I *love* Kitazawa! They ship really quickly too. I grew Kailaan OP (chinese broccoli) last year and they did really well in the cool part of summer. I tried for a second planting in June, but between the flea beetles and the heat they didn't stand a chance. This year I'll try them again, as well as a bunch of Thai vegetables: holy basil, red seeded long bean, winged bean (though I'm worried about its day length sensitivity), long green eggplant, bird pepper, pea eggplant and purple egg eggplant. I would try soybeans too, but I can't seem to find seeds for the variety I used to eat as a kid.

Digit, thanks for all the other recommendations!

I tried 'vitamin greens' and Tatsoi from Johnny's, and both of those are much better when they are small then when they grow up. Also, at least in my garden, they both are serious flea beetle magnets.

David and by Gindeejao, the flea beetles must find them by radar. That is why I'm a dedicated user of rotenone/pyrethrin spray. Ya jest gotta hit both sides of the little plants AND the surface of the soil. They spend most of the day hiding in debris and cracks on the soil surface. Then a week later, spray again. One garden has less rocks on the surface and I have less problems there.

Of course, the flea beetles were in almost everything last year. I've never seen them damage the tomatoes so much - refrained from spraying . . . And, I think some of the eggplants would have died if I hadn't - sprayed.

Tatsoi is one of those that havent done very well for us, David. And, Gai lan (Kailaan) was a little difficult also, Gindeejao. Not sure why.

Steve

I don't believe that I ended this thread on a very positive note early last Spring. So now, as we are thinking about 2008 garden seeds, you may be thinking, "Seeds for what?" Well, here I am again suggesting Asian greens!

A month ago and just before I ran the tiller over the small veggie garden, I carried off a bag full of bright green bok choy. A few days earlier at dinner, I'd enjoyed a nice helping of mild-flavored, steamed santoh greens. The Fun Jen came on early, as is its habit, and filled some harvest baskets during late September. Broadleaf mustard was available throughout early Fall.

Tender Maruba Santoh hadn't taken the frosts of late October quite as well as the tough little baby Mei Qing Choy. I have to admit that the Toy Choy quit growing in early October and I only got a few of those tiny plants before they began to struggle to bloom in the face of approaching Winter weather. Nevertheless, other than the root vegetables and a few late cabbage, these Asian greens were the last of my garden produce.

Back in March, I planted greens under protection in my backyard hoophouse. With the all the leaf mustards, Chinese cabbage, and the choys, there were something like 12 varieties!! I had a healthy number of plants going into April & May!

And, healthy food is the most important motivation here (all eyes begin to glaze over ;o). I recently had reason to look at the nutritional value of beet greens over beet roots (so to speak). In a single serving, the greens have 50% of the Daily Value Vitamin A and 20% of the Vitamin C. The beet roots have negligible Vitamin A and, ounce for ounce, 1/5th the Vitamin C of the leaves.

Okay, I did a little change-a-roo going from Asian greens to beet greens but you get my meaning and what difference does a continent make, anyway? If you aren't getting your Summer Daily Value of Vitamin C from leafy greens, where are you getting it? From the same Asian citrus trees that are supplying your Winter Vitamin C?!? Tut, tut!

Time to think about lovely, verdant vegetables tossed gently about by a warm Spring breeze or cosseted under protecting clear plastic.

I'll post some Asian veggies seed sources over in the Seed Catalogs thread. I know that I've talked a fair amount about these vegetables here on the RMG forum but here's a link to a discussion on the Veggie Forum with some of my pictures. Bolting to seed is a common problem with these veggies and it has everything to do with exposure of the plants to harsh conditions - either too hot or too cold. The harshness is exacerbated by our generally dry climate here in the West.

digitS'

Digit, have you considered puting the hoop house over your Asian veggies again in the fall and holding things a bit longer?

I have done a rather conventional (ha) fall/winter garden in a low tunnel for several years now, with carrots, turnips, spinach, and lettuce. This year I added kale and chard, but some of my giant red mustard self-seeded, too, and it has been going great guns. I tend to mix the greens and cook them all up in one pot--spinach, turips, and mustard. I understand bok choy and just about any other cabbage-family vegetable will be quite hardy, too. I plant my fall/winter garden in late July to mid August, cover it loosely (ends of the low tunnel open) around the first few mild frosts, and close it up around Thanksgiving. Well, not so much this year. I've had it open almost every day this week.

