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Looking for Roses that are TRULY Resistant to Balck Spot

Posted by Nininanoo 6 (My Page) on
Thu, Jan 31, 02 at 19:42

Looking for Roses that are TRULY resistant to Black Spot.

I was hoping that you could let me know what indivdual roses are TRULY resistant to black spot. I live in Massachusetts which is zone 6. I started planting Griffith Buck roses three (3) years ago when I read that many of them are resistant to black spot (B.S.).

Some of the Bucks I have planted for there B.S. resistance are: Priarie Sunrise, Paloma Blanca, Sjulin and Pearlie Mae. My favorite is Pearlie Mae as it just keeps blooming with 4,5, and 6 flowers at a time. I have two (2) more on order El Catala and Carefree Beauty, they are both listed as resistant to black spot. As I have planted most of the Buck roses that are listed as black spot resistant I am looking to find some more Gems for my garden, that are highly resistant to black spot.

Also, does anyone know were I can purchase Pippas Song its a Buck thats listed as B.S. resistant but no one seems to have it?

I have heard that the Romanticas are quite disease resistant but being that there are quite a few roses diseases, I was hoping to get some solid first hand experience from other rose growers as to which fair best against black spot.

Romanticas:

Abbaye de Clung
Auguste Renoir
Eden Climber
MEIrevolt (were it can be purchased)
MEIvamo (were it can be purchased)
MEIviolin (were it can be purchased)
Polka
Toulouse-Lautrec

Of course well out surfing for the Romanticas I came across a hundred others that I would like to have, if anyone can tell me how they hold up to black spot I would really appreciate it. Also, if you have any other suggestions I would welcome them, I am parcial to Tea roses. Thank you.

Orange N Lemons
Living Easy
Fragrant Plum
Princess De Monaco
Gold Medal
Moon Shadow Purple
Centenial Star
Double Delight
Honor
Lynn Anderson
Judy Garland
Bahia
Hiroshimas Children
Jane Pauley
New Zealand
Origami
Octoberreast
Singing in the rain

Thank you in advance.


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Looking for Roses that are TRULY Resistant to Balck Spot

I live in black spot heaven (hot & humid summers/zone 5)and I don't spray with chemicals...I have Auguste Renoir and it is very bs resistant, but notorious for balling. Too bad as its a beauty and the blossoms are extremely long lasting. The leaves are very shiney and have very heavy substance which I think might help with the resistance factor. I also have Frederick Mistral and its bs resistant. Romantica Polka is basically bs free for me.
My Rugosa's & Ramblers don't get bs but sometimes powdery mildew on the Ramblers. Many people think that rugosa's are just single flowered bushy, thorny roses but there are many modern Rugosa's out there that are very beautitful and most are highly fragrant and disease free. Check out Explorer roses too.
I have one Polyantha, The Fairy, that is very clean.
I have found Hybrid Teas and English roses to be the worst for black spot. I basically don't grow those anymore, other than a few select English roses I purchased in 2001 because I heard they were more hardy and disease resistant in cold zones. I don't think I will ever buy another Hybrid Tea rose although I have Double Delight and its done fairly well with no spraying. At least its not nude at the end of the summer. Looks like you have quite a few HT's on your list and if you don't spray you might want to try other classes of roses.
I have 4 Bucks (new in 2001) and it seems to run about 50/50 on the ones I have...Hawkeye Belle and Prairie Princess being the best so far.
I believe they were bred for hardiness more so than disease resistance. Since many of them have Hybrid Tea roses in their parentage you might want to be selective on those. Just a thought.
You might to consider Generosa roses and Old Garden Roses as well... especially Alba's, Gallica's & Moss roses...but always be selective as even some of these will bs on you.
Do you know about the The Me Find Roses website? It has details on roses, their parentage, suppliers etc. Do your homework, learn from the garden forums and you will be able to find some roses you don't have to babysit to keep looking good. Good Luck!

Here is a link that might be useful: Help Me Find Roses


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RE: Looking for Roses that are TRULY Resistant to Balck Spot

I'm in CT and from what I've seen in Elizabeth Park Rose Garden and my own is.

Purple Pavement aka.Rotes Meer
Knock Out
Martha's Vinyard
Midas Touch
Playboy
Livin Easy
Belinda's Dream
Westerland
Lafter
August Renoir
Frederick Mistral


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RE: Looking for Roses that are TRULY Resistant to Balck Spot

I've been on a quest to find roses that are resistant to BS and these are what I've ordered for this spring and this is what I've found...

Knockout - This is probably the rose that is most consistently reported to be free of BS. There is a similar rose called carefree sunshine, which is supposed to be a yellow knockout. Not many places offer carefree sunshine.
Belinda's Dream, Playboy, Trumpeter, Sun Flare, Sunsprite, Old Master - Most people on the forums state these roses are carefree and tend not to get BS. I've found some studies on the internet that state they are very prone to BS. I don't know what to believe.
Livin Easy - This is reported to be very BS resistant. I've read that it is BS resistant in some areas and not BS resistant in other areas. I've heard that where I live, it tends to get BS. Easy Going is a yellow livin easy.
New Dawn - Consistently reported to be very resistant to BS.
Altissimo - Supposed to be BS resistant.

My conclusion is if a rose isn't reported as being BS resistant, you can bet it will get BS. If a rose is reported to be BS resistant, it's a crap shoot.


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RE: Looking for Roses that are TRULY Resistant to Balck Spot

I just moved to this area (Tyler, TX) from from humid Houston. I started (last year) with only 3 roses--Belinda's Dream, Gruss An Aachen, and Frances Dubriel. I did nothing to them at all. None of them ever had a day of black spot (what a change). This year I have bought seven more (which I keep carting in and out of the garage because the bed wasn't ready, and the weather won't settle down--75 to 17--what's that? Anyway, we'll see what happens to these. I'm seriously considering Field's suggestion if I can convince myself that the residual oil won't be a problem in the summer.


