(Sorry I don’t have time to activate the links)

Burpee - good all around seed company

http://www.burpee.com/home.do

Pinetree - one of the cheapest - small packets, but always plenty for me - easy to deal with

http://www.superseeds.com/

Harris - pelleted carrot and lettuce seed - good selection - good company to deal with

http://gardeners.harrisseeds.com/

Park - pretty expensive, but their catalog has a lot of good information in the index section - and they carry seed for some unusual things you don’t find most places

http://www.parkseed.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/StoreCatalogDisplay?catalogId=10066&storeId=10101&langId=-1&mainPage=page1

High Country Gardens - good for plants that are suitable for our region (Timberline here in Denver carries some of their plants)

http://www.highcountrygardens.com/

Western Native Seed - just flowers, but another good one for our area

http://www.westernnativeseed.com/wa-b.html

Rocky Mountain Rare Plants - flowers again, but good for alpine plants

http://www.rmrp.com/

Seeds of Change - if you’re into organics, this is the one for you

http://www.seedsofchange.com/default.asp

Prairie Nursery - you probably don’t want to buy from them since the smallest pack they sell is 1/8th ounce, but there’s some really great reference material in their catalog

http://www.prairienursery.com/

Everything has now frozen and this year is "over,"—which equals "the bell ringing," so it is perfectly normal for you to be salivating for next year! You have a lot of company!

Skybird

For better or worse, I ordered from the farm seed companies of Holmes, Jordan and, for the 1st time, Osborne Seed. Their smallest packets aren't very small.

Besides Dixondale Farms for a few onions and Richters for some herb seed, I also ordered from the aforementioned Burpee, Park, Harris, and quite a few things as usual from Stokes.

Years ago, I was a good Jung Seed customer and still am but I've spread out to their other subsidiaries as well, Totally Tomatoes and Horticultural Products.

Johnny's has been the major source for seed for about 5 years.

Territorial has some good offerings and I've ordered from Fedco the last 2 years.

I grow a fair amount of Asian veggies and ordered from Kitazawa and Evergreen. I also buy Asian vegetable seed from Stokes, Johnny's, and Fedco.

You should know that Jung's now owns Shumway and the Vermont Bean Seed Company but I haven't ordered from them in recent years and don't really appreciate all this consolidation. I'd miss having the Thompson Morgan catalog if I didn't order from them once in awhile but I missed in 2007.

Now, having done all that cutting and pasting I'm going along with Skybird that if you can find it, you may be better off with Pinetree for a decent selection of small packets at a low cost. And, I'd love to order something from Seeds from Italy!! My favorite - I guess would be Johnny's but how would I occupy myself (and spend all my money) without all the rest!

S's digits

I have never been accused of using restraint when it comes to ordering seeds.

As you can see from my seed sources, Azura, I’m conservative when it comes to staying with the tried & true. And, no that doesn’t mean just heirlooms – have you ever thought that there just may be an inherent reason or two why some of those varieties fell into disfavor? Oh course, I love some of them dearly and I am certain there are more out there that would very much please me that I haven’t tried yet but hope to. Like many gardeners, I am grounded in the past while dreaming of the way forward.

Seed sources – George Ball’s family, who now run Burpee, has been at the top of the heap for many, many years. Jung’s may be 100 years old this year but I remember Shumway’s when it was located in Rockford, Illinois. And, that catalog hasn’t changed all that much since those days.

I’m happy to see the growth of some of the smaller and newer seed companies. They are going to serve an incredibly important service going forward. Just one that I see which amazes me with their web presence, selection, and the favorable things I read about them is Victory Seed. They are appealing to the romantic heart of the vegetable gardener with open-pollinated and heirloom varieties. I especially like their motto, "Preserving the future, one seed at a time." Gives one pause for thought.

digitS’

Of course, what you really need for a small garden is a friend or friends who will share seed packets rather than more places to order from.

Doesn't stop us from checking out all the catalogs, though, does it?

Catherne

Specialty Perennials at

http://www.hardyplants.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc

is 20% off until the first of '08.

Seedman is having a Thanksgiving weekend sale, 50% all seeds until Monday at 6:00pm.

http://www.seedman.com/

Happy shopping,
Bonnie

Henry Brink

In a look for seed sources yesterday I used a couple lists:

University of Florida
Oregon State University
I was looking for seed for a Japanese carrot and a Chinese melon so this might not be the same as a search for a perennial ornamental.

