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vladn2000

Planting 30 Austrian pines, need advice

vladn2000
14 years ago

Hi All,

I am planting 30 Austrian Pine seedlings (about 1 foot high) this April -- all of them are going to be planted without additional irrigation. I have some questions about planting procedures though, I want to make sure that all pines get the best chance of survival:

1. I am going to dig a hole 3 times diameter, saucer shaped.

2. I am going to use mulch, this is no brainer.

Here are areas where I am not 100% sure:

1. Should I use polymer? (http://www.dcconservation.com/GrowthAids/polymer.htm). As I mentioned there will be no additional irrigation and I plan on making sure to water all trees regularly during the first couple of seasons. After that, I only plan on doing occasional watering during hot spells.

2. Should I use fertilizer tablets (1 per tree) ?

3. Should I put weed fabric around the tree (mulch on top of weed fabric) -- I want to give trees the best chance to compete against grass/weeds, but some say that by putting weed fabric I will be destroying bacterial flora between soil and mulch which is supposedly bad.

4. Should I slightly amend the soil ? I know by amending the soil (mostly clay) I will be discouraging the roots to go outside of the hole, but I am talking about slight amending, maybe 1 part of garden soil to 4 parts of native soil.

My apologies if I posted to the wrong forum, I thought specifics of tree planting in Rocky Mountains area justify posting here. Please let me know if you think I should rather post in different forum.

Thanks for your help ! Davie.

Comments (7)

  • david52 Zone 6
    14 years ago

    You came to the right place. I planted a couple hundred trees from these guys.

    1. I'd dig the holes now, or as soon as you can. But no need to get it much bigger than a shovel in diameter, foot deep. Because the day the trees come, it will be miserable weather, the ground will be nothing but mud balls. Promise.

    2. mulch - see below.

    not so sure bits:

    1) I'd skip the polymer, particularly if you can water them for the first 2 years.

    2) I'd use the fertilizer pills as an insurance policy.

    3) the weed barrier is the magic. It's also the most expensive component. If you can get it down, it will preserve the soil moisture, snuff the weeds, and the trees will grow 2X or 3X faster. Ignore all stuff about microflora - the tress love it. If the trees are in a row, then just figure out how much of the 4' wide stuff you need so the mulch is down 8' thick, then staple it around the holes, don't cut it.
    The Soil Conservation is by far and away the cheapest place to get this mulch and the pins to hold it down. When we did ours, we couldn't afford it that year. We put it down on half the trees the next spring, and in two years, the difference was so amazing we put it everywhere we have trees - in the orchard, all the Soil C. trees. But its a whole lot easier to put it down over empty holes than later, around live trees.

    4 - I wouldn't amend the soil. The roots will be forced to grow out and find water and nutrients, making for a stronger tree.

    And a final word of caution. These things are deer magnets. The little plastic protectors they sell are *ok*, but pretty useless pretty quick, like just as soon as the tops out grow them. I'd invest in a length of field fence, and make 8 foot diameter rings around the trees and stake them down.

    All of a sudden, those trees aren't that inexpensive, huh. But it's still the best deal around. They don't do much the first two years, then they take off. Mine (I used Scotts Pine and Green Ash) are all well over 25 feet high and make a wonderful noise, sight, and wind barrier, Awesome kite trap, too.

  • Dan _Staley (5b Sunset 2B AHS 7)
    14 years ago

    The BH and I plant literally hundreds of trees a year, and thank you for doing it! The birds and critters will thank you as well.

    I second the deer protection. And third. My friend in Eastern WA swears by 4 long rebar around each tree, as apparently deer don't like it for some reason. I've always done fence like david described. Don't do the sleeve bit as what pops out the top gets eaten, and you don't want forked crowns. Protect from deer. Did I mention deer protection? ;o)

    Amending at a 1:4 is way too much and you'll get differential settling & be unhappy. You don't need to do it, but if you must a 1:8-10 is much better. But save your money on amendments and spend it elsewhere. Save your money on the polymer as well and spend it on something else (even though I'm pushing Denver to trial it in new plantings).

    A wider hole is better than deeper. A 1' seedling only has roots maybe 8" deep if in a dee pot. No deeper than root ball. You can go as wide as you wish, but don't go wider than your 4-foot weed fabric.

    I agree with the weed fabric bit as well. There are already critters in the soil and they'll get to the mulch eventually but what is more important is weed suppression. If you don't do that, you've lost before you start. Do a woven fiber fabric, not the fossil-fuel material with the holes in it. We did a large reveg project along a highway in CA and most of our energy was in weed suppression. 90%. Do this part right.