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RE: Looking for Roses that are TRULY Resistant to Balck Spot

I saved a previous thread from the rose forum called No spray modern roses for Humid Areas. Add Yours! Let me know if you want me to email it to you as I haven't been able to call it up.


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RE: Looking for Roses that are TRULY Resistant to Balck Spot

  • Posted by Luanne z9,Richmond CA (My Page) on
    Tue, Mar 12, 02 at 21:51

Loretta,Here's my list of the most resistant--nobody perfect even in CA(joke). Ingrid Bergman,Blanc Double de Coubert, Frances Dubreuil, New Zealand, Yves Piaget, Toulous Lautrec, Margaret Merrill,Centennial Star, Sutter's Gold, Duet,Red Radiance,Lyda Rose, Ernest P. Morse. Double Delight had a small manageable amount. I used copper fungicidal soap. Its the canes that carry the spores so that's where you want any organic sprays to go. Remember a healthy well watered, and fed rose with enough light and good air circulation has the best chance.
I've planted Altissimo and Sombreuil but its too soon to tell. Gertrude Jeykll has also behaved her fragrant self.
Luanne


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RE: Looking for Roses that are TRULY Resistant to Balck Spot

If you would like a link to Buck's roses with nursery listings here it is

http://www.ag.iastate.edu/centers/cad/industrysource.html

It is a wonderful site and informative also.


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RE: Looking for Roses that are TRULY Resistant to Balck Spot

First I would like to THANK EVERYONE for there help.
I have found that you can read what a roses is suppose to be like all you want but nothing beats someones first hand experience.

THANKS AGAIN EVERYONE.

Here is what I purchased to try this year from everyones advice:

Livin Easy
Orange N Lemons
Carefree Beauty
El Catala
Alhamod
Lynn Anderson (had to get this one it's my cousins name)

I will let everyone know this fall how they all did.

Some of the roses I got during the last two (2) years that I have found to be resistant to the evil Black Spot (at least in MA):

Old Timer:
Coral/peach about 3 feet high and a profuse bloomer all summer long.

Pearlie Mae:
Apricot about 3 feet in height and also, a heavy bloomer all summer long. At the very end of the season Septemberish it got a VERY little black spot but through out the summer it was clean and I don't spray, ever.

Honey Sweet:
Pink not fully mature in height yet only bloomed a couple of times. This may be do to the fact that it is still quite small but I didn't have any Black spot issues here. I will let you know how it goes this Summer now that I have this nice forum (Gardenweb.com) to speak with fellow Roses Gardeners.

Les Sjulin
Last Summer was it's first year, also, and I could only get quart size in this too, however, everything I ordered this year is gallon size so that should speed things up. It did have a spot or two (2) of black spot but I am holding of judgement till this summer, hopefully it will do better now that it's had a whole year to settle in.

Though I always want summer to last forever I, also, can't wait to fall so I can let you all know how things do against the ever Dreaded Black Spot.


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RE: Looking for Roses that are TRULY Resistant to Balck Spot

Oranges and lemons got the shovel a few years ago for black spot. So did New Zealand. I'm going to try the Cornell mixture this year and I'll let you all know how it goes.


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RE: Looking for Roses that are TRULY Resistant to Balck Spot

  • Posted by Luanne z9,Richmond CA (My Page) on
    Thu, Mar 28, 02 at 21:15

I've had 3 New Zealands over time and different houses, very little bs,many, many flowers and that perfume...Makes you wonder what it is doesn't it?I'd never be without her.
Luanne


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RE: Looking for Roses that are TRULY Resistant to Balck Spot

Another vote here for Westerland--blackspot FREE here in my little patch of BS heaven outside of DC.
Almost clean have been Lavendar Lassie, Mutabilis, the Fairy, and Old Blush. They'll get little spots here and there but it doesn't seem to get anyworse, they never defoliate and bloom like crazy all summer.


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RE: Looking for Roses that are TRULY Resistant to Balck Spot

Check this out.

Here is a link that might be useful: Jeans List


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RE: Looking for Roses that are TRULY Resistant to Balck Spot

Disease resistant roses is the best start. But, frankly, I think it is a shot in the dark most every time.
For Example:
I have had 2 Belinda's Dream rose bushes that I purchased at Calloway's 2 years ago. The best 2 dadgum bushes I have ever had! No blackspot or any other problems what so ever.

Yet, this Spring I purchased 2 more Belinda's Dream bushes from Neil Sperry's Garden Show. They both have a little blackspot and a few yellow leaves.

Go figure!
~Michael


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RE: Looking for Roses that are TRULY Resistant to Balck Spot

My theory is that a rose will do well for a year or two until the right blackspot strain moves in, or perhaps the blackspot evolves to beat the particular resistance that that rose has.

Baby Love was clean the first year, now it gets a little. Same with Autumn Sunset. I've been buying roses from all over the country. Some arrive with blackspot on them, so I'm sure by now my yard is a perfect petri dish of blackspot strains combining and recombining to form a blackspot super strain ready to defeat any rose.


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RE: Looking for Roses that are TRULY Resistant to Balck Spot

Yarnover, you make an excellent point. Many varieties are clean for a year or so and then show their true health. My theory on that also includes the fact that they have been grown for 2 years under optimal conditions in a field with full sun, regulated water and most likely sprayed. They seem to maintain that strength for a season. If you notice, when a new rose hits the market people will rave about its disease resistance - for a while - then the fungus stories start


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RE: Looking for Roses that are TRULY Resistant to Balck Spot

It seems we all have a yard full of blackspot. It must be up to the roses health and such to whether or not it will have problems.

