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skybirdforever

Reflections on Compost!

Sing a song of sixpence,

A pocket full of loam!

four and twenty earthworms

finding a new home...............

Who but me could write a four page dissertation about compost! And who but a true garden nut would be interested in reading it! Heres my tome! Come share YOUR compost stories with everyone!

Within the last week I dismantled my compost pile, screened the black gold on the bottom, and put everything else back where it belongs! I started my brand new "no work" style compost pile about three years ago in spring after the year I moved in! I always had hope, but for the first couple years it seemed impossible that I would ever have a really "useable" quantity of finished compost. As I said above, itÂs a "no work," throw it on a pile and let it rot, type compost pile. About the only thing I do to help it is to wet it down fairly often in summer. Over the last couple years I have dug down into it in various places near the front of the pile to removeÂfairly smallÂquantities of finished compost. This year I wanted to get as much as I could to work into my veggie garden before planting, so it was now or never!

When I started, the pile was 6' wide by almost 4' deep by a little over 4' front to back. This isnÂt the best picture since it was actually taken to show my winter sown flats right after I put them out there, but you can at least get an idea of the size. By the time I started this project I had added a bunch more stuff on top that I had been cutting down in the backyard, and you couldnÂt see the pumpkins at all anymoreÂthere was a lot of totally undigested stuff on top of the pile. While it had a gotten squshed down a lot over winter, most of the fall-added stuff hadnÂt even started decomposing yet, which I sort of expected, but since I had wet the pile down really well a couple times over winter, I thought at least some of it might have started decomposing. (Click any picture to enlarge)

The first thing I found that surprised me was the cottonwood leaves! Since I just put whatever I have at the moment on top of the pile, everything is in layersÂat least all the things I have any quantity of! When I got the really recent things off of the topÂincluding the pumpkins, which really surprised me when I stuck the fork into the first one, Âcause I had completely forgotten they were thereÂI ran into the fairly thick layer of cottonwood leaves. What surprised me was that there were places where the leaves looked exactly as they had when I put them on the pile. If I had spread them back around on the grass, you wouldnÂt have even been able to tell they had been on the pile all winter. They were COMPLETELY dry, and didnÂt even look like they had been smashed together all winter. And other patches of them were TOTALLY dripping saturated and had been compressed together into inch thick, tough layers of cottonwood leaf leather. What surprised me even more was that when I started to pull these leather layers apart, they were absolutely packed with wormsÂred wrigglers I think is what theyÂre called. I never would have expected worms to be thriving in such a wet (and cold) environment! The wet patches of leaves were so wet that they smelled SO BAD I could hardly believe it! It was the only part of the pile that smelled at all (except for some onions that had been recently thrown out!) In the future IÂll probably try to find enough stuff to mix in with the cottonwood leaves that theyÂre not just all on a separate layer by themselves so theyÂll, hopefully, start to decompose more quickly. I think it would be a really good idea to create a separate little "soggy cottonwood leaf worm farm," but since I donÂt know what made the difference between the leaves that stayed totally dry and the ones that got saturated, IÂm not sure how to do that. With my luck, the leaves IÂd intend for the worm farm would stay dry!

After forking all the unrotted and half rotted stuff off of the topÂmore than half of the pile, and a major job all by itself, I thought IÂd be able to just shovel some of it up as useable compost. Disappointment! Since I throw anything organic on the pile it includes things like all the small cottonwood branches that fall off of my neighborÂs trees, and, while I do break them up into pretty small pieces, they still decompose much more slowly than the leaves and kitchen waste, so virtually all of the pile on the bottom had undigested stuff mixed in with the good stuff. To solve this problem I found one of my pea trellises from last yearÂone made with 1" chicken wire that I wasnÂt gonna use for a trellis again this year anyway, laid it over the top of a BIGÂnursery sizeÂpot, and started screening the stuff. What a job! A couple shovelfuls on the wire, and then shake and rub till all the fine stuff falls thru. I wonÂt be doing this again till next spring sometime, but by then IÂm gonna build some sort of a "real" screen with a 1 X 2 frame or something sturdier than the bamboo stakes that framed the chicken wire this time. ItÂll be a lot easier. And IÂll probably use a somewhat smaller screen too, since a lot of the small, broken up pieces of sticks and perennial stems fell thru the chicken wire and had to be "raked up" and taken out of the pot after every couple shovelfuls. A smaller screen will make it harder in some ways, and easier in some other ways. IÂm tempted to quit throwing the bigger stuff on the pile, but IÂm not gonna do that! It seems to me that the more variety you have in the pile, the better the ultimate product will be.

Some of the other "problem" type things I put on the pile are the hibiscus stems which get up to an inch in diameter and take, easily, a couple years to decompose. I still need to cut the hibiscus from last summer down, and IÂm thinking of breaking them up into pieces and throwing them into a BIG bucket of water to soak for a couple days before adding them to the compost pile this year to see if it helps (but I think theyÂll float, so I donÂt know if thatÂll work or not!) And another problem is the stuff like Agastache, Russian sage, and lavender plants when I cut them down and throw it all on the pile in bunches of whole pieces like IÂve been doing. That kind of stuff seems to hang together WAY longer than IÂd expect it to, and I guess IÂm gonna have to start cutting it up into smaller pieces before putting it on the pile from now on. More work!

Another thing that surprised me as I was screening the compost is that every single tiny, tiny little piece of plastic or cellophane that had ever gotten into the pile was still there! That stuff is TOTALLY indestructible! There was very little of it since I try to be really careful, but apparently sometimes little pieces of plastic bags and candy wrappers and stuff blow in unnoticed. I also found that the little clumps of dog hair that had blown into my yard, which I had thrown on the pile, were still in completely unchanged form. Whoda thunk hair wouldnÂt decompose! And I also found a few carpet fibers that I had thrown in, assuming, since they were so small, that theyÂd eventually decompose. No way. They were completely unchangedÂand are now in the dumpster!

