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Vinegar for black spots

Posted by Millie500 6a ON and 9 FL (My Page) on
Sat, Jan 26, 02 at 17:18

I just received my Gardening Life magazine and noticed this recipe:

Acetic acid fights rust, black spots and powdery mildew. To make this spray, mix two tablespoons (30 mL) of cider vinegar in two quarts/litres of water. This spray should only be used in the morning or early evening, when it's cool and there's no direct light on the plant.

Has anyone tried this?

They also recommend the usual baking soda, garlic, horsetail, seaweed, onion greens and horticulutal oil.


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Vinegar for black spots

  • Posted by Kimm1 4a/5b-MI (My Page) on
    Sun, Jan 27, 02 at 8:24

Acetic acid to control Black spot is new to me and since the more common controls, baking soda and milk, tend to be alkaline and most of what I've read about black spot says it grows more better in an acid environment, I'm not altogether sure that would be good.


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RE: Vinegar for black spots

Vinegar is a new one one me too. Baking soda I have used. Horticultural oils too. Bordeaux spray is somewhat effective.


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RE: Vinegar for black spots

I've read that miracid is effective against blackspot. It's acidic.

If black spot doesn't like alkaline environments, would ammonium hydroxide(Ammonia) work? I've sprayed it on other plants. Not to prevent BS, but to give them a shot of nitrogen.


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RE: Vinegar for black spots

I have used ammonia for slugs but for black spots I will continue using baking soda, oil and a squirt of Ivory dishwashing soap. Just sprayed my few roses I have here now. With vinegar I know it's good to kill weeds.


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RE: Vinegar for black spots

I have used this recipe after finding it at one of your rose forums last year and it has worked wonders!!!

3 tablespoons of Apple Cider Vinegar to 5 litres of water. I couldn't begin to tell you how impressed I was at the results! Double Delight, which used to get riddled with blackspot looked lush and healthy with no b/s to be seen!

Also as an experiment I sprayed on the vinegar spray and waited to see how long it would take for more blackspot to appear, and it took approximately 3-4 weeks for the more blackspot prone roses and even longer for the healthier ones,( the Austins ) if at all!

As for only spraying in the early morning or early evening, I found that that didn't matter either. I sprayed during the middle of the day ( in spring, mind you! ) without any burning.

Another method I have adopted now is to spray with the vinegar spray and then alternate with the milk spray - 1 part milk to 7 parts water. Works a treat! I'm so happy to find such a cheap and harmless solution, and by harmless I mean that you can get away with having your skin exposed, but I still wear sunglasses as the vinegar solution could burn your eyes if it blew into them I suppose! All the best and happy gardening!

Here's another method I adopt to occasionally. When your rose leaves are showing sign of deficiency, like yellow leaves etc, simply spray on a solution of either liquid seaweed and water or fish emulsion and water and the leaves bounce back within the week of spraying. I use a small hand sprayer that is about 450 mls. Add only half a teaspoon of the liquid seaweed or fish ..... that's all you need! And that's all from me ......... over and out!
:-D


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RE: Vinegar for black spots

An elderly neighbor of mine who has gorgeous gardens recently recommended pickle juice to me for black mold and mildew on gardenias. I guess this ould be the same principal, although gardenias do appreciate acidity more than roses.


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Re: the milk spray....Does it matter what kind of milk---i.e., whole, lowfat, skim?


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wow - I'm impressed - will have to try the vinegar solution, at least once - always used baking soda before.... now you are talking about the cider vinegar and not the white stuff?


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In Italy we have wine vinegar, can I use that? is very cheap
other kind of vinegar is relly expensive and not easy to find
thanks rita


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Since posting that original message I have read in the meantime that we should be careful and very cautious of how much vinegar we use. If we want to kill weeds you can use vinegar at full strength.
Maybe 3 tablespoons in 5 litres is ok I am not sure as I have not tried it. If I do try it I will just test it on one rose bush.

Millie


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RE: Vinegar for black spots

Viki, the only published professional research on the use of a milk spray was for powdery mildew (only) on zucchinis and cucumbers by Dr. Wagner Bettiol in Brazil a couple of years ago. He reported success with a 10% spray of whole milk, but some rose gardeners have reported success against both powdery mildew and black spot with a 50% spray of low-fat milk. It doesn't hurt to experiment (in most cases), but don't expect any miracle cure.


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RE: Vinegar for black spots

Thank you everyone for the vinegar tips.
I will certainly try them. Right now I just have a few aphids to deal with.