This may not help much but...
Blackspot resides in the canes, right? When it comes time to do the late winter pruning, prune them short to get below the infected spots on the canes. As far as I know, this is the only way to rid a rose of blackspot. As long as the disease has not made it too far down the canes.

~Michael


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RE: Looking for Roses that are TRULY Resistant to Balck Spot

I live in SW Oklahoma and havn't sprayed in the last three years. The following have shown very little blackspot and seem to be the best of 150 or so I have tried over the years. Good Luck and Happy Roseing. There is also a thread on the Roses Forum. If any one needs any information on any of these email me.

Low maintenance roses

Wildfang
Bermuda Kathleen
St. Davids
Smiths Parish
Vincent Godsiff
Belindas Dream
Chanelle
Carefree Beauty
Prairie Harvest
Folksinger
Pearlie Mae
Prarie Lass
Earth Song
The Fairy
Royal Edward
Marthas Vineyard
Lafter
Maria Stern
Dornroschen
Baby Love
Mermaid
Baby Mermaid
Scarlet Meidiland
Pink Surprise
Alexander Mckenzie
Applejack


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RE: Looking for Roses that are TRULY Resistant to Balck Spot

Resistant does not mean "immune". Even resistant roses are going to show SOME blackspot from time to time, with good and bad years. The question is whether or not it will weaken the plant or disfigure it to the point where you no longer want to look at it.

I grow some of the earlier mini hybrids, such as Baby Betsy McCall, Perla de Alcanada, Cinderella, Little Chief, and Red Imp mixed in a bed of herbs where I don't want to spray. Each summer these mini roses lose up to 50% of their leaves to blackspot, but just keep right on blooming and the plants keep getting bigger every year. The blackspot doesn't seem to slow them down. The later minis have a stronger dose of hybrid tea blood in them and don't thrive as well.


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RE: Looking for Roses that are TRULY Resistant to Balck Spot

New to growing roses - this is my second year - but last year I purchased a rose called "Goldilocks" from Home Depot (end of the season sale). This year, due to the very wet weather and then subsequent humidity, BS has all but made me go insane. It is on all of my roses to some extent (sometimes very bad), but Goldilocks has NOT HAD ONE SPOT. I cannot believe it. It is full of buds and covered in shiny green foliage.

Hope that helps.


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RE: Looking for Roses that are TRULY Resistant to Balck Spot

I'm new at this, so all my roses are in their first season in my garden. I've had a terrible time especially with First Prize. Many of the roses have picked up BS from her. Out of 24 roses planted I have to say that Outta the Blue is definitely the best all around winner. Great growth, great blooms and frequency, and great shape to the bush. No black spot, no mildew. Another goody has been Toulouse Lautrec. Although a little slower to rebloom (perhaps because this was a bare root plant)it too shows no sign of disease. Another Romantica doing very well is Sonia Rykiel (although I think there may be a thrips problem here). I also have to put in a big GOOD WORD for Paul Neyron. He's shown a little mildew, but it's controllable, not like BS. He's grown almost 5' in one season, has the most fabulous blooms, and is filling out greatly. I also have seen no BS on Knockout. As for teas, Queen Elizabeth and Just Dreamy are doing very well. Hope this helps.


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RE: Looking for Roses that are TRULY Resistant to Balck Spot

The Romantica, 'Eden' has turned out to be a bs magnet for me, while other Romanticas are not.


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RE: Looking for Roses that are TRULY Resistant to Balck Spot

I subscribe to Neil Sperry's Gardens Magazine. The Author, Field Roebuck, talked about the 117 different varieties that were tried in the test bed. They planted them in heavy alkaline soils, never prayed them, no fertilizers, no amendments and additives. Only 11 roses withstood the harsh TX weather. They are all BS resistant. They are the following:
Belinda's Dream
Caldwell Pink
Climbing Pinkie
Else Poulsen
The Fairy
Katy Road Pink
Knock Out
Marie Daly
Mutabilis
Perle d'Or
Sea Foam


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RE: Looking for Roses that are TRULY Resistant to Balck Spot

I live in MD. Much different climate than TX and in my yard Belinda's Dream and Katy Road Pink get a decent amount of BS. The Fairy and Knock Out are BS free.


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RE: Looking for Roses that are TRULY Resistant to Balck Spot

One poster mentioned that it was hard to find Carefree Sunshine. My source this year was Jung's Seed. I have bought several roses from them and their quality has been over all good. Shipping is very reasonable compared to other nurseries (or should I say, resellers?) as well.

Carefree Sunshine is one of the nicest first-year rose plants I've ever had. Vigorous, full of buds and nice foliage. And no blackspot so far.


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RE: Looking for Roses that are TRULY Resistant to Balck Spot

Re: Plants infecting others.

If you have established roses in your garden, one isn't going to "infect" the other. I have had one rose completely defoliate from blackspot and it's neighbor, 2 feet away, didn't have a spot. Genetics will be the major factor in determining who gets blackspot and who doesn't (among different roses in the same bed). After genetics, location is going to make a difference, but genetics is key. I have Dr. Huey growing under a Colorado Blue Spruce that never has any blackspot.

If you bring new roses home, however, that could be a source of a serious infection. I had that problem a lot last summer. From now on I'm just mail ordering my new roses bareroot, no more potted roses from nurseries for me.

Re: Resistant roses

Glowing Peace has been great in my garden for the last couple years. Very little disease, if any. Kardinal is a red HT that is reported to have very good disease resistance. I planted it this spring and so far, so good. The same with Midas Touch, a yellow HT.

