too much N. Nothing else so far.

Dan

I should have specified that it's nitrogen that I'm thinking about.

root crops?

ornamentals?

others?

S'

Spilled some on the lawn once. Had a bare spot for quite a while. The first thing that would finally grow was black medic (according to the folks who like indicator weeds, that means I was low in N in that spot).

BP, I once scattered lawn fertilizer about by hand. The result was that it looked like I had a very large female dog over for a couple of weeks. I had dead grass in about a half-dozen "spots" here and there.

Black medic - indicator weeds? What do you suppose lawn violets mean? I'm just about to break down and use weedkiller on the lawn and not even sure if that would kill the violets.

It's not that I hate lawn violets that much but there seems to be more every year on the shady side of the lawn. Then there's Creeping Charlie. The darn stuff is creeping out from under the deck.

Steve

A few years ago, before I 'saw the light' about growing a lawn, I was obsessed with ridding my turf of some of these course grasses - orchard grass, Johnson grass, what not.

My theory: Dump a cup or so of high nitrogen fertilizer on course grass. This will kill it. As the nitrogen seeps into the surrounding 'good' grass, it stimulates that to come fill in the hole.

Well, all that summer, it looked a bit like what you'd imagine, spots of foot-high grass with a brown spot in the middle.

"Black medic - indicator weeds? What do you suppose lawn violets mean? I'm just about to break down and use weedkiller on the lawn and not even sure if that would kill the violets. "

I'm not a big fan of indicator weeds. If they're to be believed, I have very sandy soil that is heavy clay, and it's high pH, but acidic, too wet and arid, and on and on. In my opinion, the existence of a particular weed indicates that you've got that particular weed and doesn't indicate anything else. So, I think that violets are an indication that you have violets.

As far as getting rid of them goes, I find that it's more effective to convince yourself and others that violets add color and variety to a lawn and are thus desirable additions. I'm not sure what, if anything, can be done to get rid of them. I hit them really hard with Weed-B-Gone before discovering that my wife loves them and has fond memories. I was worried that I killed them, but had no need to be worried. The WBG didn't even discolor the leaves.

How about the garden?

Here's an example: A few years ago I decided that I wanted really, really nice cosmos. They can be fairly large plants normally, my thinking was that they should benefit from a substantial amount of balanced fertilizer in the spring.

Large plants were the result - no question. Huge plants! They grew and grew. The weather began to get colder and colder. I think there may have been 1 flower on every 2 or 3 plants before hard frost put an end to the season . . . An amazing amount of lacy foliage which sort of made a nice backdrop but that's all I got.

Steve

I use mainly manure and meals and have experienced a few problems most self inflicted. I decided to add more than the normal inch per year of manure a few years ago and got a slight salt build up. That is why farmers are so careful about the amount they apply. Wasn't thinking when I did it. Then about 4-5 years ago I started mulching real heavy along with my normal manure and meal additions. I had a test ran last fall and all my levels were 2-3 times higher than recommended. I felt that might be one reason I've seen such large vines and also lost a couple to a root fungus the extension folks say is caused by the high levels. And that was in holes I had prepared before I received the results and had added some more. I will have tests ran this fall before I add anything. Except on the garlic rows and they can take all you can add from my experience. I did burn some plants one year when I worked in too much fresh alfalfa also. That was several years ago. I live and learn as they say. Jay

I could never get in trouble for too much fertilizer because I am too cheap and lazy to bother with it! :) I did, however, find the dogs eating the rose food...they seemed fine and the vet said "don't bother worrying unless someone stops eating, pooping or starts too vomit a lot." Yeah, now the roses are fed behind a little fence!

J.

Getting a little off topic, but Steve, I had the same problem with Cosmos 2 years ago. But in my case, they were planted in a (mostly) perennials bed, in which I rarely do anything with the soil. No additives or anything that year. They grew over 6 foot tall, and mostly only had a few blooms right before frost, then dead. They were a total waste. I chalked that one up to bad seed. (they were actually starts I got from a reputable nursery) I just figure, even a good nursery is going to get bad seed once in a while.

Hmmm, Bruce! See, I've always assumed it was the fertilizer. It was the only time that a cosmos failed. . . . I wonder if there's a hybrid cosmos . . . ? They gotta make seeds to uh, make flowers, to make seeds, to . . . they turned on me?

