Cnetter, the stems are hollow. I didn't have this problem before, just within the past 3 years, and it seems to be getting worse. Winter kill, it may well be, because this last year was very mild in the fall, and then sub-zero for a few days in there.

If there's a hole, then you have cane borers - which are really common where I live. Sometimes the hole travels all the way down to the bud union. In my experience, these canes always die back to where the hole ends.
This year, seal every cut larger than a skewer with Elmer's glue, nail polish, or something similar (some people use vaseline). It keeps the borer out.
Somewhere I've a picture of one of these holes. If I can't find it, I'll take another - I always miss sealing some canes.

I was thinking cane borers too...they killed off a Persian Yellow of mine before I figured out what was causing the damage. Glue does prevent the problem.

As for taking care of the problem once a cane is infested, you can try to cut off the cane well below the necrotic tissue, until you see healthy pith. Then seal the cut cane. I tried this on my Persian Yellow only to find that the borers had already made it down into the "trunk" and up into the other canes. I dug out the whole rose at that point and destroyed it.

I take a rose-growing approach similar to Cnetter - I grow mostly Old Garden Roses, Rugosas, Canadian Explorer Series, and a few modern floribundas and Austins. Anything that's grafted (about 25% of my roses) is buried so that the bud union is at least 4 inches below the soil line. I then put compost or alpaca manure on top of that, then a layer of mulch.

I avoid the hybrid teas - they just don't survive the winters up here at 7500 ft, plus I don't really like the way that the majority of them look. I personally prefer a different bloom form.

Nancy

The roses were bare root when I planted them and they had just started to get their first leaves of spring when the "Sister-out-law" begged us to sit her Blue Healer while they went out of town for a week. That dog ate about everything in and around my house except his food!!
Anyhow, maybe in a year or two I will get around to trying again. I sure miss the Peace Rose.

B

I spent 3 days heavily pruning roses, hauling a mountain dead and diseased stems down to the swamp, and they went from 5 feet high down to a foot. Of course, they all started shooting new growth, and we were down to 22º last night which turned all that to toast. I'll try to seal them up tomorrow. Thanks!!!

I've had fine luck growing floribundas here in Utah Valley. I'm at 4500' or so, not as high as some of you. I have a hedge of J&P's 'Pink Simplicity' roses, and they always have healthy green growth. But they don't always bloom as well as I'd like. I get a few dead canes each year, but not that bad. As far as figuring out why they don't bloom great, I think some of them are getting too much water (overspray from the lawn). I think that because the ones blooming better are getting less of the overspray. I'll try to correct that this year.

I also have FABULOUS luck with Meidiland roses -- they're a shorter shrub with long, arching canes and small flowers. Mine bloom like crazy all summer. I have the Ruby Meidiland variety. They look great at the top of a small rock wall in my front yard.

ONE QUESTION, though: I am thinking of planting two climbing roses to grow over my backyard arbor. This arbor is in the middle of a semi-circular hedge of the Pink Simplicity roses. I'd like some advice. What will grow fast, flower for a long season, and be compatible in color with the pink rose hedge? I'm thinking I'll avoid pink blooms for variety's sake. Also, these roses will need to compete well with the roots of four nearby Swedish aspens. Here's a photo of the spot. Any ideas?

{{gwi:194147}}

What a beautiful place, Stevation.

Why is there corn growing beside your arbor?

Someone, quick, help him with a rose selection before he plants a cucumber vine!

Steve's digits

I keep hoping the folks who grow the Canadian Hardy Explorer rose will pop in. I've got a lot of roses, but not many climbers, and I know there are roses better suited for that trellis than the ones I grow. Jeanne Lajoie would get quite tall in a protected place like that, and be gorgeous, but it's very very PINK.

My first thought when I saw it was a grape.
We've got a large wooden trellis that the grape covers every year, making it a shady private "room".
Here's a poor picture of a small part of it (ignore the goofy kid).
I have a better picture somewhere.

I found a better picture of the grape, but I'm thinking it may cover the trellis too well:
{{gwi:1197105}}

Wow, you just can't tell the scale of it from that picture.

(How does one ignore the kid, Cnetter?