BTW I haven't sprayed anything this year. No Cornell formula, no synthetic fungicide, etc.


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RE: Looking for Roses that are TRULY Resistant to Balck Spot

ThreeDucks,

I agree that people are wrong to claim that one spotty bush was the source of their problems.

But if you look back at Yarnover's post above, he makes the point that there are different strains of black spot that affect different varieties differently. This is correct and it is basic to a big black spot research project underway in Britain. I remember expressing skepticism about this on the forums some years ago, but now I think there is no doubt about it. So it is the genetics of the rose AND the genetics of black spot strains in your garden that affect resistance. Yarnover is also right to say we may add new strains when we buy new roses. This can happen with bareroots as well as potted roses.

I have had Sunsprite for 10 years, and it just got its first black spot this year. I think this may be because I have been handling a lot of foliage in a large public garden.

Some varieties get BS in every garden; these are susceptible to many strains.

Some varieties seem to have a "brittle" kind of resistance, in that they are immune to most BS but then get it badly when the wrong strain comes around. Anecdotally, this seems to be true of some recent orange and yellow varieties with glossy foliage, such as Baby Love.

Other varieties seem to have a broader and deeper kind of resistance so that, while not totally immune, they are reported as fairly resistant by everyone.

So these lists are a good start, but not at all foolproof.

Michael


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RE: Looking for Roses that are TRULY Resistant to Balck Spot

Iceberg has always been free of blackspot in my garden. Brilliant pink iceberg is new this year and it has been problem free as well. I also like my new Paul Bocuse, one of the Generosas. We've had some unusually wet weather here lately and there's been no BS on him and he's never been sprayed. Big beautiful blush color blooms that stand up well to the weather, too. I'd really recommend this one.


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RE: Looking for Roses that are TRULY Resistant to Balck Spot

I have never sprayed or had any black spot on my Graham Thomas (Austin).


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RE: Looking for Roses that are TRULY Resistant to Balck Spot

Ok, it's been hot, and humid and the rains have been sporadic. What's clean right now:
Heritage
Hawkeye Belle
The Fairy
Ambridge Rose
New Dawn (but I got this from Heirloom & it only seems to bloom once -- is it really New Dawn?)
Eden
Darlow's Enigma
Awakening
Most of the other ploants have varying degrees of Black spot , but most are still blooming
Susan


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RE: Looking for Roses that are TRULY Resistant to Balck Spot

That's a very perceptive observation, that a lot of roses do well in their first season - whether it's residual systemics, or the black spot varietal that colonizes that rose hasn't yet found it - and then on following years they do worse and worse. I've seen that a lot. Otherwise I would tell you that my hybrid musks are superbly resistant, but this being the first year I've had them it's really too soon to tell. The albas and rugosas are very, very resistant where I live (lower Midwest).


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RE: Looking for Roses that are TRULY Resistant to Balck Spot

After 4-6 years, my best roses for bs resistance are:
New Dawn
Awakening
White Dawn (notice a trend there?)
Heritage
Colette
Marie Pavie
Henry Hudson (rugosa, gets spider mites instead,but never out of bloom)

I'm about to shovel prune Mary Rose and it's sister Winchester Cathedral that were supposed to be very disease resistant. They are almost nude and the remaining leaves all have bs.


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RE: Looking for Roses that are TRULY Resistant to Balck Spot

Well I told you back in the spring that I would let everyone know how I made out with this years selections using every ones helpful advice.

The surprise of the season is the blue light special Old Timer a very profuse pink tea rose for $8.00 at Kmart. Though it is grafted, however, that has never been an issue for me, though I am now predominately buying rooted roses.

The following are rotted roses that Ive had for two (2) to three (3) years that are resistant to black spot in my area. Pearlie Mae has been a continuously blooming tea rose. Palm Blanc has, also, been black spot free for me. Honey Sweet though still small as I purchased it at quart size (I buy gallon size now) has beautiful salmon colored flowers. Though it has not been the heavy bloomer that the other two (2) have been. Im attributing this to size and hope that will change, as it gets bigger. All three (3) of the above named roses are Griffin Buck roses.

Now onto what I purchased for this year with the assistance of you all on garden web. Living Easy and Orange & Lemon are both doing exceptionally well. I am especially pleased with Orange and Lemon as Lambs Ear, which defiantly hampers air circulation, surrounds it; yet its leaves remain clean. Another Buck roses thats doing well for me is Carefree Beauty. None of them have bloomed much, however, this is pretty normal for me regarding first year roses.

All right youve heard the good now onto the bad. Never purchase a rose simply because its named after your cousin, Lynn Anderson bombed. All of the leaves where infected and dropped of, a new batch of leaves has taken its place but as you all know they will suffer the same fate. El Catala though a Buck rose that is listed as resistant to Black Spot it has not proven itself to be in my yard, the same holds true for Alamande-Ho.

I want pitch the losers now, I will give them another year to shape up as I know some roses fair better as they mature. However, if they dont do remarkably better next season they are going to meet the shovel. I will be starting my search for more new roses earlier this year as some of the ones I wanted to try where already sold out in December. If you have anymore suggestions I will be most appreciative.

