LOl, well the name, had to come up with something when I rejoined and quit useing my old JWJ, moniker.
My outdoor area was completely covered with chicken wire.Like Hilary , we had hawks and eagle problems.
If your just looking at the little house it would be very easy to add a small lean too for a covering outside over a small part of your run,, this just allows another protected space from sun and snow,as well as an area they seem to feel safe from the coop.
My problems with the chickens in the gardens were complicated,my vege garden was 1.5 acres at one time and flowers beds and lawn covered well over 4 acres, they were show gardens for my greenhouse and organic produce for Farmers market.They could strip a 3 foot delph in seconds leaving just a stalk,as to veges and berries, wow, holes in everything they sampled,that they did not eat.They would even hop up and down to raid the bottom of the cherry trees,,lol
Our chickens were pets.Each of my kids had so many as well as a turkey.All of which would sneak into the house given the chance.Several of the banties loved to sit on your shoulder like a parrot.They are like most animals,spend time around them, handle them and they will be friendly
As to good egg layers we had
Barred rocks
Rhode-island reds
Black Astrolops
Anconas
Araucanas-green eggs
Leghorns
Buff rocks
Light and dark Brahmas
probably a few other I missed,through the years we had tons of little fancy bantams,guineas,turkeys,

Some of these are not the prettiest, leghorns are ugly birds, LOl,,

We have a dozen Aruacana hens now. We rebulit the chicken house 4 years ago. It is a potting shed on the front and chicken house on the back. It sets on round cement pads and has wire hardcloth around it to keep varmits from underneath. It is insulated and has a light bulb in the chicken house and also a heat lamp for when it get really cold. The run is chicken wire and is enclosed on top as well because of hawks and owls. It goes down in the ground a foot or so because of skunks, racoons and dogs. It has a small door to the run and a larger one we open in summer as well as a screened window for ventilation. We let them out when weather is nice but the garden is fenced off because they eat the garden stuff. Chickens need to be replaced every 3 years if you want eggs. The foxes got the pretty rooster and several hens last year right by the pen in the afternoon. There is a reason to slant the roof away from the run. It gets really muddy when it rains, snows and melts. We have had other chickens but like the colored eggs and haven't had problems with thin shells with them. Cost of feed really jumped this month!

When should chicks be ordered? I found a site in NM that does mail order (Privett Hatchery?). They should get to my house really fast from NM.

Any other recommended mail order chick suppliers?

Thanks!
Michelle

Privett Hatchery has been around for years. I buy mine at the local feed store. Both feed stores carry them but the one I ended up with as many roosters as hens even though they were suppose to be a selected run. So I bought the last batch through the other and all were hens as promised. So you might want to check your feed store. They are usually around Easter.

Thanks - I hope I can wait until Easter. I am sooooo excited about the whole thing. :-) Seems like the feedstore will let me pre-order... That might calm me down a notch. :-))))

(Spring must be springing)

Cheers,
Michelle

Charlene if memory serves, I once had 8 chickens in a coop that was 4' by 8' - 7 hens & a rooster. The coop was built out of logs! Not much could have gotten in it. I think your 4' by 4' coop would be big enuf for 4 hens but they simply MUST get out thru the day.

So they are out . . . . Chicken wire stops chickens but that's about all. Before I figured it out, a coyote killed a couple of my chickens in their run. Then the flock went on a little walk and the coyote killed the rooster. I had beautiful feathers scattered around in the trees and panicked hens trying to get in the house. Then I shot the coyote. This isn't a very good plan . . . best not to give predators the opportunity.

With chickens here in the yard, unless I've just gone to get an ice tea out of the fridge - they are NOT left out by themselves. Hens are very entertaining to allow out - they'll race across the grass about 6 feet, and then realize that they are standing on something that can be eaten. Every time, they act like this even if you allow them out 3 times every day. And, I do that some days - allow them out 3 times. But, when I leave the backyard, then hens get a treat - back in their hen yard and the door is closed behind them. They think of "scratch" as a treat but it's usually something better than that, often leftovers.

Breeds? Perhaps I haven't shown much imagination in this. I really like Australorps and have purchased them a number of times. They are quiet, gentle hens not given to flying over fences. They lay really well and their black feathers with a green iridescence make the hens beautiful in bright sunlight.

I've had a number of breeds for meat - Cornish X, Light Brahma, Barred Plymouth Rock. Have to say that the Barred Rocks were so lean that they MUST make better layers, given their popularity. I've had Auracana and Rhode Island Red roosters and a couple of others but that's my only experience with those breeds and I don't want any more experience with roosters.

Besides the Australorps, I've also had Buff Orpingtons. They are much like the Aussies, just a little bigger and quieter but not as good for eggs. Really, I think these bigger breeds are a much better way to go than "flightier" types until you really understand their requirements.

Feed prices, Margaret - people should probably forget about raising meat birds and buying their feed. It's cheaper to buy chicken in the supermarket. Laying hens are a little different story but I intend to grow more things for them in the garden. Any 2 people can generate enuf leftovers for a single laying hen but you've gotta be careful here. Feed 'em junk and they won't lay eggs.

