You are so generous -- thank you!

Well, the soil was fairly amended in the summer of '07, so I'm not so concerned about that. The shade is good, but I did NOT water at all winter of '07-'08 and I never watered them until this month when I started handwatering everything.

I do know that two (I've five) of them were dead last spring ('08) -- the other three awoke but it was clear those two were goners. We used a landscaping company to implement our plan (I really mean MY plan, but since my husband is interested in it I should share credit) and they have a one-year warranty, so they replaced the two sad heucheras. Tomorrow I'll go out and really root around them and see if there's any sign of life. When I was poking around the other week there was zip, nada, rien. I do like them but if they are dead then it'll be time for me to move on to a different plant.

The ice plants we have, well, you know I cannot recall what they are but they are doing great -- I also planted them. (And I do mean I planted -- the big stuff [junipers, trees, inc. the hardscaping] the company planted, but I wanted to do all the little stuff. Nothing against them, but I really enjoy doing it! I love gardening.) Oh yeah, anyway, so whatever kind the ice plants are (I got them at O'Toole's in Westminster) they have that beautiful fuchsia flower. They were planted in the summer of '07 and they came back in '08 and have come back this spring as well. I just left the brown fluff on them in case of any more frost -- I wanted them to have a blanket, so to speak. I'm not worried about anything else, for whatever reason.

I'm concerned some of my coneflowers also haven't come back, but I'm going to wait and see. Time will tell, and then I'll have a ball shopping and planting!

I appreciate so much your making the time to write so in-depth about heucheras and ice plants, skybird.

Thank you.

Hi, rmkitchen! I fell in love with all of the colorful new Heucheras that were coming out these past couple of years, but have about decided that they aren't worth the trouble. Several gradually dwindled away, probably due to the fact that I planted them in full sun, though these were advertised as being tolerant of the sun. They few that seemed okay with the full sun exposure, have gotten eaten repeatedly by the deer. I moved the last few to the backyard where it is somewhat shady, to give them one more chance, but I would love to find a more suitable substitute.

Don't give up on the coneflowers yet! They are one of the last things to wake up in the spring. I just saw the tiniest bit of green on a couple of mine today. The ones closest to the house come up first, and the more exposed ones are later.

Skybird shared both of the iceplants pictured above with me, and they have both made it through the winter just fine. The other one I have is Delosperma congestum, which is a yellow one. If you can make it to the Spring Swap, I can bring you some, if you'd like.

{{gwi:239280}}

Bonnie

I have some fantastic Huechera that have now spread such that each plant is at least a foot in dia, and I've dug some of these up and divided, and replanted them. They're on the NE side of the house, shade in the afternoon, and the best ones are in a spot that stays covered with snow in the winter and near a down spout. So I assume they like to stay relatively moist in the winter. I've one variety, 'Coral Bells', that blooms all summer. To get established, they needed a pretty rich bed - lots of compost, peat. Afterwards, they'll do better with a really heavy mulch of compost every year that seems to last until next spring and its gone, and it's noticeable when I don't put the compost on.

Ditto the info on Ice plant - its fun, and very easy to propagate - as in stick it in the ground and water it for a few weeks.

Ive been looking over your pictures very carefully on the other thread, Kitchen, and from what I see and what youve written there, and from what youve said here, Im pretty sure the problems youre having are from lack of water. Even if youve started hand watering recently, hand watering only waters the top couple inches of soil, and you need to be getting the water deep enough that its BELOW the bottom of the existing roots. This is something you NEVER would have encountered in San Fran. Even in a drought out there, the soil is never going to dry out as deeply and thoroughly as it does around here even in a "normal" year, and this has been anything but a normal year. With as warm as its been, and our virtual total lack of precip this yearand then all the WIND weve had this year, every little bit of moisture has been sucked out of the soil. Even looking at the one hyacinth in the pic on the other thread, I suspect the foliage is browning because the bulb is becoming dessicated.