Can you be certain that she isn't still in there? :o)

Steve's digits.

Wow, your pics are beautiful cnetter. Double delight is one of my favorite roses. Does Europeana grow well here? I love how you can cut one stem and get a large spray of beautiful red roses for a vase. How can you ignore the kid? She's too cute.

Stevation-that spot is so lovely. We have grapes growing over an arbor leading to our front door and I love the look and the grapes.

I've been pretty adamant about not growing roses in this house because of our private well but now that the junipers are gone, there are a few areas that cry out for some shrub roses.

Are there shrub roses anyone can recommend that don't get too tall and tolerate less water than most roses?

Thanks,
Charlene

"Are there shrub roses anyone can recommend that don't get too tall and tolerate less water than most roses?"

Now there's a type of rose I know something about. Well, except the too tall part. Most of mine get rather big.
Any rose you plant will need plenty of water the first year until it is established, but after that, many shrub roses can do with less than a hybrid tea and still bloom.

How tall is too tall? Would a once bloomer do, or does it have to repeat. Do you like fragrant?

Digit Steve, since she was playing with my "Magic Fairy Dust WandTM" (souvenir from the ren fair), she could be anywhere. Better be at school.

Cnetter-I envisioned planting some shrub roses along the front of the house underneath a bedroom window (my son's bedroom window, so thorns may be good to deter climbing out the window during the teenage years haha). I don't want them to get too tall as to block the whole window. So maybe, three feet? I do have a few spots that are not in front of a window and could accomodate a taller variety.

I'd be willing to give it more water the first year. I do love fragrance but would forsake that for a bloomer that was right for the spot.

Thanks!

Charlene

I mentioned the Meidiland roses, which have graceful arching canes and don't get any taller than three feet (at least mine are usually less then three ft, with annual pruning in the spring). I don't know about their water needs, but they bloom for a long time (not fragrant, though).

I went to search for a link to Meidiland roses for you to see, and lo and behold, Google comes up with a page on Cnetter's own website! Check it out below. Very impressive stuff, Cnetter!

Here is a link that might be useful: Scarlet Meidiland Rose

Thanks Stevation. Those are beautiful and may be a great choice for me.

And Cnetter, WOW, once again. Too cool that your website came up in the google search Stevation did for Meidiland roses.

I'm going to look up more info on them and see what other colors are available.

Thanks again,
Charlene

Wow, look at the copyright date on that page! I have got to update my website and move it off that server.

is another Meidiland rose that's real pretty and isn't too tall. And there's a white Meidiland and a cherry Meidiland and othe Meidilands.
Seafoam is a very east to grow, low grower that only gets about 2 feet tall. Extremely easy to root cuttings, and even layers easily.
Various rugosas are very hardy and VERY thorny, if you're looking for a deterant. :-)
Felicite Parmentier is a once blooming alba that is very winter hardy and has a fantastic scent:

My favorite short (about 3 or 4 feet tall) would be Rose de Rescht. It is a nice dense little shrub that blooms with deep pink blooms that are very fragrant, it repeats and it's quite cane hardy:

Thank you, thank you Cnetter. I just had a very nice few minutes wandering around your rose garden on your web page. Beautiful photos and so inspiring. I also appreciated your straightforward description of the different classes of roses, to me a very confusing subject.
Steviewonder

Thanks Cnetter. I've earmarked those varieties and have some ideas where they will look good. I don't think pink will go well next to the house, so I'll do some searching for the white and peachy colored varieties. I've mentioned on previous threads that I'm not one to "baby" plants so I'll look for the tough ones you've mentioned.

Thank you!

Charlene

cnetter asked about Canadian Explorer Series climbers - in a phrase, they are pretty durn nice! My only issue with them is that they are only mildly scented (I prefer lots of fragrance in a rose), but they really are choice climbers for Zone 5. My favorites to date are John Cabot and John Davis, but I'm also trying some new ones this year. Both JC and JD have zero winter dieback and can tolerate a lower amount of watering after they're established.

I'm also trying New Dawn this year, so we'll see how it does at 7500 ft. I'll position this one against the south side of the house so it will have some protection that JC and JD don't have.

