Terry,
I too am getting impatient. I decided to experiment with a plastic cover over one of my raised bed and using it like a cold frame. Of course with today's wind (I'm just east of CS) my cover tried to fly to Kansas (blew out the water heater too which luckily I discovered tonight instead of when DH gets in the shower at 5 am - like last time)...
I'm presprouting some seeds in the house and I'm going to put them out as they sprout. It may or may not work, but worst case I'm out a few seeds.

I'm planning to start under lights I think the beginning of March. Not that I can be of too much help to you since this is new to me so I am not the voice of experience. That's my plan though. We'll see how it goes!

Here is a link that might be useful: Tales of a Transplanted Gardener

Most of my stuff gets wintersown, but last year I started my peppers and tomatoes indoors in mid March. That worked out pretty well for the tomatoes, but I think I'm going to start the peppers around the first of March this time. They weren't as big as I would have liked when I planted them out.

I don't even have any grow lights or a place to put them, so I am limited to what will fit in my south facing kitchen window. That's why I love wintersowing ... there's plenty of room on the patio!

Bonnie

Down there average last frost is ~ Mothers Day. Absent using Wall o' Waters, that is your day. Count back 8 weeks if you have a mat or warm place to keep starter mix warm. 10 if you don't.

Having a cloche-type thing, that might give you two weeks sooner than Mothers Day. You can also do row covers for reassurance.

Nonetheless, I've started my stuff already and I'm going out April 15 this year with double row covers, Wo'Ws, and heat-retention devices.

Dan

Terry, I have already sown my peppers. I would try to have peppers and eggplants sown by the end of February because they are slower to germinate and the hotter the pepper the longer they take to germinate. Mine are sitting on baking racks with heating pads between the tray and the racks. About 95% germination so I'm very pleased.

I don't start my tomatoes until mid-March. I'm out in Limon and we have a later frost date than Denver so Mother's Day is pushing it -- I've done it (pushed and got lucky), but I shoot more for Memorial Day, but last year, I didn't get them out until the first week of June. I have too many plants to use WoWs or bottles, so I am extra cautious.

I only seed basil and then buy a few herb transplants of others, so I am not the one to advise on that.

Good luck! Happy growing!

I should have been a little more specific with my last post. What I'm experimenting with now are spinach, broccoli, mesclun salad mix, radishes etc. Turns out radish seeds can sprout in a day! Didn't realize that...

I'm going to start some tomatoes, peppers & other tender plants under lights.

Well, I guess I'll wait on the 'maters til March and do some peppers end of next week (increasing Moon). I'll have until about March 8th then the Moon will be decreasing. I have always found that planting under the increase of the Moon for above ground crops works well.

I was SO happy to see the wind die down today. I have lost most of the boards on my pergola roof in the last 3 big winds. I will reroof later when I need the shade. It was a rustic job of old fence pickets screwed on an angle to let in some sun. I will replace with the same. I actually tied down the posts (they are screwed to the deck floor) and put cement blocks on the rope to hold the whole thing down. It was lifting some with the gusts! I keep shade cloth on the top and one side with lattice to block some of the western sun into my living room. The last wind took most of the shade cloth so I tied it down as well. Never had this in the 8 years I've had the pergola.

Note from a Pansy:

You didn't mention ornamentals but you could have pansies started now. Next would be snapdragons.

What kind of herbs are you thinking of?

. . . peppers in a couple, 3 weeks for me.

digitS'

Herbs-- basil, oregano, thyme, parsley, cilantro, dill. I know basil is very sensitive to cold, not sure about the others. I have had thyme and parsley make it thru the winter but not last year.

Just got thru watering front and back yards. Pretty dry even after watering a couple weeks ago. Bad winter for moisture and wind.
Terry

Hi Terry,

I cant help much with the veggies, Âcause mine are always planted erratically (and precariously) because of my job. ItÂs hard to try to keep things "wet enough" without keeping them TOO wet when IÂm gonna be gone for several days at a time.

But you can start herbs absolutely anytimeÂsummer or winterÂas long as you have a sunny enough window or grow lites to keep them under when the days are short. I started several kinds of basil and a couple other things in December, but had my usual problem: after they germinated I HAD to water them before leaving for a few days, and they wound up being too wet and keeled over on me! I keep planning to try again, but just havenÂt gotten it done yet. But since youÂre around to tend them, I recommend you get some started now. When it gets warm out you can either keep them inside in the pots, or outside in potsÂor you can plant them out in the ground. If you start basil early over winter, and itÂs getting too leggy, just start more closer to "planting out" time and throw the old ones away after the new ones get going. Basil definitely needs to stay inside till itÂs above freezing overnite.

