We had some of that type where I lived in western WA state - much water, acidic loamy soil, humid. Interested to hear if someone gets it to survive here.

Dan

Thanks I'm sure going to try!

Nurseries sell azaleas and Rhododendrons here in the Denver metro area and I have tried to grow hardy azaleas (Northern Lights series) but have had no luck. They have all died. It is not because they could not survive the cold temps, but, IMHO, because of the alkaline clay soil in this area. Here is a quote from the article I have linked below:

Rhododendrons and azaleas belong to the Ericaceous family of plants...snip...This is a most important fact to know, because all the plants in this family share one very distinctive trait in common; they all have an affinity for acidic soil. In fact, with only a few exceptions, all members of this family will languish and eventually die in alkaline or even neutral garden soil!...snip...So stick an azalea in clay soil, and you have effectively committed "herbicide".

I think their blooms are beautiful so they are well worth trying - perhaps your micro climate and soil will be just fine for them. Good luck!

(Just curious, sorie6, you are asking about growing plants in the Denver area but list your zone as "4;" to my knowledge, there are no zone 4 areas in the Denver metro area, just zones 5-6, so you might want to recheck your "zone affiliation." :-) This site lists zones by zip code, which is pretty cool: Hardiness zones by zipcode )

Holly

Here is a link that might be useful: Growing Azaleas and Rhododendrons in the North

I totally agree with Holly and Dan! The biggest challenge to growing them here will be your alkaline clay soil and the lack of moisture and humidity. If you want to give it the best try possible, you might want to consider actually digging out a "shrub size" section of soil and replacing it with a store bought soil with lots of organic matter (peat moss is acidic). If you should decide to do that tho, be sure to intermix your natural soil with the store bought stuff where they meet---water won't properly flow between two totally different soil types and you could wind up with a situation that amounts to "soil in a flower pot that's being kept too wet" if there isn't some mixing of the soils where they meet. That might sound like a big project, but I think you're going to be mostly disappointed if you plant it in your natural soil, or even in "somewhat improved" clay soil.

Having said all that! I know Kelly carries some so I checked the Timberline site and he lists a few different varieties of Azaleas, zones 4 and 5, and also has a few different varieties of Rhododendrons, zones 4 and 5, but I think they'd be even harder since they're evergreen, especially with low humidity in winter when they're dormant. Paulino's carries a few of each too (at least they used to!), but they don't list their varieties online.

It sounds like you're game to have a go at this, so definitely do let us know how it's going! I love them--both of them--too!

Skybird

Ericaceae is my favorite family. One of my personal tradeoffs for living here is I can't grow them here (I won't work that hard). When I had the business in Sacto, one of my signatures was Erica darleyensis 'Silberschmeltze' or 'Furzey' in a ribbon in front of something blooming at the same time. That combo got me several referrals. I did a paper in undergrad on azalea propagation, really marvelous plants. Finding them on the trail in May-June in Northern CA is wonderful, too: you smell them before you see them.

Sigh...um...erm...where was I?

Nonetheless, I love them but can't have them. Maybe if we lived in alluvial soil in Denver or along the Platte and I added sulfur and drainage and protection from north wind.

Dan

I feel your pain, Dan! If I had been a gardener when I lived there, I probably would never have left Vermont. I still remember the rich, black soil and all the wonderful, lush greenery and beautiful wild flowers everywhere. (I don't miss the winters or mud season though!)

Azaleas, heathers and Rhododendrons are beautiful plants and oh how I wish I could grow them here. I've never tried growing Rhododendrons here, but have killed both azaleas and heathers. I expect to see such plants at the big box stores, but I am always amazed when the "good" nurseries such as Echther's, Paulinos and Timberline offer plants for sale that clearly are suited neither for our semi-arid climate nor our soils.

Perhaps they do this for the folks that can afford to bulldoze up an area of their very large yard and put in imported soil from the PNW or New England for the proper PH and then they can afford to install a misting system (with acid added to our alkaline water) to provide the proper humidity!

We are not trying to thoroughly discourage you, sorie6, just preparing you in case the azaleas don't make it. If you are successful, please let us know how you did it because if there is a way, I, for one, would love to give azaleas a try again. Beautiful colours and wonderful scents....

Holly

ok they say my zone is 5a! It was hard to find my zone when I did it yrs. ago. I couldn't find a map that good. thank you!!
I'm still going to give the azaleas a go! i bought them so why not?
I've got 2 in pots that I've had for 3 yr. and they bloom every spring. i put them out all summer and of course bring them in in the fall and put them in the basement. I had one bloom this winter!!
So I may have to grow them in the house so be it.
thanks for all your info!

update: I did as Skybird suggested dug up soil added lots of pine needles amended it with peat moss ect. They have buds and I hope the blooms open before the first frost. As for next yr. we will just have to wait and see. I'm surprised they've lived this long. A neighbor down the street planted them on the south side of her house and they died in a week.':(
I'll keep you posted and will take a pic if they bloom!!