I haven't grown any of the Canadian Explorer shrubs until this year. I'll be trying Alexander MacKenzie, Jens Munk, Frontenac, and William Baffin.

Nancy

So, do you think I need to worry about winter dieback in my zone 6 garden at 4500 ft? I do always find a small amount of dead canes on my floribundas each spring, but it's not too bad. And maybe those ones had borers or some other problem besides the cold.

I just want to be sure that if I plant climbers on my arbor, I'm not going to have to keep cutting long canes down when they die from winter kill. What do you think?

In general, my taste tends more towards the big, thuggy, rose-that-ate-my-border kinds of roses (John Cabot, Harison's Yellow, Champagne Arches) but for something a little more tame, I love Applejack, General Jacquemont, Four Inch Heels, and Rosa glauca (one of my absolute, all-time favorites!). They have shown themselves to be bone hardy, disease-free, and thoroughly entertaining. I left my mature roses behind at the the last house (before moving to my "forever" house) but I planted the aforementioned roses before the boxes were unpacked, and they're coming along well...

Here is a link that might be useful: Champagne Arches

Joseph's coat has come back very strongly for me... i pruned down to two main canes earlier in the spring, but there is new growth all over the place now. It's certainly starting to look as if it will eat my fence.

Okay, before I ask a rose question, be aware that I know nothing about them. The only experience I have had was with a pale pink one at my last house that was there when I moved in. It was the thorniest plant I had ever seen and even though I cut off all of the dead canes in the spring, and trimmed it back to control it's size it would become a monster by the end of the summer. Well, it was pretty when it first started to bloom each year, but it was waaaay too big for the spot it was in, so I dug it up, which took three days!

Anyway, right now where I live there are several places around town that have the most gorgeous rose bush in bloom. I'm talking stop the car and be tempted to knock on a strangers door, gorgeous! It is a bright orangish red with yellow centers. Most of them are pretty tall, at least five feet, with a somewhat arching habit, and just covered in blooms (single).

I looked at that High Country Roses website, but I didn't see anything that looked like it. Does anyone know what this might be? The fact that I've never noticed them before, makes me think it might not be much of a rebloomer.

I can pretty much guarantee they are Austrian Copper, also known as Rosa foetida bicolor. It is a once bloomer. Harlequin's Garden in Boulder has it.

Hi High,

I'm sure cnetter or somebody can better answer your question about which rose you might be looking at, and I don't think this is what it is, but because of the colors you mentioned, I just thought you might be interested in seeing a picture of 'Judy Garland'. I don't have one now, but it's a real favorite of mine, and if I ever need to replace one of the few that were in at this house when I bought it, it'll definitely be on my short list! I love the color, the shape, and the scent.

Good luck figuring out which one you're looking at,
Skybird

Here is a link that might be useful: 'Judy Garland'

I grew Roses up at 8500 ft & they were beauties, LOL Not any Teas though. The best Roses to grow in Colorado I think are Rugusa, John Cabot & any Antique roses. They do wonderful up at a high altitude...imagine how they will grow in Denver. I never mulched them at all & still grew;)

Oops - my last post with Austrian Copper in it, was in response to Highalttransplant.

Autrian Copper is in bloom everywhere right now. It's a hardy species rose.

I just found another pic I had of Austrian Copper, showing more yellow in the bloom:

Here is something about roses.

I know nothing about them and did lots of research, which all came from recommendations here. I made my choices; five from the Canadian "Explorer" and "Parkland" series. Then, based on word of mouth from the Ned. neighbors and a cute little old lady who lives down the street, I chose a recommended nursery, "The Flower Bin." The word was that the nursery was more expensive but well worth it and likely to have what I want. I did it!! I went there today and chose two roses from my list, both from the Parkland series and both hardy to zone 2b. They are Morden Blush, light pink/white with button centers and Winnepeg Parks, deep pink/light red with 22 petals.

I have no idea if I can do this or not, but I asked lots of questions and double checked that the plants would do well up here at this elevation.

I think they will do fine!! Thanks to all who post here, the information has been highly valuable.

J.

