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digit_gw

David, what did you mean by:

digit
12 years ago

". . . I'm trying these days to get away from as much hybrid seed as I can, as the quality does seem to be going down."

You said that on the Yummy pepper thread.

I'm wondering if my mystery potato-leaf seedling that showed up in the Early Girls starts and an odd-ball melon that was probably from the Passport Galia seed -- may lend added credibility to your thinking.

Steve

Anyone else may jump in at any time.

Comments (7)

  • david52 Zone 6
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    As you probably know, seed companies have been consolidating all around the world, and as with just about everything else, vegetable hybrid production has moved to China. And then, with just about everything else, within China this production is 'farmed out' to lots of small producers, where quality control can be an issue.

    Then there is a whole big mess, as with just about everything else, within the vegetable seed imports, where little of the stuff is tested for anything, including purity, contamination, germination, etc, due to the sheer volume, and then stuff that would be rejected by the Chinese quality control people - let alone the USDA, finds a way around all this with falsified papers, shipped through other countries, and so on. At the link is an article about Chinese honey - I think this gives an idea of what is going on.

    Anyway, very few American seed companies produce their own hybrid garden vegetable seed any more, and the quality, even just the correct labeling, is getting ridiculous. This summer, with my Gypsy peppers I had several distinct, different pepper shapes - everything from a golf-ball sized useless thing to something 8" long, red that looked like a chili. There were two plants that were just wrong - healthy things, dark green, smaller foliage, wouldn't produce a flower - I don't know what that was.

    I've had mis-labeled/who knows what tomato seed for supposed Better Boy last summer. I've had hybrid spinach that wouldn't germinate - we're talking the bulk packages, and several attempts. Side by side with an OP spinach that did just fine. This year as well, the hybrid squash 'Confection' from Johnny's didn't produce true - thats the first time for that - but just one plant out of a dozen or so. Those are my experiences, but talking to neighbors, this is a growing problem - not so much confined to hybrids, but mis-labeling and stuff that isn't even close. Upset people who wasted a season.

    So there's that. Then there's the whole politics of this - companies patenting your food - and all the marketing aspects of removing old varieties from the market and substituting new 'improved' ones - seems that increasingly, with the big companies every thing in the catalog is a hybrid - you have to buy from them. Then we have so much of the hybridization going on to 'design' some bullet proof vegetable that can be grown, harvested, processed, and shipped with the industrial ag customer in mind, not so much the consumer and what they taste like.

    Then there is the price of the seed. Yikes.

    Anyway, I still need to find an OP winter squash that comes close to Cha Cha and Confection. There is Maria di Chiooga (sp) but that thing is a monster.

    I still need to identify an OP sweet pepper that is thick-walled and produces well.

    I dunno if such a thing exists anymore, but a mild storage onion along the lines of Candy

    And then there is Sun Gold cherry tomato. I know some people were working on a de-hybridized version, but I dunno where to go for that.

    Look at the variety and fun people are having with OP tomatoes - and think that there is something like that scale with most OP vegetables. You can tell who finished cleaning up the garden yesterday, and whose thoughts are already turning to spring..... :-)

    Here is a link that might be useful: Chinese honey smuggling

  • digit
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I didn't order anything like this melon. It has green flesh like the Passport - but, those are long gone. This came so late that it probably wouldn't make it before frost some years. Only 1 fruit ripened (vine had 2) and it isn't very good.

    Maybe we are getting the mother strain, at times. If the non-hybridized fruit of the plant is collected by errant workers and the seed goes in with the hybrids, it would be an easy contamination.

    The 2 sweet onions that have been in my garden for the last 4 or 5 years, Walla Walla & Utah, are both open-pollinated. Darn few others are!

    Red Torpedo may be worth a try for you as a keeper. Borettana Cippolini, based on the 1 time I had it, I wouldn't bother with. The darn things are hot, hot, hot!