And I found something else, that I had also found on previous digs, that was like a small (about 2" x 2") semi-solid, white or light green kinda slimy mass! Last year when I was digging in the pile I had found a couple places with similar "globs," and had tried and tried to think of something I might have put on the pile that could have created what I found, and I couldnÂt come up with anything! This stuff sort of reminded me of slightly dried globs of latex paint. Well this year, when I ran into a "glob" I got up the courage to sniff it! Anybody want to take a guess? Every now and then IÂll throw a tiny little scrap of bar soap into the compost pile bag by my kitchen sinkÂand bar soap doesnÂt compost! Luckily I didnÂt do it very often, because you wouldnÂt believe what a slimy, disgusting mess it makes! I always figured it would just dissolve and act as a surfactant to help the water saturate stuff better in that area. Not! No more bar soap in the pile!

Another observation! The most worms were in the wetter and more undecomposed parts of the pile. The compost at the very bottom of the pile, which was completely decomposed, had no worms at all in it. That surprised me a little bit since IÂand probably we allÂthink of earthworms as eating earth, but I think I really knew better even before I noticed that. My compost pile is directly on the ground, which, tho I didnÂt realize it when I started it, is a really, really good thing since worms can migrate up out of the ground, and they absolutely thrive in the pile. I think thatÂs been at least as much of a benefit from my compost pile as the compost itself!

One more thing I just thought of! I have a crosscut shredder, and I always empty it onto the compost pile. Every time I empty it I wonder if itÂll decompose easily along with the vegetable matter, and it does! I couldnÂt even tell, in the pile, where the shredded paper had been. It needs to be emptied again. More compost!

Since I dumped little piles of compost here and there as I was screening it I have no way to know for sure, but I think I got at least a yard of finished compost out of the pile and spread out on top of the garden. Black gold! Now I still have to turn the whole garden over to mix it in and prep it for planting. At least IÂll feel like IÂm mixing in some really good stuff when I do it this time!

This picture was at the end of the first day when I had screened close to half of the useable compost. The big pot I was screening into is on the left, and IÂve replaced undecomposed compost where the "hole" was on the right side of the pile since I was running out of places to put all this stuff! The big pile on the leftÂand you can only see a fraction of it from this angleÂwas the rest of the undecomposed stuff that needed to be replaced eventually! And the left part of the pile back inside the silver walls was what still had to be screened. It doesnÂt look like much in the pictureÂbut it took almost three hoursÂa couple shovelfuls at a time!

After getting down to the ground at the bottom of the pile on the left side too, I replaced all the "in progress" stuff back in the compost area. Another "what a job!" While I was doing it I made sure I was mixing all the different types of material up well so there are no more "layers," and I believe it will decompose faster now that itÂs better mixed. When I got done I wound up with a pile that was 6' wide by 3' high, by about 3' front to back, and I still have four BIG bags of maple leaves to put on the pile from last fall, but I need to wait for it to settle down again to have room to add themÂbut not having them falling over onto the end of the veggie area.

Here are a couple pictures taken after I finished up. The first shows the compost spread on top of the soil (with a couple piles left where I canÂt spread it out yet because of my winter sown stuff), and the second is the close up of the pile after it was replaced in my "compost bin."



One more thing I want to add on the topic of compost! When I lived down in Parker I had one of those compost tumblersÂthe biggest sizeÂand I never got anything useable out of it. Possibly it was just that I wasnÂt tending it well enoughÂor that I didnÂt have enough stuff to put in itÂor that I didnÂt cut up the stuff I put in it well enough, but nothing ever seemed to happen to the stuff I did put in it. I wet it over and over, and it always still seemed dry. I speculated that maybe itÂs just too dry a climate for them to work well, but I donÂt now that for sure. For what it cost me, I considered it to be a big waste of money. IÂd be curious to hear if anybody else has ever had better luck with one of those.

Anybody else have any comments or observations or reflections on what theyÂve found when working with their compost?

.....when the pile was opened

the gardener did sing.

On seeing all that good black gold

her spirit did take wing!

Skybird

Comments (46)

  • stevation
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Wow, nice treatise on compost, Skybird! I'd like to get my pile working better. But I've allowed too many weeds to get thrown in it, and like you, mine is lazy compost -- not actively managed -- so the weed seeds don't get killed by heat.

    What I would LOVE to have is a good, strong chipper-shredder machine. Then I could chip those tree branches and shrub trimmings, shred those fall leaves, and really make good compost.

    Question -- is sawdust any good in compost? Or directly in the garden? With the basement framing I've been doing, I filled a five-gallon bucket with sawdust recently and dumped it out in the pile, hoping it could be useful. I'll have another bucket full in a few days.

  • Skybird - z5, Denver, Colorado
    Original Author
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hi Steve,

    When I moved in here all that was on that end of the house was a big pile of "scrap" dirt, and it was COVERED with weeds! (I think the realtor was aghast when she saw itbut I had visions of veggie garden, and could hardly wait to spread it out to make the area useable!) The first summer I spent a LOT of time trying to keep the weeds pulled out so they couldnt go to seedbut that didnt help much, and didnt help at all with things like bindweed. When I got around to leveling the pile out the first spring, I spent hours and hours and hours trying to pick out all the bindweed and other roots as I spread the soil out. Obviously I didnt get all the small pieces, and Ive been keeping after them, and every time I see a bindweed peeking out I dig it and the root out immediatelyand it IS finally getting to the point where there are very few left. The first couple years I had veggie garden there I also had to fight to get rid of the weed seedlings that kept coming upeven tho there were no more seeds being produced. That, too, is finally getting better. But, after all that mess I was determined to not introduce anymore weed seeds into the area, and when Im pulling out weeds, if theres any chance at all that they might have seeds, they go in the dumpstereven tho it seems like a waste of good organic matter. Its just too hard to get rid of them once they get into the soil. And Im not even sure Id have confidence that a hot compost pile would effectively eliminate ALL of them, so even if I had a PC pile, I dont think Id put weedswith seedson the pile. (Im really careful with putting bindweed and thistle roots on the pile too, since they can spring up like the broom in Fantasia!) So I sure would recommend not adding anything at all that you even suspect might have seeds in it. Some of the people around here say a thick layer of wet newspaper will kill most of the weeds, so you might want to try covering the top of the pile with a really thick layer of paper and keeping it saturated for a couple months to see if you can eliminate most of the weeds. Or (if you have timeyeah, sure) wet the pile to germinate as many seeds as possible, and as soon as they get a couple inches high, turn the pile to kill those and expose more of the seeds, and just keep doing that until there arent very many germinating anymore. (You wouldnt happen to have a steam boiler where you could cover the pile with plastic and run a steam line into it to steam sterilize it, would you??? ;-)