2012 update!
They made it through the winter and have leaves on them They were really tall so I cut them back this spring . Was told that was the wrong thing to do. So guess they won't bloom this yr.
They got frost bit last year and they had buds! I guess I planted them ot late. Oh well.
I'm not giving up. I'm going to baby them and see what happens. At least they are still ALIVE!!!!

You go, girl! :-)

Glad they made it thru the winter, and thanks for updating us!

Skybird

I have several Northern Lights--all planted in the same area. They are VERY protected and have been in the ground several years. I have lots of pine needles so that might help. They haven't bloomed much at all but I am reworking the area and they will now get more light. I am hoping they will bloom someday--this Calif. native misses her azaleas!

I have four deciduous azaleas and have had them for many years (they were transplanted to a new location two years ago). Two are Exbury's (nameless from Home Depot!). They survived weather fluctuations of this last winter - barely. Two are Northern Lights (Rosy Lights and Tri-lights). They laugh at our winters and are happy and now in full bloom. All are planted in the shade or semi shade close to a pine tree and I do amend the soil, lots of compost, etc. and mulch some but don't fuss with them otherwise. Haven't tested soil but I suspect it's neutral or somewhat acid - lots of compost and sometimes I add sulpher. I'm shopping for more Northern Lights. They thrive.

Where do you live, fhund? With "neutral or somewhat acid" soil it sure isn't around here! Glad your azaleas are thriving, still wish I could grow them here.

I am stubborn, apparently, so it took me quite a few years and lots of "fights" - most of which I lost - but I finally figured out that a gardener has to work WITH the environment she or he lives in instead of fighting against it. So, I have to grow things that actually like alkaline clay soil, major temperature extremes , one day to the next, and dry winter winds, along with conditions from drought to flood - or plants that can live in containers with non-native soil. lol - such is gardening in Colorado, anyway.

Holly

• I live in Boulder. Suspect the soil here is no better than elsewhere on the Front Range but soil under pines tends to acidify and we have added compost over the years - and still do so. By now the soil is black and good. Rather enjoy the challenge of growing non native stuff. (The lupine are spectacular right now and the tri-lights azalea is in full bloom!). Anyone know where I can locate a Northern Lights azalea "Hi-Lights."

Holly, we have beautiful wildflowers here, too! In fact, I think a lot of the grassland/ponderosa savanna flowers of the front range are more beautiful that then shady woodland lot, most of which tend to be mostly foliage with just a few diminutive (and usually white) flowers. Sure violas are nice, but compared to the spires of yucca or flash of red from a clump of Indian paintbrush, puffy blanket flowers and beaming sunflowers, it just doesn't compare LOL. And the desert-y wildflowers, well, you won't find a magenta colored bush of Colorado four o'clocks or bright scarlet and cobalt blue penstemons in Vermont ;). On the perennials forum, I have seen many a member bemoan the fact that agastache's can only be grown as annuals!

Unfortunately, most of this stuff doesn't thrive in clay, because Colorado topsoil (what small layer of it there is) is...and you're gonna laugh and call me crazy.... sharp draining, and sandy! The problem is, when they build subdivisions they strip all the topsoil away, usually load it into trucks and sell it off to the guys who then charge us buy it back to put in our yard! Whats left behind is the subsoil... which IS clay.

Fhund, we have native lupines here in Colorado!

Sounds as if you have built a nice "micro-climate" for your azaleas, fhund - soil that is "black and good" sounds quite yummy!

If you don't mind buying on line, I did find a source of the Northern Lights 'Hi Lights' via a Google search; haven't purchased from this place but it does get mostly positive reviews on Dave's Garden:

http://www.rarefindnursery.com/index.php/azaleas/r-azalea-deciduous/r-azalea-deciduous-northern-hi-lights.html

We do indeed have beautiful wildflowers here, Zach, and lots of other very nice plants that thrive here, including many that are not natives, so it is not as if we are without plants to grow and enjoy. You know how it is - the grass is always greener....etc., etc., and there are just some things that grow elsewhere, thriving under much different conditions, that I would love to be able to grow here, such as azaleas, Northern Red Oak and many other things that just don't like it here.

I do have some things growing here that shouldn't be all that happy, such as bamboo and Siliphium perfoliatum (Cup Plant,) but mostly I have "given in" and have plants that can deal with and, hopefully, thrive in, the conditions we have here. Of course, the extra soggy May we had didn't help some of the plants that prefer much drier soil; they are not looking very good now and I have a feeling I will lose some of my "drought tolerant" perennials, but they are tougher than we think so I remain somewhat hopeful. The Siliphium, on the other hand, which likes moist (loamy) soil is looking quite vigorous right now.