Michelle, I've never bought mailorder chickens (got mailorder quail once :o). The feed store has always had chicks every Spring with at least a few breed choices. Be careful about severe temperatures for the little day-olds.

digitS

What about using those cattle panel fence pieces for the run, and covering that with chicken wire? Will that deter predators?

I well remember being attacked by Rhode Island Red roosters as a kid. :-(

The chicks will be indoors with appropriate heat for at least 5 weeks. Probably sitting on the sofa, ordering pizza, watching MTV, and peeping. :-D

Cheers,
Michelle

I love all this chicken talk! I'm getting very excited too, Michelle. If you had told me way back that I would be excited about chickens, I wouldn't have believed you!

I've got to go get my mom at DIA right now and will sit down tonight to reply more in depth and discuss chickens some more.

I'm with Michelle in questioning what should one use to protect the run if not chicken wire ?

Charlene

I was thinking about using the 16' cattle panels bent into an arch. Then I could tie a tarp over it for winter to give them a sheltered run... The chicken wire could go over the sides. Am not sure if I could just put a panel on the bottom to keep varmints from digging in? Or if it's better to trench it and bury some wire.

Thoughts?

Michelle

The present "outdoor room" part of the henhouse is only covered with 1-inch chicken wire. It is about 3 feet above the ground and under the main roof of the structure. I've never seen a skunk, raccoon or weasel anywhere nearby. Dogs generally cannot get in the yard.

Cats are of very little concern to me and those are the predators I'm most likely to see here (3 or 4 times a day, peeing and digging holes in the flower beds . . . ). Four 6 pound hens can probably deal with someone's pampered feline and I've just never seen a cat willing to cross the fence when the hens are out there.

Now having said that, I saw a falcon sitting on my fence this morning. Chickens are very wary of threats from the sky. The falcons sweep neighborhoods for small birds and pick them out of mid-air. It's surprising how common falcons are and yet some people never notice them, probably confusing them with pigeons. In more open country, larger hawks could be a real problem.

Cattle panels should go a long way towards reinforcing the chicken wire netting. Honestly, I think most any predator could literally dig a hole right thru chicken wire alone. The coyote didn't bother to do that when I lived far out in the country. He just jumped over the fence.

Big hens cannot fly very well and even tho' they could go over my 3' backyard gate - they've never shown any interest in doing so. The 5' and 6' fences may be too high for them. This would absolutely NOT be the story with bantam chickens and probably the Mediterranean breeds would fly out of the yard, as well. That's probably too bad since Leghorn-types would be the best layers and food-to-egg converters. But, I do like big quiet hens.

My Araucana and RIR roosters were good boys. The others, including Cecil the Sebright banty, were okay too. The problem was that they were A. unnecessary, B. noisy, C. unnecessary and noisy.

digitS'

I can't recommend chickens enough. We are in Fort Collins and have 10 hens in a 4x8 raised house (built by my wonderful hubby) with a 200 square foot yard. We have black australorps, araucaunas (well, technically they're americaunas), barred rocks, a delaware, and welsummers. They are all brown egg layers. So far, our welsummers have been our best layers but the rest of the group is a bit younger and we do not supplement light during the winter. We have a very fat and happy fox family living in the neighbor's barn and have lost 2 hens to them (but only when they were free-ranging).

We have found our arrangement to be effective at excluding raccoons and other predators. We also have a small chicken tractor that I will soon be gifting to a friend. The chicken wire on the chicken tractor did seem to exclude our local predators but just to be safe we covered all of the openings on the coop with hardware cloth.

Our ladies have been fine all winter without supplemental heat, just twice-daily exchanges of water and plenty of grass-alfalfa hay to fluff around in. Next year we do plan to add a heated waterer and possibly artificial light... we'll see.

I would not worry too much about giving the chickens a lot of room in the coop if you will be providing them with a secure run. They tend to congregate in tight places to keep warm anyway.

The eggs are wonderful, as is the compost. We got our chicks and supplies at Poudre Feed Supply - they've been great for us. Be sure to handle them as much as possible as chicks/juveniles... it makes for more friendly, easier to treat/catch birds.

Have fun!

Robin, I'm curious about your Welsummers. Can you tell us more about them - size, temperament, how many eggs you are getting, etc. They certainly are pretty birds but I'm going entirely on pictures - haven't seem 'em even at the county fair.

I neglected to mention my prettiest bird - Gabriel, the Silver Spangled Hamburg. You may notice that I've never had Hamburg, Araucana, Sebright, not even RIR laying hens despite having these odd roosters. Well, they weren't really odd but I wasn't planning on letting the laying hens brood eggs so got these roosters just because I wanted to look at the pretty things.

digitS'

Thanks for the feedback on cattle panels...

There aren't many cats around, just a shy feral cat or two. Hawks & kites will be another story, I see hawks around my yard. There are also owls and eagles (golden and bald) around, not sure if they'd drop in?

I thought if I use cattle panel, it will be easy to use standard electric wire fittings and put a couple of strands of electric higher up on the sides to deter skunks and racoons from trying to climb in - and then set the electric charger on a timer so it turns on at night after the hens are safely roosting.

This is the type of raised coop I'd like to build:
BackyardChickens coop

AND, I spoke with the feedstore. Because they have a popcorn machine, the health department does not let them carry chicks anymore! Oh my.

I am not sure if I want a rooster (they are pretty devils). Guess I could always get one next year.