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RE: Vinegar for black spots

KidHorn - I read here last year that Miracid, contrary to logical expectations, is quite base in solution. I should get some litmus paper and check it out for myself.

The weeds I've sprayed and poured vinegar on seemed totally unaffected. It may work on some, just not the ones I tried it on.


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RE: Vinegar for black spots

Everyone keeps talking about baking soda. Can someone post the recipe for that solution?
Deb


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RE: Vinegar for black spots

Just read any thread on the Cornell spray.


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RE: Vinegar for black spots

  • Posted by caitzs Seattle 7.5 (My Page) on
    Fri, Jun 28, 02 at 15:39

It's also in the FAQ. I could see vinegar working. It would basically make the leaf a pH that is not comfortable for the fungus. Baking soda does not work by changing the pH, though, but by directly killing the fungus (at least for powdery mildew).

Dark Rose, did the vinegar kill the black spot that was already there? Did it actually kill the black spot, not just preventing it from spreading further?


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Just a side note.. The vinegar that is used to kill plantlife is much more powerful than the grocery store variety (though even that will work full strength, but not as well) and is generally found at farmer co-ops and such.
I see people getting the strengths confused on another forum as well... Kind of like when the first person suggested using hydrogen peroxide for string algae in ponds, someone did a google search and came up with a potent form that is lethal to plants and animals, they came back screaming (all caps and exclamation points) "Do not use this or it will kill everything!!", whereas, the drug store variety we all have in our medicine chests is harmless.
Just wanted to make the point that there are 'professional strength' varieties of common household remedies that are extreemly toxic. The vinegar suggested here is the grocery store variety.


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Sooo... could we put baking soda in with the vinegar mixture for a more effective spray, or would that be overkill? (Ditto for the "will white vinegar work too" question.)


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Sure, putting baking soda and vinegar together could make an effective spray.. it probably won't make it to your Roses though, it'll more likely end up all over your kitchen floor.
Try it once, in a cup, over the sink;)


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Hahaaa!!! I forgot!

-Silly Angie


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On Friday, I tried the cider vinegar, dish detergent, horicultural oil idea on a rose that I recently planted. (Unbeknowst to me, I imported both JB's AND black spot on this rose). The BS was gone by Saturday, and I haven't seen any signs of a return! There are still a couple of JB's around, but not as many. Of course, I have been squishing them....


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I'm glad many of you are reporting the type and concentration of vinegar.

Around here, people use white distilled vinegar to kill the weeds that come up in the cracks of sidewalks. Takes a few days but soon they turn brown and can easily be brushed away.


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Help!
What is the exact recipe for using vinegar on black spot? I live in NE. When is the latest that I can use it? Also what can I add to the soil to make it more alkaline? Do roses like alkaline soil?


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I'm glad I read this thread, again... it was over a year ago last time, was surprised to see a response from myself :O in here from way back.

I've always had very good luck with Miracid, but I'll try that vinegar, there's some BS leaves I've neglected lately and always love to try new remedies.


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  • Posted by Kimm1 4a/5b-MI (My Page) on
    Mon, Nov 17, 03 at 8:05

Some of the stuff I've seen this past year about Black Spot seems to indiucate that it can exist in only in a fairly narrow pH range and anything you do to change the pH of the leaves will control it which explains why some people have success with vinegar and others have success with milk or baking soda. Keep in mind that this is still pretty preliminary and the researchers are not yet ready to publish.


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Well I've had a worse case of black spots ever since I have been growing roses this past summer. Tried almost everything but the chemicals.

We have been back to Florida now for over a month and have been using baking soda alternating with fish and seaweed. So far it seems to work as BS is not spreading.

I only have few roses here and most were all defoliatd except Belinda's Dream. They have started to improve since we have been back.

Cornell forumula did not work for me last year. It seems it needs to be alternated with something else at least that's what I am finding out.

Here is a link that might be useful: Angel Face


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I've had good luck with just washing off the leaves with a hose in the evening. There is no worry about anything staying damp overnight in Texas unless it is raining. And I would supposed that spraying with anything non-toxic that would wash off the blackspot spores would help. As well as altering the Ph should help.

The milk&water probably calls for a full-fat milk, because it forms a film over the leaf that prevents blackspot from taking hold. Works like CloudCover and other like products.
The fat in the milk is what forms the film so heavy whipping cream would be even better : )


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I tried this and it seems to have worked. I only grow roses that aren't susceptible to BS anyway but I almost always get a little this time of year. So last week I mixed up 2-3 tablespoons of white vinegar (didn't have cider) with a gallon of water and so far the BS appears to be stopped dead in it's tracks. I'm very pleased.


