Hi Lola--did you mean to post on the Rose Forum or the Antique Rose Forum? This is the gallery--so you might want to re-post. You'll probably get more responses on the regular rose forums.

But in the meantime, I'll add that I am planting Scepter'd Isle this afternoon and I hope that, grafted, it does not go wild with octopus arms! I bought it assuming a nice vase-shaped bush like you mention.

I dont' know what region you are in, but my impression is that most of the octopus-arms complaints come from California with their unique growing conditions. So far, here in middle America, I have run in to no monsters--with the possible exception of Gertrude. Between her odd growth patterns and unbelievably prickly canes and very poor re-bloom, I decided she is the ultimate diva and not worth my time, so I dug her up years ago and have never regretted it.

So I don't think there is anything you can do about Gertrude, but if you don't live in California, your Scepter'd Isle should bloom floriferously on its vase-shaped bush-- : )

I've never compared a Shakespeare 2000 grafted and own root, but my impression is that no matter what you do with it, WS 2000 grows awkwardly SIDEWAYS--yup--spreads out its heavily-laden branches that sometime need supports to hold them up. One poster on here claims his beautiful WS 2000 grows 6 ft wide but only a few feet up. But it produces the loveliest blooms and reblooms quite well and has some disease-resistance--so I love mine (it is grafted, by the way). Don't think you can do much to change Shakespeare's nature either.

Kate

Thanks Kate. Yup, wrong forum. I couldn't figure out where it went!

I hope your scepter is as wonderful for you as mine is for me. Good to hear everyone's wm shakes grows sideways. Mine reminds me of a young tomato vine sometimes, but I think it really wants to be a petunia. ;-)

Tamora has stayed under 5 ft. at a friend's (Calif.). Good one for small city gardens.

There is a book at our library that has a 'diagram' with each rose showing its mature shape. Older intros. Been searching for something that online. No luck as yet.

I have noticed the Austin's I have take 3-4 years to show their stuff.

I thought it was just my Shakespeare! I solved it with a tomato/veggie ladder from Gardener's Supply Co. They last years and years. I had them and decided to try them for training floppy bands and it is just the thing to hold Shakespeare up until his canes gain some ability to stand on their own. These are also good for keeping any leaning over canes full of rose blooms upright. The green color blends in and does not distract.

Sceptered Isle was lying down but now is a bit more upright but still has long arms. Hopefully as the canes age and thicken they will lay down less.

The oddest one was Queen of Sweden. It grew 2 long long sky high (6'+) thin canes that eventually fell over. I cut it back dramatically and put it in a pot. If it continues doing that I don't think I'll keep it.

Years ago i had som Gertrude Jekyll on its own roots but the bush didn't do any better.