Has anyone had problems with squirrels eating the buds off of newly planted roses? It almost seems like they're helping with the pruning, but I'd much rather take care of that myself :-)

Dafy

I have not had the squirrel (or, as I like to say, "skwerl") problem, but my first try with roses was a disaster. The deer ate everything. Poor graham thomas was nothing but a nub. I used netting, but it would have let squirrels in.

How about those chicken wire cage-like things they put on newly planted seedlings? like the link I am attaching, but with a wired top?

http://wdfw.wa.gov/wlm/living/graphics/elk8.jpg

good luck!

What is odd is that they leave the established roses alone and only seem to want the ones that are just planted (of course they also chewed off the coneflower flowers when I planted that), but this is only when I plant a rose (or other plant) that has flowers already opening and then after that they seem to leave it alone. Maybe I should try training them where to prune :-)

I've only had buds bitten off by a lab mix who watched me deadhead one day, and figured the flowers must be edible (it was always a mistake to pick things in front of her).
I built cages out of wire fencing to protect the smaller roses.
Later, my mom made the same type of cages to protect her newly planted OGRs until they were big enough to withstand some deer pruning.

I have absolutely no idea if this works or not, but........

When I was just back in Chicago staying with my brother, I was out looking at my nieceÂs gardens, and I found little wads of animal hair here and there around some of the plants. It didnÂt look like it had just blown there, so I asked her what was going on. She said she had heard that pet/animal hair would keep squirrels out of the plants, so she had put some down around the things they had been eating/digging up. She said that so far it had been working. If you donÂt have pets, I donÂt know where youÂd get the hairÂthey have 3 cats and 2 dogsÂone of them BIGÂbut if you have a source for animal hair, you just might want to give it a tryÂfor squirrels. I canÂt imagine it would do anything at all for deer!

I love your rose eating lab story, Cnetter!

Skybird

Cnetter, I believe you were right about those roses being Austrian Copper. They were gorgeous for about a week, and now are nothing to look at. Don't think it is worth it no matter how pretty they are, considering how big the plant is, and that it doesn't have any visual interest the other 51 weeks out of the year.

BTW, my mother in law used to live in an area visited regularly by deer, and she said they only ate the yellow roses, no other color. Weird, huh?

Dafy, are these ground squirrels or grey tree squirrels?

There are 2 walnut trees across the street and the squirrels are in them all the time - nuts or no. Kind of interesting that they don't build their nests there - rather, the nests I see are about 200 feet away in smaller trees.

We've always had a squirrel visitor now and then but thru the Fall and again this year, we've had a regular squirrel visitor. She's a she - noticed the nipples one day. Then, a baby showed up with her about a week ago. DW refers to the mom as "my friend" but not sure if theyÂre going to be a problem - just becoming very tame. I'm still wondering if a nest will be showing up in one of our trees.

Regarding ground squirrels - they are a disaster for the garden. I don't know what species you have but in several gardens, it has been necessary to meet Columbian ground squirrels with serious resistance. Given the opportunity, they will lay waste to the environment around them by eating every darn green thing they can sink their teeth in.

digitS'

I think they're tree squirrels. It doesn't bother me too much other than looking forward to the flower opening when I plant it and then finding the bud chewed off and laying next to the plant the next morning, since they seem to leave them alone after that. I was really just curious if anyone else had the same problem.

They have never bothered with the two established roses that were here when we moved in (I think they're planted too close to the house for the squirrels comfort actually). We planted three last year that they ate the buds off, but haven't touched the new bud growth on those this year.

I don't believe that a ground squirrel ever climbs a tree.

Nor does a tree squirrel ever enter a hole in the ground.

One is furry and cute. The other causes harm, misfortune and destruction.

If I understand my metrics and info from U of Oregon and the Smithsonian (Smithsonian?) -- Nearly all ground squirrel feeding is within 200 feet of the burrow. In an alfalfa field, a female and her litter of about 6 will consume over 100 pounds of plants over the course of about 4 months of activity. Most of the feeding occurs in the early months of the growing season - so that's 100 pounds of seedlings and young plants.