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to: Barb_OH
if you summarise -1 and +1 you will get total sum =0 the same is with baking soda and vinegar they have -/+ pH and the result will be neutral and effect also :-(

with all the best, e-le'phant


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RE: Vinegar for black spots

This is great information for those of us new to organic care of our gardens! I have a Madame Isaac Perriere that is suffering with BS right now. I will dose her with the vinegar and water spray in the morning... many thanks! Allison


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I tried a vinegar solution a few weeks back on some minis that were starting to show black spot. I was pleasantly surprised to find that it did seem to stop the bs.

I have been trying to find a non-chemical spray that works. After a disastrous season last year going cold turkey with the Cornell Formula I'm back to chemicals while I try to find an alternative.

After all the rain we've had a did spray with chemicals but the vinegar held the bs off for a week very nicely. I will be experimenting with it more.


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Is there a minimum time interval suggested between vinegar sprayings?


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Someone please respond to the minimum time interval question above! The spray of 1 tbsn grocery store apple cider vinegar per quart of water has done WONDERS for my poor spotty Madame Isaac! Go figure! I am going to try it on Sombrueil next, it has a touch of BS also
Allison


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I inherited a rose bush (hybrid tea, that's all I know) in moving into a new house last summer. A co-worker identified my black spot & suggested the baking soda, oil & dish soap remedy. It's not working. I will try the vinegar idea. Interval time would be helpful. I had been spraying the baking soda mixture every 3-4 days.


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"The fat in the milk is what forms the film so heavy whipping cream would be even better."

Sounds like the Atkins Diet for roses! :)


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Do not mix the vinegar and the baking soda when applying to roses for black spot. Logically, it seems correct. But as alluded to above, each will render the other ineffective.

From, "Growing Roses Organcially" by Barbara Wilde:

"Black spot spores need a near neutral pH to germinate, so anything you can do to lower the pH on the surface of your roses' leaves will help prevent the disease............."

Hence the suggestion for using vinegar.

Also: "Before air pollution control laws, black spot was less common in urban areas because acid rain (caused by sulfur containing pollutatnts disolved in rainwater to make acids)."

Hence the effectiveness of sulfur.

And: "........For instance a solution of skim milk applied to rose foliage will do a pretty good job of inhibitin g black spot. The theory is that as the milk spoils on the leaf surface, lactic acid and casein are produced. Lacitic acid lowers the pH, while the casein helps bind the milk solution to the leaves."

I don't know if cream is better for black spot than skim milk---I know vitamin E is found in the fat of milk, I'm betting on the side that lactic acid is not since her suggestion is for skim milk. And she suggests a ration of 9 parts water to one part skim milk.

Also: "At the other end of the pH range, sodium bicarbonate prevents fungal diseases by increasing the pH on the leaf, making it more alkaline."

She suggests 1 tablespoon per gallon of water, with a light hort. oil or veg oil, along with a squirt of mild dish soap to help it stick to the leaves.

She also warns that the sulfur products "adversely impacts some beneficial insects and mites, so consider it a last resort in your disease management program."


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On our roofs in Florida we get a type of mold. Companies are now putting tiny copper or zinc granules in the roof granules. This inhibits the mold growth and kills the spores. This was discovered by observing the totally mold free area under galvanized (zinc) roof vents.
I am trying an experiment this year. I wanted to soak copper in water and spray the solution on a test rose. Someone on the rose forum suggested that I make the solution more acid.
So I am taking a half-gallon of vinegar and added $4 in pennies. I will soak the pennies. Next I will pour a small amount of this solution in a hose end sprayer and spray a solution of 3 to 4 tablespoons per gallon. Any thoughts before I try the actual spraying?


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How long are you going to let the pennies soak? Also, it sounds like an awful lot of solution to make up for an experiment. How many roses are you going to try this on? I'm fascinated! Please post your results!

Good luck!!!


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RE: Vinegar for black spots

How to mix vinegar with baking soda;
Mix 1 teaspoon vinegar with 2 quarts water,
then add 1 teaspoon baking soda and 1 teaspoon canola oil. It will fizz much less this way. The canola oil helps the solution stick to the leaves.
This works wonderfully on my roses by stopping fungus from spreading. I was glad to read, above, that baking soda works by killing the fungus directly and not by changing the ph. because logically an acid and baking soda would tend to balance out each other on the ph scale. Luxrosa.


