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How big a hole to dig for minis?
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Posted by shadygarden_co z5 Denver (My Page) on Fri, Apr 6, 07 at 21:30
| The Denver Rose Society says to make a hole for miniature roses from a foot to a foot-and-a-half deep, but how wide should you dig it? I'm not talking about mini-floras, just regular minis, specifically Minnie Pearl, Cupcake, Jean Kenneally, and Pacesetter?
Thanks in advance for your help,
Marlene |
Follow-Up Postings:
RE: How big a hole to dig for minis?
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| I agree with them on the holes, especially for Jean Kenneally. That's going to be a large mini, up to 3' or so. The others you might get by with the foot deep. But make the width of your hole at least a foot also. That might seem incredible to you but these minis will send their roots down even deeper than this. You're just giving them a good beginning to develop strong roots to spread out. I've heard it said to dig even deeper and wider than this:) Leslie |
RE: How big a hole to dig for minis?
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Thanks so much, Leslie. I will follow your advice, although I wish it wasn't so much work (:
Have a Happy Easter and keep warm. Marlene |
RE: How big a hole to dig for minis?
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| Marlene, I would dig that big a hole at least for Jean Keneally. If you have really good soil you could get by on a foot for the others, but JK is going to be a really big rose and you won't be sorry. I've been digging myself and in my back yard it takes me 3 days to dig a hole for one rose. Dig and fill with water.... I had 7 new minis and then I've got 25 that I'm transplanting, so I feel your pain:) Oh, I'm warm, I used the air conditioner yesterday, LOL
that's a nice thought though, Happy Easter to you too:)
Leslie |
RE: How big a hole to dig for minis?
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| Hi Marlene, I'm not jumping on you or scolding you. Hope you take this the way intended. I enjoy the work. The more I work, especially planting, the better the roses are. The harder I work, the more I appreciate the rewards. I'm being lazy in a way when I dig 3 foot deep x 3 foot diameter holes to plant big roses. That initial work will save a lot more work over the years than can be imagined. I always compare the planting hole to the foundation of a house. You can build the nicest home in the world and if you didn't prepare the foundation properly... it will fall apart and cause untold work trying to keep it together before it happens :) 2 x 2 holes would be great for minis. It is your garden though. Dig the holes the size you want to. I don't let anyone tell me how to plant anything. That is just my view on the work at planting. I have to tell myself that when Deb comes home with a couple dozen roses *LOL* That reminds me... I need to get another sheet of plywood. The one I lay beside the hole to pile dirt on wore out last year. |
forgot...
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| I forgot to mention that Stan got back to me about the mini X-Rated in Colorado. He said it was a hardy rascal until killed by the guys putting up siding at his place. |
RE: How big a hole to dig for minis?
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| Hey Digger, I wondered what Sue would say if she came and saw this conversation about Jean Keneally and a digging a hole for her *LOL* And here you are, ok Marlene, here's a excellent gardener, some say he has a magic touch with roses. Digger, would you post a couple of pics of minis for her to inspire her what her roses would look like with the extra work:) Mine are blooming and look awfully pretty but I don't have the back up pics like you do of full mature bushes to show her. Digger, how the heck are you, it's awfully quiet without you and not the same and how is Deb? Have a nice Easter if you do log on today, if not belated to you both. I heard your weather still isn't much better yet. I've been putting pics out:) That's too bad about X-Rated, some people just don't have any luck at all. We're talking about spotting lots of grasshoppers in CA. I squished one the other day, man that's all I need. They wiped me out in the mtns almost a decade ago. They'd love all my tender roses and daylillies now, I hope they don't swarm here.... Sorry Marlene for the side bar, I do hope Digger will come back and check and put on a couple of his beautiful rose pics for you, he does grow Jean Keaneally too:) He does know rose growing, how good is your soil anyways?? Happy Easter again to you:) |
RE: How big a hole to dig for minis?
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| Hi Dave, What do backfill the plant holes with? :-) Michelle |
RE: How big a hole to dig for minis?
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| To answer your question would depend on what kind of soil you have. If it's clay, dig a big hole and bring in some better soil. If you have good soil, or good amended soil like what I have, I just use a trowel and scoop some soil out. I knock the plant out of the pot and check the roots to see if they are healthy, and to see if the roots were encircling the pot. If so just use your fingers to straighten the roots out. Then put it in the soil where the roots and sterms meet, then backfill. I am using superphosphate in the hole. When I say amended soil, I mixed all kinds of organic matter and sharp sand with my clay loam soil. My plants are doing great! |
RE: How big a hole to dig for minis?