Over 100 ground squirrels often populate a single acre. Daily consumption of squirrels in these numbers is equivalent to one cow/ 3 acres. A cow!

digitS'

I donÂt have ground squirrels since I live in the "city" (or voles as near as I can tell), but tree squirrels can do a LOT of damage too. At the last house I was in, I had a lot and thought they were really cute, so I started feeding them whatever I had around. Then I started feeding the birds. Then the squirrels started eating theÂnot so cheapÂbirdseed. Then I TRIED to quit feeding the squirrels but it was too late. I tried everything including hanging the one feeder 6' down from the branch on a thread-thin piece of wire. DonÂt ask me how a squirrel can shinny 6' down a thread, but they can! Never got rid of them. Moved out!

I never started feeding them at this house, but they still invite themselves to dinner. My birdfeeders on in the middle of the lawn on metal posts now, and they STILL get up into the feeders sometimes!

ThatÂs just my squirrel/birdseed rant, but they can also do an amazing amount of damage to the plants. I have an interesting new variety of hen & chicks called ÂSquirrel BitÂ! They seem to think the things are candy. And they dig all over in the beds, burying things and just generally digging things up. I think they may be digging for things they buried previously, but it sure makes a mess. When I was pulling out weeds one day I found something growing from a BIG nut of some sortÂkinda looked like a horse chestnut, but I donÂt know if we even have those out hereÂand IÂm sure it was buried by a squirrel. I havenÂt had them chewing off buds or flowers at this house yet, but I did have that happen a few times at the other house. And I have a few flats of sedums and hen & chicks and other stuff IÂm TRYING to start, and IÂm always finding the hen & chicks pulled out and the soil "cultivated!" IÂve completely lost some of it, and now IÂm moving the flats up onto the deck overnite. And theyÂve never gotten into the few spring bulbs I have yet, but if they ever do, itÂll be all out war.

I still think theyÂre cute!

Hmmm! I just noticed this is the rose thread!

Skybird

Will you do damage to shrub roses by pruning them throughout the summer to control their size? I guess that probably takes away from thier blooming, right?

How else do you keep them shapely? Or do you?

These threads do tend to "creep" don't they? But, that's okay. (I hope someone can answer Finn's question. :o)

I must say that Skybird's account of the tree squirrels stealing seed from the birds, competing with her on their own digging agenda, and chewing on one variety of one species of kind-of-a-weird ornamental anyway - has not terrified me so far.

Ground squirrels will turn the landscape into a moonscape. They are worse than marmots. So, I suppose, they are worse than groundhogs.

I'm still eying the tree squirrels with suspicion. They do have a plentiful enemy here - cats. Why do you suppose that a cat would pull catnip out of a pot and chew on it when there's catnip all over the place growing in the ground?

Not the worse thing the felines do, however, and as gardeners - we all know what that is. I'd be happier with a buried tree nut any day of the month.

digitS'

All of my Jackson Perkins roses froze out one exceptionally cold winter. The ones that survived were the old fashioned roses. I recently planted several Bailey roses and they are blooming now. The nursery that I like the most buys their rose stock from Bailey nurseries. They even sent someone on a request and presented a program to our Master Gardeners. They specialize in roses for the Nothern states. We have some of their brochures and you can find them on line if you search Bailey Nurseries They have a breeding program to select winter hardy roses.

I thought I'd chime in. I'm a newbie to the area and I hope I can manage to get some roses to survive. I guess I should have asked first. I just recently planted an "Iceberg" rose bush (white), "Queen Elizabeth" (pink), and "Let Freedom Ring" (red). I hope I can keep them surviving. So far the Let Freedom Ring is doing the best. Even with all the recent wind...the Queen Elizabeth had one bloom and the wind blew it all off. The Iceberg doesn't have any buds right now. Any tips? Should I have bought something else?

Thanks.

This reminds me of some rose questions I've asked in the past but I still don't think I've found the answer. Maybe Cnetter can answer some of these?