Yep, still excited at the idea. Yep yep!

Cheers,
Michelle

Thanks for the feedback about the coop size. I think it may work out then especially if they like tight spaces and if I provide another area with shelter along with the large outdoor space for them.

It's been a while since I've posted pics. We'll see if it works for me. Here're the coop pics that I'm considering....

http://images.craigslist.org/01010201021201160520080131e777206a1e7c5e235d001736.jpg

http://images.craigslist.org/010205011611010408200801313422be5154ba4a5a31009959.jpg

http://images.craigslist.org/01040001160201030620080131b250e1209cc287b46c005b7b.jpg

http://images.craigslist.org/0101050103100116072008013175a1377a5cdc1d1c3400f772.jpg

I'm now getting excited about breeds. I've been mostly focused on where I was going to house them first! I don't think we'll do the smaller breeds.

I do see hawks and owls frequently around us.

I like the link at backyard chickens, Michelle. Very nice.

New birds every three years? That may be hard for my son if we've gotten to know them as pets. Maybe we'll have to name a few as pets (keepers) and name the others "breakfast" & "lunch" that can be replaced every year?

Digit, so you've trained your hens to go back into the coop several times a day with treats?

If chicken wire isn't secure enough for the outdoor run, what do you use? I have coated green wire fencing around the garden (the kind put up with metal posts that they sell at big box stores by the roll). Would this work?

Thanks for all the awesome feedback to us newbies!

Charlene

Good Michelle! I prowl around that site, too. You can find me below. And, you'll also discover that I fibbed about never having Sebright hens - but, honestly, I don't remember ever eating a single egg . . .

Here's the BYC's small coop page. I like "Monica's chicken house" but would jack the thing up a little higher and put a floor under it with a door in the end of the run rather than side.

Sure, I've got ideas on improving other's fine architecture but you can see how I'm just slappin' a tarp on the henhouse to keep the Winter moisture from running thru the darn flat roof.

digitS'

Sorry the pic link didn't work and I can't quite remember how to do it. I need to give myself another lesson but right now I hear my bed calling.

Cluck, cluck,
Charlene

Charlene, here are your photos... That one is nice. That guy posts on BYC under the name LoneCowboy (I think). I saw the coop photos posted there.

{{gwi:1190531}}

{{gwi:1190532}}

{{gwi:1190534}}

{{gwi:1190535}}

I wonder how that design handles torsional stress because there's nothing to support the frame across this way:

{{gwi:1190536}}

Cheers,
Michelle

Wow, thanks for doing that for me, Michelle!!

That coop is shown low to the ground but it would be raised up high off the ground with posts attached. Before I decide firmly on this coop, my neighbor who is a conctractor said he might work out a deal and help us build a coop/run in exchange for fresh eggs. He said I needed to find some plans first.

Steve, nice pics. I would love to see another pic once snow is melted.

It's snowing pretty good here right now, stay warm!

This is just my thinking: For only a few chickens, it would be nice if the coop was something 2 people could pick up and move around. Additionally, with a dirt floor run, there's just nothing for the chickens to do anything with after just a week or so. It may as well be boards - I used redwood deck boards.

Therefore, I'd be very inclined towards Monica's chicken house with an extended floor. But, one would probably need to create a plan for it.

This plan I came across just isn't quite there but it may fit with some of your ideas and be adaptable. The plan is for a coop 8' by 4.5'.

{{gwi:1190530}} might be what you were thinking of, Michelle. It is really possible for this to be used like a "chicken tractor." It could have built-in roosts and nest boxes. That makes a good deal of sense to me but there's still NO shelter here, let alone insulated, Winter shelter.

digitS'

Yes, that's exactly the sort of run I'd like to build... But the henhouse will be a proper one like this link:

Link to henhouse photos

As long as I can move it with an actual tractor, it's all good. :-) My Kubota has nice forks on it, and if I don't end up liking the location, I'd like to be able to fork it up and move the henhouse.

The spot I have picked out is good in that it's right between my fenced lawn, and my fenced back yard. So I can let the chickens into either fenced area and loose dogs can't get into those areas. The only bad thing is its next to my grandparents window, so if the noise is too much, I will want to move it all to a different location.

Back in the day, we had the henhouse dug into the ground (an old skeet shooting blind). It was nice and warm in winter, but really a pain to clean out.

Cheers,
Michelle

Sorry to take so long to respond, digit! It's amazing how kids' Valentine's school parties always end up being more involved than I expect them to be.

Our Welsummers are beautiful, medium-sized birds (smaller than our now-departed-into-the-belly-of-a-hungry-mama-fox Buff Orpington but larger than our Ameraucaunas) that lay gorgeous speckled brown eggs at a rate of about 2 every 3 days (during laying season - we don't supplement light during the winter, so they hardly lay at all). They're a bit on the skittish side (but they didn't get handled as much as chicks as our other birds). Our friendliest birds are the black australorps (hands down).

I've had all kinds of animals (cats, dogs, guinea pigs,rabbits,shetland sheep) and the chickens are, by far, the biggest bang for the buck (in terms of enjoyment).

Robin, they seem to always be on their own agenda and talking to each other about it. Hens are very shy but curious especially if there's a chance of getting something good to eat. But then, they will produce the bestest garden compost to grow your tomatoes and jalapeños and make you huevos rancheros for breakfast.