Oregano and thyme are hardy perennials, and IÂm surprised you had trouble with thyme. Usually both of those will spread all over the place and you wind up TRYING to get rid of them. If youÂre starting either or both of those, I recommend winter sowing both them. ItÂs not too late! I didnÂt get any of the WS stuff I put in last year done until February 21Âand much of it came up WAY too early as far as I was concerned! I had been hoping I could just stick the seeds in and not have to worry about taking care of them for a couple months! If you do WS, with the warm temps weÂve been having this year, I recommend keeping your seeds in a shady place where they wonÂt warm up so much during the day on the warm days. That should help slow them down a little bit. But once they DO come up, theyÂll need to be kept in at least some sun to keep them from getting too leggy. Thyme is always easily availableÂeven at the big box storesÂin spring, and it might be easier to just pick some up rather than starting from seed. I usually see it with the ground cover perennials. And if you donÂt get it at a box store, you can pick up an individual small plant for a couple bucks at PaulinoÂs. They have a whole bunch of different varieties. (That would be outside with the perennials, not inside with the herbs!) The flavor is the same, but the color of the flowers (and sometimes the color of the leaves) is different. My favorite is red mother-of-thyme, which has the deepest pink flowers, but I like the white thyme with white flowers and brighter green leaves a lot too. IÂm still trying to come up with a place to put in a small thyme garden here, but with my tiny yardÂand with as much as thyme spreads, I still havenÂt figured out where or how to do it! Some day! Maybe IÂll check out some 12-step programs for my addiction to sedums and semps and ajugas!

Parsley is a biennial, and while IÂve been able to keep mine going for several years with aggressive deadheading and mega-feeding, IÂve finally decided itÂs just easier to start a couple new plants each year to have a constant supply. TheyÂll grow and produce nicely the first year, and will start to flower when it gets warm the second year and wonÂt produce much useable parsley after they start to bloom. And since IÂve been planting them out in the ground for the last few years (used to just grow them in pots), IÂve discovered that the heavier the clay theyÂre planted in, the more easily theyÂll bolt and start to bloom. Even had one of my "new" plants do that last year! Now that I finally have a decent supply of homemade compost, IÂm finally able to mix in large quantities of compost (and worms) whenever I plant anything, so the heavy clay soil shouldnÂt be a problem anymore. Also, IÂve discovered that parsley seed seems to be viable into perpetuity, so if you have olde seed around, go ahead and use it! Parsley does well in the cold, so I recommend winter sowing it now to get some new ones started. Mine from last year are still growing outside, but theyÂre not looking too good right now because they were mostly covered with cottonwood leaves until a couple weeks ago. I did get a few very small sprigs off of them to use in the chicken soup I made a week and a half ago for when I was sick. Chicken soup fixes EVERYTHING, doesnÂt it???

I donÂt like cilantro! IÂve heard itÂs one of those things you either LOVE or HATE  and I HATE it, but I did grow it one year trying to grow my own supply of coriander! It bolted immediately when it got warm outÂwhich worked for me since I didnÂt want the leaves anyway, but the seeds were very small and difficult to remove from the stems, and they didnÂt seem to have the same flavor as store bought, so I bought a bottle  and no more cilantro for me! But it is definitely a cool/cold season crop, so I recommend also winter sowing it now.

And dill is a cool/cold season crop too, so I recommend winter sowing that now too. I direct sowed a couple plants last year, but I wound up with so many seedling coming up from the previous year (AFTER completely turning the soil over in that area) that I really wouldnÂt have needed to. They were all over the place! I LOVE to touch-and-sniff dill when IÂm walking by, so, unless they were in the way of something, I just let them grow here and there among my tomatoes and other stuff. Since itÂs a "lacy" type plant, it doesnÂt mess with the sunlight for anything else. This year IÂm not intentionally planting any. IÂm just gonna wait for them to come up by themselves.

I was out watering today too! Watered ALL the perennials in the backyard. It took a good hour and a half with a hose, going back and forth and back and forth so it would soak in as deeply as possible. Because of the warm weather, a lot of my stuff is starting to grow already, and IÂm really pleased with the way it all looks. I know some of the leaves growing now are gonna take a hit when it gets cold again, but at some point the new leaves will make it and take off. Can hardly wait!