I've had problems with dahlias having real weak stems - they break when the flower open. Then I thought, maybe it's the regular feeding of Miracle-gro. So, I stopped giving it to them . . . just stopped.

They still get recommended 16-16-16 worked into the soil prior to planting. That's it - big blooms but not such weak stems.

Steve

My understanding about Cosmos is that they want to be mistreated. Fertilize OR water them well, and you will have a big, lovely foliage plant and no blooms.

I've had better luck with the dwarf types of Cosmos, such as the Ladybird series. They get about 18" tall, and are prolific bloomers.

Bonnie

~**cosmic, Bonnie**~ !!

Oh that's lovely. I have more dead spots than anything, mostly because I don't water anything I don't really love.

I think Bonnie loves a lot of these sorts of things, Jnfr.

S'

Oh, I just remembered a story about excessive use of fertilizer.....

My neighbor, in his mid-80's, is one of those souls who will *help* his relatives and neighbors garden. Which is why, now, all of his neighbors, including myself, have fences closely around their gardens so he and his tractor don't show up and plow your vegetable garden sometime when your not at home.

Anywho, he took it upon himself to be the lawn care guy for several of his relatives who live in town, one of them along a popular road that we often use, so we could see what was happening. He spread something like 100 lbs of 28/10/10 fertilizer on a tiny front lawn, and boy, did it grow. Like an inch a day, all summer long, a deep green hairy monster. Every time we drove by, he was out there mowing, with some mountain of clippings in his trailer. I'd bet he mowed that thing every 4 days, and it needed it.

Well, one thing I'm wondering about is the number of split carrots that show up each year.

I haven't used manure anywhere except in the compost for the last few years. Haven't used manure except in the corn for a number of years before that.

I use a Whitney Farms organic fertilizer. It is high in nitrogen but works real well with all the greens I grow . . . maybe it is too high in N for the carrots.

Still, my soil isn't especially fertile. And, nematodes can show their "root-knotting" activity in the carrots - certainly have in years past. There's plenty of forking along with the splitting.

Gets discouraging when it happens each year.

Steve

Huh. I double-dug last year with mushroom compost and steer manure and lowered the pH with a bit of sulfur, and I can't remember if I had a forked carrot this year. Quite a few last year...I thought I might have had a tad too much N from the double-digging, as the tomatillos went hog-wild with the leaves. Not a clue, just babbling.

Dan

LOL! Babble on!

I sure can't contribute much to the conversation since my ENTIRE carrot harvest this year was SIX carrots! But even last year when I had a fairly decent harvest, I've never had any of them split. I have POOR clay soil! It's getting a little bit better each year as I add some of my homegrown compost each year, but it's definitely still POOR clay! I kinda wonder if the splitting doesn't have more to do with the variety than the soil/fertilizer conditions. I don't fertilize the veggies--ever! They just have to deal with what they get--or don't get--in the soil!

33 1/3% of this year's harvest (TWO CARROTS!) did have toes---but, hey, toes taste good too!

Skybird

P.S. Is anybody else having a problem with the nasty little popups that suddenly appear in the MIDDLE of the screen---that my popup blocker doesn't block?

I use FireFox and never get popups here.

Dan

And, here's another possibility for a cause of split carrots: variable soil moisture . . .

I just don't know. The little guys work the best by far but DW is "resistant" to small carrots. I'm discourage by growing so many that don't make it into the kitchen. I also wonder if the "sugary sweet" ones she likes, might be part of the problem. (See, I'm talking myself into blaming her. ;o)

Steve's digits

skybird, I agree totally with Dan Staley. Download and use firefox 3.5.5 with the add-on adblock Plus 1.1.1,and you will be amazed. It is free and as they say "ads were yesterday". Just be careful about other add-ons as some will really slow down the browser.

Here is a link that might be useful: mozilla firefox download

I haven't used IE for years at home. I can't imagine why I would. Once you go away, you'll never go back.

Nonetheless, I think my carrot forking reduction was due to the fact that my soil had the last of the clods beaten down and it was soft and friable (and well-turned meant no pockets of fert). So while the apparent extra N gave me too much leaf on the tomatillos, nothing in the carrots. We'll see, I guess, next year if I'm right...