Nininanoo


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RE: Looking for Roses that are TRULY Resistant to Balck Spot

Nininanoo, I don't think you got much response to your originnal question about Romantica roses. Your list & forumm reports/my comments for what they are worth:

Abbaye de Cluny -- reported somewhat resistant
Auguste Renoir -- reported somewhat resistant but flowers open very poorly (balling)
Eden Climber -- average resistance, also flowers may open poorly, thrips and balling
MEIrevolt = Toulouse-Lautrec
MEIvamo = Paris de Yves St. Laurent -- reported somewhat resistant for a hybrid tea
MEIviolin = Eden
Polka -- somewhat resistant; an excellent rose
Toulouse-Lautrec -- reported not resistant

Also:
Traviata -- very resistant; an upright shrub, excellent
Colette -- very resistant to BS, gets some Cercospora spot; an arching shrub
Frederic Mistral -- above average resistance, flowers may open poorly; large upright shrub, excellent

Michael


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RE: Looking for Roses that are TRULY Resistant to Balck Spot

I have a horrible problem with disease in my gardens. Tomatoes always get a disease and lose thier leaves. BS on almost all my roses, and Powdery mildew on my old rose and lilacs. I live in the middle of the woods. We have 1.5 acres cleared. I fear I have a tendency to plant my roses in badly ventilated areas. Zephryn Droughin on a fence between the barn and a stand of trees, basically in the shade! (bs heaven!) But directly across from this on a fence under the eaves is climbing Westerland without a spot!
I have other roses in my perennial beds. They are watered from overhead. (I have no other way to water right now) Martha's Vinyard is beautiful with no spots wherever you put her. My Rugosa's are doing excellant also but the white ones don't ever get to have flowers because the Japanese beatles eat them. They don't seem to like the pink as well. I have a bird and butterfly sanctuary and do not like to spray anything. I hand pick bugs several times a day. I think Japanese beatles and grasshoppers do as much damage as bs. I hate them all! I still love roses, and want to use them. I have just decided they need to be made of iron. I don't have any "good sites" to put them in so they just need to be tough.


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RE: Looking for Roses that are TRULY Resistant to Balck Spot

I have 2 Abbaye de Cluny's in Central Massachussestts. It's hard for me to tell how resistent they are because I spray fairly regularily. One did get some bs this year so if you're looking for roses that are iron clad bs proof then you might not want to try her. On the other hand she's one of our absolute favorites!!


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RE: Looking for Roses that are TRULY Resistant to Balck Spot

GOOD LUCK!!!! I have been a 100% organic vegetable gardener for years and took the same path with roses when I began growing them 4 years ago. I will not say that it can not be done. However, If you wish to have any true variety of roses in your garden you will eventually begin spraying for fungi. I started with all OGR because I wanted to go 100% organic. unfortunately the limitations in colors and choices of rose types caused me to move to some other types. i have plenty of "found" roses and others that are supposed to be Disease resistant. However, the only rose bushes that I can say did as well without spraying them as they do with a fungicide program are: Carefree Beauty, Bon Seline, Iceburg, and Mrs. B. R. Cant. Many others did grow and do (what I thought was) fairly well without spraying. Once i surrendered and began using a fungicide regularly the difference in all of my rosesm except the 4 mentioned above, was like night and day.

I have several roses whose linage goes back to a time well before fungicides were available and many of them struggled to the best they could, but they never really lived up to my expectations. Once a fungicide program was introduced they have THRIVED.

I still do not spray for insects and I only use 100% organic fertilizers.

I have come to the realization (much to my chargin) that most roses will only do their best with a fungicide program.

Hettick


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RE: Looking for Roses that are TRULY Resistant to Balck Spot

Of my 40 or so roses (including 10 or so Bucks), the cleanest have been Celestial, Prairie Harvest, Livin'Easy, Piccolo Pete, and Knockout.

WendellO


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RE: Looking for Roses that are TRULY Resistant to Balck Spot

My cleanest Buck roses are Hawkeye Belle, Carefree Beauty and Paloma Blanca. The shrub/climbers Westerland and Autumn Sunset stayed black-spot free all summer. My cleanest floribundas are Bill Warrener and Sunsprite. And all of my Romanticas have performed very well with little or no spraying - Polka, Eden (Pierre de Ronsard), Colette, Auguste Renior, Leonardo de Vinci, Guy de Maupassant, Fredrick Mistral and Johann Strauss. The Generosa rose Martine Guillot and the climber New Dawn are also spotless, with no spraying at all. I've also had excellent luck with The Fairy, Knockout and it's 'sister rose' Carefree Sunshine - no blackspot at all. Wish I could say the same for my other roses!


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RE: Looking for Roses that are TRULY Resistant to Balck Spot

I noticed that Sunsprite was listed as resistant to blackspot and I agree. Its parent, Spanish Sun, which was also a floribunda, was the most disease resistant rose that I ever had. I moved it from my mother's yard to mine, and once more after that, and it held up very well. It survived for several years in NW Florida with no help from me after I got busy with other things and stopped caring for my roses properly. It finally met its demise being overwhelmed by a very vigorous althea and a lengthy drought.

It was a paler yellow than Sunsprite and its fragrance was truly outstanding. It even seemed to do better in a spot with just a little bit of shade in the hottest part of the day. I don't know if it's still in commerce. It was available for a while some years ago from Jackson and Perkins. I'll search for it and, if I find it, I'll post the source. Does anyone else remember this rose?


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RE: Looking for Roses that are TRULY Resistant to Balck Spot

My 'Auguste Renoir' and 'Leonardo Da Vinci' haven't suffered from black spot in their three years...and I love 'Knock Out' because it lives up to its name--NO BS.

:)
Mark


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Rugosas...

I worked at a gardencentre all summer long--never once did I see our Sir Thomas Lipton, Charles Albanel, or Henry Hudsons get blackspot and they did not require pruning at all.