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"So I am taking a half-gallon of vinegar and added $4 in pennies. I will soak the pennies. Next I will pour a small amount of this solution in a hose end sprayer and spray a solution of 3 to 4 tablespoons per gallon. Any thoughts before I try the actual spraying? "

Keep in mind that pennies made after 1982(? I think that's when they changed them) are copper-coated zinc - and very thinly coated, I might add. So if you wanted more copper, you might want to either go with older pennies, or get a few short lenghts of copper pipe...


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RE: Vinegar for black spots

Rosieo,
Considering that rainwater washes over the galvanized vents (zinc) quickly, it may only require that the vinegar be placed on the coins and briskly shaken to get the copper.
(Copper and zinc both seem to work.)

I am using vinegar for two reasons:
1. Vinegar will speed the copper erosion
2. Rain water is more acid
3. I need the spray to have a PH of 5.
I have been doing a great deal of reading about copper toxicity. It seems that the actual amount of copper I would get from a week or more soaking would not be harmful to the plant. But if I wanted to be conservative I would soak over night.

I believe based on the link below that one important focus should be on getting a PH of 5. So I will add the solution to water in a hand sprayer until I reach PH5. I will definitely try this on one bush to make certain that the copper does not affect the plant over time.
Myenawine,
I did in fact think of the penny composition, however since copper seems to work and zinc seems to work, either from the pennies may be OK, as long as I dont a third chemical resulting from the zinc/copper combination.

I am in the hypothesis and test building phase. I will let you know the results.

Thanks

Here is a link that might be useful: PH and rose sprays


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On our roofs in Florida we get a type of mold. Companies are now putting tiny copper or zinc granules in the roof granules. This inhibits the mold growth and kills the spores. This was discovered by observing the totally mold free area under galvanized (zinc) roof vents.
I am trying an experiment this year. I wanted to soak copper in water and spray the solution on a test rose. Someone on the rose forum suggested that I make the solution more acid.
So I am taking a half-gallon of vinegar and added $4 in pennies. I will soak the pennies. Next I will pour a small amount of this solution in a hose end sprayer and spray a solution of 3 to 4 tablespoons per gallon. Any thoughts before I try the actual spraying?

Why not just buy a copper soap (fungicide) designed to prevent blackspot?


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Very interesting information about the vinegar spray.


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RE: Vinegar for black spots

I've noticed this thread goes back a couple of years. How about posting some success/failure with vinegar.


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RE: Vinegar for black spots

TRKL-
Ask and it shall be granted!

I'm completely new to growing roses, so I've been going the cheap route until I'm able to convince myself that I either know what I'm doing, or at least won't kill 'em right off the bat - the $3.99 bareroots from Walmart, etc.

Picked up a couple potted J&P's from Lowe's a couple weeks ago - pretty beat up, but salvageable. For those of you who care, Chrysler Imperial and (IIRC) Princess HTs and Iceberg Floribunda.

Anyway, the Iceberg started showing black spot virtually overnight. And not just a little bit- as we say down South, it was ate up with it- like 3/4 of the sparse number of leaves still on the plant. So I tried it: 1T yellow vinegar in 1qt of water, and I sprayed 'em all down - just to be safe. Then it rained off & on for 4 or 5 consecutive days. When I got back outside last weekend, not only had the black spot abated, but the plant had revived nicely (not attributing to the vinegar, of course) and is starting to leaf out and look really good.


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You didn't get any responses because no one wants to admit that it didn't/doesn't work.


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I've been alternating apple cider vinegar with baking soda sprays about every ten days since the spring pruning and something is working. Mostly the soda, I assume, but I am getting better results than I did last year with the soda spray alone. I've seen no mildew at all and the only rose that has had a serious problem with BS is Madame Alfred Carrire. Don't understand that... She was clean last year. This year the less resistant HTs, Bourbons, and Austins have needed only the occasional plucking of a spotty leaf and my other roses - including 17 of my 22 Austins - have been completely clean. Not a perfect result, but more than tolerable.


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Coincidence or not, threeducks, but since treating mine (once) a few weeks ago, it has been doing quite well. No recurrence yet, lots o' new growth and I got my first bloom a couple days ago.


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Interesting thread. I've read that the black spot spores reside in the soil. If you spray the soil around the rose with the treatment that worked on the plant itself, would it get rid of the blackspot for good? Or would the spores just remain until conditions were right again for it to spread?


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Does anybody know how often you can spray with the vinegar and water for bs? Is anyone else in MD experiencing a terrible bought with bs this time of year? I feel like I am fighting a losing battle here with humidity....