I came across a website that I want to share. There's more here than the "chicken tractors" but all the photo's give a person some ideas. It is especially easy to see how simple and small a shelter can be for 3 or 4 hens.

My "bird house" cost right at $400 ten years ago! As a combination for chickens and pigeons, it works. Still, it's a rather awkward size for such a small number of birds.

Many of the City Chicken examples are a little too simple. They may be just right for some climates but I don't want the hens stressed at any time of the year. Insulating a tight structure would pay off. And, a secure box would probably provide all the protection from predators that would be necessary.

I especially like the idea of the birds escaping UP during the daytime. A dog in the yard, even if it couldn't get at them, might derail egg production for weeks. They may be upset but getting ABOVE the fray and hiding would probably go along way to soothing their avian sensibilities. Closing them in at night would be peace of mind all around.

digiS'

Sorry I'm coming in to this so late, but I have been raising chickens for about 30 years and there is one thing I know I WILL NOT GO NEAR A RHODE ISLAND RED ROOSTER OR HEN. Sorry about the yelling, I just had to get that out. All better now. Anyway, I have 18 adult hens and 5 adult Roos right now. I am expecting a phone call here in the next hour saying the 22 I just ordered are here and waiting to be picked up at the post office, and I have to go water the chicks I got last month with the turkeys and ducks. Anyway a few tips: 1. do not buy from your local feed store/Big R. When they buy the vast quantities of chicks, they get a reasonable price, but you can do better if you buy before the Easter rush (prices go up just before Easter and drop afterward) plus you have no idea how many little kids squeezed the stuffing out of them. 2. have someplace ready for them when they get home. I like to put mine into a stock tank (minus the water). I have a frame built just a little bigger that is covered with hardware cloth to cover the top. I use a 250watt bulb for the first two weeks and then start turning it off during the day. I do keep them in the house (your not supposeed to0 but they are babies, you wouldn't throw your kids out would you?). And I do keep them on wood shavings. They may eat a few, but the shavings are easy to deal with, cheap and conmposeable (use a dust pan to change when they get stinky). 3. Hatcheries are the best. If you order from southern ones, they will be hatching sooner. I like Ideal, they have never messed up on my order, unlike Cackle and Welp, which were both supposedly new people. Murray McMurray has a pretty catalog, but they have pretty prices too. I would seriously suggest looking at auctions and checking local breeders to see what you like, not necessarly to buy, although you can and avoid all the chick mess and ask questions. 4. My pens have ranged from a dog kennel and a nest box to half the barn. I won't count anything we did in Tucson as it is a whole nother world there. My current pen and by far my fav is the nevest one but I am already looking for where a I can put a new one. I refuse to bend, squat or crawl into a henhouse (been there, did that, too old and lazy) so I make sure anything I build is "standable" I can stand in it with room to spare. It has to have nest boxes on the wall, not the floor. Hens are less likely to stay in the box just to be there and poop up the box if it is not on the floor. They should be on perches or ranging if they are not laying (also don't let your hens stay on a nest or they will stop laying). Then there should be a roost area. Chickens do most of their pooping when they are roosting, as my roost area can tell you. You DO NOT want a coop to be air tight. That will allow ammonias to build in the air and we all remember about ammonia right? If you have a good perch area, the chickens will roost there and make deposits there, not only but mostly, which mimimizes cleaning. Which brings me to cleaning. Only Clean in the spring and the fall. First thing in the spring AFTER the last hard freeze is past. the manure gives off heat as well as ammonia, so if the chickens are roosting over the manure in the winter, they will have "floor heast". I throw wood shavings in to keep the smell down. I have dirt floors which allows them to take their much needed dust baths. Dust baths are really that but they are very useful. Dust baths put dirt inbetween the feathers which sufficates mite populations. Don't worry, the mites do not harm humans but can decimate a flock. My indoor coop is 6x16 with two doors on opposite sides. The roosts are to one side and the feeder, waterer and nests are to the other. They also have an outdoor run that is 8x24 with a conncrete footer (to keep dogs and coyotes out), 6 foot chickenwire on lunmber framing no roof. I put my chickens in every night which is not very hard. When dusk comes, they all find their spot on the nest and tuck their head under their wings. I do have a hearding stick I use to gather the unruly or new hens(you can buy at any feed store). I will try to post some of the pictures of the coop, I don't know if it will work, we will see. Predators come in all sizes. I have heard of everything from hawks to mtn lions. You cannot protect against everything. Just don't pur your coop 20 miles from the house. Don't pur it up wind either. I have heard of owls biting through wire to get birds and badgers digging tunnels two feet under the coop (below grade). My biggest problem has alway been the neighbors dogs and for that I suggest a BB gun. Shoot them in the butt and they usually won't come back. If they do, get out Ruger and a shovel!!
Ok, now for breeds. I tend to stick to the rose comb types as they are not as prone to frostbite, but I would not trade my Australorps in just because of their comb. They lay wonderfully all winter with little or no extra light and the roos and hens are both very mellow and have a beautiful range of colors in their black feathers. I also really like the Buff Orphingtons another single comb species who is also very mellow yellow. But my all time favorite, the chickens I will die with are the Dominques. They look like the Barred Rock, but don't get confused. The Dom has a ROSE comb and wonderful disposition. The roos are not agressive. I have probably had about 15 or so roos over the years and not one went to auction or butcher because he was mean unlike the Rocks, Americanas and Leghorns. I am going to note here that I already threw the RIR's out the window. I won't even waste my time looking at them at an auction, even the hens are slightly agressive. I was attacked by a RIR roo as a child and still have scars on my back. Then when I took my son to a neighbots (about 5 years ago) he was attacked by their RIR roo. The dad said that roo attached everyone, even him and he was 6'4"! Also mellow are the Brahams and Cochins. I have had one Cochin roo that was aggressive, but that was one in 5. So it does happen but there are auctions and butchers for that and nothing tastes better than revenge! The only bucher in Colorado that takes chickens right now is Simla Meat Market on Saturdays.
Oops there are my chicks calling. Gotta go.
Good Luck
PM me if you have any questions as I don't get in here too often anymore since I went back to school. I wonder if my English Prof would accept this as my next essay.
PS I can site you books that I got nost of this information that is not personal experiance in. They are all available in the Springs libraries (well were).