Skybird

Terry, I've been thinking about dragging out the hose, turning the water on and washing some of this dirty snow away!! I guess there's already enuf MUD without doing that . . .

Too dry for the parsley, that makes sense but thyme?!?

Transplanting cilantro and dill has to be too tricky for most of us. But, David needs to tell you about growing cilantro in containers, year-around. Dill could be started in a container and set out. There never seems to be enuf dill (cept when you dont need it ;o).

The perennial herbs could all be started early - 6 weeks before last frost or maybe earlier. Oregano, thyme and parsley can be set out before the danger of frost is past but may not benefit from doing that. Whatever the case, if they start to look rootbound - harden them off and set them out most anytime in the Spring.

. . . just my 2 cents.

digitS'

Craigslist has numerous builders who are going BK and dumping their stock. This weekend I'm picking up some cheap storm windows to make those covers Mel (SFG guy) made out of 2x4s. This will allow us to start herbs (incl basil & cilantro) in the raised beds on Apr 15, one month before last frost. I'm not sure I'll be successful at picking up a sliding glass door, but if so that will be the pepper area, they are started now and will repot into 3" this weekend with the 5 1/2 year-old lending her expertise.

I'm dragging out the hoses too, as soon as this wind dies down, as there's yet another warm spell coming - done it twice so far this winter ;o(

Dan

I wouldn't waste indoor space on the herbs, well, for me I need all of my available space for peppers and tomatoes, but pretty much all of the herbs wintersow (outdoors in mini-greenhouses) very well. I've already put out cilantro, marjoram, and winter savory, and my next batch will include dill, and parsley. I guess I should check the herb garden and see if my thyme made it through the winter. Last year, I didn't sow any, and it didn't make it. Might need to pick up some seed. Oh, the only thing I hold off on until April is basil. That one will croak at the first sign of frost after germination. Since we're talking herbs, has anyone grown safflower? I've got some seeds for that one, but haven't tried it before. Anything I need to know?

Our snow has finally melted, but all everything's still pretty muddy, so I'm thankful I haven't had to water anything ... yet.

Bonnie

I've grown safflower, Bonnie! But, I've never thought of it as an herb. My interest wasn't the seeds either but that must be where its usefulness lies.

As a flower, even to cut for drying - it left something to be desired . . .

Planted it about 10 years ago, starting in the greenhouse. I don't recall any problems. It is an annual.

S'

All your talk of snow makes me jealous...not that I want snow, but we sure do need the moisture. I am suffering from the cold that has gone around my entire dept. so can't handle too much exertion but need to finish the watering I started yesterday. The wind is picking up so not sure if I will get it done today. Thanks for all the herb advice. I think I will just buy plants since I only need one of each. Use my lights for the tomatoes and peppers.
Terry

Digit, according to Richter's Herbs it's most commonly grown for the oil that's made from the seeds, and used as a dye, but can also be used as a saffron substitute in rice dishes. I was hoping it was prettier than what you described, since it matched my color scheme : )

Bonnie

Happy almost Spring everyone! I hope you all are fabulous. I started seedlings in late January. So far I've got 4 types of tomatos, 5 types of peppers, spinach, romaine lettuce, arugala, mesculin, basil, chives, onions (white bunching and walla walla) cilantro, brocolli, cauliflower, Squash, cucumbers, brussel sprouts, Quinoa, marigolds, snapdragons, and Morning Glorys (which are very funny as they lay down at night and stand up tall during the day.) I am moving them each day from the house to the greenhouse and then back to the house at night. So far I am very pleased. Out of my 120+ plants only 4 have not sprouted yet. So far this year I've had my best track record ever. I have no idea why I have been so lucky. Wishing each and everyone of you a great day.
XOXO,
JillyBillyG

JillyBillyG, on just a little aside - have you "punched" the soil out of your cinder blocks yet? And, how did they work as planters?

I was happy enuf how the petunias grew in Dad's yard but those blocks were sure heavy and the soil tuff to get out. May have an idea if'n you are having trouble with the task.

digitS'

Hi Digit,
My cinderblocks with the snapdragons grew unbelievably. Infact they are still green from last year. I harvested the seeds and started a bunch of new snapdragons this year. I was hoping just to cut them back and watch them grown this year. Do you think I need to "punch" out the dirt and start over this year? XOXO, Jilly Billy

Hmmmm, well I have snaps each year but they are always plenty dead by the time I dig out the bed in the Spring. The only exceptions have been where they have been protected by rose bushes and by me piling snow on them thru the Winter.