U of F was last updated February 23, 2007. OSU was last revised June 22, 2005. I was a little dismayed to learn how many of the links are dead and some of the google searches turned up that the seed company had been purchased by Seminis (Monsanto) or somebody.

Some of these takeovers are simply for the purpose of liquidating the assets and closing down the competition. Even when a catalog continues to be printed, it often means little since the product line does not vary from the parent company. I've talked about watching Shumway move from Illinois to South Carolina, buy Vermont Bean Seed, etc. and then get swallowed itself by Jung. So far, the Shumway family of catalogs has continued to offer different products from Jung - but that may not continue.

And, even while these 100 year old companies are undergoing these kinds of changes - new internet "somethings" are popping-up. Some offer seeds from a different company, packaging and all – Ferry-Morris for example. I don't know how much difference there is in bulk buying from a wholesaler with repackaging and buying the packets and reselling. I can buy Ferry Morris at the hardware store. These outfits exist on a shoestring.

It takes some continuing effort to keep some kind of track of the online sources. It could probably be a full-time job. The "WayBack Machine" can help you out a little here. Here's the results of a seed company I've been looking at with great interest - Harvest Moon Farms & Seed Company. They really have a good selection of not only Felco Pruners but European seeds! I may even order from them one of these first years.

You can use the Garden Watchdog. It is sometimes skewed by just having a few people inputting opinions and the search is a bit clunky (gotta get just the right name - go short rather than long).

And yes Catherine, the best case scenario is having a garden buddy who has similar interests and likes to share information and resources. That is why I’m here . . .

digitS'

Bonnie

I went to their veggie seed list - 30+ companies. Of those, I only did not recognize Meredith Direct Response Marketing and MasterGardening.com.

Let's get the 1st one out of the way first - that's BH&G itself! Meredith Magazines . . . cute, they're the competition.

MasterGardening.com was an interesting exercise. Appears like they only have a little "bulk" seed of the most common varieties. Maybe just wanted to be included as a "comprehensive" source. I followed my own advice and looked in the WayBackMachine and found that their home page has been around sine 1999 with numerous updates.

Then I clunked my way thru GardenWatchDog . . . Not one rating for MasterGardening.com - the last 6 months or otherwise!!! But, I found that it was a part of Trident which includes the subsidiaries of Deerbusters, ElectricFenceCompany.com, and GardeningBulbs.com. Deerbusters had no current ratings at all but a 100% score.GardeningBulbs.com was a different story.

With 4 positives and 2 negatives, I read thru all including the Company representative's comment. I don't buy much of this. For one thing, MasterGardening.com has been around for 8 years. I can't believe that not one of those chatty gardeners has ordered anything from that company over its entire history! I have no idea about the negatives on GardeningBulbs.com but I'm just as DISINCLINED to believe the company rep as the gardeners.

Here's my supposition: the "scoop" on MasterGardening has been expunged, erased, eliminated . . . uh, corrected. What was said about GardeningBulbs was left to stand. Yes, I'm a person of a suspicious nature when it comes to businesses. But, that is across the board.

Other that this one, the 30+ companies are mostly old-line outfits and probably worthy of your trust. Many, I've ordered from! (The other half of my personality . . . I'll trust until there's some little red flag waving on the horizon. But, the horizon is 360°. :o)

digitS'
Ah, but a man's reach should exceed his grasp, or what's heaven for? Robert Browning

........but they’re 50% off!

Skybird

Does this mean, Dianthusman, that T & M's Crimsonia dianthus would have "spotty" germination?

digitS'

Anyway here's the link.

Bonnie

As far as ownership, Burpee owns The Cook's Garden according to the Garden WatchDog. Which, I believe means the Ball family owns it. Mr. Ball is a director of Seminis Inc. which bought at least part of the Ball seed empire. Seminis was purchased by Monsanto in 2005. So, does Monsanto own Burpee and The Cook's Garden? I don't know . . .

digitS'

Bonnie

I'm on topic, I'm on topic! . . . you can use the link below to check out New England Seed! They've got a very impressive Italian veggie seed collection.

digitS'

New Dimension
AgroHaitai

digitS'

Terry informed me, "I can assure you that no feedback for this company has been expunged from the Garden Watchdog . . ." That makes me both chagrin and more confident. Chagrin that I wondered aloud that a service I'd never heard anything but good about might have been successfully pressured. Confident that I can turn to the WatchDog for some guidance in the risky business of spending money online.