    Don't do the fertilizer tablet. Do the encapsulated granular (slow-release pellets) with a low first number (low nitrogen), like a 5-10-10 and do about 1/2 - 2/3 the label application. You want an even spread of nutrients, not a ton in one place and you don't want top growth yet. Back in the day when I drove a shovel for a (barely) living, we used to break up the tablets because slow-release wasn't on the market at the time.

    Just after you dig your hole, fill with water. Then put the lil' guy in, backfill halfway, water, finish backfill, water. Don't skimp here, as I expect this summer to come quickly and hot.

    One thing I'll ask: David, did you get bunny/rodent/critter nibbling around the trunk base when you did yours?

    Dan

  • david52 Zone 6
    14 years ago

    Not so much, Dan. But I seem to be the exception around here, and those little woven protectors should keep the wabbits away.

    I think I've related how we got 90 of the pine trees and spent a miserable day in driving sleet digging holes and planting them, only to wake up the next morning to find that the deer had gone along and eaten off or pulled every one of them out. Chuckling merrily Those Rascals!! , we did what we could to repair the damage, and remembered to put up protection the next spring when we replaced them.

  • vladn2000
    Original Author
    14 years ago

    David and Dan,

    Thank you so much for taking time to respond and for invaluable advice !

    It might be pretty strange, but we don't have a deer problem you seem to have -- we do have plenty of deer, but they seem to be well behaved (perhaps because area is pretty urbanized). In 5 years we lived at this property I never saw a single case of deer eating pines. I have about a half-dozen mature (30') Austrian pines and about another dozen young (1') Austrian pines I planted last year. None of them have been touched and this year has been a pretty bad for deer food wise. They always find something else to eat around my property (plenty of other bushes/trees). But I will certainly keep an eye on them !

    I am not going to amend soil, have no reason to do it, just thought slight amendment might be beneficial since most of the soil is clay.

    I will put in weed fabric for sure now, great news here since I've been also contemplating on removing weed fabric from a dozen of Austrian pines I planted last year !

    I am still puzzled over why I should not use polymer. If cost was not an issue ($5 per 1/2 lb, covers 60 seedlings) would you reconsider. I can't see any harm from using it, yet there is potentially a great benefit :)

    Thanks again for your help !

  • Dan _Staley (5b Sunset 2B AHS 7)
    14 years ago

    If you can get a corn/bio-based polymer for that cheap, then go for it, esp if you aren't buying deer fence. In my view your money should be spent on fabric and mulch then fert. Everything after that is a bonus (even tho I'm pushing hard for Denver to trial DriWater...ahem...cough) .

    Dan

  • david52 Zone 6
    14 years ago

    vladn2000, I dunno what or why the deer suddenly start to go after pine trees, it's not like they're some deer candy like roses or tulips. Most years, they just leave them alone. When they're the diameter of your arm, the bucks will use them as scrapes to polish their horns up for the rut. But....

    My good friends up the road planted a half mile of Austrian pines as a wind break, did that 8' dia fence with rebar and chicken wire, and 8 years later, when the tree branches had reached the barrier, my friend thought it would be ok to remove them. The county soil conservation guy concurred. The deer killed them all that winter - just gnawing the lower branches clean. He was sick.

    And its a bit of a running joke around here where the property developers go plug in some 15' high Ponderosa pine trees around the entrance to their new development, and we all watch them get gnawed dead the first few weeks.

    In the early spring when the branch tips are just about to start their candle growth, there must be something sweet in there because the deer will come along and nip off the last inch. Which can seriously stunt the tree.

    I think there is something else where the relatively well irrigated and fed 'domestic' trees have a better nutrient content than that scraggly pine out there growing in a crack in a granite boulder.

    So I dunno. I'd sure recommend you protect them from the deer and not have a nasty surprise a few years down the road. And if you don't need them, you can shake your fist at me, and mutter about ......idiot advice I got on the internet..... as you bundle them up to throw out.:-)

  • vladn2000
    Original Author
    14 years ago

    David,

    I suspect that we have a lot of alternative vegetation that deer prefer to pine needles :) The area is well developed with lots of non-evergreen vegetation. I had a buck sitting 5 feet from my window all morning right next to Austrian pine and he couldn't care less. Maybe they are just trying to be good neighbors :).

    Well, I guess I can't complain -- less expense for me, hopefully !