This year the cabbage loopers were active until a month ago (I use a sharp stream of soapy water to wash them off), and I was still washing aphids off this past Tuesday, as the weather has been so mild. But we've still had a steady harvest of goodies from the tunnel.

Catherine

Catherine, I have a problem with using the tunnel late: vines are planted in there and use the hoops for support thru the Summer. It might be possible to cover it again without doing too much damage but there's very little sunlight making it down to the ground and I'd still need to get in there to pull the dead vines out after frosts become severe.

There's a link below to a thread I started over in the Asian veggie forum bragging about the hoop house. A photo shows what it looks like in late September. Also, there are some real nice photo's of another gardener's shelters. They are much more sophisticated than mine - that'll teach me to brag!

For all my efforts to get things started early, it is rather odd that there's nothing for me to harvest by mid-Autumn. You've done well, Catherine. The greens must be very welcome. Can your carrots grow sufficiently to reach harvest size?

I also allowed a red mustard to reseed itself one year. Last year, there were just a couple plants that showed up. I should have allowed another to go to seed so as to have another 3 or 4 year run. Some of the red mustards are very fine, uh, greens.

digitS'

I like the vines, but I understand why the bed isn't available for late planting.

The greens are a nice treat. My twins are 6 now, and they love the lettuce and spinach from the tunnel, but are still a bit reluctant to eat cooked greens, so the kale is a hard sell still.

This year the carrots are a bit small, as they were volunteers that sprouted a bit late. When I plant on purpose in mid-July, they are definitely harvest size by the time they stop growing.

This year I had plants actively growing until Thanksgiving, as the weather was (and is) very mild. Usually I lose the lettuce to a cold snap right around Thanksgiving, but this year I harvested a big salad for the family dinner, and still have a few leaves for the kids to snack on. (Black seeded Simpson and a butterhead whose name escapes me.) The kale is still puting on new leaves, as we speak. I am in the mountains of northern New Mexico, just south of the Colorado state line, so I get a lot more daylight than you, and that keeps things going even when it is cold.

We are having a wet snow right now, which will collapse my tunnel by morning. If tomorrow night's temperature was supposed to be really cold, I would leave the mess collapsed and let the snow insulate the plants. We're supposed to have night temperatures in the 20s for the next several nights, though, so I'll shake it all off and let the tunnel stand back up.

Catherine

I dont know if its all the medical problems Ive been having lately, maybe some deep seated craving for vitamins but Ive really been craving veggies, especially Asian veggies.
I am drooling over my Kitazawa catalog and hoping for some advice on which of these veggies will do okay in the full sun heat of my Denver area garden. Broccoli bolted for me last year... is there any hope for bok choi in my garden? I know eggplants and melons are a go. I miss the Pacific Northwest!

Azura, we can do this!! I've got these yellow stickie things that BP suggested now stuck all over my monitor. So, will start taking notes.

First thing to do, I guess, is to reread what I said here in 'o7 . . . .

Haven't rec'd the new Kitazawa catalog but will search thru the stack by the door for last year's. Have you seen Evergreen online? Linked below . . . They don't have a paper catalog altho' you can buy their seed in Asian markets.

Here's an article with some recipes for using your Asian greens - Choy to the World. And another one on different choices for the garden - Master Gardeners.">

There's also this really neat Canadian outfit, Agrohaitai. I mean, between Kitazawa, Evergreen and Agrohaitai - Asia is at your fingertips!

digitSteve

A source that was mentioned above is Johnny's. I pulled out the Kitazawa catalog about the same time as the Totally Tomato catalog arrived and realized how much difference there is between these two. I better hide the Tomato Growers Supply catalog after it shows up. I won't be looking at anything else.

Kitazawa has NO photographs. Evergreen doesn't even have a catalog.

Johnny's is sometime a little silly, it seems to me. I mean, I can't even keep track of all the lettuce varieties from Johnny's planted in my garden. Okay, I may be the silly one.

For health, it's the leafy greens where the American diet apparently falls really, really short. Well, Johnny's has got you covered!! And, it is a pretty paper catalog you can carry around the house.

One thing I think is important is to not think of greens as just healthy. I'm afraid that may lead to a hold-your-nose approach like you used back when your feet didn't touch the floor under the table. I like kale but it almost needs to be beaten into submission by repeated hard frosts before it is edible. I say almost . . .