Billie

Sorry it's taken me so long to respond.

All the info is great! I've learned a lot from you all and made some notes about which hens I think I'd like to try.

Thanks for the links Digit above. I will check those out more thoroughly to get more ideas for what will work best for us.

Billie, you should get credit for that essay! Very informative and personal too :) Thanks for all the info.

So I need to decide if we will have my neighbor build a coop for us or buy the little one that Michelle posted pics for me up above. I'm heading over to some of the links ya'll posted on coop ideas.

Charlene

Billie, thanks for the long post. There's so much useful info in there.

Charlene, keep us updated on what you decide to do as far as chicken breeds and coop. :-)

I ordered my chicks from Ideal, to be delivered in the 3rd week of March.

2 - Ameraucana (multicolor eggs)
5 - Delaware (brown eggs)
5 - Faverolle (white eggs)

I tried to pick breeds that are supposed to be hardy and cold hardy, friendly, good egg layers in general, and good WINTER egg layers. We shall see how this all works out!

We decided to move my current garden shed, which is up against the house (it's an old enclosed porch), over to the fenced veggie garden for the henhouse. It was a recycled building, hopefully the same guy with a forklift can move it again for me after the snow melts and the mud dries. :-)

Since the shed does not currently have one wall (it sits against the house), we will have to build that wall for the henhouse. I am hoping we can do nesting boxes that are accessible from the outside the coop, and build in an easy way to scrape out the roosting area. I will post some photos on a new thread after we are further along...

AND joy of joys, I am sooooo looking forward to landscaping the walkway to the chicken coop with lilac, forsythia, roses, and other plants that can tolerate having chickens pecking around. :-) It will be in clear view of my north window, and I want it to be gorgeous!

Cheers,
Michelle
(still in a world of snow and ice!)

Michelle, you've made interesting choices in breeds!

Of course, the Ameraucana is very popular probably just because people like the idea of blue and green eggs. But, their ancestor, the Araucana chicken, has perplexed people since the Spanish conquistadors invaded Peru and found this chicken there before them. The question of how a chicken was in the Americas before Columbus may well have been settled last year using both radiocarbon dating and DNA testing of South American and Polynesian chickens. Quite a remarkable story. (The original report referenced by the NY Times is linked below.)

After picking this common but interesting breed, you went for 2 more listed as critically endangered by the American Livestock Breeds Conservancy. I assume that it's the Salmon Faverolle that you have ordered, Michelle. I think these must have beautiful coloring and they should go quite nicely with the similar Ameraucanas.

I've recently discovered a little information about the Delawares. Personally, I'd be pleased to have them in my backyard by the descriptions and the images I've seen. It's amazing how a breed of anything that was so popular 50 years ago can become critically endangered because the industry has "flocked" off to a single broiler type to the exclusion of all others.

I would even expect the Delaware to be a good egg layer. Really, all commercial breeds today and in the recent past are good layers. The Cornish Cross is a good egg layer even if their importance is for feed conversion into meat. All those billions of "bionic" chickens still had to have a mom that laid an egg.

It's good to see you making these choices. Please let us know how they do and even if you don't breed them yourself, by purchasing these chicks, you are encouraging their preservation.

Really makes me wish I could have stayed in the country where there'd be room for more variety.

digitS'

All this talk of chickens makes me want some!! But I can't see how on our city lot. With two dogs and planning a third it wouldn't seem right to take up part of their running space for chickens.

It seems that more and more I find myself yearning for a larger piece of land. Something where we could let the dogs loose and go for a nice long romp. Where I could have 2 or three big raised vegetable beds, some fruit trees, a rasberry patch, an herb garden with pea gravel paths, chickens and goats (Steve has a thing for goats). And of course LOTS of flower beds!

But this dream runs into counter arguments - money for one, of course; and the fact that I really like my neighborhood, and the connectedness I have with the people who live here.

What's a girl to do?

Well girl, we actually had our chickens in Dad's backyard until I built the bird house here. It was kind of an odd arrangement but as soon as he retired, I built a coop for him and bought him a few cute banty hens. After he gave 'em away, we moved our chickens in . . . that'll teach him! What's that story about the camel getting his nose into the tent?

