Hi MT,

BPGreen is our resident "native lawn" expert around here, and if you go the the page of links below, more than half of which are about your questions, you'll find him posting on most of them with information and answering questions. Check out threads # 1, 2, 5, 7, 8, 15, and 16, and more here and there and on the additional pages of threads--probably more good stuff from BP on #44 on page 3, his "Update on my native lawn experiment" thread.

Hopefully BP will be along in person to give you info about whatever you can't find in those threads.

Welcome to RMG,
Skybird

Here is a link that might be useful: RMG search results

Thanks skybird, I've read some of BPGreens' posts and will look at the rest, how do I find the thread numbers you've mentioned? Having reviewed the material yourself; what do you think the best species might be. I'm leaning towards Sodar Streambank wheatgrass. I think buffalo grass would be great, but would probably not last through my dry cold winters.

Just to throw some out-of-the-box into the mix, I ripped out our treelawn turf and replaced with groundcover thyme and veronica under perennials.

During establishment period - mindful of the rain we had earlier this year - I'm watering ~60% less.

Dan

Just click on the "RMG search results" link at the bottom of my post, and then the threads that came up in my search are all numbered on the left side. I'm sure there are other threads there besides the ones I listed that have some good info--but the ones I listed are a good start!

I can't help with a recommendation, tho! I follow all the threads on RMG, but I live on a typically small residential lot with KBG, and have never tried any of the ones discussed on those threads. If I had my druthers, the KBG would go and the whole front yard would become a xeric perennial "bed," but that's not gonna happen in this lifetime--and I'm not at all sure what code enforcement would think of that anyway!

BP doesn't hang out around here a whole lot these days, but he still might see this thread and give you some advice, and in the meantime you'll find a LOT of info from his past posts on those threads. There are a couple other people around here that are interested in alternative lawns too, so maybe one of them will chime in with some advice too.

And, in case you haven't already found it, if you go all the way to the bottom of the main RMG page, right under "Today's Birthdays" you'll find a little search box where you can search just the Rocky Mountain forum for whatever you're looking for. That's how I got the search results I linked above. I just searched for "grass," but you could try searching for buffalo grass or wheatgrass to see what comes up too. I had a pretty good idea what I was looking for when I searched, remembering some of his past posts, so I did a pretty general search, but being more specific in your search might help narrow the results down a little more for you. When he posts, BP usually brings up all the different types of grasses, and compares them as much as he can based on his experience.

It'll take a while, but if you read thru all the threads I listed above, I think you'll have most of your questions answered.

Skybird

Sorry for the delay in replying.

One piece of advice I would give is to try to kill the existing lawn first. I didn't because I thought I could slowly replace the existing lawn with the low maintenance (mostly native) grasses, but it just made it take a lot longer for the natives to take over. In the interim, I needed to water enough to keep the existing lawn alive. And the old grasses are still able to survive well enough (I've only watered once this year) that there are still some areas with a fair amount of KBG/tall fescue.

I bought individual seeds from various sources and planted them, essentially coming up with my own mixture. I have been recommending Cabin Mix from Utah Seeds lately, because they've got a good mix of seeds that should do well in the intermountain west. The grass will probably go dormant in July or August if you don't water at all, but it will stay alive with 15 inches of rain per year. You could probably keep it green with a minimal amount of water (maybe a half inch to an inch a month or so).

I've had the best results using dormant seeding, but I'm not sure whether that would be a good idea if you kill the existing lawn because of the possible problems with erosion. You'd probably be okay if you left the dead grass in place. If you're willing to water a couple of times a day to establish the grass, you could plant in the next few weeks and they'd be well established by next summer.

If you go with the cabin mix, you'll have sheep fescue (MX-86, which is a pretty new variety), roadcrest crested wheatgrass and sodar streambank wheatgrass. The sheep fescue is a bunch grass, but it tillers and will spread a bit if you mow it. Both of the others are rhizomatous, so they should spread to fill in bare spots. All three are relatively fine bladed. They're a nice color, but won't be quite as dark green as a KBG lawn.

I used to be a big fan of western wheatgrass, but I'm less of a fan of it now. It's too difficult to establish, and it's more of a blue than a green, so it stands out a bit.

If you've got spots that are drier and hotter, you might want to try blue grama. It's a bunch grass, but (as with sheep fescue) it will spread a bit via tillering, especially if it's mowed periodically. I've got some in my hellstrips, because they get hot and dry out faster than the rest of the lawn. One drawback to blue grama is that it will go dormant once it gets cold and will stay dormant until around early to mid May or so. If it's mixed in with the other grasses, you may end up with a patchy looking lawn at times, since the other grasses will be green while it's brown and it will thrive in the summer while the others suffer.

Another option is buffalo grass. I looked into it when I first started my quest, but it needs full sun and hot weather. It would be dormant too long for my tastes. There may be varieties that stay green a little longer now, but in my opinion, it's not the best choice for an area that gets as cool as it does where you are.

Of the grasses I discussed, Crested wheatgrass is introduced, but well adapted to our climate. Sheep fescue is native to the US, but there are some varieties that were introduced from other countries. I'm not sure where MX-86 falls. The others are all native.

