Yeah, I don't have Folklore ...yet. ;-)

Let's get the top-level eliminations done first of all. Your photos and description show me your mystery-rose is definitely *not*
Seashell
Today
Coral Sea
Montezuma.

Folklore's fragrance is rated as Intense ...and its leaves are rated as Glossy.

I'm also leaning away from your orange mystery-rose being Arizona ...whose petals tend to quill noticeably more than yours appear to. But as we've all seen, Arizona blooms look so different in so many locations, I can't quite count it out entirely.

Your photos and your description of the blooms' form and color, and the bush's growth-habit (very tall & "narrow"), immediately reminded me of a rose in my yard that I forgot to include on my "Long-Lasting Blooms" list.
It is Sundowner - which is a grandiflora, thus matching your rose's bloom-habit. Take a look at the photos at HelpMeFind.

Also "matching" is the fact that my two Sundowner bushes were purchased as bodybags at WalMart, like yours. But mine were correctly labeled ...I think. ;-)

As I said, your desription of your rose's blooms and their "behavior" matches my Sundowner perfectly. But... mine has at least medium-strength fragrance. Also, its older leaves have leathery texture ...but not what I'd call "very" leathery. To my eyes, they are medium-green, and at least somewhat semi-glossy.

You said your rose has "50+ petals." I've gotta ask, is that an estimation, or the result of doing an average-petals-per-bloom count with several blooms? Also, was that a Spring Flush count, or from a later flush? The reason I'm asking is, Sundowner is rated at only 35 petals. Note: I did a 3-bloom petal-count a few minutes ago. My most-mature Sundowner bush produces blooms which average about 40 petals. (Your rosebush appears to be *quite* mature, and thus might be producing higher petal-numbers.)

When I was outside counting, I took a "sideview" photo of a just-opening bloom, to show the orange petals with yelow base ...and also made a "whole bush" shot. I'll post them for you over in the Rose Gallery ...or, email them to you. Whatever method you prefer.

Sundowner might be incorrect. The fragrance-level and leaf-leatheriness factors don't seem to match. But Sundowner sure does match your grandiflora mystery-rose's described bloom-color, "ageing-appearance," and bloom-form.

Regards,
JohnReb

JohnReb,

You are proving to be a most valuable resource on the rose forums. You have narrowed down the possibilities well, and I'm intensely interested in seeing your photos. My Botanica book describes Sundowner as "an enormous grower." The color looks right, except Botanica lists apricot, and so does HelpMeFind. I'm not sure I've ever seen an apricot shade in these roses - it's yellow-to-orange-to-pink, then aging to salmon-pink all over.

You are correct to ask about the petal count, that's exactly where my doubt still remains - that, and the total lack of fragrance. The petal count was done on the first few blooms during the first season for these roses - I was trying to figure out what they were because it was immediately obvious that they weren't Sunsprites. That was several years ago, but I seem to remember that several blooms were counted, and some were up to 60 petals. It's deceptive, because they do look like 35-petaled blooms. Maybe I couldn't count rose petals back then.

Post or send those pics.

JohnReb-

Since you own a Sundowner (you think)-can you look at this photo and tell me if the leaf wrinkling evident in the rear of this HMF photo of Sundowner is normal for your bush:

{{gwi:1224264}}

I own a Sundowner as well (I think) but it has not bloomed since transplanted. It is now growing like gangbusters, but it is exhibiting this strange "wrinkling" of the new leaves. I'm thinking this must be char. of this rose-as all other roses growing in that same area are very healthy. Can you help?

No offense people, but that picture shows some apricot, mine doesn't. The only yellow is at the very base of the petals, everthing else is bright orange that fades to salmon pink as it ages. I've also never seen form that loose on mine, either.

Argghh!

Brenhelms, I checked my more-mature Sundowner bush. Yes, it has some leaves which look like the ones in your photo.

On my Sundowner, I see some of them on "newer" stems - meaning, stems with unopened buds - but not on every one of those stems.

That's interesting. I wonder what can be the cause of it. And now I'm wondering if the wrinkliness "persists" as those leaves age into full maturity. I'll be keeping an eye on them to see what happens in coming weeks.

Regards,
JohnReb

Thanks JohnReb-this is my first Sundowner, and I knew I had never seen this extent of 'wrinkling' on any of my other rose bushes. I cannot tell that any insects are involved-and I don't recognize any disease which produces this (and only on one bush out of a dozen)-so when I saw the Sundowner photo on HMF and recognized the same phenomena, a light bulb went off saying "okay-maybe this is characteristic of Sundowner!" Yes, this wrinkling is evident only on the newest growth on mine, too. Well, this confirms I did purchase a Sundowner-yeah! I'm looking forward to my first blooms-looks to be a gorgeous rose.

Rosetom, I can't offer anything in the way of ID but is that rose free-standing??? It doesn't look like anything's supporting it! It's wonderful BTW.

Yes, it's free-standing - two of them - there's another one about 8 feet to the left. The stems will fall with a good rain when they get that tall, and need staking. Voodoo is not quite as tall (it's right behind this one) but it never needs staking. They really are amazing roses - whether they're Sundowners or not.

BTW - wrinkled or puckered leaves are usually a result of fertilization. Some varieties are more sensitive than others, this one maybe one that's sensitive. Peace's new leaves are wrinkled every time, but they straighten out eventually. Neither of my bushes (the ones we're talking about) have wrinkles right now.

JohnReb - I took a bunch more photos today, but I'm going to start a new thread - this one already has enough photos in it. I'm hoping you can clinch this for me.