:)
Mark


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RE: Looking for Roses that are TRULY Resistant to Balck Spot

  • Posted by Shufly 8 Coastal N.Car (My Page) on
    Sun, Jan 19, 03 at 6:42

I have dug up all my rose bushes and threw them on the compost pile, no longer will i grow bush roses.
I have heard that climbing roses are very resistant to all diseases, Is this TRUE ?
I am sick and tired of all that spraying fungicide there just HAS to be a better way.
And why in the blazes has no one come up with a disease free rose bush ? Can you imagine the fortune someone will make if it can be done.(o:


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RE: Looking for Roses that are TRULY Resistant to Balck Spot

shufly,
You're just growing the wrong roses. No rose (or plant) is guaranteed to be completely resistant to desease. Climbers are just big roses and they have the same problems as other roses.

I don't spray my roses and I don't have the best roses in the world, but I like them.

Here's my advice if you want to try again.
- Buy from a reputable nursery. Avoid the bagged specials at mass market retailers. I recommend Chamblee Roses. Buy own root one gallons from them and have them delivered in late March. The cost, including S&H will be $5 + $10/plant.
- Get roses that are easy. Roses that I grow and do well without spraying are Knockout, Belinda's Dream, Katy Road Pink, Livin Easy, The Fairy, Playboy, New Dawn.
- Make sure you plant them in a sunny spot and keep them well watered.

Good Luck.


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RE: Looking for Roses that are TRULY Resistant to Balck Spot

If no one has suggested it yet, go to Chamblees website and look at their list of earth kind roses.


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RE: Looking for Roses that are TRULY Resistant to Balck Spot

Shufly, I'm in the souteast too. We can grow some roses that can't handle harsher climates and which won't be disfigured by blackspot. China roses have been pretty much blackspot free for me for 3 years, as well as the polyantha Marie Pavie (I am going to get Marie Daly soon). Mutabilis, if you want a big, striking single, is hard to kill. The tother chinas I have that have done beautifully for several years are Louis Philippe, Archduke Charles, Sophie's Perpetual (which can be a pillar rose).


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RE: Looking for Roses that are TRULY Resistant to Balck Spot

I grow my roses organically and no spraying (not even Cornell formula) I live with less than perfect leaves on some of my roses, like Golden Wings, and one rose was defoliated by it- Henry Kelsey, an explorer rose. The following list was BS free:

Altissimo
Heritage
Mary Rose
Morden Centennial
Blanc double de coubert
Theresa Bugnet
Sexy Rexy
Starry Night
Betty Prior
Fantin Latour
Carefree Delight
FJ Grootendorst
Buffalo Gal
Rosa Rugosa
and many others

I choose roses for hardiness (zone 4 or 5) and disease resistance before they get into my garden. Right now they are all buried in 2ft of snow.!


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RE: Looking for Roses that are TRULY Resistant to Balck Spot

I have not been looking on this side for a long time but lately came across the book, Growing Roses Organically, in which the author chooses roses for her list that are first of all highly resistant to black spot or with none at all, "not susceptible". Needless to say there are NO hybrid teas on the list and only two floribundas. Probably three Austins. Most are rugosas, hybrid musks, Svedja hybrids, Kordes shrubs and shrubs from other hybridizers. A couple of Noisettes. No tender ones as the author learned her landscape trade in the Midwest I think Indianapolis.

And then we have the phenomenon of what gets BS here might not get it there. I noted scanning this large thread that someone mentioned Hawkeye Belle as being resistant. Well mine last year totally defoliated after blooming. I think it could be this thing of needing the right strain to hit it or, my theory, that is missing some micronutrient. I'm going back to fish/kelp to see if that fixes it.


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RE: Looking for Roses that are TRULY Resistant to Balck Spot

  • Posted by Petra 8TX HillCountry (My Page) on
    Tue, Mar 4, 03 at 0:10

Louis Philippe has been black spot free for us. We've had minimal black spot on Crepuscule, Graham Thomas, Westerland and Larry Daniels.


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RE: Looking for Roses that are TRULY Resistant to Balck Spot

I never had blackspot on my Madame Plantier or my Ballerina. Mme Plantier does attract a lot of attention from aphids, but a good home-made insect repellent applied a few times a season kept it safe. Let me know if you want a recipe for a nice rose friendly repellent/fungicide.

Also does anyone know how R. Gallica Versicolor (Rosa Mundi), R. Damascena (Summer Damask), and R. Gallica Officianalis (the Apothecary Rose) are with disease and insects?

Thanks!


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RE: Looking for Roses that are TRULY Resistant to Balck Spot

Hello, RobbyJo, I'm glad you mentioned Spanish Sun. I agree that the fragrance was outstanding. SS was one of the first roses I ever grew, My Mom and I picked out 3 roses from the (scented!) J & P catalog of 1993, and they were Oklahoma, Spanish Sun, and White Dawn. For my first roses, fragrance was a must, and I also wanted to try 3 different kinds of roses, a HT (Oklahoma) a floribunda (SS) and a climber (White Dawn).

Spanish Sun was a weak neglected little plant; it had about two flowers per year, but I can still summon up the scent in my memory. It was delicious.

Oklahoma also had a nice strong scent with a little lemon in it. White Dawn was very disease resistant. I have defended WD on the regular rose forum on a few occasions. It's not an exciting flower, but after a while you start to notice things like, does the plant have any leaves left on it at the end of the season!


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RE: Looking for Roses that are TRULY Resistant to Balck Spot

Y'all are way deeper into roses than I'll ever be. I would never even think to ask the name of a rose, but my best man gave me four roses for a wedding gift. I think he thinks I had as much interest in them as he did. Well, anyway...