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I don't think you can control BS in Maryland with just vinegar. I tried all these organic treatments as Cornell, Neem, Milk, Rosa Flora and others. The only organic treatment that works half decent here is organic sulfur. But now it is too hot to use this spray. It only can be used when temperatures are below 85-90.
Think about your roses selection, if you really want to stay organic and have roses in MD. There are not that many choices, but still some roses can be grown no spray here. If you are interested I can post a list of roses that worked
for me as no spray. I do use sulfur on majority of my roses.

Olga


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RE: Vinegar for black spots

I've had a decent time controlling the blackspot on my roses with vinegar spray, BUT...the success has been quite dependent on how responsible I've been about respraying soon after a rain. If I go out later that day when the leaves are dry or the next morning, it seems to be pretty effective. If I let it go longer than that, forget it. We've had rain frequently enough that I haven't had to go the four weeks between sprayings that I've seen recommended in other places.

Olga, I'm interested in your list of roses that can go organic in MD, if you wouldn't mind posting it. Thanks!


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This list is based on my own experience (I grow roses for long time, last 10 years in MD), my sister's experience (she lives very close to me, doesn't spray at all) and my friend's experience (he lives in other MD county, also strictly no spray)

Climbers:
1. New Dawn -Some BS and Cercospora in the fall, but still thrives, blooms and grows well.
2. Awakening - the same comment as New Dawn
3. Parade - more BS then New Dawn, but still grows and blooms well. Doesn't loose it's vigor becayse of BS.
4. Illusion - very little BS, great climber. Blloms a lot, fragrant
5. Alberic Barbier - once blooming rambler, healthy as a horse
6. Mermaid - not a spec of desease
7. Westerland and Autumn Sunset - loose abourt 50% of their leaves. Still bloom and grow

Repeat blooming roses:

1. Knock Out -(as well as Pink and Blush) no desease
2. Darlow's Enigma - almost no desease
3. Carefree Sunshine -less then 10-15 % leaf loss. Blooms and grows well.
4. Morning Has Broken - less then 10 % leaf loss, great rose
5. Earth Song - Similar comment to Carefree Sunshine
6. Mutabilis - approx 50% leaf loss but still very vigorous and blooms non stop. Never looks ugly.
7. Lyda - The same comment as Mutabilis
8. Safrano - 50% leaf loss, still blooms, but a lot of winter dieback
9. Jaques Cartier - very little desease
10. Marie Pavie approx 30%-40% leaf loss from BS, still blooms and grows.
11. Belinda's Dream - some BS (20-30%). Blooms and grows well but a lot of dieback every winter and first flush almost always balls.
12. The Mayflower - some BS. Gets better with age. Blooms and grows well.
13. Souvenir de la Malmaison - get BS (30-40%) but blooms and grows well
14. Roseraie de l'Hy - no desease
15. Some other rugosas (old varieties with typical rugosa leaves, not morden rugosa hybrids)
16. Arethusa - get BS (30-40%) but blooms and grows well, some die back
17. La Vesuve- get BS (30-40%) but blooms and grows well, some dieback
18.Georgetown Tea -get BS (30-40%) but blooms and grows well, some dieback
Once Bloomers:(There are many healthy once bloomers for MD, they grow and perform absolutly wonderful here, really carefree, highly recomend)
1. Konigin von Danemark Alba, no desease
2. Ispahan - Damask , no desease
3. Charles de Mills -gallica, no desease
4. Belle de Crecy -gallica, no desease
5. Belle sans Flatterie- gallica, no desease
6. Alice Viena -gallica, no desease
7. Jeny Duval -gallica, no desease
8. Tuscany Superb - gallica, no desease
9. Duc de Guich - gallica, no desease
Many other gallicas, I just leasted my favorite ones.
10 Felicite Parmentier -some BS (not much) and PM (when young), but still vigorous, blooms have unbelievable fragrance, looks good

I probably forgot something some others, but it is probably enough for now.

Good luck.
Olga



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RE: Vinegar for black spots

I have been using vinegar on my roses since we moved in 6 weeks ago. A couple of my roses (don't know the varieties) seem to have responded, but the majority haven't changed. A couple of them are even worse than before.

I am contemplating replacing them with disease resistant varieties. As this is my first time growing roses, I am not at all sure of how to go about doing this. I have about 20 different roses, but if bs is in the soil as someone posted earlier, won't I be exposing my new roses? Just how resistant are the resistant varieties?