The blocks worked really well for petunias but those plants also expired. Not much soil in those blocks (8by16) but I do suppose that, what is really a perennial like the snaps are - should be able to get their roots under the blocks to take advantage of the soil there.

Punching them out is work because they must weigh 50 lbs each if they are standard blocks. But if the plants in them are happy from year-to-year, that's great!

Time for me to start snaps in the warmth of the kitchen - today!!

I remember years ago starting snaps on the 17th of Feb. It was below zero the night before but I'd calculated that the time was right. Not wanting to transplant up from 6 packs - was a real problem that year. The message with below zero weather in late February was that it would be a LATE Spring. 'Deed it was! Poor little snaps struggled on too many weeks in their pony packs.

digitSteve

Just started my Red Savinas, some other hot/large peppers and herbs today. Those things take the longest to develop in this climate. Will start other peppers and tomatoes in two weeks or so.

Coriander/cilantro is best planted here (I've found) in partial shade. I start them mid-May, use peat pots for minimal root disturbance. Bolting is greatly reduced, harvest time extended. Direct planting is great, too, but not so reliable if using shade control.

Oh, yeah....if anyone has any surplus Egyptian onions sets they'd like to trade for Savina seedlings this spring or a packet of fresh seeds later in the year, let me know.

Ive never grown them in concrete blocks, but I have snaps that are green all winter every year. It surprised me the first year, and now I just kind of assume itId be surprised if it didnt happen. With the old ones, its usually the new growth at the base thats evergreen. If Ive cut them way back in fall and theyve had time to regrow some, thats whats there over winter, and it I didnt get around to cutting them down, the old top usually browns but they usually stay green toward the bottom, and, weather permitting, they start to grow some at the base over winter. And also any seedlings that have gotten a start in late summer or fall are evergreen all winter. I cant be sure they all make it over winter, because theyre growing all over the place since I just let them reseed wherever, but there are always plenty that are evergreen and get a really early start in spring, and there are many, many more seedlings that come up in spring. For somebody who wants a spot that reseeds and just keeps going year after year, I way recommend snapsand Id probably add mixed color California poppies to the snaps and just sit back and enjoy them year after year. And every year Im amazed, but theres one place in front of the house (south side) where a few got started and more and more come back every year. Its in the rock mulch that I havent been able to get rid of yet, so theyre growing in whatever little bit of soil is under the rocks on top of the landscape fabricand I NEVER water out there. I never, ever would have thought snaps could grow in a hot, dry place with absolutely no water! My guess is that youre going to have seedlings galore coming up in the blocks where they were growing last year!

As long as the soil in your concrete blocks isnt a total mass of roots, Jilly, I think youre fine to just keep replanting in it. The only time Ive had a problem reusing soil in a "container" was when it had turned into such a hard, compacted mass because of all the roots that it wouldnt hold water anymore. And that was the pot on my front porch where I have the purple fountain grass, which is 14" in diameter by 15" high, so even in a big pot that happens, and in your smaller concrete "squares" itll happen faster. As long as you can still "fluff up" the soil it should work fine. When it starts getting "hard" youll find its a LOT easier to keep them watered over summer if you replace the soil. (Im assuming you filled the squares with a potting or container mixdont remember if you said!) I didnt realize a pot as big as mine would get that compacted, and couldnt figure out why it was so hard to keep wet. Now I know I need to replace the soil probably every couple years to make them easy to care for.

Hi Mizz! Just saw your post welcome to RMG! Somebody brought a bunch of Egyptian onions to last years Fall Swap. Any chance youd be interested in driving down here for one of this years swaps? If AliceG8 comes again, the two of you could possibly meet in Ft. Collins and drive down together! I dont remember who brought them, but if the same person comes to one or both of the swaps this year, I bet they could be "coerced" into bringing some for you! I got a small one at the Fall Swap, but its still in the potso its not multiplying yet! But by the Fall Swap I should be able to divide off enough for you to get a start.