Dan

Dont get me started on all things computer! There goes the blood pressure again! My computer is getting close to 5 years old, I sit right next to itÂeven when I'm not actually using itÂand when itÂs been turned on for a couple hours it sounds like IÂm sitting next to a WIND TUNNEL! Why am I telling you that? IÂm planning toget a MacÂI am SO fed up with Microsoft!Âbut I havenÂt gotten around to it yet, so for the time beingÂin an attempt to keep this one working a little bit longerÂIÂm not adding anything new or changing anythingÂANYTHING! This one has alzheimers, and it canÂt handle one more thing! IÂve heard good things about firefox before, but IÂm not taking any chances right now. And actually, I use aol, and I reallyreallyreally like the way I can just have a completely blank screen when IÂm not doing anything. I hate IE too! Every now and then I have to use it for something for work (a few things arenÂt compatible with aol), and I have the darndest time finding my way around itÂwith the "tabbed" browsing. IÂm used to just being able to have a whole bunch of windows open, and moving them here, there, and everywhere. Those "tabbed" windows on IE confuse the heck out of me! I can never find anything again once I go to a different window! Down with IE! So thanks for the recommendation, but IÂm not willing to take a chance that I might see my Dell self destruct before my very eyes like my HP did the last time I turned it on!
000000001111111000101110111110000000111101010011101000111000!!!

Actually, the aol popup blocker is amazingly effective, and I can block animated media too. I HATE animated ANYTHING! The ONLY site I have a problem with is GW, and for some reason, that obnoxious little popup they currently have isnÂt blocked! IÂve had problems with GW ever since iV took over the site, and I guess IÂll just have to deal with it for now. Hopefully once I get around to getting the Mac, the problem will be solved.

Rant complete!

Digit, if your DW is "resistant" to little carrots, how about growing some BIG carrots for her. IÂve talked about this one many times around hereÂand IÂll do it again. You really should try Royal Chantenay! ItÂs short and stubby, and deliciousÂno matter how big it gets. ItÂs the one I started growing because my brother in Illinois has been growing it for years, and I could never believe how huge they gotÂand how sweet they were. And IÂve never, ever had one splitÂand they almost never "grow toes!" Maybe IÂll have more trouble with that nematode stuff you guys talk about after IÂve been growing things in the same place for more yearsÂsince thatÂs the only "place" if have to grow them in, but so far itÂs not much of a problem. But I think I agree with you, Dan. I expect that the better my soil gets, the less forking/fewer toes IÂll have. Only time will prove that theory right or wrong!

Royal Chantenay pelleted seed

For the last couple years Royal Chantenay is the only one IÂve grown, so I decided to "branch out" this year and I tried Nantindo. I wasnÂt expecting a whole lot of difference in the flavor, but the Nantindo really wasnÂt sweet at all compared to the RC. I might try a different variety next yearÂjust for varietyÂbut I wonÂt be wasting space on Nantindo again.

Wishing she got more carrotsÂwith or without toesÂthis year,
Skybird

If you get a new Mac with one of those fabulous screens, I'm going to be really jealous. (I'm using a 7 year old eMac)

What fabulous screen? I'm just getting it to get away from the impossible MS patchwork quilt, and the constant threat of a virus---and ENDLESS security updates --- and I really, really like the fact that I won't have to have a big old CPU sitting under my table anymore---making wind tunnel NOISE!

What fabulous screen?

Skybird

Skybird, about a month ago, Apple came out with new iMacs, 21.5 and 27" LED backlit screens, which have gotten, as far as I've read, universal rave reviews.

Our family owns 6 Apple Computers, what with kids in college and my wife's job, two desk tops and 4 lap tops.

Couple-three thoughts: I dunno if there is an Apple Store in the north Metro area, but there's one at the Cherry Creek Mall - They're very helpful, no-pressure kind of places, with very knowledgeable folks. Certainly worth checking out.

2ndly, on the Apple Store web site, if you kick around a bit, you'll find their "refurbished' computers, which can be several hundred less - thats what we usually buy, they come with a full warranty, etc, and if you aren't in a hurry, you can find some great deals.

And finally, while they may seem expensive, they come with an awful lot of great programs in iLife, which gets you the photos, movies, music, etc. and the cost of something like iWorks, the equivalent of MS Office, is 79 bucks. Of course, if you want to get into serious heavy lifting of editing movies etc, programs get expensive.