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Wow, this helps me a lot! I dont have any roses at the moment but i have about 10 or so seedlings that have came up and i want to root one or two of my mom's roses that i really like, i am going to use the 3 tbsp. of vinegar to 5 liters of water, my only question is how often do you spray? once a week?

Thanks!


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I just realised that i was going to put on the whole five litres of water... can some one please state how often with how much were supposed to hit the roses with the vinegaar and water solution?
Thank you i really hope this works my only four bushes are wreaked with black spot!


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Hi,

I've just decided to try this today. I put 4 T. of cider vinegar to 1 gal of H2O(rainwater) + 1 T. vegetable oil and a squirt of dish soap. I plan to use it every 4-7 days, until the black spot is gone. I'll let you know if it works!
I decided to try this mix from the mixes I saw in the thread. With all the rain we've had this spring(much needed!)black spot has hit a few of my bushes hard. I didn't know what it was at first. Some of my bushes hardly have a spot on them but my climbing roses have been hit hard. One has lost most of its leaves, almost overnight. I really hope this works! I need to mulch with compost too.


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RE: Vinegar for black spots

Is it best to wait to see if you get BS? Or start early i the season. I kind of want not to spray at all. But if so, do you rinse off the vinegar solution or leave it on?


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RE: Vinegar for black spots

I spray once a week, or after the leaves get wet. You need to leave the vinegar solution on the leaves. Black Spot needs a certain PH range to grow. Vinegar works by raising the PH of the leaves so BS doesn't continue to grow, vinegar doesn't stop the BS the raised PH does. This is why you shouldn't use both the baking soda formula and vinegar at the same time. Besides the obvious science experiment that would create.

I get very good results with vinegar, but I also select roses that are BS resistant.


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I have a terrible infection of leaf spot on a hedge rose (J&P Yellow Simplicity) which am, now, 99% sure is black spot. I lost two plants over the winter then we had a late frost which weakened the others. One has lost all leaves and another only has one stem with three leaves on it which are spotted and yellowed. The cane is yellow too.

As you imagine I am more than a little distraught. It was a tremendous amount of work ... 33 plants total. I did not know the BS stuff was that dangerous.
Last year there were spots but they are brown and not like the pictures I was able to find. A couple of days ago I found this:
http://ohioline.osu.edu/hyg-fact/3000/3072.html
Then, last night, this thread.

This AM I used an Ortho Dial-a-Spray sprayer and a bottle of distilled white vinegar to apply the vinegar and water solution at 1.5 ounces per gallon. ( That's equivalent to 3 tablespoons per gallon. )
I sprayed them twice ( to get both sides I can reach ) and the ground too. Pretty soaked but not to the point of having standing water.

I surely hope this works 'cause I cannot repeat the planting ...will have to rip them out and put up a 'real' fence.

Should I cut off any yellowed canes? Can I save the plant that has no leaves by cutting it back to the bud union?


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RE: neognomic Vinegar for black spots

Scratch the one plant with three leaves. The leaves are gone and all that is there is the yellowed stem/cane.
:(


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RE: Vinegar for black spots

Hi

I don't have cider vinager, just plain white vinager.

I made a small 541 ml bottle recipe is.

1/2 teaspoon of white vinager
1 teaspoon of canola oil
4 drops of dish soap
balance filled with water

With living in Vancouver BC, Canada (Pacific Northwest area) and all the rain we still get in the spring. I do have roses that are very suspible to BS.

I have now tried this recipe in the past 2 weeks. I have noticed today that the rose bush I sprayed 50% of the BS is almost gone and no new BS is showing up on the leaves that never had any in the first place.

I am really happy to see this working much better then any chemicals i have ever used in the past. I hate using chemicals on my roses because my bunnies just love eating my rose from my garden.

So not to have to use chemicals on my rose I normally pick off all the leaves with BS, to times there was no leaves left on the rose bush. Everything has to start a new.

It looks like this year I will not have any bare roses at all this yr.

I wish I had found this forum along time ago and know about this recipe. Becuase the rose I have always had trouble with is the same rose bush my bunnies just love the most, is the Dr. Brownell and is chrome yellow with a great scent.

So nice now I just have to give the rose a good wash under water and know the vinager, soap and oil will just wash off. Where if I had to use chemicals they can't get their favorite rose all season long, of worry I am make my bunnies very sick or poison them.

Thanks everyone you have all been a great help, and now have a soluition for this BS problem and to my bunnies health as well.

They are just going to love you this year because they will get thier favortive rose this year.