    Boy, wouldnt a chipper be wonderful. I spend so much time breaking up cottonwood branches and other big stuff. But I really hate to throw it out since it does eventually break down into really good stuff. And since the cottonwood branches are wood, I suspect your sawdust would be really good stuff to use too. I wish I had some to add to my pile. The one thing I would suggest is to spread it out as much as you can so you dont wind up with a "layer" in just one spot. As near as I could tell, having stratified layers was one of the things that slowed my pile down in spots. The more mixed up it is, I near as I could tell, the more quickly it decomposes. I probably wouldnt use it directly on the gardenunless its spread out very thinly. Since its fresh wood, if too much became mixed in, in any one area, it could bind the nitrogen in the soil. My neighbors, who are beginning gardeners, mulched their veggie garden with bark mulch two years ago, and I warned them to rake it off and not mix it into the soil at the end of the season, but they didnt believe it could cause a problem and mixed it all inand last summer they had the garden that almost wasnt! Im convinced it was because of the lack of nitrogen. By this summer it think the wood will all be decomposed enough that it shouldnt be a problem, and now theyre using grass clippings to mulch the veggies with, like I do, and that works very well since it decomposes quickly over winter.

    One other thing! When I was nearing the end of my project I started thinking that it would be a really good thing to have a HOT compost pile so it would decompose more quickly. Then it dawned on me that Id have cooked worms rather than wriggler worms, and I see the worms as a major, major contribution to my soil, so Id rather stick with my slow, cool pilefull of worms!

    Skybird

  • michelle_co
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Wow Skybird, nice article! :-) You could submit that to Mother Earth News and have it published.

    I collect Maple leaves and notice the same thing in Spring - they are not decomposed much and are chock full of red wrigglers.

    I tried mixing mostly coffee grinds and crosscut paper shreds into a pile last Fall, and it is still looking mostly in-tact. It had heated up, and some of the stuff at the bottom looks OK, but I don't yet feel that I have the hang of making great compost fast. I tried making it inside of two big tractor tires, stacked on top of each other. I have a second batch going set inside of straw bales, and need to turn it and see how it's doing.

    I had no luck with tumbling, though I had a homemade tumbler made of a barrel. 5 years later, there is still a little pile of stuff in there, perhaps finished by now. :-)

    As far as shredders go - we have one that a friend gave us when he moved. It's a gas one. I hate using it. It's *incredibly* loud & very hard to start. It blows the shreds everywhere. Maybe the small electric ones are better... I avoid using the thing.

    I have to wonder in our climate if it's not as beneficial to just till in the leaves, grinds, and whatnot in the Fall. I have had very good luck with that method - maybe the moisture content of the clay is what makes the difference. I tilled a couple of bushels of unfinished compost and a couple of horse manure into my garden plot a couple weeks ago.

    One of my best beds was prepared by tilling everything into in the Fall, then as an ongoing process, it's topped with straw, and topdressed with coffee grinds often. There seems to be an ongoing sheet composting process in that bed. It has worked much better than my beds topped with composted wood chips, I think because the straw easily lets the grinds fall through to the soil rather than sitting on top.

    In the future, I may try composting chicken droppings and shredded paper - things that can't go directly in the garden. The leaves and grinds will go into the garden directly. I have read that there is value in putting a compost pile where the chickens can dig into it, as they will help stir it. If they'll make breakfast and make the compost, I'll have it made.

    Cheers,
    Michelle

  • jamie_mt
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Wow! Thanks for posting all that wonderful information! I keep thinking about starting a compost pile, but I just can't decide where to put it so it will be out of the way, but still "in sight" so I'll remember to keep feeding/turning/wetting it down. So far all we've done is newspapers (used for weed mat and killing grass...great to bring the worms up), grass clippings on the veggie garden, and I'm trying to remember to save eggshells to crumble up in the garden now that everything is fenced off from the nosy dogs.

    That is a very impressive pile you've got there - thanks for sharing! Hopefully I can get one going someday too...

  • michelle_co
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I'm trying to remember to save eggshells to crumble up in the garden

    Hi Jamie,

    Sorry if you already know this, but I wanted to mention...

    If you have a high calcium soil as much of the west has, you won't need extra calcium. The native soil where I live is highly calcareous - if you put some soil into a bit of vinegar - it fizzes like crazy due to the alkalinity (associated with too much calcium carbonate in the soil). That's a very simple test to check for calcareous soil.

    Part of the benefit of composting & amending the soil is balancing the Ph toward neutral. Someone correct me if I'm wrong - but I believe excess calcium binds up the iron in the soil.

    Cheers,
    Michelle

  • billie_ladybug
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I still add pretty much anything that is not meat to my compost. No soap though. Dryer lint and hair are left for the birds. I thought about getting sheep so the border collie would have something to do and adding the fleeces to the compost but guess what, wool does not decompose either, ever. After a friend told me that, I remembered a pile of fleeces in my Great-Aunt's barn that was at least 20 years old.
    Anyway, before I started working, I would go out and turn the piles from one bin to the next about once a month. The centers were always warm but there were always grubs in it anyway.
    My compost consists of: shreaded paper (discovered it was great about 10 years ago from packing), wood shavings (from the chicks bedding), leaves, horse manure, rabbit manure, chicken manure, egg shells, coffee grounds, house plant trimmings and any veggie scraps that were trimmed before anything was added. I keep thinking that I should save the water from steaming and boiling, but that has yet to happen. I took a 4" pvc pipe and drilled holes into it to allow ventilation and let me put water directly into the center of the pile. My piles are about 5' sq. Yes, I am a leaf thief. I'm the crazy lady that pulled over in rush hour traffic on Filmore to make a U-turn to pick up a big pile of leaf bags (approx 30) and I would do it again!!! I am thinking about seeing if the school would save the trimmings from potatoes, coffee and such if I was to supply buckets for it. That would be AWESOME. I'm just worried about other things getting mixed in.