I transplanted the roses to our home when we moved in 1992. The new soil was limestone rubble 4 inches deep with a huge boulder underneath that. So we applied about an inch of compost there every spring. For 8 years the roses were mostly canes with a few roses but not much in the way of greenery - more like yellow and blackery. I also suffered with aphids galore. I never fertilized them but we resupplied the compost religiously (every Easter!).

Then in 2001 the local organic radio guy suggested using corn meal under roses to control powdery mildew. What the heck? What could that hurt? So I tried it and I had green leaves from bottom to top all the way til November based on that one application of corn meal in Feb. I also noticed that I didn't have a single aphid that year. So in 2002 I did the same thing. Again, no mildew, no black spot (until November), and no aphids.

So this year I'm trying it again, duh! Corn meal went down on Feb 14th, my annual rose pruning day. This year I'm going to repeat the corn meal every month or so to see if I can keep the black spot away for the full year. I'm still not sure the corn meal has anything to do with the aphids, but I've done nothing different. No sprays, nothing.

It would be interesting for at least a couple of you to try corn meal and see what happens this year. Like I said when I first heard about it, what could it hurt? I'd try it on the worst black spot cases first.

My "application rate" is one heaping handful scattered under each rose plant on the day of pruning. Don't heap it up, the idea is to get a scattering of the stuff on the soil. The corn meal is the same as grocery store corn meal only mine is feed grade from a feed store for $5 for 50 pounds.

Apparently corn meal attracts the Trichoderma fungus which eats other fungi, especially disease causing fungi, in the soil. Those fungi that live in the soil get splashed up on to the leaves and canes by rain, but if they are killed in the soil, nothing is there to splash up except the Trichoderma killer fungi.

Corn meal has been tested against fungus diseases by Texas A&M University on peanut fields with perfect control of all peanut fungal disease. This means that peanut farmers no longer have to rotate crops for a year to let the disease die away. If anyone is interested in reading a reasonably technical document about peanuts, I can post a link. Or if you search the Internet for the words, "corn meal" and "peanut" you will find it.

The beauty of not using fungicides is that those suckers are expensive, I never know exactly when to apply because the info on the bottle is always different from my conditions, I never know whether it should be wetter or dryer, I never know if it's too hot (usually it is), I never know if I got enough on, and I never know if my old bottle is still good. Corn meal can be applied any day, any time, wet or dry. Results come in about 10 days, so if you start when you prune, the disease should be eradicated long before you get any growth.

Regarding the aphids, who knows what happened to them? One theory is that aphids are first attracted by fungi which might not be there any more. Another theory is that the plant is somehow healthier and no longer tastes good to the aphids. Another is that the corn meal and associated fungi prompt the plant to develop defenses much like when we get a small dose of a disease in an innoculation. Another theory is that I've been danged lucky for two years in a row and corn meal has nothing to do with it. All I know is I spend 45 minutes per year pruning roses and nothing after that, and the black spot is nearly all gone and the aphids are gone.


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RE: Looking for Roses that are TRULY Resistant to Balck Spot

Shufly, I live in the hot, humid South. Have never had an iota of blackspot on New Dawn; however, there are climbers, i.e., Dream Weaver, Golden Showers, Zephrine Drouhin that do get it. I have American Pillar, Mermaid, Veilchenblau, Cecile Brunner, Westerland, Sally Holmes who do not get blackspot (or very little). My Graham Thomas and Hertage are own-root Austins and get very little;however, I shovel-pruned all Austins on Dr. Huey secondary to problems with them, not just blackspot.


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RE: Looking for Roses that are TRULY Resistant to Balck Spot

How big does Westerland get in cooler climates? I'd like to plant one here in Denver, but don't necessarily want a huge climber.... 5-6 feet tall would be my limit...


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RE: Looking for Roses that are TRULY Resistant to Balck Spot

  • Posted by Elks US5, Can6b (My Page) on
    Fri, Apr 18, 03 at 6:23

In the Great Lakes area, Westerland grew to about 6', with long arching canes that could have almost been trained. Winter cut it back to the snow line.

Elk.


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RE: Looking for Roses that are TRULY Resistant to Balck Spot

I've just been reading this very interesting thread, and feel that I just have to have my say on Sunsprite (or Friesa, as its called in Australia!). I've have found it to be very susceptible to BS. Admittedly, I live in a subtropical area, but still..... So, does anyone know of any roses resistant to blackspot in zone 10, with hot, humid summers? :)


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RE: Looking for Roses that are TRULY Resistant to Balck Spot

Dchall_San_Antonio:

Well, I may very well take you up on your suggestion of using corn
meal. Back in March I bought a house that came with a rose bush the
previous owner was quite proud of. I'll be damned if it dies on me.
Considering I've never maintained a rose bush before, let alone a
yard for that matter, the odds aren't good I'm afraid.

I think what further increases the odds against me is that I would
really prefer to stay out of the toxic chemical business if at all
possible.

Anyway, sure enough this rose bush started developing black spot
this spring. At first I panicked and tried a fungicide (don't
remember which). That didn't help. Then I started reading Howard
Garrett's book on organic gardening, and so tried the baking soda &
soap treatment he suggested. That helped some, but it still persists.
So, I guess I'll try this corn meal approach, if it isn't too late.
At least it couldn't hurt, I imagine.


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RE: Looking for Roses that are TRULY Resistant to Balck Spot

I planted 3 Ruby Meidiland roses this year. Absolutely no problems! No blackspot and no Japanese Beetle damage!!!

However, my Europeanas and Mister Lincoln look absolutely horrible -- wicked blackspot and beetle damage. My Knockouts do not have any blackspot, but beetles love them (I bought them because the 'Ortho Easiest Roses to Grow' book said beetles don't like the taste of their foliage (big joke).