We also had our chickens on a friend's farm. Put up a little coop right beside hers. I was there nearly everyday of the week (had a key to her gate). Even tho' we were always driving by, it got real tiring to drive in for the "chicken chores." Better to have Dad share in our enterprise and keeping the waterer filled.

Dad mostly got tired of the coop and chaos of having 35 to 50 broilers . . . really, really shouldn't have inflicted so many on him at once. Further, I'm no longer at all convinced that feeding broilers commercial feed for 2 or 3 months makes one lick of sense financially. Egg production from a few hens is an entirely different equation.

My advice on goats . . . dont.

digitS'

Alice I have to disagree on you about the country vs city. Where I am I pay about $500 a year in property tax and that is for 2100 ft of house, 40 acres I can do anything I want on (except look toward my neighbors, but I'll spare you that) all my outbuildings and the community out here is awesome. I also do not pay for water use or sewer (I own the well and septic system). We know everyone here and if there is any type of emergency, you can bet that at least two neighbors will drop in to see if there is anything they can help with. It's not like the city. If you can afford to and you think you might want to maybe try it, rent a place for a few months. With everything that has been repossesed lately, there are several in our area that the banks are trying to rent.

I too am playing with the idea of goats or sheep. Mainly for Cleo (the border collie) to have something to do after I am tired of throwing the ball. The biggest drawbacks for goats the billy smell (I won't have a billy EVER) and they think they should get to climb on everything. But if you build a 6ft pen and give them a A-frame house to climb on they are usually pretty happy. Note do not put the goat house against the fence. Seems pretty obvoius to me, but the neighbors did just that and they are forever chasing the goats home. I also have a neighbor that has his goats in a 4ft pen but its 2.5 acres, he has no problems with escapees. Now my reason against sheep is that I have no clue how to sheer one and no use for the fleece (it does not boidegrade ever). I am not going to take up knitting, I won't even sew. I did learn how to make wool into yarn back in junoir high, but that was like 4 score and 100 years ago! We had to make (from scratch honest) a wall tapestry for out grade YUCH!

Check the water out carefully (rights usages, etc) and find out what the zoning is and what it means. I'm on A-35 in El Paso County which means I am pretty much able to do anything I wnat with my property and I own my water rights (BIG deal here in CO).

One last note, lettting the dogs run free out here unsupervised is not the best idea, if you like your dogs. Out here the ranchers assume a dog in the field with their cattle is going to do harm. The cattle are their life, so the three S's come into play: shoot, shovel and shut up. Sorry, but I have to agree, I had way too many chickens and ducks dissapear before inplementing that policy too.

Another book by:
Billie

Waaaay back in my salad years, I had property with no nearby neighbors. So I got a couple of nanny goats.

There was no attempt to keep them in except in pens in the barn overnight. The garden was fenced and since the dog wasn't allowed in the garden, she wasn't goin' let the darn goats in there.

One day, I showed up to see my best nanny tormenting the dog on the front steps (wasn't goin' up those steps either). The goat was really just playing. I just calmly said, "Get her outta here." The dog, who was fairly gentle with the goats, bit her. Problem was, she bit her as the nanny was turning away and caught her teat. Mastitis immediately set in.

Six weeks of vet bills later, a sad but wiser Steve took the goat out in the orchard and shot her.

The goats spent a lot of time hanging around the house but there was nice grass there for them. Whenever anyone showed up, the 1st thing the kids did (you want milk, you got kids) was either climb on the visitor's vehicle or the visitor. This is cute when they weight 10 pounds, later, not so much.

The goats stayed around close until they discovered my hay field beyond the trees but that took a few years. Back when I was the kid, my brother had a goat that would climb in the cherry tree that grew over the pasture fence. Then she'd walk on the limb and drop down beyond the fence. Didn't really matter, she could also find a place to crawl under the fence. A neighbor had the most outrageous corral. He was determined to keep his goats in. It never worked. A milk cow is far, far easier to corral.

digitS'

Hi Billie,

Thanks for the input... it sounds like you've got a pretty great place.

I think someday we might get to the point where we're ready to go country. Certainly I've always had a fantasy about a cabin in the woods - which Steve supports, especially if it gets him closer to the mountains and hiking. But either one is probably a ways off, (maybe retirement). When we first decided to move to Fort Collins one of the decision factors was the employment opportunities in the vicinity. These days I think you have plan for fact that no job will last you the rest of your life. And neither Steve are very big risk takers when it comes to finances.

Anyway, I digress... I certainly understand about the water rights. That would be a huge concern with the gardening I want to do. And we definately wouldn't let the dogs run unsupervised. I'd like to have an acre or two fenced, and then have access to more property we could walk with the dogs on - ideally forested.

So, sigh... someday!

I though I wanted forest, but I couldn't see it for all the trees! Sorry its rubbing off. I love the job thing. I was working in Springs and my husband was in Pueblo. Then I went to Elizabeth and he was in the Springs. Next I went to Castle Rock and he was in Denver. Now I am unemployed and he is is Los Anamis(sp?). Next week he starts a new job, where you ask? In Denver!! But the job comes with a truck and gas card, plus my husband has a lot of miles on him already, so a few more won't hurt. The commute stunk, but we talked about it a few dozen times and neither of us want to move. Maybe in 20 years, but not now.