    Well, that's my report:
    Billie

  • jamie_mt
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thanks Michelle - it was more just to do "something" with the eggshells other than throw them away, and we don't really use that many eggs anyways. But I'll try the soil test w/vinegar. It's just the veggie bed, and it's all soft topsoil that we bought last year to put in our raised bed (couldn't use any "native soil" - major bindweed problems). We've been feeding it lots of nitrogen (grass clippings and old aquarium water all last summer), so it's probably in need of some balance. I'll be shopping for compost to add later this spring...

    ...which brings us back to the original post - and why I need to start a compost pile! :-)

  • digit
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Skybird says, Within the last week I dismantled my compost pile, screened the black gold on the bottom, and put everything else back where it belongs! . . . Im gonna build some sort of a "real" screen with a 1 X 2 frame or something sturdier . . .

    At the hardware store you'll find 1/4" hardware cloth (seems logical, doesn't it?) that's 24" x 60". Two 2 x 4's, some lathe and nails will make a handy screen for turning compost into "Black Gold." It's almost like magic!

  • Skybird - z5, Denver, Colorado
    Original Author
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thats exactly what I have in mind, Digitbut nowhere near that big! The pot I screen into is only 24" in diameter, and Im thinking maybe 2½' X 2½' is plenty big enough. And Ill probably just use 1 X 2's for the frame since itll be much lighter (I'm just a wimpy girl!), but still be way sturdier than what I used this time. How did you attache the hardware cloth to yours? I havent decided how Ill do that yet. Did you just cut the wire to the size of the frame and nail the lath over it on the bottom? And I wont be using a 1/4" grid. Im WAY too lazy for that! Im thinking 3/4" if I can find such a thingor ½" if not. I dont really care if some bigger pieces get thru, as long as its not 5 or 6" long sticks and stems.

    But it looks like your BUYING your Black Gold! Thats cheating!

    My take on eggshells is that I dont put them on the pile anymore. But not for the calcium issue. I dont use many eggs, but when I first started the pile (wish I had a picture of my cute little baby compost pile!) I crunched up and added a few eggshells to it. One of the very first times I dug in it to try to get a little bit of useable compost I found the eggshells in virtually the same form as when I had put them on the pile. By then they were getting mixed in with the decomposing stuff, and when I was digging in it I discovered that the eggshell pieces were very sharp and not hand-friendly at all, so I picked out as much as I could findand havent added any eggshells to my pile since then.

    Another thing Ive found that will survive in a compost pile until the archeologists dig it up after 500 years is fruit pits! When I was at the last house and was growing things in pots, I took a bunch of peach and prune pits and buried them deep in the soil (not to grow themthinking theyd decompose!) Three and four and five years later, when I was loosening up the soil in the pots the pits were still unchanged. I kept thinking theyd eventually break down, so I kept pushing them into the bottom of the pot. Since I was growing things in the pots, the soil was kept WET. Then I moved to this house and brought the pots of soil with me. Since I didnt plan to grow anything in the pots anymore, I decided to add that soil to the soil in my yard as the first amendment. Most of it went into the tomato areawhich had really bad soil. When I dumped out the potsthere were the pitsstill unchanged7 or 8 years later! A few of them got mixed into the garden soil, and every now and then I still run into one of themnow 10 or 11 years after the fact! I dont add fruit pits to the compost pile!

    To create a "fast pile," Michelle, it needs to get really HOT, and that means all the right proportions and a LOT of work! Heres a link to a really comprehensive site about compostbut Im guessing youre gonna stick to the cooL methodalong with all the rest of us coooool folks!

    Thumbs up for Black Gold (the homemade kind!)
    Skybird

  • bpgreen
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I have a similar screen, made from plans my wife showed me in a Martha Stewart magazine. They used to be available online, but I can no longer find them.

    Mine is just big enough to cover a wheelbarrow and made with 1x3s instead of 2x4s. On mine, the wood sticks out past the end to form handles.

    I also used 1/4 inch hardware cloth. The plans called for either 1/4 inch or 1/2 inch and I opted for the 1/4 inch cloth. I may get some 1/2 inch cloth and try it, because the 1/4 inch cloth is almost too fine for my needs. I end up tossing a lot back in the bin each time. I think 3/4 inch might be a little too big for me, but it may work for your uses.

  • digit
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Skybird, I didn't cut the hardware cloth at all. I cut the boards to fit the cloth (funny name for woven wire). After I had the boards of the right size and nailed together, I laid the cloth on this frame and tacked the lathe over the cloth and frame.

    Hardware cloth comes in rolls of 24 by 60. At least, that turned out to be the size of the 2 rolls I bought - 1/4" & 1/2". I found that the 1/2" was really only good for taking the rocks out of garden soil.

    My screening of compost is necessary when I can't justify filling a huge pot with expensive potting soil from the store. Since I put garden soil in my compost pile and there are lots of rocks in that soil . . . I've got lots of rocks to screen out along with the coarse organic material. There are lots and lots of pebbles.

    If compost is going in the garden, nearly always, I dig it in. Much of my compost goes on the dahlias. It is spread on the beds and then planting holes are "punched" thru it with a post hole digger. (The soil in the beds has already been loosened with a spading fork.)

    The compost gets buried in the process of planting the dahlia tubers. With other plants, I dig down and then bury the compost. It amounts to the same thing and very coarse material can be used either way.

    digitS'

  • Azura
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I have a question about screening compost. I dont have rocks or any pieces of wood in my bin. I kinda wish I did because then it would mean mature landscaping and trees. Im sorry Digit, but I dont miss picking glacial river rock out of every inch of dirt in the great Northwest.
    I do have some larger fibrous pieces of sunflower stalks and such but they are generally thin and no more than two inches long. I figure that they contribute to overall fluff of my dirt as they continue to break down. They dont seem to different than that bagged ClayBuster product.
    Am I weird if I dont screen?
    The only reason I see for it is rocks, larger pieces of wood or if you do a lot of direct seeding. When I direct seed, I generally grab a seed starting mix anyway.
    Is there any reason for me to be screening my compost that Im overlooking?