With that in mind and with 5 positive WD feedback comments (& no negatives), here's "Main Street Seed" a company I knew nothing about until a few minutes ago.

digitSteve

Bonnie

About the only problem Stokes has is that they are so low-key. So, there's little hype. And, with a fairly unique selection, one doesn't get all excited from the hyperbole in another catalog and then find that Stokes has it at a lower price and in better quantity. And, remember we're talking seed here and not jazzy, high-priced perennials.

Ya gotta read between the lines . . . I wonder if Vesey's, another long-time Canadian seed company has the same conservative paper catalog. The online text reads about the same, "versatile, recommended, excellent color . . . just the facts, ma'am."

digitS'
Nourish beginnings, let us nourish beginnings. Not all things are blest, but the seeds of all things are blest. The blessing is in the seed. Muriel Rukeyser

Also, the type was very tiny, which I struggle with now. Especially with a not very bright bedside lamp.

Yesterday, I placed a second order with Pinetree. There were some things in the catalog that I didn't see when I shopped online the first time, because they were in odd places. I love their prices, but not so crazy about the way their online catalog is arranged.

I also decided to take a chance and placed a small order with Specialty Perennials (Hardyplants.com), because they had some things that I just haven't been able to find anywhere else.

Then there are my tentative lists for Swallowtail and Stokes, but they aren't things that I just "have" to have, so those things will have to wait until I have finished my Christmas shopping for my family.

My goal is to have all my seed shopping done before the first of the year, because my theory is that all of the companies will be very busy then, and mistakes and delays will be much more likely in January thru March.

Happy shopping,
Bonnie

Nichols? Aren't they rather "Canadian" themselves? As a Nichols' customer years ago, I must have been distracted and wandered off.

laissez-faire, laid-back, relaxed, disinterested digitS'

And I have to correct myself. I pulled out the catalog, and there are photos for many of the items. But the catlog is printed on newsprint, which I guess in my mind was remembered as "not a glossy catalog, so no pictures". Looking at it again... it really is a fun catalog to go through. You should get it again Steve.

They offer "sample" packets of herbs which are perfect for the home gardener. And at only .35 who can resist trying something different. I have Sesame Seeds coming up in my laundry room/starting room right now.

Bilie

I ordered on Nov. 24, and received the order on Nov. 28, so they were definitely very fast with their shipping. The seed is packed in small zipper baggies with self adhesive labels with basic planting directions, but no information about the plant height, color, etc. The packets all contained at least as many seeds as they said, and most had more than they advertised. For 50% off, I feel I got a pretty good deal—most of the packs were just over a dollar, however, because of the small number of seeds in each packet (25 or less seeds for most of them), I don’t think it would have been a very good deal for full price. They don’t really have a very wide variety of things, and, like I said above at Nov. 24, their site can be pretty hard to navigate.

Overall I’m glad I placed this order, but probably won’t use them again.

Skybird

d'S'

Billie

However, I got the Baker Creek catalog last week, which has, I dunno, 5 pages of eggplant and 4 pages of melons. And a bunch of cool tomatoes.

I won't bite. Nope, I won't spend a small fortune on seeds this year. You just watch, I'll resist. It'll be different this time, honest.

;-)
Skybird

Those photo's must be the most gorgeous in the trade. They have to go after those tomatoes, peppers, eggplants with a tack rag. Once they’re buffed to a fine shine and photographed, the ability to resist just melts away! I'm fairly sure these same pictures are online so don't go there if you have a weak constitution.

I've never ordered from TGS even tho' they send the catalog. And, I don't get to see the Baker Creek offerings except online.

A couple things I want to point out about that Thessaloniki tomato. Baker Creek claims it is a 60 to 80 days variety but TGS has it as a 75 to 80 day. Marianna's Heirlooms claims it's only 66 days! Tomatofest & Reimers say it is an 80 day. Totally Tomatoes has it at 68 days. It's 65 to 70 days at Seeds of Change and 75 to 80 days at Heirloom Seeds. Diane's Seeds has it at 75 days but claims it is only a 6 ounce tomato. What?

I've saved just a little seed and will grow 1 or 2 plants from that but I'm going to order more seed from one of these outfits that claims it is less than 70 days and hope for an earlier strain.

Oh, and Golden Harvest Organic's 2008 seed offering is now online!

d'S'

In the mail this week was Jung's, Baker's Creek, White Flower Farm (very expensive, but gorgeous photos and lots of good information), Seeds of Change, Territorial, and two that I didn't even order - Shumway's and Millier Nurseries. Anyone no about those last two? The Shumway catalog says they have been in business for 138 years, and the catalog has an old fashioned feel to it, but since I didn't see it listed anywhere in this thread, I'm wondering what their reputation is. The Miller Nurseries catalog seems to focus primarily on fruit trees and shrubs, though they do offer a few perennials.