If Im right about the dryness, it completely explains the problems youre having with the Heuchera. And, is that just a trick of the light, or are the boxwoods getting sunburned too? Are some of the leaves a light tan, or do they just look that way in the pic?

If Im right, I have a solution for you! It may not help everything, but it should help many of themand it wont hurt any of the things you have. You may not be able to do this until the storm theyre predicting for Thursday comes and goesand the snow, if we really do get some this timemelts, but after all that happens, set a small hose-end sprinkler in each of the areas with plants and turn it on for 15 to 20 minutes. Wait an hour and repeat. Wait another hour and repeat again! Im serious. Even if its amended, water soaks into clay soil very slowly. In order to water DEEPLY you need to water slowly. By doing it 20 minutes at a time and waiting before turning the sprinkler on again, the water you just put down has time to completely soak in before you give it more. If theres too much at one time, itll just run off around the edges. Based on what youve said, Id actually recommend repeating the cycle four times, but if you want to see how much good 3 times did, wait till the following day and find a place between plants in the middle of the bed and dig down into the soil AT LEAST 8-10". Take some soil out of the bottom of the hole and try to form it into a (snow) ball in your hand. If it doesnt form a ball, you have more watering to doslowly. If it forms a ball that easily crumbles between your fingers, it could still use a little bit more in this case, and if it forms a ball that doesnt easily crumble, youve watered deeply enough. From what I see in the pics, you have a lot of little areas, and its gonna take a while, but I think youll be delighted with the results.

Peonies are tough things! When I moved in here, the previous owners (actually, I think it was a landscape company) had put peonies in the whisky barrels of all places. At the end of the first summer I dug them up and stuck them in 2-gallon pots. Because my whole world was covered with landscape fabric and ROCK, I didnt have anywhere to plant them and they stayed in the pots for two winters! The second winter we got a lot of snowafter the soil in the pots had frozen! Then the snow melted and filled up the pot all the way to the top with water! Then the water, which couldnt run out the bottom because the soil was frozen, froze solidand I had peony pops! I didnt see it until it was too late, and I was sure they were gonners. I laid the pots on their side (had to knock one of them over with a brick since it was frozen to the ground!) So the water would run out when it melted again, but they continued their life as ice cubes for a long time! In spring I moved the pots to a spot out of the way and just ignored them, but, much to my amazement, less than a month later they started to grow! Peonies are tough things!!!

I suspect your roots have just become too dessicated for them to start growing, like the one has. I really think if they get a good drink and have time to rehydrate, theyll probably still come up for you. I really think a good, DEEP watering will make your plantsand you, very, very happy.

Just an additional note on the Heuchera! Mine is right by the bird bath that I keep filled all winter, and whenever its warm enough I fill the birdbath with the hose outside. This year thats been a LOT! And, since I already have the hose in my hand, the Chocolate Ruffles gets some water every timealong with the Bergenia, drumstick primroses, regular primroses, and Siberian irisall nearbyfor a reason! Heucheras like a lot of water, even the green "coral bells" ones. They cant be grown as bog plants like the others Ive named above, but they definitely do not like to get dry. Youre still on the learning curve for dryland gardening, but youll get it figured out! :-) I grew up in Illinoiswhere you NEVER water the grassOR the veggie garden (half a bucket of water on transplants!) And, having lived "part time" in San Fran, I never will figure out the people there! The girl I lived with, who lived on a canal in Foster City, watered her lawn every couple days (most of the water ran off into the canal!) It was a diseased looking mass of moss! On the other hand, the plants she had under a large overhang by the front door NEVER got watered! (And were out of reach of the rain!) When shed be gone on a trip and Id be there, Id set the hose on a trickle and slowly move it from plant to plant, leaving it at each for a half an hour. Then theyd look good again for a few weeks. I felt SO sorry for those plantsand the lawn! Luckily for me, Ive been out here in Denver since 64, so Im starting to figure out this high, dry stuff! ;-)

Was/is your iceplant one of the purple ones? From the looks of it, Im guessing it wasand if you got them at OTooles, its most likely that theyre the "original" purple iceplant. Im virtually certain OTooles buys in all their stock, which means its all pretty basic stuff. They tend to have more die back than the others I mentioned above, and I bet youll have fun if you start trying some of the others and mix and match them. And the purple ones seem to like to be kept wetter than the others, so Im betting even they will love a good drink.