  • bpgreen
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Depending on how you use the compost, there may be no need to screen it at all. I've only had the screen a few years. The only reason I started using a screen is that I started using most of the compost on the front lawn and didn't want any chunks in it. I don't need it to be fine enough to be a potting mix, but I don't want to leave stuff in it that might look like trash in the front lawn.

  • Skybird - z5, Denver, Colorado
    Original Author
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Egad! There's lots of folks around here late at nite tonite! I was gonna post this a little while ago, but then GW went down on me again--"user identification failed"---so I had to finish some other stuff and then sign off AOL and sign back on---and in the meantime all you other nite folks showed up!

    As long as you compost is decomposed enough to use it, Azura, there's no reason at all to screen it. I was really, really hoping I wouldn't need to screen mine--but with all the big stuff I throw on the pile, there was no way I could try to mix it into the soil without screening it.

    And, BP, what's wrong with trash in the front yard. Just put up a big sign: Hillbilly Heaven!

    Here's my post from right after Digit's post! This better work this time! That's a threat!

    Im not entirely following you, Digit. Are you saying that the only time you use the quarter inch screen is when youre using the compost in a pot, so you really do want a nice fine loam to plant in? And that you use the ½" screen for the stuff youre using to mix into your native soil? Re rocks: I have a couple places in my veggie garden where previous owners have gotten fairly large quantities of rocks (rock mulchmy favorite thing!) mixed into the soil, and it is SUCH a pain to try to dig in those areas. I sure am glad I dont have rocky soil to deal with anywhere else in the yard. (Of course, the mazes of cottonwood roots I deal with everywhere really arent any better than rocks!)

    Along with Steve, I think Id wind up putting too much stuff back on the pile with a quarter inch screen, and since I only use the finished compost for mixing into my soil, I dont mind at all if theres some stuff thats only partially decomposed. As a matter of fact, since I was using the 1" screen this time, I got quite a bit of larger stuff that Ill be digging inbut since its all well into the decomposition process, Im not worried about it messing up the nitrogen in the soil, so I figure it can just finish the decomposition in the soil, and since Ive now seen how much earthworms are drawn to partially decomposed material, I figure its probably a good thing to have only half decomposed stuff mixed in pretty much everywhere in the veggie garden to encourage the worms to "spread out" everywhere. I think Ill probably opt for the ½" grid when I build my screen.

    And, since you mention putting soil on the compost pileI didnt think of that up in my original post, but I, too, add soil to my compost pile. Mostly I do it when Im digging up sod somewhere, and other times I do it when Im planting and I get into a particularly bad area of heavy clay, and then I just dig out the worst of the clay and replace it with native soil from somewhere else in the yard. But I believe adding soil is really helpful by adding the natural soil organisms to the pile that help with the decomposition, and even if I werent digging up sod, Id be sure to find some soil every now and then to spread around on the pile. The problem I have, however, is that when Im digging out sod, Im usually so tired that I put it on the pile in big chunks, so it doesnt get very well distributed, and it takes quite a while to break down. I just keep tossing it back on the pile, though, until it does eventually compost along with everything else.

  • bpgreen
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    "And, BP, what's wrong with trash in the front yard. Just put up a big sign: Hillbilly Heaven!"

    I'm married. My wife barely puts up with me as it is. I figure it's best not to push my luck.

    I never add soil to my compost. I know that was always recommended in the past, but the purpose was to add bacteria from the soil and there's plenty of bacteria in the air, so I don't think it's needed. Feel free to add it, though.

  • billie_ladybug
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Steve - your compost screen looks a lot like my chick tank cover!! Guess I have a new use for it, if I ever need it. I have so many pile of compost aka aged horse manure, that I can wait for a year or so until everthing breaks down. Anyway, the reason I am posting is to tell Skybird that when you go to the hardware store to get that hardware "cloth" and the 1x2 (I would really suggest 2x2, less flex and still light weight) pick up some L brackets. The type you put 4 screws into. Get 4, one for each corner, it will really help strenghten the whole deal up and keep it from flexing. By the way, I stapled the cloth on to the frame with my Powershot. I can even shoot the annoying rooster with that thing. You should not have a problem finding your 1/2x1/2 cloth. If you do, let me know, I still have a few contacts from my lumber yard days.

    Billie

  • digit
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    ". . . Digit. Are you saying that the only time you use the quarter inch screen is when youre using the compost in a pot, so you really do want a nice fine loam to plant in?"

    That's it, Skybird. I screen compost solely for use in a potting mix. And there's no doubt, screening it thru 1/4" wire is tuff on leather gloves and finger tips!

    When compost comes out of the bin on the way to the garden, I toss the big chunks back. The remaining coarse material just gets buried in the garden soil anyway and disappears. I consider it too valuable to use as a mulch where it might lose some nutrients to the air.

    The 1/2" screen has only been used to obtain some gravel to fill a hole in the drive way. There's some (few) advantages to having a gravel source on-site!

    Steve's digits

  • michelle_co
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    To create a "fast pile," Michelle, it needs to get really HOT, and that means all the right proportions and a LOT of work!

    Mine got to about 130 and stayed there for a while, then dropped off. I suspect my problem may be partly due to disparate particle sizes - tiny grinds of coffee and big old honking leaves. And I don't really know how to get the newspaper to go into the pile without it clumping up... Even where I just scattered it in, it mats together. I'm just grinding up the small daily newspaper for Durango but ending up with a lot of paper!

    It may end up being better if I can mix it with chicken poo to compost. Maybe I can use the shredded paper under the roost? I want to build a box that sits under the roost and make it very easy to empty out. Sprinkling a couple handfuls of fresh paper daily might help me with the problem of mixing up the paper in the compost.

    Cheers,
    Michelle

  • david52 Zone 6
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I use an old, 4 ft high, 12 ft dia stiff sided swimming pool for making compost - no bottom in it. I hold it up with steel t-posts. It holds an awful lot of compost. It takes about a year to fill it up with stuff, and then I move the bin, leaving a 12 foot dia "compost cake" to chip away at.