That 'cabin mix' sounds very interesting indeed! We have a large backyard with typical grass, and have toyed with the idea of doing something different with it. It was interesting this year because of having so much rain in the spring - it greened up early and nicely, and we stayed up with keeping it watered via sprinkler system. But even with all of that, it now has scorched looking spots (the hellstrips, as BP calls them!).

Actually, a hellstrip is the strip between the sidewalk and street. There are nicer words, but I can never remember them. These areas tend to be really tough to get good results in because they heat up fast in the summer and cool off fast in the winter. They often get short shrift from irrigation systems. And they often have more salt, both from teh road and from the sidewalk.

Misty, this is OT, but if you want to give your "scorched spots" a little help, you could try the "Cheap Revive" treatment! Fill a bucket with water, put a couple BIG squeezes of Palmolive original dishwashing soap in it, stir it up till it's completely mixed, and then slosh it over the bad spots! Mix as many buckets as you need to hit all the areas that are having a problem. Then hose over the top to wash it in a little bit--or set a sprinkler there and let it run long enough to wash the soap off of the grass and down into the soil!

Revive is just a surfactant that allows the water to soak into the soil more easily and thoroughly, and the soap does the same thing--MUCH more cheaply! Several years ago I had some REALLY bad spots in my backyard, and several times over a month or so I sloshed the soap water wherever it was the worst, and I've been amazed by how well it worked! Even tho I know where they were, I can't even tell anymore exactly where the worst spots were! I haven't done it at all for a few years now, and I do have a couple other places that look like they need it, but just haven't gotten around to it yet! But if your bad spots are here and there in your actual lawn, try it and it'll probably help you as much as it did me! Don't know how much it would help in a real hellstrip since they have truly hellish conditions!

Nice to see you still check in around here every now and then, BP!

:-)
Skybird

Oh wow, Skybird, what a great tip! I will definitely try that!!

Thanks,
Marj

I'll try to post more often. Life has been getting in the way lately (I'll post more on this at some point).

Any surfactant should work, and often, when you're using something not designed for the lawn, cheaper is better. The reason is that shampoos often include anti-fungal, anti-bacterial, etc. What you want is something simple.

Try the dollar store. Shampoo, especially baby shampoo, is a good choice

Is there a better time of year to do the soap method? If can be done anytime during the spring/summer months, I'm going to make a trip to the dollar store today and give this a try!

Marj

Since you're not "feeding," you can do it anytime the grass is growing, Misty. I'm not gonna have time to mess with it before I leave, but I'm hoping to find time to be out splashing in the soap water later in September, sometime after I get back from vacation.

I use the Palmolive "green" because it's the same thing I use in the kitchen--and as my all-purpose "insecticide," but I'm sure the baby shampoo would do the same thing. Like BP says, just be sure you stick with something that's "just plain soap!" No "grease cutting" or anti-anything additives! I was curious so I just checked, and I have eight bottles of the Palmolive right now, 16-25 ounces, and all of which I got for a dollar somewhere! I pick up a couple bottles whenever I see it for a dollar! It goes pretty fast when I'm out Sloshing it!

The couple times I did it when it was hot and the sun was out, I was sure to wash it "off and in" pretty quickly after dumping it on. Don't really know if it might harm the grass if it was left on in the sun! So if you're gonna do it in the middle of a HOT day, don't skip the hosing it down or watering it in step--just to be sure. [I use the ammonia-ant-killer-system, and since it had never hurt anything before, this year I went out in the middle of a HOT sunny day and poured a bottle full on the ants around the stepping stones under my bird feeders--in the middle of the lawn--and the next day the grass on one side of the (hot) stepping stones was all dying down! Apparently the heat from the concrete stones amplified the effect and knocked out the grass--but the roots were fine and it quickly came back! But it REALLY surprised me since it was totally unexpected based on past experience, so now I just don't take any chances at all, and mostly do stuff like that late in the day!]

If you do it, you should see some improvement this year yet, but I'm guessing you'll be VERY pleasantly surprised when it starts growing again next spring too!

Happy soaping,
Skybird

Is anyone else's lawn going dormant? I'm not sure of the type of grass we have in our back yard, but it is mostly brown now. I don't know whether it is because we aren't caring for it properly, or it just a fact of life of Colorado weather.

As I said in an earlier post, what with the extra rain we had in the spring and keeping up with the sprinkler system watering (we have it set to water every night for 15 minutes), the lawn was looking much better than in the last couple of years. The front lawn is staying looking better than the back, but it is a much smaller area and possibly a different type of grass. The back yard is now mostly brown, so I'm assuming it's technically not dead but rather dormant (still getting used to how things work in Colorado in this area, vs how things were in Calif.!).

I don't know whether there is much that can be done at this point, although I did do Skybird's soap solution trick last week (I used an attachment to the hose, though, rather than bucket due to the size of our yard). If it's futile at this late in the season, I may as well turn off the sprinklers or at least set them to come on less frequently (why spend the money watering it if it's unlikely to green up again this year!).

Advice?