Janice


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RE: Vinegar for black spots

For the person trying the copper coins in a water then spraying with it:
People used to put pennies in fish tanks to get rid of disease. It works too if it doesn't kill the fish.
I would be concerned at $4 dollars worth even of new pennies because if one penny worked in a fish tank it seems like 400 would be quite toxic.


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RE: Vinegar for black spots

Fascinating thread! I am trying to choose resistant roses since I live in a humid area. I have 2 rugosas- so far vigorous and disease-free, and 1 climber, and I just ordered a 2nd climber. I once lost 200.00 worth of roses to mildew and black spot- they were all hybrid teas.
I had heard of the baking soda recipe before but not the vinegar one or milk. I hope I won't have to use any of them but I've written them down, just in case. Do any of these sprays work on mildew? Or what organic recipe would you use for mildew? Brandy


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RE: Vinegar for black spots

Thats what I have started too Randy, bought many Kordes roses and so far no blackspots or mildew, although my Elegant Fairy Tale has thrips now. Wonder if vinegar would work for that with Horticultural Oil. Will try that late this afternoon. I have Bragg's Apple Cider Vinegar which was used for losing few pounds but so far am not successful maybe I will have better luck using it for roses.

Since I started this thread way back didn't realize it's still going on but want to let you know I am alternating with my sprayings. Baking powder does work for rust it seems but not for blackspots at this location anyway as last year my roses were covered with blackspots. It's still early in the season hope they stay healthy looking.

Another new recipe I came across is mixing ASPIRIN 325mg, uncoated, generic aspirin, dissolved in 1/4tsp vinegar, added to a gallon of water, plus a tsp dish soap will also stimulate "systemic acquired resistance" in your roses. (and tomatoes, and bee balm and...everything else in your garden!) Foliar spray once every 3 weeks.

Maybe I will try that one and just add one teaspoon of Dormant Oil for the thrips.

Millie

Here is a link that might be useful: My new 2007 Roses


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RE: Vinegar for black spots

Vinegar was a waste of time. Two weeks and no change except the plants were more infected and as I mentioned before, one more appeared to be on the way to death.
So I stopped that foolhardy approach.
I used the NEEM oil extract(70%) I had purchased, same way as the vinegar(in hose end sprayer), and problem was gone by the third day. ALL plants with leaves had healthy leaves with no visible BS.
It also removed the aphids... and it took care of the powdery mildew on the groundcover roses.

It also worked in the garden for aphids on the tom's and some kind of bug and fungi on the cuc's.

Neem product is approved for organic growers.
E.g., see http://www.neem4organicfarming.com/

Unfortunately it does not kill or chase off ants or squirrels ...

I have since found that these "Simplicity" plants are advertised as "hardy" but J&P fails to mention the BS. Now I know why. They are terrible for BS which means I have a once a week - 10 day spraying for the rest of my (or their) life from March until October- NOTHING simple about that!
WoW: NEVER buy Simplicity Hedge Roses from J&P if you are in the South(cannot speak for dryer areas). ...


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RE: Vinegar for black spots

This thread is 5.5 years old! I keep good issues of gardening mags that long too. I enjoyed reading this thread.


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RE: Vinegar for black spots

I am about to spray my roses with vinegar mix(2-3 tablespoons per gallon). Should I be adding anything else to this-ie. ivory soap, oil; and if so how much?
Thanks for any help!


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RE: Vinegar for black spots

Well I tried three times now Apple Cider Vinegar June 22nd, July 13th and July 27th and no blackspots so far this year. The mixture was 2 325 Bayer aspirins dissolved in 2 oz Apple Cider Vinegar with 2 oz fish Fertilizer and a squirt of dishwashing soap in a 2 gallon sprayer.

Now if I could only find something to get rid of aphids not that I have many but even on few buds it's too many. They keep coming back no matter what I spray with. Last time I used Murphy's Oil with Listerine yellow mouthwash.

Ecco. Over the years I have seen different versions used of soap some use a squirt few drops and others go for a tablespoon. Try few drops and next time increase to a teaspoon and if no burn shows up keep it at that. Canola oil worked for me so did Horticultural oil too. It does need to be repeated.
Millie


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RE: Vinegar for black spots

does vinegar burn the rose?


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RE: thrips

does this vinegar works for controlling thrips? The thrips are driving me crazy at the moment.


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RE: Vinegar for black spots

"Well I tried three times now Apple Cider Vinegar June 22nd, July 13th and July 27th and no blackspots so far this year. The mixture was 2 325 Bayer aspirins dissolved in 2 oz Apple Cider Vinegar with 2 oz fish Fertilizer and a squirt of dishwashing soap in a 2 gallon sprayer."