    I try to leave it for two years, but even then, the newspaper is still intact. I've tried all kinds of ways to turn the Denver Post into compost, and have just about given up. Soak it, tear it up, still there after two years. I did come up with a great system of soaking it in a bucket of water for a week, it starts to really smell, and then using an electric drill and a 3 foot long bulb auger to turn it into a slurry, like for paper maché, and pour that onto the pile. After the experimental stage, I decide this is the way to go.

    So, I pop $30 for a big drill (on sale), 100 ft extension cord to reach the pile, $20 for a 50 gal plastic garbage bin, (also on sale). I've put a months' worth of newspaper in the bin to soak for a week. It reeks. Flies flee the neighborhood as I open the lid. I Zwirrr zwwirrrrr the bulb auger, get the hose running, and off we go. Whir a bit, stick a plastic bucket into the big trash bin, fill it with slurry, pour on compost. A regular assembly line going. It doesn't smell any better. I start accumulating bits and pieces of newspaper slurry in my hair, eye brows, covering the glasses, and it still doesn't smell any better. DW comes out, puts hand on hip, and says something about maybe finding a different place to sleep something-something if I even *think* something-something in the house smelling like something-something, but I don't hear all of it, what with the splashing and Zwirrr zwwirrrrring.

    At this point, I feel a sudden, wet sensation on my feet. I'd drilled through the side of the garbage pale, releasing a flood of 50 gallons of rotting newspaper slurry all over my shoes. Oh well.

    These days, I use newspaper out in the border under the trees, lay out a 5" deep layer, and then cover it all with grass clippings and leaves. The rolly polly bugs and night crawlers eventually find it.

  • aliceg8
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I got two different compost bins (so to speak) through the City of Seattle when I lived there. One is a very simple green plastic cylinder with holes in it - about the size of a trash can. It has 2 disk style lids, one for the top and one for the bottom. It's worked ok for me - not a lot of compost, but it's handled what I've had.

    The second is a "Green Cone". If you're familiar with it, it gets half buried into the ground and is supposed to turn your compost to liquid gold which then seeps into the soil. Only problem is the "bury it" part. I haven't had the heart to try and dig a hole for it here. I'm thinking of bringing it to the plant swap where some stronger backs than I may want to take it home.

    My other advance to composting is getting a container for the kitchen to collect scraps and coffee grounds. I know, should have done this long ago, but I was looking for the right one. Steve picked this one up, and it works (although it's not terribly attractive, as it's see through. The first time I put a paper towel in there Steve grossed out and said "No more! It looks like a toilet sitting on our kitchen counter."

    I got a little bit of compost out of the bottom of the bin a couple of weeks ago for planting my lettuce. The rest hasn't heated up enough I guess.

    Alice

  • michelle_co
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Funny, David. I feel better that I'm not the only one failing to compost newspaper. I even bought the "special" (aka expensive) shredder that crosscuts because I thought it might work better.

    Also noted you say "something-something", too. Where did you pick that up? I think I got it from our Indian friend -everything is a "something-something" or a "that thing". :-)

    Alice, haven't you seen those garden shows and magazines that show how a gardener can effortlessly sink their shovel 12" or better into the soil??? Those shows make me laugh. :-) They ain't knowed Colorado Dirt.

    Cheers,
    Michelle

  • billie_ladybug
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Alice - if you go to Pinetree Garden Seeds they have a cute little compost bucket for in the kitchen. It is a dark green with a lid and handle. The lid takes a filter like some of the lidded catboxes do. So far no smell. It runs about $20 plus shipping, but I like it better than the red tub I had and the lid opens with one finger. Item number H770.

    Good luck
    Billie

  • foxes_garden
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I unpacked and repacked my compost this weekend as well, and pulled out stuff that looked mostly done to dig into the lettuce beds. A screen would be a very good thing to have next time I do this.

    My pile is much smaller than yours, in a black plastic box. (There's nowhere on my property that I could put a pile that big without setting off the neighbors.) I decided that I'm not putting any more woody bits in my pile if I can help it. I pulled out all the big woody chunks that I saw. I have a separate leaf bin right next to my compost box, and this year I plan to layer grass & kitchen waste with leaves, and take anything bigger or tougher to a big public recycling center. Maybe I'll manage to get it hot this year. I've got a friend with horses, too, so maybe I can bury some manure in there too.

  • conace55
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I had a compost pile in my backyard until last summer. I went out to throw my bucket of kitchen scraps into it and saw a large hole down the middle. I've seen mice near the pile, and an occasional snake (hopefully taking care of the mice), but this hole was strangely large. The next time I went out to empty the bucket, I found out "who" I was so generously feeding. A very large rat looked back at me when I lifted the lid. Gross! We immediately set a trap and got it the next day (I insisted my DH empty the trap). Since then, I told DH that I will only have a compost container that sits off the ground and is covered.

    Love compost...... HATE rats!

    Connie

  • digit
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I have seen mice in the compost - or, voles - rodents of small size. One was eating a piece of carrot . . .

    Honestly, that's the only one I can remember after years & years of making and moving the stuff. And, there's plenty of voles especially in the veggie garden and especially under any mulch material.

    I have a rule of thumb - nothing that's been cooked goes in the compost. I make an exception for coffee grounds but that's it. No bread, noodles, leftover corn or any other vegetable goes in there - certainly, no meat and no cheese even if they aren't cooked.

    There have been quite a few sow bugs and earwigs but they don't seem to go very deep. The red wigglers are there in ENORMOUS numbers but that's in the 2007 pile. The 2006 pile, which I'll spread soon, is just dense, wet, decaying compost.

    Oh, and there's no cover on the bin.

    digitS'

  • Azura
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    So... what you guys are telling me is that I wouldnt have had to teach my son the difference between a bulb and avocado pit if I had screened my compost? Hehehe... NOW I get it!
    Can I please ask another dumb question?
    Do you stir your compost and how often?

  • amester
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hi all - if you're really up for fun do a search on "Compost Whacko" on GardenWeb - it will take you to the "You Know You are a Compost Whacko When......." thread. I was laughing to the point of tears!

    Skybird, amen to the smell of rotted leaves - I almost passed out the first time I unearthed mine. NASTY!