Bonnie

This is one of those previously independent seed companies that was being bought up by Parks / Jungs / Totally Tomato / Vermont Bean and whatever else those guys now own, and they were consolidating their seed distribution system, and it hadn't gone well, the year I placed my order.

I threw it in the dumpster on the way back into the house, along with 8 lbs of after Christmas Fabulous Sale catalogs. I also got Territorial.

Which reminds me, if any of you are ordering from Territorial, I'd highly recommend their "Swiss Sunset Basil" for our climate. The plants hold up the entire summer season, respond well to pruning and flower stalk removal and do so even if you forget to do it, like, last week when you should have, and have an excellent basil flavor. I grow mine in boxes on the west, hot side of the house. They love it.

Today I received my Select Seeds catalog, and another one I am not familiar with called Stark Bro's. I looked them up on the Garden Watchdog, and it seemed to get mixed reviews. I couldn't find a review on them at our Rate & Review Vendors forum. Anyone have experience with them?

Bonnie

Just out of curiosity, I took a look at the GW lists for nurseries. I kind of thought that people would be a little rougher on the nurseries than the outfits that mostly sell seeds. When someone gets a messed-up plant in the mail that's cost an arm & a leg - one might expect them to contact the GW and complain.

On the other hand, I can remember having the most high-tech packaging of seed and thinking it just couldn't have been the company's fault that I got cruddy germination, and buying their seed again and again . . . the definition of insanity, right?

Well, I think my supposition may be correct. I looked at 4 low-cost nurseries and they ranged from 12% to 27%. That's yucky!

Then I checked Stark Brothers Nurseries and it pulls an 84%! In the scheme of things, that might be really quite high.

d'S'

:-)

Well, they certainly have a nice selection of apple trees, and I looked around locally last year, and couldn't find anything interesting. My son really wants homegrown apples, and you know that I'd grow just about anything that would get my kids to eat more vegetables and fruits. I may take a chance on them, unless you know of a better place to order fruit trees.

Bonnie

I did get the new Seeds of Change the other day - lots of pretties, but I have to remember to limit myself.

If I recall, shipping is the same for 1 to 5 trees.

So Digit, it's safe to post! :)

I think there may be less "new" stuff in all of the catalogs this year . . . probably has something to do with less square feet given over to gardens as a continuing trend.

In Richters, I'm distracted by the little red tea cups and saucers beside the plant names. Let's see there's agastache, & alfalfa, & ambrosia, & angelica . . .

"Could I get another cup of tea, please?!!?" It'd sure hit the spot with this here slice of German chocolate cake left over from New Years Day.

d'S'

I also got a second Territorial catalog. Not sure how that happened!

BTW, I still have not received my order from Specialty Perennials, which I placed on 11/29. Two emails have been sent with no response. I called them a few days ago, and an older gentleman answered the phone, "Hello"? When I gave him my order number, he said, "That series should be going out momentarily."??? What does that mean? When I asked why it hadn't gone out yet, he said that the end of the year is when they receive their new seeds and that everything has to be germination tested. That's fine, but shouldn't they notify the customers when there is a delay? I'm glad it was only a $12 order!!!

Bonnie

If you don't feel like building a coldframe this year, just use your recycleables and do some Winter Sowing. Each container is like a little mini greenhouse. See the link below for more info.

Okay, I'll stop trying to win over converts ... maybe ... nah.

Bonnie

Digit,
I might order my tomatoes from the Golden Harvest site, they have a lot of early ones to choose from. I'm not sure which I'll choose, but these all seems rather quick:

Bloody Butcher: 55-60 days, semi-determinate, 3-5 oz

Glacier Tomato: 50 days, semi-indeterminate

Ida Gold: 55 days, small yellow-orange, determinate

Moskvich: 60 days, Russian heirloom, indeterminate

Pop-In: 60-65 days, small, red, teardrop shape, indeterminate.

Siberia: 45-55 days, 3-5", standard red colored tomato, determinate

Siletz: 55-60 days, medium red slicer, determinate.

Silvery Fir Tree: 55-60 days, 2 to 3 1/2" deep orange to red fruits, slightly flat, oblate shape, determinate

Stupice: 60 days, red, round, small 2-2 1/2" fruits, indeterminate

Snow White Cherry: 68 days, pale yellow cherry tomato, indeterminate

Back to my catalogs to solve my apple tree dilemma : )

Bonnie

Bonnie