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Thanks to everyone for their help. Leslie, it made me feel better to hear that it took you 3 days to dig a hole for one rose, because I know it took me about that long last summer when I planted Bonica and Morden Blush.
And Digger, I didn't take your advice the wrong way, although I'm not sure I will dig holes 2 x 2 for the minis. I do have clay soil and appreciate the advice on the backfill and will definitely amend with compost. I used superphosphate last year, too. By the way, what is sharp sand? Leslie, you said to fill with water. What do you mean? Sorry for all the questions. Thanks again, Marlene |
RE: How big a hole to dig for minis?
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| Oh, In order to get the hole deep enough I'd dig and fill with water to soften the clay to be able to dig deeper, LOL. Usually I'm working on a bunch of holes at a time, so I'm doing multiple holes and after I work on them all one day I fill them with water to soften and leave them and come back the next day to dig down some more and do it again... This was in my back yard that hadn't gotten any water at all to soften up the clay. BTW I throw out the clay, I don't save it, I don't mix it in I THROW it away. I use Kelloggs soil that has amendments for clay soils and is good for flowers. The Kellogg's has gypsum in it that will help soften the clay soil, there's a lot of discussion about that. Someone I trust with roses suggested it and I make sure to do it. Yesterday where I've been watering and has been getting watered by the sprinklers, I actually was able to dig the holes in one day! What a nice surprise for me! So some areas now that have been getting rain and water now are easier to dig up. If I get out there after a rain and take advantage of that:) If I'm in an area that never receives water it does take me 3 days to dig a hole... |
RE: How big a hole to dig for minis?
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| There are types of sand. Play sand is fine, sharp sand has a mixture of different size granules in it. It's called fill sand in the construction trade. |
RE: How big a hole to dig for minis?
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LOL, 2 x 2 is a big hole for a mini. Only a crazy digger would do that. The kind that would bring equipment and trucks to a new house, remove a foot or so of old soil out of the yard and import the best soil he can find. A digger that crazy would probably save the best soil off jobsites, have the truck drivers take it to his special spot and store it at the company pit. A really insane digger would go in on weekends and run the soil though the rock crusher screening plant along with sand at the pit because he wants a little more sand in it. (coarse fill sand that Dan mentioned) He would use that as top dressing around the roses every spring after cleaning out around the roses.
For backfilling new roses he would have a compost pile behind the garage. Some of that good mixed soil goes there with lawn clippings and soil out of planting holes. Cow manure gets thrown in the pile. Half the pile is hot and the other half is ready to go in planting holes. I mix the composted soil with the soil dug out of the planting hole, about half and half. The leftover soil is put in compost pile. Bet you never ask me that again, LOL.
Note: the owner of the company thought I was nuts when I first started processing soil. Everyone in the company started using the soil for their gardens. Pretty soon he was selling some... now he keeps a product pile of soil at the pit to sell. He gets more per cubic yard for it than for road base rock :) No wear and tear on the rock crusher too. It is just mixing and screening the soil and sand. Leslie, been meaning to mention that I go through the roses and squish aphids before I wash the foliage. I like squishing them :) The washing moves around the ones I don't see. It doesn't get rid of them totally. It does keep damage to a bare minimum. Gotta leave some aphids for the ladybugs to munch on. |
Here is a link that might be useful: Deb & Digger's Minis
RE: How big a hole to dig for minis?
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| Thanks for the info. Having access to the big toys and using them for your own benefit doesn't sound crazy a'tall to me... :-) Knowing how you mix it is interesting. My brother has a rock crusher and screening equipment next door (and a gravel pit). Another neighbor has truckloads of composted goat manure. Hmmmmmm. The problem in my area is going to be finding topsoil to mix in for the base. Hmmmmmmmmmm. Cheers,
Michelle |
RE: How big a hole to dig for minis?
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The crusher operator and his helpers would not appreciate me running manure through the plant. Their job is one of the nastiest around without having manure in the mix... even dry, composted manure :) I'm a primadonna operator and can get away with what I want but that would almost be like them putting manure in the cab of my excavator. Wanna see a digger go ballistic?? LOL
Topsoil here is at a premium also. We stockpile even the borderline decent stuff. It sells for pretty good money too. It works out great for customers that need soil. We can give them a pretty good deal. |
RE: How big a hole to dig for minis?