    Someone mentioned sawdust - on the compost thread one poster said that sawdust + grass clippings = killer compost. Worth a try!

    I'm the laziest of composters. I bought two big, wheeled plastic trash cans from Home Depot, drilled them up with holes and use those. I like that they're easily portable and have strong lids. I keep them in the garage, start them with a layer of browns and take any kitchen greens I get straight out there and dump them in. When there are enough greens I throw in a layer of leaves, unamended dirt, shredded newspaper - whatever. Then I can go back to tossing my kitchen waste right in the bin. I don't turn but will occasionally dump in a pitcher of water over a layer of browns if it looks dry (after wheeling it outside to the dirt area, natch!). Takes a good 6 months to be worth anything but it's at least happening, right? I'd probably turn every time I added a layer if I was going to get ambitious about it... ;)

  • digit
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Azura, I never stir my compost anymore. But then, what I'll put on the garden here in a week or so is from 2006. Mine is not exactly a speedy process.

    What I've found is that I'm always around after 18 to 24 months to make use of the material. This may not always be the case . . . I've got plans . . . !

    digitS'

  • michelle_co
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Well, I found out today that the pile I bothered to turn a couple of weeks ago has heated up nicely - not super hot - but it's sitting at 100 deg. The pile I haven't turned is cold. So I guess I am going to have to get to it. Prior to that, I had just been poking in a pitch fork and occasionally lifting things to let in some air.

    These two piles were built around Thanksgiving.

    Cheers,
    Michelle

  • bpgreen
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    If you want to get fast compost, you want to do hot composting, which means stirring it every once in a while. Some people buy compost thermometers and turn when it reaches a certain temp (in the middle) or when it hets up and starts to drop, etc.

    I have one of those thermometers, but the only reason I have it is that it was a gift from a neighbor who didn't have a use for it. Last summer, I was getting compost in a couple of weeks using mostly coffee grounds and shredded paper. I was turning it regularly and keeping it damp, etc.

    If you're not in a hurry, if you just pile it up and let it rot, the good stuff is at the bottom. Many years ago, my dad put the gate from a chain link fence on some cement blocks. He built his pile on top of that. It also served as his screener (admittedly larger holes than the 14 and 1/2 inch versions we've been discussing here). When he wanted compost, he'd get a shovelful from under the gate.

  • singcharlene
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Wow, very entertaining thread! I've enjoyed reading everyone's reflections on compost.

    I guess I'm a pretty lazy composter. I bought a black plastic compost bin last winter from Costco that is already falling apart and we've had to tie it together in various places. All the kitchens and garden scraps have been in there for about a year now and I just keep adding to it. It has a trap door at the bottom that I've managed to take a few handfuls of black gold out of. I also have another pile (and it really is just a big pile) for branches and garden prunings.

    Here are some of my reflections of my lazy way to compost which was really inspired by the book Lasagna Gardening by Pat Lanza. First I spread out wet newspapers, then I spread all of the undecomposed contents from the costco composter and scraps straight from the kitchen, shredded junk mail, bagged leaves, tons of pine needles from all over the neighborhood in no particular order, ending with a thin layer of bagged top soil or compost on top. This lead to my beds being about two feet high when I was done. Seeds sprouted very quickly. When I went to plant my veggie transplants in it, I spread the topsoil to make a "hole" and the roots of the plant were actually resting on the leaves and pine needles beneath and I thought there was no way this was going to work. After planting I then covered the soil/roots with a thick layer of straw or spoiled hay (that I got from a neighbor). To my surprise, I got more tomatoes, lots of lovely corn, squash than I did from the raised wood boxes that were filled with expensive purchased soil (mixture of top soil, manure, compost). There are tons of worms in there and I didn't dig one thing! I'm hooked! My beds are now about a foot high or less from the contents settling and breaking down over the winter.

    So instead of throwing all of my scraps into the broken composter, I'm getting ready to pile more "undecomposed" stuff on top of the beds and start all over again.

    Last year as an experiment I also buried some of the leftover partially decomposed kitchen scraps (they were still big chunks of whatever vegetable or fruit) right into my raised veggies beds and planted right on top. We'll see how it looks this year.

    Thus far, I've only used this method with veggies (actually there were some flowers mixed in with the veggies that didn't seem to mind at all). I'm going to experiment again and use this method in the front yard for some shrub roses and day lilies. We'll see what happens.

    BP, I like your dad's idea of the chain link on blocks acting as the screener. That might be good for my big pile of garden clippings.

    Fun, Fun!
    Charlene

  • billie_ladybug
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Charlene - My intro to compost was just that, bury it in the dirt. When I was about 13 my mother and I went to a garage sale in the old part of Tucson Az. The lady that was doing the sale was probably 60-70 (I don't know for sure) but she had the most amazing floverbeds you have ever seen, in the DESERT! Her soil was BLACK. She gave me seeds from her four-o-clocks and something else when they were ready. Anyway on one of my visits to her gardens she was eating a banana. When she was done, she just bent over and buried it in a nearby bed. I asked what she was doing buring trash in the garden, and a composter was born. This winter, while I was moving things I used her method and just buried my compostables in the bed by the house. I am planting strawberries there tomorrow, I will let you know what it looks like.

    Billie

  • bethie_2007
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    This is an amazing and unusual group of people.....

    I am now forbidden from making compost in the Costco bin because last summer a) it fell completely apart and b) we had fungus gnats in such thick clouds you got them in your teeth if you went outside and smiled. So I've been on a Ruth Stout/Pat Lanza jag and will now try just burying it in the garden. I just have a big rectangular tupperware, whose lid is now lost, which I keep in the door of the fridge. It doesn't ever stink since it's cold. Don't know why everyone doesn't do it this way.....we also have a rabbit who produces an alarming amount of manure per week which I've recently been tucking under the straw. It's not going to burn anything, like chicken manure, is it? I just planted kale and chard and spinach and peas and stuff so if they dont come up I guess I'll know what happened.

    I'm taking advice.....

  • billie_ladybug
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Bethie - I don't even bury the rabbit stuff, just leave it right on top. It keeps the neighborhood cats from digging in your garden. It won't burn anything. My DH had a friend who used to come out and steal a few bucket fulls to spread on his lawn every spring. It does not stink like steer manure and is just as effective.