One more thing, if Im interpreting your pictures correctly, it looks, in some of them, like there isnt a whole lot of mulch covering the soil. I recommend at least a couple inches thick. Thatll help conserve moisture once you get the soil thoroughly watered again. Anything you can do out here to conserve soil moisture is a good thingfor your plants, and for your water bill.

Oh, and about the coneflowers, I think theyre probably too dry too, but dont start worrying about things being dead yet. Most years most of these things wouldnt be coming up for a month or two yet! Many things are just way, way early this year because of the warm winter. So water themand wait for them!

Hope I havent scared you off with all this! If you have any questions, just ask!

Hang in there,
Skybird

Oh my gosh -- you all are so incredibly generous with your knowledge and time -- thank you!!!

I think the root of all my planting problems (okay, most) is the fact that I do not water in the winter. With everything blown out (we've netafim and drip) I'd assumed one didn't need to. None of my neighbors do, but if you could see their yards then you'd know that none of them are into gardening or take their yards too seriously. (I am NOT putting them down, but they have different loves and gardening isn't one of them. Fair enough: I'm not a mountain biker.)

I have to say I am in love with most of the folks at O'Toole's in Westminster; I find them to be so helpful, so patient and so knowledgeable. I think you're right that the ice plants I got from them (which are doing well going into their second spring -- I just love those succulent green bits!) are from a random grower (not home grown, so to speak), but since they're happy here okay by me!

Oh, but anyway, it was the folks at O'Toole's who told me to get one of those deep-watering spikes (not sure what to call them) and to do it once a month (on trees and bushes). So I've been doing that, but it honestly never, ever occurred to me that I'd need to do all the other plants as well. Now I know and fall / winter '09-'10 will be better. With time I'm learning. I mean, with time and with this incredible forum!

So I'll just keep an eye on the heuchera for now and if they don't make it then I might just try one more time (buying new), watering next winter and seeing what happens then. Maybe third time will be the charm!

Thank you also for the tips about watering and mulch. Because our front yard slopes (slightly) we figured out pretty early on to do five minutes every hour, every day. What a difference! When I was first doing the traditional forty-five minutes the ground at the bottom of the slope was overly drenched, and some of the plants higher up were thirsty. The slope, coupled with the clay (even though it was amended and rototilled in), were the culprits. Watering in short increments allows the water to be absorbed and nothing to get overwatered or underwatered.

Last spring and again soon we'll be spreading out more mulch -- the wind and the slopes kinda take a toll by the end of the season (or by the time we're ready to put more mulch on). I guess we should hop on that -- I'd been thinking I could wait until April or May but we'll just get cracking now. Thank you for that reminder!

This was part of our CA backyard:

A part of me really misses it -- it was beautiful and I am so crazy-proud of what we did there. We did it all, with the exception of two old trees. I mean we planned it all and did a lot (most) of the work ourselves. (The only things we didn't do ourselves were terrace it, build the steps, and do the base and laying of the crazy quilt slate patio / walk. But my husband did all our irrigation and I did the bulk of the planting [he helped with the trees]. Our first Valentine's in that house he gave me a rototiller, and I used it like mad!) Of course, it was before we had children so what a difference that makes! I spent so much time researching plants and was disappointed by none of it. Everything worked, and nothing died.

But we didn't have our water shut off all fall / winter / spring, so if we didn't get enough rain it was a piece of cake to turn something on.

Thank you for indulging me this walk down memory lane ....

But more than that, Thank You for all the great insight and tips. It all makes terrific sense, and because of you I know what to do differently.

About the coneflowers - I have an echinacea (I'm assuming the common purpurea) that had what looked like dry purple worms around the old growth for about three weeks and in the last couple of days the green leaves have opened; so definitely give it some more time.

Jen