Amy, I could have looked at this sooner but not knowing what Jostaberries are . . . Then I looked thru my Shumway catalog - and the same information, you've provide here: "a cross between gooseberries & black currants."

I'm from a time when gooseberries & black currants were considered a real "no-no." I remember seeing the plants at an old farmstead not far from where I lived and thinking that they are never going to get rid of all these . . . so I ate some!

Of course, you can get currants at the supermarket and I've had gooseberry pie over on the coast.

Here was the problem: these berry plants are hosts of white pine blister rust. Up here in northern Idaho, we have very few of these trees left because of blister rust (and no doubt, because they were such a valuable lumber tree).

"At one time, efforts were even made to eradicate all domestic and native gooseberries and currants in the country. Although these eradication efforts failed, the development of new selections of blister rust resistant white pine, currants, and gooseberries has reduced the problems associated with the disease, and restrictions on Ribes cultivation are being relaxed. There are currently no restrictions on growing currants or gooseberries in Idaho." UofIdaho

Still, I think you should look around your neighborhood and see if there are any stands of White Pine nearby. You may also want to ask the nursery about the resistance of Jostaberries to blister rust.

digitS'

Steve - How far away should pines be? I can plant whatever I want, I think the nearest White Pine to me is about 50 miles, but if I guess correctly, Amy is only about 2 miles from a really big pine grove. And that grove is already in trouble, so I really am not sure that her two or three jostaberries would make a huge difference in the order of things.

The grove I am talking about already has big areas that are dying for whatever reason and the property owners are not clearing the dead/dying/infected pines. Most are just leaving them where they are and will file an insurance claim when/if the trees fall and land on cars, houses or whatever, so sad.

I am responding because I noticed Amy does not seem to be on at the moment and I thought it was useful information. I have 1 gooseberry that I was given by a friend and I plan to get him a friend or two sometime soon. The only pines I have are Australian which are not affected by blister rust or pine beetles (to my knowledge), so I should be safe.

Billie

Billie, here's the "dope" from that Idaho site: "Avoid problems with white pine blister rust by planting resistant varieties. If you live within one mile of native or ornamental five-needled pines, plant only varieties known to be resistant to blister rust."

Then you follow the link on that page to this: "The white or five-needled pine is an alternate host for the fungus. Rust of white pine has caused severe losses. Susceptible currants and gooseberries cannot be planted safely nearer than 1,000 ft and preferably 0.5 mile from white pine."

Well, those don't jive but one statement is from U of I and the other from OSU.

They give some choices of resistant & susceptible varieties of berries.

Those 5-needle, (Quinquefoliae) white pines include:

P. lambertiana - Sugar Pine
P. monticola - Western White Pine
P. reflexa - Southwestern White Pine
P. strobus - Eastern White Pine

You can look at the list . . . but, it looks to me that it's mostly Asian and North American pine trees that are susceptible and not all of the pines in those areas by a long shot. I think the landscape pine varieties in yards are European but I've gotten into trouble with pretending that I know a darn thing about landscape trees.

d'S'

I am terrible at tree identification. I know what a blue spruce looks like. I have a few other evergreens in the yard, and I don't know what they are (yet). I (think) I know what a white pine that grows in VT looks like, 5 long needles together. I was once told that 5 needled are white pine and 3 needled are red pine. This is the general extent of my pine knowledge, and it may very well be regional.

That said, Billie, are the trees in that area White Pine? I tried to do a search to see if I could find out anything, and I found something that talked about the color of the Ponderosa Pines. If they are ponderosas, would they be affected by the rust? (Again, I really don't know much the trees) Or would their major problem in that are be the beetles?

So, is it a point of view thing as to if the problem is the berries causing problems for the trees or the trees cause problems for the berries?

I found this info (see link below) on the Jostaberry from CSU - maybe this is one of the diseases it's resistant to. Guess I need to do some more digging if this is what I decide to plant.

Thanks!!

Here is a link that might be useful: Jostaberry - CSU

Honestly Amy, in my way of thinking, whether or not you plant two or three Jostaberries is not going to destroy Black Forest, it is already having some problems. Those are ponderosa pines. They are classified as yellow pines on the website below. If DH and I remember correctly, the news a few years ago said that the damage in BF was from the beetles, not rust. Plus if Colorado was worried about it, they would have banned gooseberries, currents and jostaberries from comming into the state. Bottom line, I think it would be safe, but that is my thinking and we all know how blondes are when they try to think...