    Happy gardening
    Billie

  • aliceg8
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Billie, thanks for the tip on the kitchen bucket.

    My grandma used to "bury" as well. She kept a 1/2 milk carton in her kitchen, and put all her scraps in it (cooked and raw) and then buried it in her flower beds. I never saw her bury it in the vegetable garden though - makes me wonder.

    Alice

  • digit
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    To the music of Heartbreak Hotel (with your best "Eco-Elvis" imitation)

    "Compost Hotel"

    Well the kitchen staff started recycling the bread and vegetable scraps,
    Even the paper towels and coffee filters ladies and gentleman can go to that compost bin out back,
    Well, it's more friendly, baby...

    I never listen to music on the radio - even songs I once knew don't sound like anything I recognize anymore. Between the farmers' market and the garden, I was trying to listen to NPR's "Living on Earth." The story this week is on "Eco-Elvis." There are links to the Eco-Elvis website and one to a video (which would probably take me about a week to download with dial-up . . . ).

    The words above just jumped out of the pickup radio . . . and grabbed me! (I wish I had the rest of them. :o) I'm still chuckling about this . . .

    digitS'

  • billie_ladybug
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Wow, another "Elvis" song I will never own. Yikes.

    "I never listen to music on the radio", I cannot stand to be without a radio playing something, anything, I would (some would say I have) go crazy. I even managed to tie a DeWalt to the back of my forklift when I was in the lumber yard.

    Billie

  • laura_42
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    *digs up old thread*

    Well, I've finally gotten up the nerve to try composting, and thought I'd share my experience here.

    It's only my second week, but so far, so good. I called several local nurseries, and found a kitchen compost bin for under a hundred dollars. I could've gotten one from the Gardens at Spring Creek (Fort Collins' community garden) last year for about half the cost, but when I called to ask if they still had them, I was informed they were sold out due to high demand.

    For a while I'd contemplated making my own out of a Rubbermaid trash can, but after pricing these I figured I might as well cough up an additional $30 and have a tidier, more ergonomical bin. So I hefted my new purchase home and opened up the box. This was what was inside:

    {{gwi:1194519}}

    It also came with a booklet with instructions in English, Spanish, and French. (It turns out that the "Garden Gourmet" is surpisingly not manufactured in China but Ontario, Canada)

    The recycled plastic pieces snapped together easily -- once they were flattened out a little -- and didn't require any special tools. It's much smaller than a traditional compost pile, but is designed to hold about 11 cubit feet, which is currently plenty for my small-scale gardening efforts.

    {{gwi:1194520}}

    So far I've put in partially decomposed leaves, fruit and vegetable scraps, houseplant trimmings, seaweed, bread crumbs, tea leaves and coffee grounds, and I've been sure to poke at it every couple of days or so. I'm amazed at how quickly things are already decomposing, and how little it smells. (Of course I may change this opinion when the heat of summer arrives!)

    I've also been tossing in about a pint of water a day, because our climate is so dry and windy. This, along with one inch piece limits and regular aeration, is said to be key with small upright compost bins. Hopefully in about six months to a year I'll have my very own compost -- or at the very least, an interesting learning experience.

  • bpgreen
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I've had a garden gourmet for over 10 years and have gotten a lot of compost from it. Mine only cost $10 (shortly after I bought the house, there was a program trying to encourage people to recycle yard waste and the county picked up most of the cost).

    A couple of years ago, I bought some extenders to make it a little taller.

    If I had it to do over, I would probably get a couple of pieces of rebar and use those to anchor rather than the plastic spikes that came with it. Over time, the bin has lost some of its shape and the door sometimes pops off the track.

  • laura_42
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Ten dollars for ten years? That's a good deal! :)

    Oh, and thanks for the rebar tip. Those plastic spikes did seem a bit flimsy. Do they make rebar thin enough to fit into the corner slots, I wonder? If not, perhaps I could stake some rebar in the ground right next to the walls for extra stabilization. Hmmm....

  • bpgreen
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    "Do they make rebar thin enough to fit into the corner slots, I wonder?"

    I'm not sure, but I mentioned that idea when I bought the extra panels to make it a little bigger and the guy I was talking to said that several people there (composteers.com, but they don't seem to carry the extension kits now) had done something like that.

  • jnfr
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thanks for digging up this old thread! Very useful info here. I have a Rubbermaid composter out back by my veggie beds. I like the type, which unfortunately is not made any more, but I've never made very good use of it. I really ought to get out there once it warms up and see what's cooking!

  • david52 Zone 6
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I have a Rocky Mt. compost dilemma that I need to deal with shortly. Last fall, in a fit of efficient thinking, I figgered: "why not heap all this stuff up right in the middle of the veggie garden, instead of hauling it all down towards the compost operation, rotting it there over the winter, and hauling it all back up in the spring? What could go wrong?"

    Well, it all dried out, leaving a hydrophobic heap of 4 cubic yards of really spore/dust/dried-mold stuff mixed in with a buncha huge, tough, stem bundles, like what you get when you try to compost a 6' dia tomato plant and it doesn't work.

    What to do. I tried soaking it. Nada.

  • digit
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    What to do think about burying this pile nearby in a garden bed, David?

    There's the work of digging out the soil compared to the wheelbarrow work of hauling it off. And, that bed will not be useful this year but there's 2010.

    I use this technique, along with others, and plant something like Winter squash in that bed the 1st season back in production. By the 2011 season, the bed should be back to full usefulness.

    digitS'

  • david52 Zone 6
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Ach, Steve, the pile is about 8' wide, 20 foot long, and 3' high. It started off 5' high. Right in the middle of the garden, and I need the bed it's covering.

    I'm off now with a pitch fork to see what I can do.

  • david52 Zone 6
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Well, using a pitch fork and wheel barrow, I was able to spread it out in 5 beds and till it in. I hauled several wheel barrows full of stems-of-stuff over to the 'leisure compost pile' where we heap up stuff that takes years. There were a lot of worms busy under the stuff. I won't plant anything until june where the pile was.

    And one of my artichokes over-wintered. The one with 3" of mulch. Interesting to know.

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