Phil,

I'm wondering if the China 'Irene Watts' finally got included in the OLOAEN? I noticed that it is still not in the 2004 ARS Handbook, even though many of the SoCal exhibitors grow and show it. Last I heard, ARS says that 'Irene Watts' is white (CRL notes apricot in brackets), but this rose is definitely light pink. What can be done to get this rose listed (and correctly)?

Phil - I am not finding this item on the ARS website to order. How do I obtain a copy?

Kitty, there has been a thread on the Antique Rose forum about Irene Watts. It appears the rose sold in the U.S. as Irene Watts is really Pink Gruss an Aachen. You probably noted the CRL says as much. We are working on the issue and I hope to come up with something helpful in the next couple of months. In the meantime, the real Irene Watts is in the 2004 Official List.

To order the new 2004 Official List call 1-800-637-6534, ext. 3015 and talk with Sue Bogues.

The 2004 Official List is now available online at the ARS website. Click on Shop Online and then Publications. If you plan to exhibit, you really need this book.

Today I receivd my ARS 2004 Offical List of Approved Exhibition Names for Exhibitors and Judges.

I noticed many roses I grow are not included but are listed in the CRL 2004 with an AEN designation.

A few examples of this are:

Antique Brass - (JACfehon) HT ab Zary 1999 AEN
Attache - HT m PPAF Tantau 2001 AEN
Black Baccara - (MEIdebenne) HT dr PPAF Meilland 2001 AEN
Gypsy Curiosa - (RUIdusty) HT ob deRuiter AEN
Superstition - HT m 2002 AEN
Vendela - (TANaledef) HT w PP 10999 Tantau 1997 AEN

So does that mean I can or cannot show these roses?

Thanks for your help.

deborah, the sources for verifying AENs are Modern Rosees XI, the Handbook for Selecting Roses, the Official List of AENs, registrations pages from American Rose magazine and the ARS website, and the CRL. I've shown Attache, it wasn't DQ'ed. If you're going to exhibit, I recommend that you get a copy of the new "Guidelines for Judging Roses", even if you're not interested in becoming a judge.

I'd like to see a picture of the real 'Irene Watts'. For many years now, all the exhibitors I know here in So. Cal. exhibit the same version of 'Irene Watts', the one that could possibly be 'Pink Gruss an Aachen'. I'd like to know more information about this issue since "Irene Watts" wins a lot at shows here. It won the Victorian Award at the recent San Diego National Show.

I understand something is going to be published on this soon. There should be something in the ARS magazine before the summer is out. Steve Jones has some very old drawings of the real Irene Watts with differences from Pink Gruss an Aachen. Marily Young is in Europe now and will be taking photos of plants labeled as both while she is there in an attempt to see if both still exist. It is a messy situation.

While she is there she should also take pictures of what the real Nicole and Hannah Gordon look like.

Good thought, if Kordes still knows.

I'm eager to see these upcoming pictures and drawings of Irene Watts and Pink Gruss. I purchased a rose calling itself Irene Watts several years ago from Heirloom Roses in Oregon. I entered it in a rose show not long after and I remember the judges discussing the possiblity of DQing it. They didn't DQ in the end but I can't remember if it won Victorian or not. I don't want to exhibit it again until it is correctly identified.

John Clements of Heirloom has already publicly stated that the rose he has been selling as Irene Watts is actually Pink Gruss an Aachen (through no fault of his). If you bought it there, you got Pink Gruss.

Thanks Phil, I forgot about reading about that on another GardenWeb forum. It will be interesting to see what the real Irene Watts looks like if it is found by Marily in Europe.