The Green Wave type mustard, the heavy Pak Choy, the kale in our supermarkets - I can walk right by that stuff. I want small, tender and sweet - those are leafy greens that can be enjoyed, everyday!

Often it's the hybrids but if you find an open-pollinated variety you like - saving seed is really easy. I've got not only a lovely Asian mustard but something that is obviously a bok choy relative but isn't quite bok choy. I think it's a choy sum but really should order some seed for that and compare. I got the good stuff, however!!

And speaking of flowering: Asian greens are really quick - sometimes, too quick. Any stress (too cold, too hot) sets them off towards bolting. This isn't always a bad thing. Altho' it is nice if they make some size, the shoots are often the tenderest, sweetest part of the plants. You gotta watch these little guys closely, tho'. They shoot up into flower practically overnight. Grab 'em!

digitS'

Some things that Kitazawa has that have worked oh so well for me:

Blues Chinese cabbage - but only under plastic.
Fun Jen bok choy - it is a little mustardy but tender and so, so early!
Maruba Santoh - this are very tender and mild (but I already said that in the 1st post), if you want an Asian green for salad, make it this one!
Mei Qing Choi - of course!

Toy Choy is fun . . . and you thought Fun Jen was the only fun out there. But, those tiny little guys can be kinda tricky and Im not sure if Ill grow them again soon.

And yes, I grow Mizuna.

Osaka Purple mustard grows itself each year. I could almost swear that I haven't allowed any to reseed themselves for 4 or 5 years . . . ? It keeps coming back.

This year, I really need to try Beka Santoh. I would be pleased if it was a little earlier than Maruba but even if it is exactly the same in every way, I can't go wrong.

The Fedco catalog came today . . . talk about a homely thing . . . Well, anyway, it's great! They've got the Blues and Fun Jen. But, my big find in the Asian greens world this year was Senposai from Fedco.

It's a hybrid of Komatsuna mustard and head cabbage . . . ! Grew up in the Spring looking like the canola that grows around here on the farms. I ignored it, a little disappointed.

Then the Senposai got kinda robust and began to send up shoots. They were great and I continued to harvest them week after week after week. Just like broccoli shoots except they are different and with easily as long a season as broccoli side shoots. I haven't had much luck with gai lon (Chinese broccoli) and DW doesn't like broccoli raab. As an alternative to broccoli, Senposai is super!

digitS

Funny you guys revived this thread. I was reading in one of the many greenhouse books I borrowed from the library about asian veggies. One of the books has a whole section on them, carrying on about how well they grow in the greenhouse over winter and to put mustard greens on your sandwich for a healthy substitute to lettuce and mustard. I was also looking for some recipies so I could try before we dedicate a whole area of the garden to the asians. I guess you solved that problem too. Thanks digit!!

Billie

Stir fry is so easy! I realized some time ago that I can think of stir fry like making a salad.

The "salad dressing" goes in the hot pan - in steps.

First the oil . . . next salt & the spices . . . finally a dash of a good vinegar. The veggies, of course, go in the pan after the oil. The only "concession" to cooking is a splash of some water (or better yet, chicken stock).

Variations are e n d l e s s . . . . .

And, while I'm on this subject: Do our cooks think that the product linked below would work?? I'm sorry that the photo isn't larger. If you have the Pinetree catalog, you'll find it there.

dS

I have looked at that grill too. I have seen it in a few of the cooks specialty stores and thought it would be cool to try, maybe someday when I have more money.

Billie

So, it wouldn't be actually stir fry but it would hold sliced vegetables so they wouldn't fall into the fire, right?

Would you toss the veggies in oil before putting them on the heat? Seasonings too?

Maybe it is just the name that confuses me. It sounds good but doesn't seem like stir fry. I can imagine everything falling out if it was shaken or "stirred."

S'

The one I saw looked like it was the right size for a small grill, and that is precisly what I thought it was, a grilling basket for veggies on the grill. If I remember correctly the sides were about 3" high, so not too low to stir. Yes, I would coat in olive oil and seasoning before grilling and, YUMMY, enjoy.

Digit-
I just wanted to let you know I have read and re-read all your advice and Im ordering seed accordingly. Fedco has a great selection of seed overall but Im having trouble limiting myself!

I thought of you, Steve, when I bought a bag full of the freshest, crispiest baby Bok Choi over the weekend. We ended up just cutting it up as a salad with vinaigrette.

Don't limit yourself . . . I'd appreciate help in evaluating aaallllll the different choices for our gardens!!

digitS