Time to head out to the yard! Its a BEAUTIFUL day, and I have stuff to do!
Skybird

Just an update on what I've planted-- I started some heirloom tomatoes (thanks to gardenweb members who sent me seeds) in 2 batches. The first batch is about 1" tall and under grow lights. The second batch, (planted Saturday) is in the gas oven staying warm. I had good germination on the first group. Only one or two seeds in each cell and most germinated. Still waiting on a few. Some came up in the past couple days so they are still trying.

Any advice on planting beets? I have seen posts for planting both inside and outside in this climate. Not sure about when. I know it's hard to transplant root crops but it's harder to keep them moist. So, if I were to plant indoors, should I do it now? Do you have to wait for outdoor sowing? Or plant around the same time as peas?

Thanks!

Hi Terry,

I dont know about starting them insideIve never tried thatand even if I did, Im REALLY bad about getting things transplanted, so theyd probably die or get too big before I got them outside. I plant mine outside when I plant my first batch of stuff like spinach, lettuce, and peas, and since I plant them fairly deeply, I havent had that much trouble keeping the beets moist. Lettuce, yeah, but beets, not too bad. Heres a link to a chart (last page) that tells when you can/should plant whatoutside, if thats what you decide to do. You might want to try Digits "plank" system to keep them moist! That was you, digit, wasnt it? Or was it David? Somebody will respond to tell you what Im talking about!!!

Skybird

P.S. Thank you to whoever originally posted that veggie planting guide link. I find it very useful!

Not me! I've tried the plank method for slow-to-germinate seed but if you are "really bad about getting things transplanted" - I'm really BAD about looking under things like boards. Oh, my!!

David will have to tell us if he will be continuing to use his transplanting technique or let that "go by the board" since he's probably more attentive, curious, and less easily frightened than I am.

It was 5°F at 8AM this morning, so I'm a little discouraged. The heat hasn't been turned on in the greenhouse yet but when it is . . . !

It was 22° at 8 in there. Even now, after over 3 hours of clear sky and "blazing" sunlight: it's only 67°. (Of course, yesterday [before I caught it] the temp in there went up above 90°!!)

It brings up the issue of indoor growing temperatures and it may help to comment on them.

Look, we are about the only "hot house plants" that have a 70°F plus comfort level . . . orchids, huh? Most of our temperate garden plants want, well, temperate temps. This is especially true with limited light. And light is limited by glass or plastic even in a sunny window on a sunny day.

Heat on the other hand, causes weak growth and streeettcchhing . . . The less sunlight, please, the less warmth (within reason). Most plant starts grow best down in the low 60's. NOT, near 80° like it is here in this south window, where I'm sitting right now.

It occurs to me that most gardeners have experience with buying and setting transplants out long before they start growing there own from seed. They see the tomatoes turn purple in the cold then brighten and begin to thrive with warm weather.

Take a look at when that might be for your outdoor garden. Let's say it's the 1st of June. What is the average daily temperature outdoors on June 1. Here, it is in the 50's. Okay, let's say for my garden those tomatoes begin to thrive the 15th of June. By that time, the average daily is 63°. I'll go with that indoors - not much below and not too much above.

Now that I've rambled on, I don't have time to proof-read.

digitS'

I'm back and please forgive my diction and interruption. The only thing I see that I've misspelled is: "streeettcchhing." But, that's what we are trying to avoid!

Your plants will be so much happier if you don't try to put clothes on them or warm them up to where you are comfortable in your birthday suit.

That's true with tomatoes, it is a little less true with peppers, and it is just "barely" true with eggplants. I'll allow you to frolic around with the basil, if'n you really want to. Basil likes it warm.

Some things that don't really like it warm are the greens. Look, if they are happy and growing outdoors during the cool season, pushing them along at 80° almost isn't healthy. I can't separate things too much in my little greenhouse between cool-season and warm-season veggies but I can a little. Unfortunately, my cabbage and broccoli are sometimes pretty leggy by the time they go outdoors. I've even had them break in the wind after they go out into the open garden sometimes breaking very late in their season.

Finally, bedding plants in flats do not have much room for themselves. The angle of the sun is still pretty low and they probably won't be getting enuf of it. So, they'll all be "leaning" towards the sun, even if they aren't really streeettcchhing towards it. If you start turning the flats like you do with your houseplants, those little seedlings may tie themselves in knots. I gave up on the idea of turning them a long time ago. I move them in and out on warm days but set them right back down the same way every time.

Just some ideas and my 2 cents worth . . . You will all find your plants very best nook and niche, trick and technique, and every year is another learning year.

digitS'