Billie

PS, My friend who lives down the road from you dixcovered a gooseberry in the yard of the house they just rented, right there in BF.

Here is a link that might be useful: Ponderosa Pine Website

My in-laws grow gooseberries in an area with plenty of Ponderosa pines, with no problems. They're in southern Douglas County, Colorado. They grow a few small bushes next to their rhubarb patch. The bushes do not interfere with nearby walkways. The berries are tart, making good pies and jellies.

I love gooseberries, currants, jostaberries, etc. I haven't yet tried to grow them here. All are tart. Some can be eaten off the bush, depending on the variety and your tolerance for tartness. Some varieties are sweeter than others. The bush size is variable, depending on the variety and growing conditions. Some varieties have vicious thorns, though apparently not jostaberries.

According to the usual websites, jostaberries are thornless, vigorous (5' tall), sweet enough to eat fresh, and completely resistant to white pine blister rust.

Here are a few sources of info, though I'm sure you've already done a fair amount of research.

http://www.eewinerycoop.com/docs/jostaberries.pdf

http://extension.oregonstate.edu/catalog/html/ec/ec1361/ (the Black Forest climate is similar to east of the Cascades in Oregon, and there are plenty of ponderosa and lodgepole pines all over Oregon)

You already have the CSU Extension info.

You can contact the local Extension Service to see if they have any concerns, variety recommendations, or more info about whether it would be suitable for your space.

I'd say, go for it! If you don't like them, you can always give them away or rip them out. Several local nurseries carry them.

I don't believe that either Ponderosa or lodgepoles are 5-needled pines. But, White Pines are beautiful trees and you wouldn't want to lose them if they are nearby.

" . . . resistant to white pine blister rust."

How 'bout this, Amy?

"'Josta' berry (Ribes nidigrolaria) takes the looks of a gooseberry, removes the thorns, and makes it sweeter. It combines the vigorous growth and rich flavor of a black currant with disease resistance (including to white pine blister rust and mildew)."

It is a parenthetical remark but looks good to me . . . especially since all states have rescinded restrictions on Ribes species, I've read (except, perhaps at the nursery level).

d'S'

Here is a link that might be useful: National Gardening Association

Thanks for the links. They were some I hadn't found, and did have some good information.

From the National Gardening Association link...

"The tangy-sweet flavor of a jostaberry (pronounced yust-a-berry) is a mix of grape, blueberry, and kiwi-fruit. In recipes, substitute the 1/2- to 1-inch berries for cranberries. Though josta-berries are great in jams, jellies, and pies, mine never make it to the kitchen because I enjoy eating them right off the bush"

This does make the flavor sound appealing. I've read descriptions of the black currants tasting similar to juniper berries. I've never eaten juniper berries, but the ones I have come in contact with were just not something I really wanted to eat. Course, maybe it's 'cause the tree smelled a bit like cat pee... so I was starting to wonder for a minute what I read that made me consider these plants to start with, but then I read another that makes them sound good!

So many decisions...

Juniper berries - black currants??

I don't know about the origins of the ones at the store but . . . pick up a box!

I like juniper berries! Well, I like to rub the berries between my hands and smell them. I like gin.

The currants and juniper berries analogy doesn't make sense to me. And, I'd always assumed that the bushes smelled that way because the cats pee on them . . . a cedar forest smells like a cedar chest.

S'

I've never seen them at the store, then again, maybe I never looked. Are they fresh berries (I mean grocery-store-fresh, not fresh-fresh of course)? I was thinking I should see if I can find black currant jelly at a store to try too.

When I lived in TX, I worked as a floral designer. When we got Christmas greens in, and if you were the lucky one to open the box if juniper, well, you got quite a whiff. We had a juniper tree of some sort at the house in MT. I used to clip branches to add to wreaths. I know the cats didn't pee on that one, since the lowest branches were about 4' above the ground. It would have to have been one heck of a cat!

I'm not so big on gin, I'm more a vodka gal myself. Well, really, tequila WAS my favorite, but that was many many moons ago.