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which_chick

I think this is an alba, need help?

which.chick
15 years ago

I have a rose I am trying to identify. My brother got it at a plant swap a couple of years ago. The lady said it was striped. It is not striped, but that doesn't make it a bad bush.

The bush is a tall, once-flowering rose. When not flopped over due to flowers or severely wet foliage, it stands five to six feet tall. (The one I have is about five years old or thereabouts and I don't prune it.)

It is sort of vase-shaped and stands upright if not flopped over as noted above. When it flops, it lays on the ground, on my nearby rugosa, on my peony plants. It doesn't break anything when it flops over and it will recover to an upright position on its own when it dries out or the flowers are done.

It does NOT have the habit of a climber like New Dawn (I have one of those to compare it to.) but sometimes I think it might benefit from some support.

Here's the best I could do for a picture of its general habit -- it's planted near other things and is currently flopped over on the peonies. All visible flowers belong to the rose in question, though.

overall bush

The rose has light green, matte foliage. It has a variable number of leaflets on the leaf stem, mostly seven but frequently also nine or eleven on older foliage.

Some leaves (with tape measure for scale):

leaves

New baby foliage is a bit lighter green without any red to it.

baby foliage

Older foliage is only marginally darker than new foliage. None of the foliage is anything besides light green. All leaves are 100% not shiny and they're smooth, not textured like a rugosa.

Plant Swap Rose has thorns of varying sizes, big ones are slightly recurved (pointing opposite the direction of growth). On older canes, the thorns are dark grey while the canes are still green. They're light green on new canes.

Stem/thorns

Other view of stem.

The rose is fully hardy in a 6a and it does not die back in the winter. (I ignore it in the winter. I also ignore it in the summer, for that matter, other than smelling the roses it makes.) Plant Swap Rose has appallingly healthy foliage, vigorous growth, and suckers freely (more so than my Charles de Mills or either of my very pink rugosas of unknown lineage). I don't spray it or feed it or anything. It just grows.

The buds are smooth and look like normal rosebuds, not stubby (like Charles de Mills) and not super-pointed like flower shop roses. The green bits that cover the bud are pretty smooth, not mossy or overly leafy (not like Madame Hardy) and they're unscented.

Bud

The buds look almost white and I lose a few of the early ones to that brown gunky mush problem. (Is that thrips?) As a result of the brown gunky stuff, some buds do not open well but most of them do.

In bloom, the Plant Swap Rose has pale pink flowers, about 2" across. These pictures are a little blue-tinged, don't know what happened to the white balance this morning...

front

side

Flowers are in what I would call loose clusters at the ends of canes. The bush is not cluster-flowered like a polyantha or a floribunda. Each flower has a stem with at least one leaf on it.

General bloom habit, flopped over the peony bush

When open, the flowers start out light pink and get whiter as the flower ages. They're double flowers. You can sometimes see yellow stamens in the middle but the stamen part is not always readily visible. The flowers have enough petals to be double but they're not stupendously ruffled like Charles de Mills.

This rose flowers once a year (right now) and does not rebloom at all. The flowers are very fragrant. The scent reminds me a bit of rosa multiflora -- it's heavy and sweet like multiflora, but a lot less musky than multiflora. (Where multiflora clubs you over the head, this is a more civilized rose fragrance. It's tamer.) The bush definitely smells like a rose and I can smell the flowers several yards away.

Faded flowers shatter easily, leaving a clean shrubbery. If it makes hips, I have never seen them. The bloom period is about two, three weeks depending on how the weather here goes.

If there is more information or other pictures that anyone feels might help, please let me know and I'll do what I can to fill in the missing spots.

Comments (6)

  • lionheart_gw (USDA Zone 5A, Eastern NY)
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    You are very thorough. Good on ya! :-)

    At first I thought it might be Banshee, but the form of the blooms is not right for that rose.

    It's definitely an Alba and looks like it could be Celestial or Amelia. Both are very old and wonderful roses.

    Note about the site linked: photos are user-contributed, and sometimes folks post a photo or two of a mislabeled rose. It happens, but you'll find that most of the rose photos look like your rose. And, of course, different cameras and their macros vary in their color saturation, especially with pinks and reds.

    Bloom color can also be affected by temperatures and the amount of sun the plant receives. Blooms on mature plants can be different from blooms on immature plants.

    The brown gunk is a fungus called botrytis. It is most likely to occur in cool, damp weather. If temps are warm or the air is dry it is not so prominent. Some years you might see quite a bit of botrytis and other years there is little to none.

    Some folks treat it preventively with a fungicide; others, like me, don't bother. We just clip off the affected buds as far as humanly possible, and clean up any diseased blooms that have fallen to prevent the spores from hanging around. Some roses are more prone to getting botrytis than others. But it is usually not a big issue, depending on your climate.

    It is indeed a lovely rose and isn't it wonderful to have a wafting fragrance? This rose will probably outlive you and me. :-)

    It's a vigorous, hardy, and care-free rose. Congratulations!

  • hartwood
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    As soon as I saw the photos of the leaves and flowers, I thought that this could be Banshee. I'm still leaning in that direction. It's definitely not Celestial (unless the leaves on your rose have a blue cast that isn't picked up in your photos).

    Does your rose sucker?

    Connie

  • which.chick
    Original Author
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    This rose suckers readily. The foliage isn't blueish at all. It's just a light green.

    As for the brown gunk, we've had 2x the normal amount of rain this spring/summer. Most years the bush does better and we get less rain... so this isn't a major problem. :) (The peonies also got hit with it and they usually don't.)

  • belmont8
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I am going with Banshee. (The bloom you show from the front does look a little like Amelia, though.) Does it sometimes ball? That is a Banshee trait, though not all forms do it. If it doesn't, you have a fine form.

  • marbree
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    It looks a lot like a Banshee, but I've never heard of one where the plant flopped over. The ones I'm familiar with are generally tall and upright, and also hold their blooms upright.

    Here's a link to look at:

    Banshee: The Great Impersonator, by Leonie Bell, courtesy of the 1977 AMERICAN ROSE ANNUAL, from Paul Barden's Old Garden Roses and Beyond

    Here is a link that might be useful: Banshee: The Great Impersonator

  • lionheart_gw (USDA Zone 5A, Eastern NY)
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    After I posted I started thinking about it a bit more, which is the exact opposite of what should be done. :-)

    The rose has all the signs of Banshee:

    1. Suckers wildly. Suckers often appear quite a ways away from the "parent" plant. I wouldn't be surprised if you found a sucker a mile away from the main plant; Banshee is very determined to put out new Banshees. :-)

    2. Banshee is very prone to botrytis. The wetter the weather, the worse it gets. This past May was very unhumid in my area and there is very little botrytis. Like Marbree said, sometimes the blooms "ball" and may not open, even if they don't have botrytis.

    3. My Banshee is just opening its blooms so I gave it a quick look-see this morning before leaving for work. Some of the blooms do nod downward. Never noticed that before. That clinched it. I'm almost certain that your rose is Banshee.

    4. The color, leaf shape, and leaf configuration is absolutely dead on for Banshee. Pinks can be ubiquitous and the colors depend on camera settings and individual computer monitor settings.

    The photos of the stems looked a little longer than typical for Banshee, which is why I suggested a couple of the Albas. However, as I looked at Banshee this morning, from a bit of a distance the stems look longer. As you get closer to the plant you see multiple buds hiding under existing blooms.

    Another thing learned: my visual memory really stinks! :-)

    I agree with Belmont and Marbree.

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