I live in zone 5 and I'd say this year was the best year for blackspot I've seen, so it may not be the vinegar but also the weather pattern. I don't spray at all and my one BS prone plant didn't really have any problem until mid to later August, whereas usually it will begin showing a problem in late June but July for sure. Probably not coincidentally, we had the driest June and July that I can recall...it was a moderate draught. And August was the wetter month, so this is the exact opposite of the usual summer in the midwest!

I think that may have played a large role in BS for this year.



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RE: Vinegar for black spots

jimbojimmy. The apple cider did not burn the leaves on my roses and no it does not help with thrips nor rust either.

I did get mildew on couple of roses just recently and sprayed with baking soda and it took care it.


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RE: Vinegar for black spots

Hello Everyone!

What a great thread--long may it live!!

I'm down here in St. Pete-mid-central Florida-and the Fall has been wetter than the Summer (usually it's the reverse.)

This is the second year I've kept roses in containers on my apartment balcony; it's been a rousing success I must say. All on Fortuniana rootstock--Europeana, Love Potion and Bronze Star enjoy the eastern exposure and near-constant south breeze of the 2nd floor.

As organic_appliquelady in Vancouver, BC mentioned, I've practiced the same style of housekeeping--picking off all of the BS infected leaves and leaving it at that. This seemed to work well by itself last year when all I had was Europeana, but this year--wasn't enough to stop the dreaded BS.

At first, tried regular sprays for maintenance, but started to feel concerned about all the non-friendly stuff I was using. Plus, was concerned about neighbors safety too...organic is the way to go!

I fell in love in Love Potion when I saw her at the nursery a few weeks ago; although she obviously had a case of BS, she looked to be a strong, well developed plant that was tidy and shapely in appearance.

At first tried Rose Pride...not much luck. The poor dear kept dropping leaves quicker that she could make them, yet valiantly was continuing to bloom (roses are some tough plants!)

Next, tried the recipe that organic_appliquelady applied:

1/2 teaspoon of white vinager (increased to 1.5 tsp)
1 teaspoon of canola oil (I had only olive oil on hand)
4 drops of dish soap (increased to 12 drops)
balance filled with water

and I happened to have a small, 22 oz. spray bottle that worked great for this recipe; it made enough to treat all 3 of my roses. I sprayed just after sunset on 11/15 and said a prayer.

Well, here it is only Saturday, and Love Potion hasn't dropped any more leaves & the others don't show a further spread either.

Another treatment that caught my attention was the Neem oil--will be getting some of that to alternate as preventative maintanence if the above recipe works.

Thank you so much everyone for sharing your ideas!!

Susan


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RE: Vinegar for black spots

And a sprinkle of corn meal for good measure today :-)

Susan


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RE: Vinegar for black spots

I used some thing call indoor pharm(with pure Rosemary oil. I hope it works.On my Pachypodium Hybrid.


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RE: Vinegar for black spots

Are these ratios correct? Can you use the vinegar rinse on ANY plant with mildew or just roses?

Powdery Mildew
The Vinegar Rinse
2 tablespoons white or cider vinegar (5 percent)
1 gallon water

Soak the entire plant, making sure to get the undersides of the leaves. Spray in the morning. Apply once a week as needed until the weather warms up.

Black Spot
Mix ordinary fat-free milk with water in a 1:1 ratio and apply it using a spray bottle. Spray the solution directly onto the clean leaves of your roses.

Basic Baking Powder spray
Mix 3 tablespoons of baking soda into 1 gallon
of water and spray the roses.


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RE: Vinegar for black spots

This recipe I used that stopped BS in its tracks which is also good to get rid of thrips and other insects.

1 Tablespoon veggy oil
1 gallon unclorinated water
1 Tbsp apple cider vinegar
1 tsp brown listerine(I know this isnt organic, its what the insects dont like)
1 Tbsp liquid Soap--NOT DETERGENT. Some dish soaps say detergent in really small print somewhere on the bottle.
1 1/2 Tblsp baking soda
large spray pump.

Add vinegar at the end so it doesnt bubble over.


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RE: Vinegar for black spots

I currently don't have black spot, but should I be spraying as a preventative measure?


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RE: Vinegar for black spots

Organic gardening is about not spraying stuff around because you think maybe, possibly, you might get some insect pest or plant disease. If your roses are growing in a good, healthy soil you should not need any prophlactic sprays for prevention.


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