    Your Picador shallots are doing fine. I've sown seed 2 years running. I'd hate to be without shallots. They have a unique flavor and are very, very good keepers. I'd like to know what other gardeners think of shallots.

    Burgess Buttercup (C. maxima, like kabocha) has been in my garden more years than I can remember - an awfully long time. About the only things that can disappoint me with them is that there may be a year now and then when they fail to reach full maturity. And, that large "button" is fairly much wasted space in the fruit.

    Is Red Kuri a kabocha? (Cha Cha came thru for me again this year.)

    Steve

  • david52 Zone 6
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thanks, Steve. I need to research those onions - I'm 'latitude challenged' when it comes to day length issues.

    Trying to find out if red kuri is a kabocha, stumbled on this - "When kabocha is just harvested, it is still growing. Therefore, unlike other vegetables and fruits, freshness is not as important. It should be fully matured first, in order to become flavorful. First, kabocha is ripened in a warm place (77 F) for 13 days, during which some of the starch converts to sugar content. Then it is transferred to a cool place (50 F) and stored for about a month in order to increase its carbohydrate content. In this way the just-harvested, dry, bland-tasting kabocha is transformed into smooth, sweet kabocha. Fully ripened, succulent kabocha will have reddish-yellow flesh and a hard skin with a dry, corky stem. It reaches the peak of ripeness about 1.5 - 3 months after it is harvested.

    Which is what I do, except for the 50 F part. I should try that. LInk to wiki gives the names of some of the other Japanese squashes - might be interesting to try. Link also says that SW Colorado grows and exports these to Japan. Who knew?

    Here is a link that might be useful: link

  • xaroline
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Now there is a new wrinkle coming at us.
    Some of the big plant and seed producers are coming out with "Super Nutrient" veges!
    Of course nutrient content is dependent on growing conditions, but there are some tomatoe cultivars which are supposedly of higher Vitamin content.
    We need to get seeds from small local seedsmen in order to get OP kinds.
    Caroline

  • digit
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I've done a little more reading on Italian red onions. It all fits with my trust in a Mediterranean Diet and dismay with consolidation in the modern food industry but, that wasn't the primary reason for the reading. Lydia on Lidia's Italy was talking about Calabria in southern Italy and the onions grown there.

    You should know that Calabria and most all of Italy is above 38 degrees north latitude. David, you are about 37 degrees north.

    The sweet red onions of Tropea (Cipolle di Tropea) are the torpedo type but Fedco says they are not so good for storage. However, Fedco also carries Rossa di Milano which they claim has good keeping qualities. Link below - I hope. Using Fedco's online catalog is sometimes problematic.

    Seeds of Italy (click) also carries several red onions but they sell the seed in small packets.

    Steve

    Here is a link that might be useful: Fedco's onions

  • david52 Zone 6
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thanks, Steve. I got some of the torpedo type seed from Sandhill Preservation last year, but didn't plant them. My guess is the best way to proceed is to try several different varieties and see which ones work at this latitude.

    I wish I knew more about onions/latitude. At the allium forum on GW, there isn't a whole lot of that sort of technical knowledge.

  • colokid
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I will add my 2 cents that is a little off topic but still revilent. How do you know what you get when you buy? I am not a gardener, just tomatoes, like 30 verities last year and 16 this year. I buy a seed to see if it meets my needs and it really shake me up when it is not what the packet says. I wonder how many time they were wrongly listed that I did not catch. I am certain that I had two wrong out of 12 from a well known supplier that has "garden" as the second part of his name. I think that I am over pixxed at them because I was trying to grow a winter tomato in the house (still am) and sophie"s choice grew 6 foot tall and hit the ceiling. It's supposed to be det and only 2 foot tall. I wasted two years on that trial--thought it might have been my fault, then found an other mistake from him.
    So my point is that if you save your own OP seed, you have what you want, not gosh only knows, packed and labeled by a non English speaking person.