Billie

I was being so responsible... Then I emailed and added 4 Polish bantams to my order. Just for fun!

(from Feathersite, photo by Ivan Petersen)

Cheers,
Michelle

They look like they should be in Motown.

Billie

Michelle, what are you going to name them? They must have names! Although I'm not sure how you're going to tell them apart.

Too cute! No eating these guys!

Alice

Maybe I'll eventually have some to trade. I hope at least one is a broody hen.

Cheers,
Michelle

Today was the day. I've been waiting and waiting for the feed store to get their chicks in. They arrived this morning and I got mine about noon.

We purchased over thirty chicks last year, around a dozen at a time, three times. Due to a very hungry bear, aggressive hawks and crafty coyotes we only have three hens left out of the 30 or so we purchased. My daughter-in-law's family gave me a giant white Cochin rooster for my birthday last December so we wintered over a huge flock of four chickens.

We learned a little more about keeping chickens safe in this environment after each massacre so now an electric fence around the chicken house is plugged in every night. If we're not going to be home to shut the doors to the chicken house when they go in at night we put them to bed and close the doors AND plug in the electric fence before we leave.

Last summer we had a rather out of control crop of cheat grass around the house and cabin. I was working at keeping it mowed and from going to seed before unexpected surgery took me out of the picture all summer. Fortunately, the chickens seemed to do a better job of keeping it mowed down than I was doing. This fall I couldn't find a single bunch of cheat grass with any seeds left on. I'm hoping the chickens will make this nasty invasive grass a thing of the past here on our 35 acres.

Today I got:

2 Black Australorps, very nice and friendly large chickens.

4 Wyandottes, my one wyandott, named Dot of course, has laid right through the winter.

2 Barred Rocks. Hopefully one will be a rooster to provide good hackle feathers for fly tying. Fresh trout and fresh eggs. Yum!

2 White Rocks. Good egg layers but I should have gotten Buff Orphingtons instead. Chalk that mistake up to chemo-brain.

4 assorted Bantams. The smartest and boldest hen in our flock is an americauna banty. Banties are fun, require less commercial feed and the eggs aren't that much smaller than the pullet eggs we got with the full sized hens started laying. Also, they fly much better than the heavy breeds so escape a lot of predation by taking to the trees.

The sweet clerk at the feed store asked if I wanted three free chickens. There were three damaged during shipping and she thought they stood a better chance of pulling through with me than isolated in a large tub at the store. Two of the three made it home alive and both appear to be banties. They're eating and drinking OK but seem to have leg problems so are unable to stand yet. We'll see if things improve. The third chicken is now food for the jays.

Many friends ask why I keep getting chickens after we've lost so many to predators. My conclusion is that they are relatively cheap to buy, cheap to feed since they free range, provide abundant entertainment, keep the weeds down and the eggs are so much better than anything you can get at the store.

With the warm turn of the weather, I expect the bear will soon be foraging again. As soon as the snow melts enough around the chicken house, the electric fence is going back up.

If you're interested here is a photo of the chicken house after the bears first visit.

Gail

Good grief! A bear!!!! Nice photos, I love seeing everyone's pix.

I am also VERY excited to think chickens might hamper the june grass and the foxtails. I hate that stuff, and it's rampant here.

Cheers,
Michelle

If you haven't had chickens before one of the things you need to be aware of the first 2 weeks of baby chicks is called pasting up. You need to check their rear ends and see if they are caked. If so take a wet paper towel and wash it off. You can lose the chicks if they can't poop.

My chickens are let out when we are out in the yard and follow us around. I think they remember all the grasshoppers we fed them last year but it is too early this year!

Thanks - I have been reading everything I can get my paws on about raising chickens. :-) We'll be ready for pasty-butt, should it happen.

I am most nervous about my brooder setup, because I've not done it before. I want to set it up now and test it out, but it's waaaay too early. Chickies are going to be here in the basement next to my computer, where I can stare endlessly at them for ~5 weeks. Then they'll head out to the garage to be in a larger horse trough brooder.

:-) Cheers,
Michelle

I don't think that White Plymouth Rocks are a mistake, Gail. Part of the enjoyment in having the hens is seeing them out on the green grass on a sunny day. The Barred Rocks and the White Rocks will look good together.

It will be all I can do NOT to order Black and White Orpingtons this year now that I know Sand Hill Preservation sell these 2 varieties. I wish Australorps came in white but I suppose that would be a rather "off label" for a breed that is supposed to be black. Yes, I know there's now a blue but I'm still thinking about that.

I've had Buff Orpingtons before and know that I wouldn't be quite as happy with Orpingtons even if they were black & white. (Like a bottle of Black & White Scotch Whiskey, with the Scotty and the Westie on the label! ;o)

digitS'

Michelle:

Admit that Dr. Suess drew those chickens.

Dat's funny! :-) I have been told that you can put their topknots into ponytails so they can see.

Cheers,
Michelle

"I don't think that White Plymouth Rocks are a mistake, Gail. Part of the enjoyment in having the hens is seeing them out on the green grass on a sunny day. The Barred Rocks and the White Rocks will look good together."

