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Identitiy of this Old Rose #2

susiesuz
17 years ago

This rose was a rose my Grandfather gave to my Grandmother sometime in the early 1940's... it is a hybrid tea and medium to dark green foliage. It is not a climber. It has single blooms at the end of a stem and a good strong Old Rose scent. The petals in this picture are not good, but this was the first time this rose bloomed in over 3 years. My first thought when I saw the bloom was that it was fake. It lookes like that old red velvet and not like the red roses of present day. The petals really looked like they were the finest velvet I have ever seen. The center has yellow stamens that really stand out against the deep red color.

It is possible that it may be the Allen Chandler from 1923, as that one was both a climber and a bush rose.

Does anyone have any ideas on the identity of this rose? Would appreciate any thoughts.

Image link:

Comments (6)

  • rosyjennifer
    17 years ago

    Many roses couldn't survive unprotedted in your zone; I think that is a clue to your rose's ID.

    Maybe Etiole de Holland?? I've not seen it in person but it shows yellow stamens in many pictures. Or Crimson Glory?

    It really looks like Josephine Bruce, a rose I've long admired from a photo in "Roses" by Roger Phillips and Martyn Rix. The pics on HMF don't look like the pics in my book. My book shows full, fringed yellow stamens and very velvety petals. But JB was introduced in 1953.

    It is beautiful; I'd love to know its identity, too! Keep feeding and watering it; you may have a rare rose! : )

    Here is a link that might be useful: HMF

  • susiesuz
    Original Author
    17 years ago

    Thanks Jennifer... I plan on checking out all your suggestions. It is beautiful and I can't wait for it to get better established to see what the blooms look like then. This rose was at home in Des Moines, IA (planted in the late 30's or early 40's)... up until last Nov, when I brought it from Iowa to Kansas. It survived its first winter here and I hope to try to propagate it later this year. I am still in shock that it survived transport... thank the good Lord for Igloo coolers!

    According to my ARS Encyclopedia of Roses 2003 edition, p. 212, JB was originated in Bees, Britain, 1949 and its parentage is Crismson Glory x Madge Whipp, but the color is dark crimson. It does not show a fully open bloom and the color looks almost dark mauve and not red... but I will look further into it and see what I find.
    Thanks Again!

  • rosyjennifer
    17 years ago

    Later today, I'll check some of my older book for early HT pictures. What do the thorns look like on your rose? A lot or a little?

    The most common red mystery rose is Dr. Huey which is a rootstock that other roses are grafted onto. You mentioned that your rose was fragrant and bloomed singly. Dr. H isn't fragrant to my nose and blooms in clusters, but does look a bit like your photo. Another red rootstock you may want to look at is Ragged Robin.

    I've attached Dr. Huey photos. What do you think?

    Here is a link that might be useful: Dr. Huey

  • trospero
    17 years ago

    Most assuredly not 'Dr. Huey': the bloom form is wrong. 'Crimson Glory', by Kordes is a short growing HT, to a maximum of about 3 feet and often a bit wider. Bloom color is deep velvet crimson-red and "blues" with age to a deeper crimson with purplish tones. Bloom size is usually very large; about 5 inches and the fragrance is superb. Does that match?

  • rosyjennifer
    17 years ago

    I'm glad it's not Dr. Huey!

  • susiesuz
    Original Author
    17 years ago

    Sorry I have not answered for a few days... been out of town.

    Thank you so much for the suggestions! I checked both out and I now think the rose is Crimson Glory. For a time I thought the rose was the Allan Chandler introduced in 1940, but after looking at pictures of Crimson Glory... I found one that looked exactly like my rose and the foliage was the exact same... also CG was introduced in 1935... and that fits also along with so many other points. Thank You all so much!

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