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wenifred

Any recommendations for a small tree (under 18 ft)?

wenifred
19 years ago

We're looking for a deciduous small tree (no more than 18 x 18 at maturity). We would like to put it at the SW corner of our house. I'd like something that doesn't sucker, make messes, get diseases, require a lot of pruning, or break easily (we get some decent winds here). I want it rounded or spreading in shape. I've narrowed my lists to crabapples (but I think they look messy) or a ginnala maple (but it's just a little too big and will hit my house).

Any ideas?

Comments (26)

  • canyon_home
    19 years ago

    Have you considered Hawthorn? Several varieties are about the size you desire.

  • popmama (Colorado, USDA z5)
    19 years ago

    I have a flowering fruitless plum that's beautiful that would suit your needs. It flowers profusely in the spring and smells wonderful, yet bears no fruit. It has dark red foliage throughout the rest of the summer and then turns all sorts of magical shades of red and orange and brown in the fall.

  • animas
    19 years ago

    I like crabapples. They're not all that messy - if the birds don't eat the fruit, there's nothing to pick up. The fruits that remain look great in winter. When they fall in spring, they are hard and non-mushy. I merely sweep them up in the driveway. If they fall on the "hellstrip," I leave 'em to decompose.

    My crab is a Red Jade, a somewhat weeping form... Six years old and about 12 feet high and the same wide. There are a TON of varieties out there, ranging from columnar to oval to spreading. Just make sure you get a named variety from a reputable nursery. The stuff at big box stores are cheap and you get what you pay for. If your air isn't humid in spring, you shouldn't see many diseases that crabs are unfairly beratted for.

    Crabs don't sucker - they have a few sprouts at the base, but that's about it. Mine grows in a sun-baked, nearly unwatered location in hideous "soil" (construction backfill and pavement underlayment). It thrives.

    Another small tree that I like is the "Twisty Baby" Locust. Its branches are contorted like a Harry Lauder's Walking Stick, but in a tree form. It's kind of hard to find, but the spiraling branches and trunk look awesome in winter when the small leaves fall off. The tag on mine says 20 feet at maturity.

    It'd be a bit hesitant to plant hawthorn. The thorned varieties can stick you, but there are thornless varieties. The main issue is rust, a disease that affects the undersides of the leaves. The leaves get orange spots on them. On the undersides of the leaves, you get these bumps with grey "hairs" on them. It's called hawthorn-juniper rust. It's not fatal to the tree, but in order to treat it, you have to spray. And the spray kills bees, which, unfortunately are attracted to the hawthorn flowers. I had a devil of a time with the disease at my old house. Finally I gave up and let the leave look like crap - orange, curling and always "sick-looking." The host for rust is juniper - all kinds of juniper - which is not affected by the disease. Juniper is everywhere here. If you have juniper within a mile or so, stay away from hawthorn and opt for crabapple. The blooms are just as nice.

  • canyon_home
    19 years ago

    Hi animas. That's interesting about Hawthorn rust. My father has a Hawthorn in his yard and never had a problem - even though the neighborhood is juniper heaven. I did a little Googling and it could be that it is a Washington Hawthorn which seems to be less susceptible. As luck would have it, this is the variety I bought and have had no trouble.

    I also found this on Juniper-Hawthorn rust: Apparently crabapples are also susceptible.

    "Juniper-hawthorn rust is a fungal disease that requires a juniper and an alternate host to complete its lifecycle. Alternate hosts are apple, crabapple, hawthorn and mountain ash.


    On a juniper, two-inch ball-shaped galls develop on stems from spores blown in from the alternate host. A gall is an abnormal growth of plant tissues caused by the stimulus of a disease or insect. In the springtime, toothpaste-like spores erupt from these galls. Each mass is called a teliohorn. Spores from teliohorns are blown to an alternate host where they cause leaf spot. These spots are small, bright orange-yellow, and surrounded by a red halo. Spores are produced on the underside of each leaf spot in hair-like projections. Wind carries the disease back to junipers.


    Spores produced on a juniper only infect the alternate host, and spores produced on the alternate host only infect a juniper.

    Although the galls are innocuous to the juniper, repeated infection on the alternate host can cause early defoliation, and smaller fruit. Defoliated trees may suffer winter injury and often fail to grow fruit the following season.


    Cultural controls include removing juniper galls before they produce spores and separating junipers from potential alternate hosts. A few hundred yards separation is generally sufficient for practical Garden purposes. The danger markedly decreases with distance, especially when separated by a windbreak.

    Fungicides such as Bayleton and Daconil 2787 applied to alternate hosts at seven-to-ten day intervals, beginning at bloom, are effective. Chemical control is not necessary on a juniper except for aesthetic purposes.

    For more information, see the following Colorado State Cooperative Extension fact sheet(s).

    Here is a link that might be useful: Juniper-Hawthorn rust

  • animas
    19 years ago

    Wow... I had no idea crabs were hit by rust. We're surrounded by Rocky Mtn junipers and not one tree in the neighborhood shows any sign of galls. It might be an issue of the right plant in the right place. But what's weird is that there are many different kinds of crabapples here. I have no idea which varieties the developer planted, but I had a nursery ID mine as a Red Jade. Thanks for the info!