Thanks for the encouragement, Digit. I won't kick myself in the backside too hard over this even though my husband asked "Why would anyone want a boring white chicken" last night. I decided last night that I'm going to get some of the Orphingtons when I go to town next week for another round of poison. They should still have a few.

Last night I noticed one of the banties was a feather-footed variety. Unfortunately, she didn't make it through the night so now I have none. Obviously this is a problem that needs correction. I'll keep my eye on the feed store for a few more cochins and brahmas. It is hilarious to watch their funny gate when the flock takes off running. They had me laughing so hard a few times last summer I wasn't sure if I was going to split my stitches or wet myself first. Who would think a bird with a brain smaller than a pea could provide so much enjoyment?

The feed store didn't have any Auracanas so I'll be watching for them too. In addition to being good, their colored eggs crack me up. Ha, ha, ha!

We don't have much green grass here, however I do spend probably too much time out on the deck just watching the chickens forage at the edge of the woods and out in the native grasses. I bet the rocks will look good together. One thing we noticed last year is that although the mixed breed flock mixed together well, if there is more than one chicken of any particular breed, those chickens will flock together within the larger flock.

When they get too bold and venture down into the swale the coyotes start picking them off one or two at a time. When I see them headed that way just calling them and offering them some kitchen scraps or a piece of bread will get them back to foraging closer to the house.

Chickens. Just too much fun!

Gail

That pic was too cute. I can't wait to see YOUR pics Michelle. You must be so excited!

I'm still working on the hen housing situation. I talked to my neighbor in depth today about building us one. He owns a construction company and I said we'd hire his guys but he wants to help build it himself with us so that he can get some free eggs which will be possible if I get a bit bigger coop for a few more hens.

He wants plans or a pic of a simple hen house this week. So that's good because now I HAVE to narrow it down and make a decision!

Can one order chicks anytime or just in the spring?

Goats-I'll take Steve's advice on that subject :)

p.s. I can't remember what link it was on but we did end up ordering a mushroom kit for my son from the link that was recommended. He started them yesterday on a log. Sonoma Brown Oyster Mushrooms.

A little note on numbers . . . With a family of 3 and with some eggs to give away - we actually found that 4 hens were plenty.

Yeah, you want to take real good care of them both for their benefit and to keep yourself happy lookin' after 'em. Then they repay you with an egg a day . . . so with 4 hens that's 28 eggs a week!!!

Okay, so they didn't really average an egg/day but much more than a dozen eggs a week is tooooo many. Becoming overwhelmed, the temptation is to start neglecting them. It takes the hens awhile to get "wound up" but they'll get wound up. Then > . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

digitS'

Charlene, you can order chicks anytime of the year and a lot of breeds that are sold out now will become available after Easter, which is also when the prices will go back down. The hacheries always up the prices around Easter because that is when all the feed storea and Co-Op's are ordering. Figure out whar you are going to build first, then figure out what hens are going to get the pleasure of your company.

Below is a link to CSU. They have many plans for henhouses and other out buildings that have all the specs and such ready for you contractor. Take him up on trading eggs for labor. The bartor system is a wonderful thing. Also save your egg cartons now. If you do this right, you will have plenty of eggs and will never have to buy another one, but you will still use the egg cartons. I also collect them from my folks when some of them get to shabby. another thing that is handy is an egg gathering basket, plus it's fun to leave it on the counter after gathering and before company shows up.

I agree with Steve that you can get an abundance of eggs, but as a gardener isn't that something we are proud of. I have 5 in my household and we go through a dozen eggs easy at breakfast. I prefer to have extra eggs than not enough. Nothing is worse than looking forward to a batch of fresh baked brownies and discovering that you used the last egg for breakfast. If you do get too many eggs, I never have a problem finding takers for them. I even posted a note at the feed store and sold them until we started using more again.

Billie

Ps It will happen that you will get a cracked egg here and there. Fry it for your puppy. His coat will love it!

Most breeds of chickens don't start laying until they are 6 months old. Then in the winter the production goes down about half or more and now is starting to pick up again. I find a nylon net scrubby is the best thing for cleaning off the eggs. Sometimes YUCKKK!

Well, we have lost our chickens several times to the foxes. But, hubby is working on a nice big coop that is off the ground (mainly for warmth) and we are reenforcing the fencing with electric on the outside (closer to the ground) to discourage those foxes. Chickens are a blast! My favorite is the buff orpington, they very pretty and very sweet. I also like Silver Laced Wyandottes, Black Australorps, and the Araucanas. They all lay nice sized eggs (with the exception of the Araucana, but I like the colors of their eggs). Also, if you keep a warmer in the coop, they will lay all year round.

We are also thinking of getting some meat birds, so we can have healthy chicken in our freezer.

Chickens are very helpful as far as eating vegie and pasta scraps you are going to throw away.

If you want to order from a company, McMurray's is great. But you have to order a minimum of 25. If you feel like venturing out to Kiowa, our Kiowa Corner Feed store has their chicks coming in right now - they are so cute! I think I'm buying mine in a week, so I need to get my hutch ready in the garage with the warming light!

Good luck!

Lisa :)

I don't know if you've seen this site, Charlene, but these coops are what we used as a prototype for the coop hubs built for me last Mother's Day. So far it has worked like a charm!