I have what should be a wonderful hedge of 17 pink floribunda roses in a crescent around a portion of lawn, with a lovely arbor in the middle of the crescent. But these darn roses don't flower much! They are Jackson & Perkins 'Pink Simplicity' roses (actually, I've seen some call them shrub roses rather than floribundas). They've been in the ground for six years now, and the foliage is always nice and healthy, but they don't bloom well at all. I've given them a high-phosphorous fertilizer, dug into little trenches around them last year in the spring and some more this spring. I've tried watering them with Miracle Gro at times.

One of them flowers quite well, for some odd reason, but the other 16 don't. The one has some good blooms right now, but the others hardly have any buds. Sometimes when they get buds, they are tiny, tiny little things and they fall off if you touch them.

Right now, I've noticed some aphids on them, and I assume they can suck some of the strength out of the plants so they won't flower well. I'll spray them soon to get rid of the aphids, but I don't think the aphids are responsible for there being hardly any flower buds in the first place.

Here are the main questions, then:

Did I buy the wrong kind of roses -- is there something about 'Pink Simplicity' that doesn't do well in alkaline soils or in our climate? I'm not as high up as many of you from CO -- I'm in Utah Valley, zone 6b, 4500' altitude. But anyway, would I be best off if I rip them out and plant different roses? I have other roses that flower just fine in my yard, including a bunch of Ruby Meidilands and a 'Nearly Wild' that's two seasons old.

Or is it possible that the watering these roses get could cause problems with blooming? They catch overspray from the lawn sprinklers (twice a week), and it's been enough water that I stopped using the drip lines I had set up for them. Does slightly too much water inhibit bloom even if the shrubs look healthy?

By the way, I'd also like to know the answer to Finn's question above. Does pruning my roses for height during the summer reduce their blooming? This year, as an experiment, I have not pruned these roses at all. They're about 5' tall right now and growing fine, but again, no blooms.

Please help!

I'm going to take a shot at Finn's question.

In the rose greenhouse we cut roses 365 days a year. Individual plants were cut back to about 24 inches each Summer. They were back in bloom in 2 or 3 months.

So what does cutting a rose stem amount to? Well, it is an act of pruning, isn't it? Pinching new growth to encourage bushiness or to delay blooming could also be considered pruning.

When cutting flowers or pinching, we would cut the stem to a strong bud.

When cutting flowers, sometimes we would "undercut" an earlier cut so as to curtail upward growth - the new bud break would actually be lower than the earlier one. Undercutting was only done when we had lots of sunlight so that the plant had energy reserves necessary to grow from a less than ideal location on the canes.

And so, pruning was going on constantly throughout the annual production of the plants. We were harvesting flowers but the cuts were sometimes intended to limit height. If it is done carefully and during periods of rapid growth, I doubt that it amounts to much injury to the plant.

digitS'

Steviation -A thought - did you check for thrips? If they are heavy on a plant then sometimes the bud doesn't open. They are very small insects of 1/8 inch about as big as a thread. They like roses and glads. They can drill holes in buds and then they do not open. Or if it does the color may be streaked or flower stunted. By putting a piece of paper under the flower you can tap on it and soemtimes see them.

I've never grown Simplicity, but one of my neighbors has and his do well. But my Nearly Wild does better.
Rose pests do seem to attack some roses more than others. One major pest I have is Rose Curculio, or Snout Nosed Beetle. Somewhere I've got a real good pic of it, but can't find it at the moment. They drill little holes in the buds and lay their eggs, and then the bud die and fall off, or bloom with holes in the flowers.
I've got thrips, but they only discolor the light colored roses a bit. I blast aphids with the hose.

Finn, with once blooming roses, you can prune them anytime after the early summer flush. Pruning before the flush cuts off all the forth coming blooms on these roses. Repeat blooming roses can be pruned pretty much anytime up through late August, when it is recommended to stop to allow the plant to slow down and harden off for winter. This is because pruning inspires new growth.

I have 'Nearly Wild' and it's doing great, too. Mine's young and only maybe 18" tall so far. I don't think they get very tall, right? I don't know if it would work for this hedge because of its shortness. I want something 3-4' tall, I think.

Mine gets at most 3 feet tall. I always recommend Rose de Rescht as a low hedge. It gets about 3 feet tall, and makes a much denser shrub. Much more winter hardy. Very stinky in the way of roses.