  • sagebrushred
    19 years ago

    We planted three Crataegus (laevigata or media - listed both ways) 'Crimson Cloud'. I believe that the tags said that they grew to 18' by 18'. They have done extremely well. We bought ours at Cook's on 1600 N. in Orem. This time of year they start discounting everything. Best of luck.

  • wenifred
    Original Author
    19 years ago

    Crataegus is a hawthorne, right? Thanks for all the recommendations. Cook's is actually a hop, skip, and a jump away.

    What are your thoughts on a small green ash?

    Thanks again.

  • canyon_home
    19 years ago

    Not sure if you're talking about the Green Ash I am, but they get a lot bigger than your original post desired.

  • david52 Zone 6
    19 years ago

    I have two green ash that are at least 30' tall, and growing briskly.

  • sagebrushred
    19 years ago

    Yes our Crimson Clouds are Hawthorns. They are thornless and have interesting somewhat contorted semi weeping branches.
    We also have two ash one of which we just planted this year. They are another good tree for this area. Our one is 25' or more and is growing strong. That's why we planted another one. It's been a very carefree tree with a nice pyramidal form. But as David52 and Canyon Home note they can get rather large. If there is a smaller variety that would be a great choice though.

  • wenifred
    Original Author
    19 years ago

    My DH doesn't appreciate weeping trees. Any other varieties of hawthorne that aren't weeping?

    Thanks.

  • wenifred
    Original Author
    19 years ago

    I found two other trees to consider. Does anyone have any experience with a flowering cherry or a chinese fringe tree?

    Thanks.

  • dirtboy58
    19 years ago

    How about Serviceberry! The canadensis variety are gorgeous bloomers in spring and beautiful fall color.

    Pau

  • wenifred
    Original Author
    19 years ago

    Now I'm leaning towards a redbud. I saw one the other day and stopped to find out what it was. The nice gentleman (who is a local "master gardener") indicated that it was an eastern redbud and done well in the wind and full sun.

    What are your experiences with redbuds?

  • sagebrushred
    19 years ago

    I'll have to take some pictures of our Hawthorns. They are still fairly small and a bit awkward looking but that's what I like about them.
    I wouldn't recommend Cercis canadensis if only for the fact that they are a short lived tree.(spprox. 20 years) They are beautiful in the spring when in bloom and you see them in almost everyones yard.(another reason I wouldn't plant one) But that's just me.
    That all said I've got a couple other trees you could consider. Going back to your original idea of a crabapple I would look at Malus 'Prairie Fire' 20' x 20'. There is also Acer tataricum - Tatarium maple that grows to 20' x 20'. Do a google search on these and see what you think.
    Have you considered planting a conifer? I've just planted two that stay fairly small. Pinus longaeva or Bristlecone pine 8 to 20' x 12' approx. and Pinus flexilis 'Vanderwolf's Pyramid' 20' x 15' approx. Just some more food for thought.

  • canyon_home
    19 years ago

    Bristlecone pines are great, but are veeeeery slow growing. The limber pine you mention is becoming very popular although I sure see a lot of them that die shortly after transplant. I've recently planted a variety of mugo pine called "Tannenbaum" it's supposed to grow to about 12 feet, but slowly. It keeps its Christmas tree shape - hence the name. Also to consider is the pinyon pine which is native to our area. I just planted one and it's doing great. I try to keep about 2/3 of the stuff I plant native because they always seem to do the best. Duh.

  • wenifred
    Original Author
    19 years ago

    Thank you for the conifer suggestions. I don't want one in this particular corner of the house (SW) becaues I want to take advantage of the deciduous (sunlight) in the winter. However, I would like to plant a conifer in the opposite side of my yard. I'll use your suggestions to help.

    I'm nervous about hawthornes. I keep hearing about them being twiggy and thorny. I'm still not sure if I want a crabapple. The leaves seem so small -- and with the fruit they kind of have a messy look -- but they are beautiful when in flower. The maple seems like a good idea. I just called Cooks in Orem. The don't carry ginnala maples, but maybe they have a Tatarium. Is an Oklahoma Redbud more long living than an eastern redbud?

    Thanks for all of your ideas and advice!

  • canyon_home
    19 years ago

    I don't recall seeing many "tree form" Amur (ginnala) maples at local nurseries. Most are multistemmed forms that don't grow as high as you are seeking. The Tatarian maple is a nice tree. A friend planted one a couple of summers ago and it's very attractive.

    Here is a link that might be useful: {{gwi:1214817}}

  • wenifred
    Original Author
    19 years ago

    My Sunset Western Garden book says that Tatarian maples and ginnala maples are the same thing. Is that right?

  • bcreighton7
    19 years ago

    No one has suggested a purple smoke tree. They have year round interest, the right size, and are great for your area. The redbud probably won't do well, although I have one, it doesn't over-winter very well. Some in our area do though, and I don't know why. I tried serviceberry, and mine died in my best soil - although this is not complimenting the soil. There are hawthorn hybrids that do well here and don't have the thorns. Crabs have no fall color. Flowering pear would be a better choice. Fringetree prefers moist soil and shade. The purple chain tree is a possibility but it does get a borer. I'm not giving many options am I? If you want a carefree decent look, I come back to the purple smoke tree.