I didn't realize the "native" topsoil here was sandy; interesting. I did know that the builders of Denver and elsewhere did us no favors by removing what topsoil there was - and/or piling the crud they dug out for the foundations on top of the topsoil and leaving us with that to plant in. There are still a few folks here where I live that were original owners when this subdivision was built back in the 1950's; they still remember the morass of sticky clay mud that was all they had for yards when they first moved in!

Holly

You know Holly, I read a technique for growing blueberries in alkaline soil, where the gardener essentially makes a large, wooden box, sinks it into the ground and fills it with more acidic dirt to plant the shrubs. Not sure if it works well or not, but, hey, if it does, you could do it for azaleas.

Of course, the extra soggy May we had didn't help some of the plants that prefer much drier soil; they are not looking very good now and I have a feeling I will lose some of my "drought tolerant" perennials, but they are tougher than we think so I remain somewhat hopeful.

Yeah, NO KIDDING! I don't think this was the best year to start a xeric gardening project, all my new drought tolerant plants are looking exceptionally lackluster and sad.

Yeah, construction companies definitely don't build with gardens in mind, just acres and acres of bluegrass with the stereotypical tree smack dab in in the center and the foundation plantings of juniper or barberry. Course, now a days, most lots are lucky to have enough room for a single viola to grace the mcmansion that is so close to the house next door you can shake hands out the window.

A similar method of growing blueberries that I have read about is to dig out a pit into which you put one of those big bales of peat moss and then you plant the blueberries directly into the bale of peat moss - basically just slashing open the bag to make room for the plant. All the work it would take to dig an approximately 3-4' long, 2-3' wide and deep pit in the heavy clay I have in my yard never appealed to me, so I never tried it. Easier to travel to Oregon (or New England) to pick your own blueberries!

Gardening is often hard work, but it should be enjoyable, too. Personally, I don't need the added frustration and pain of watching plants die because they just don't belong here but I was foolish enough to plant them anyway. To me, you are just setting yourself up for heartache. I wanted to grow Japanese Maples, Mountain Laurels and azalea's, wanted the brilliant scarlet and orange and gold colors of the fall foliage that I grew up with, but....

I gave up trying to remake the soil so that it suits the plants long ago, realizing that "Mama (Nature) knows best" and that there is a much greater chance of success if you suit the plant to the soil and other "normal" conditions for your area! And, as you stated earlier, Zach, there are a lot of truly beautiful and worthwhile plants that do just fine here in Colorado.

Speaking of frustration, soggy May has now become soggy June. With only a few exceptions, my plants are NOT suited to the current swampy conditions we have this year. Last night the rain - and hail - returned. It rained so hard and so long that I again have standing water in my back yard. I pumped water out of it for over an hour this morning and probably had a thousand gallons or more to go (hours of more pumping with the little 360 gallons/hr. pump that I have,) before it began to rain again. I look forward to the day - please tell me I won't have to wait until next year! - when I can put my rubber boots, hoses and pump away and enjoy being in my garden again!

Holly

I would love a Japanese maple, but, like you said, unless you have a spectacular microclimate somewhere, we are just not really suited for them. My aunt in Portland however, has a beautiful one by her front walkway. I looked at them while I was strolling through Tagawa's last year, so much money for a plant most people will probably wind up digging out and throwing away! Over 200$ for a small sapling!

I see lots of sugar maples though, and they seem to do okay. They do have a nice scarlet fall color. Red osier dogwood is also native to our foothills, while I don't know about the fall color of the leaves themselves, the bright red twigs standing out against a backdrop of snow in midwinter is not only beautiful, it gives you some winter interest as well. They have a dwarf form of that, too.

Some grasses also change color, switch grass (P. virgatum) "Shenandoah" turns maroon as the summer progresses and little bluestem (S. scoparium) dries to a red/copper color. If it ever decided to dry out on a weekend day for me, I have both of those to put in, and I might be adding another of the switch grass as well.

Can't think of any orange or gold off the top of my head, but I know they're out there Holly!

Hank Williams once did one of his Luke the Drifter records called "we're still a livin, so everything's okay" kind of reminding me of this year's garden.... No matter how bad things are and how mad I am about this s!@#ty weather, we're still a livin, so everything's okay I guess. And hey, at least I don't have to cover my native plants from hail. Been though a good 6-8 storms by now and not so much a scratch on them! Course, that may be a different story if we get the golf ball sized hail like they got out there north of Castle Rock the other day.