow in our soil here.

The trees provide a lot of shade, so I chose Alpinia zerumbet variegata (variegated ginger lily), Aspidistra (cast iron plants) and Ruellia (Mexican petunias). I added compost to the bare soil, cultivated lightly, kept my plantings away from the tree trunks and started with fairly small potted plants, so I didn't have to dig deeply to plant them. I am in zone 8b, with very hot summers, mild winters. All are growing as perennials quite well, require amost no irrigation beyond rainfall, and I've (so far, so good! - knock on wood, so to speak!) seen no harm to the trees. I still have to keep an eye out for the old groundcover, but the current plantings provide enough shade and nutrient competition that it rarely shows its face any more.

If you decide to go ahead and kill it, good luck getting rid of your vinca!
Robyn

Interesting. I am sorry for the infestation--we have that problem with other plants here but not the vincas. Or true ivy--Hedera. Winter does the job. But I am sure you wouldn't want us sending you any of *that*.