  • tacapollo
    19 years ago

    Eastern Redbuds are beautiful, but they get huge! I have several suggestions.
    Corkscrew Willow-Grows about 25 feet tall (not weeping type). Has very interesting branches and leaves that grow in a spiral shape (plus leaves are small and thin-nothing to worry about in fall!)
    Japanese Maples-There are a number of varieties, but they are smaller and very slow growing. The red leaves are present from Spring to Fall. A very beautiful tree.
    Dogwoods-They are slow growing also, produce flowers in late Spring and bright red berries in the fall that the birds love. Also the leaves turn a pretty red in fall.
    Have you considered small 'bushes' like the lilac or rose-of-sharon. My parents had a rose-of-sharon that was actually a small tree that I used to climb. Lilacs can grow to about 15 to 20 feet and produce those wonderfully scented flowers in early Summer (nothing beats the smell coming in you windows on a summer night.
    I know, you said you didn't really want a weeping tree, but I have a weeping cherry, it is beautiful in late Spring, not large even when full grown and it produces no cherries, so it makes no mess.
    Mimosas are also small, little mess and very pretty (they have fern-like leaves and produce clumps of furry pink flowers all summer long), but they reseed easily and you'd have a clump of them growing in no time (I could supply you with some seeds if you're interested. They reach full height in about 4 or 5 years).

    Good luck!

    Terry

  • Benmd
    18 years ago

    semi-dwarf crabs (pick a modern cultivar) these are tough trees
    Thundercloud plum
    Big tooth maple
    Rocky Mountain Maple
    Lace Bark Maple (Griseum) in the right location; may get a little big
    Pagoda dogwood
    Amur Chokecherry
    Mt Fuji Flowering Cherry
    Japanese Lilac Tree (requires pruning)
    Columnar blue spruce
    If you are an inexperienced gardener, or don't have a shaded, wind protected space, you may not want a Japanese maple
    Redbuds need the right soil type-no clay, acid or neutral.
    Acer Ginnala and Tartarian are similar but are treated as separate plants in several wholesale catalogs and in Derrs Trees and Shrubs for Northern Climates
    Thats a good book for you to look at in your library.

  • eastautumn
    17 years ago

    I would second the serviceberry recommendation. They stay small and have great fall color too. I want to find a place for one in our yard this year.

    I also *love* Washington Hawthorns so just wanted to encourage you to look at a specimen before you make your decision. I planted one in our front yard last year fall. I fell in love with a big one at a garden center when it was in bloom a few years ago, and knew I had to have one of my own someday! Since I saw that first one, I have several times stopped in my tracks at the site of Washington Hawthorns before I got up close and identified them. One was planted in front of a church and it was dark outside, but the tree was lit up. It was in the fall so it had no leaves, but was completely covered in little red berries. The shape of the tree and the berries just took my breath away. I actually made my husband cross the street with me to look at it up close and take its picture, and that's when I saw the thorns and realized what it was. I just saw 3 down in Denver a couple of weeks ago and again thought the shape was stunning and the delicate leaves so pretty that I crossed the street to look at the trees up close. I was so excited to see that they were Washington Hawthorns. Mine doesn't have as beautiful of a shape as some I've seen, but I hope maybe someday it will when it's more established. Even so, I love its graceful leaves and flowers and the berries through the fall and winter (for their beauty and the way they attract birds). As for the thorns, they just add character in my opinion. It's not planted next to a walkway where anyone would accidentally brush against them, so they're no nuisance at all. They are also drought tolerant and don't mind clay soil. All my raving aside, they do get bigger than you want when they are fully mature, so may not be ideal for your situation. Thornless cockspur hawthorn might be an option though. They have a very distinctive horizontal branching structure and are also very hardy trees.

    Good luck with your decision!

    Here is a link that might be useful: Thornless Cockspur Hawthorn

  • emagineer
    17 years ago

    I love redbuds, but have not been able to get them to survive. Am still trying and planted 2 last spring...these don't look like they will make it either. Would love to know how others are growing them, it may be my area.

  • steviewonder
    17 years ago

    Funny to see this thread pop up again, I remember it from a couple of years ago. I wanted to put in a note to anyone considering the twisted/curly/corkscrew willow recommended by tacapollo above. I have one which came with my house. It is at least 30 feet tall and quite UNtidy, quite scraggly looking and drops a lot of branches. That could be because it's been suffering the past couple of years, probably due either to age or drought. It's in an area of the lawn that benefits some from the sprinkler system and its soil has shelter from the sun, so not sure about the drought. But my house was built in 1992 so if it's age that means it only lived 15 years or so. (Nature might let it live longer but I will not- it's coming down soon.)

    I'm a little surprised nobody suggested wenifred try a basswood/linden tree. Nice habit, fragrant flowers, interesting bracts and beautiful shady leaves. Maybe that is what I'll put in where the willow is now. :-)

    steviewonder

  • bunkers
    16 years ago

    my redbud was dead after he first winter in castle rock, co