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Digger, I have to confess, I like squishing the little critters too:) It gives me an immense satisfaction to do that. I don't know why I've got so many this year. Everyone I'm talking to in CA has them pretty bad too. Hey, I've got a bloom on Gemini now, wow....
Yeah, I think you enjoy your job, it's a calling:)
I've got the last 10 minis to transplant today, yippee to be done on them. Tomorrow I'm getting new mini climbers from Sequoia. The holes are already dug for them, 2 feet deep and the trellis' are all in place waiting:) Sorry Marlene for the sidebars...Digger's info is always excellent and also always entertaining:) I wish I could have done just that in my back yard before I began, remove the top two feet of soil etc. I had lots of offers for landscaping, but it was also lots of dollars I didn't have to spend. We tried with the rototiller for the whole yard, all it did was bounce, LOL* I'm doing it myself, one hole at a time, the hard way.... |
RE: How big a hole to dig for minis?
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| Hey, Leslie, Dan, and Digger, I enjoyed all your sidebars and replies. We had a weekend of rain, so yesterday, Monday, I went and made one hole a little deeper and wider, and dug and completed another hole for a mini. I made them both 18 inches deep and 18 inches wide, so hope that is enough. Now I only have three to go. Last year, I had a landscape company come out, after I, my grandson, and son-in-law had moved out lots and lots of river rock, and they brought in new topsoil (they said) and then I planted about 8 roses, including three climbers, myself, because I didn't trust them to do it right. I mixed compost with the so-called topsoil, about 1/3 compost, put superphosphate in the bottom of the holes. So I guess I will do the same thing this spring. All the roses seem to be doing well, except one wasn't getting enough sun, so I transplanted it a couple of weeks ago. Sorry to ramble like this, but just hope I am doing things the right way. I have a couple of compost piles, acutally three, going. One is a tumbler, one is a trash can in my garage that I can add to in the winter (leaves and kitchen scraps), and the other kind of a bin affair. So I will use some of that. I am never sure how hot they get, but it seems to smell and look pretty good after I screen it. I sure am impressed with your digging, Digger. I wonder if Deb could lend you to me for a day or two. And Leslie, I now know what you mean by the water filling. I did that, too, last year, when planting roses because it was so dry, but I am glad to hear that it was the right thing to do. Thanks, Dan, for your explanation of sharp sand. Again, sorry to ramble so, and thanks to all, Marlene |
RE: How big a hole to dig for minis?
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| Hey, it's your thread Marlene, ramble as much as you'd like to:) Come over and see the one Zoe, aka Ladybutterfly, and I have going about Rainforest and Green Ice and join in, LOL* It sounds like you've got something going right for you then on the roses if last years did so well. I think you've got a good handle on it, minis really are just smaller version of large roses. I get in trouble for saying that too. I planted all mine the same way, large and small, can't tell them growing any different myself. I can see you double checking that you'd need to dig such a deep hole also just for minis. Perception is that it's smaller why would you need to??? I'm usually lurking around here hoping to see more activity on the mini forum so if ever you want to strike up a conversation about the roses bring it up or feel free to email me:) I'm taking a break from mine right now, I got 3 more transplanted to the ground and 3 in pots. It's pretty warm, or I'm warm too...Only have 3 more to put in pots and I'm done!!! Then I get to reward myself and go to the mini nursery tomorrow:) We may get rain tomorrow, I hope it holds off long enough for me to go buy some more roses, ha ha!! Blue skies and sunshine right now... Seriously Marlene, go take a look at Digger's garden link he provided for you, he's got some awesome mini roses and his photography is that also! All his roses look that great:) You're welcome from me, anytime, I'm always somewhere around:) Leslie |
RE: How big a hole to dig for minis?
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Thanks, Leslie, for your follow-up. I did look at Digger's pictures a while back and I'll have to agree, they are so beautiful.
Today I dug a hole for Jean Keneally -- 2' by 2'. So I am proud of myself. Now I have two more to go. One is for Cupcake or Minnie Pearl, and one is for The Fairy, not a mini. Can't wait to get them all dug. We are supposed to get another big snow storm Thursday and Friday. I can't wait! Oh, and then another one on Monday. We are all very tired of snow. Today we had blue skies and sunshine, too. It was quite warm, digging, 51 degrees but I was sweating. Don't buy too many roses and thanks, Marlene |
RE: How big a hole to dig for minis?
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| Your welcome, that's what Consulting Rosarians are for! |
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