After a career spent messing with Microsoft and spending thousands of dollars trying to keep up on their programs...... Never again.

Wow. David! Thats way cool. I dont need a 27" screen, but having a screen that you dont need to be RIGHT in front of to be able to see it will be SO nice! Prepare to be jealous! But, actually, its not gonna happen for a few weeks probably. I seem to be in the midst of another one of my who-but-me type catastrophes right now. When I got back from my last trip on the 26th, something seemed to be going "wrong" with my face! I thought there was a possibility I could be having a stroke or a TIA and started sorta freaking out, so I went to the ER and it turned out I had something called Bells Palsy! By the next day the left side of my face was totally paralyzed! For a couple weeks I was preparing to live the rest of my life as a recluse! But its getting better enough by now that I even look like a human being again! Glad I wont have to be a recluse! Anyway, Im still having some problems, and not quite prepared to go to Apple for a one-on-one for the show and tell before I buy it. But when I doits one with that cool new screen for sure! I know theyre expensive, but it doesnt make any sense to keep buying new ones (the Dell wasnt cheap!) and then throwing them out in 4 or 5 years! And Im anxious to check out their photo stuff, but I dont know for sure if Ill switch to that. Ill definitely try it, but I like Picasa pretty well, and even bought more storage for their web albums so I could download all my (700+) vacation pics from this year! (Yeah! I went back to that Lions, and Tigers, and Bears place again this year!)

I also plan to buy the one to one in-store help, and plan to make full use of the Genius Bar when I need it. After trying to get help with this one, and the first HP one, and getting the message when you try to call: Well be glad to help you! Thatll be $1487.59 for the first five minutes please! It will be SO nice to walk in and say: What do I do now? when I cant figure something out or have a problem! And I can hardly wait! Oh! And there IS an Apple store up herejust down 120th from me! VERY convenient!

Can you tell me if they have a word processing program that comes with it or can be bought separately? The equivalent of Word? Is that what the iWorks is? I have OpenOffice (and Word) in this computer, and compared to Word, I really dont like itbut it IS free!

I WILL be getting one! Drool on!

Digit, sorry to hijack your thread! Lets see! Could you possibly recommend the right kind of fertilizer that might help keep the computer I have now going for a little bit longer??? Ya think maybe some nitrogen? It sure needs SOMETHING! How about some water? A little compost? Hmmm! Maybe I should just add it directly to the compost pile!!!

Skybird

Skybird,
I will predict you will love your Mac. I switched two years ago and wish I had done it sooner. I didn't realize it was all in the monitor and when it arrive I asked the Fed Ex man where the other box was. My nephew is an award winning IT tech so that helped with my old Dell but got tired of getting kidked off sites while i was doing something by IE. He recommends using Firefox and installed it on mine when he set it up. On all IE's he uses AVG anti virus and it's free. He feels it is the best. I'm not sure what size my screen is but I really like it. I have several friends who have changed since I have and everyone of them like it better than IE. Jay

No, it's too late, Skybird.

I'm already on to free amino nitrogen at 0.15% for making beer and mead . . .

hic

Steve

What say you ship me a gallon of that beer! Maybe it'll help my computer---or make me forget it has a problem!

;-)
Skybird

Apple's word processing is called "Pages" and comes with the iWorks deal - I don't think you can get it separately. So a bit extra expense.

But I think the benefit of getting a registered copy would be worth while, because they have free upgrades fairly often.

"What say you ship me a gallon of that beer!"

From what I understand, unless you go through all kinds of paperwork and pay big fees, you can't ship beer, especially across state lines. I've read on brewing forums that shipping "live yeast samples" is allowable (most home brews are carbonated in the bottle and have live yeast in the finished product).

I'm trying to find a recipe for "marrying" beer and wine by using the idea behind a type of mead, pyment.

Doesn't sound too good, eh? Well, the best beer I've made and the most fool-proof beer recipes I've followed have used raisins. You know, dried grapes.

I never made more than a 6 gallon batch at a time and it's been a half-dozen years since I've made any.

. . . just exploring some ideas

Did I ever get in trouble trying some wild recipe? Yeah.

S'