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RE: Looking for Roses that are TRULY Resistant to Balck Spot

Sharon,
I read that too in the Ortho book. Yes, it is a big joke. Japanese Beetles seem to like Knockout better than any of my other roses.
Wendell


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RE: Looking for Roses that are TRULY Resistant to Balck Spot

Dchall brings up an interesting question- how much of our blackspot problems are due to an imbalance of "good" and "bad" fungus?? I have always thought of bugs that way, but never fungi. Maybe our efforts to control BS only result in imbalance of the good fungi. This is similar to what happens with the use of pesticides. I personally don't spray, and tolerate less than perfect plants. I will try some cornmeal though, as it can't hurt, and doesn't sound expensive either.


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RE: Looking for Roses that are TRULY Resistant to Balck Spot

I read, with interest, the advice on using corn meal, also the baking soda idea, and many thanks to the contributors.

We just took up planting roses again, after many years without them, but now we have black spot galore - it was there pretty early on and is quite a pain to deal with. I'm spending more time "removing the affected leaves from the plant and the surrounding soil" than I did raising our two children and then some! It's slowly starting to dawn on me maybe, just maybe..... that's why we didn't bother with roses for so many years when we were bringing up our kids!

Because I'm a true believer in "to everything there is a purpose under heaven" I do not believe in chemically disposing of bugs So it was with complete delight that I read from the gentleman from Texas there was another remedy in sight. The answer to everything, right - food!

I will try the corn meal (not too much, just sprinkled underneath). I will not deviate from my purpose. I will also try the baking soda - this stuff can be used for practically anything it seems! And I will report back to the site with my findings in due course.

And to everyone who writes to this website I have a little quote for you that I love:

"Earth laughs in flowers" - Emerson.


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RE: Looking for Roses that are TRULY Resistant to Balck Spot

I have grown Lyda Rose for about seven years, and it's never had blackspot. I live in Olympia, WA with over 50 inches of rain annually, but summers are very dry (ours is a "modified Mediterranean" climate). Lyda Rose has single, small dark pink buds fading to white when open fully. Always in bloom from mid-spring to hard frost. Mine are in large (>20 inch diameter) pots (I re-pot with new soil every few years). I use alfalfa pellets and epsom salts in the spring and fish and kelp fertilizer the rest of the growing season. They're very easy to start from cuttings, too. I got the original plant from Heirloom Old Garden Roses in St. Paul, Oregon.


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RE: Looking for Roses that are TRULY Resistant to Balck Spot

I live in a hot/humid BS haven, and get lots of morning dew. Roses that are completely free of black spot this year:
Jude the Obscure
Heritage
St. Swithun
Climbing Eden
Damask: Marie Louise (may be prone to a little mildew)
This is their first year in my yard, and it's too soon to confirm. My Canadian Explorer, Lambert Closse, has been with me for two years, and shows no signs of BS.


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RE: Looking for Roses that are TRULY Resistant to Balck Spot

I am seeking suggestions on selection of my very first rose. I am in Tyler, TX. Tyler is a USAD Zone 7/8 (depending on who you talk to) and it is a Heat Zone 9. It is nothing to have 100* temps for days on end with a humidity of 95% - 100%. (Arizona heat is much better!!!!!!!) Tyler is one of the largest suppliers of Roses in the world (so I know they will grow in Tyler). I like to garden and have for many years but I have never tried to grow a rose because I am just too busy and lazy to bother with spraying and such. I have recently installed an arbor and would like to shade the arbor with roses. The rose should be be disease resistant (as I'm not going to spray), fragrant and a rebloomer. This arbor will face the south but will not have full sun until about noon. I am considering 'New Dawn' as the choice. What do you experienced gardners think of that choice???? Please let me know as planting time grows near.


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RE: Looking for Roses that are TRULY Resistant to Balck Spot

Hi Charlon,

Although I do not have experiences with them, tea roses (not hybrid tea) and noisettes are often recommended for warm, humid areas. There are some folks from your region on the general rose forum. Do a search there for tea or noisette roses, or post your question again there. You'll probably get more response than on this forum in an old thread.

Anyway, New Dawn is generally considered to be healthy. It reblooms, but you have to dead-head (remove spent blooms) especially after spring bloom for a good rebloom. Because it is a climber, this means you have to climb all the way up the arbor to do this. But it's fun, really :-)
Also, try to get some size estimates for New Dawn in your area. It might eat your arbor!
Before you buy, check out the noisettes. They are very beautiful, fragrant and less mundane than New Dawn, but that's all a matter of taste of course.

Good luck!
Rob


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RE: Looking for Zone 10 Roses Resistant to Balck Spot

Can anyone give me suggestions regarding Black spot resistant varieties which will do well in Zone 10. So far I have not had any luck!
Thanks


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RE: Looking for Roses that are TRULY Resistant to Balck Spot

Dear Shufly - you and I are in similar climates. I live on the south Jersey coast and my rose gardens are close to my bulkhead - humidity supreme. Be aware that we can both grow tea, China and Noisettes without protection. In my opinion you grew hybrid tea roses which are generally highly susciptible to black spot. Climbing roses are not generally resistant to BS.
As for climbers, here are two that are very BS resistant: climbing Westerland and New Dawn. You will need search the foliage for any evidence of BS on these varieties.
Non-climbers you might consider are Livin' Easy, Playboy, Knock Out, Just Joey, Lafter, Belinda's Dream, Cramoisi Superieur, Lavaglut, Ducher, and many others recommended by contributors to this remarkable web-site.
One great source of many of these roses can be found at www.countrysideroses.com.
I hope you try rose growing again and the best wishes to you...................Sincerely, Tom


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RE: Looking for Roses that are TRULY Resistant to Balck Spot

Thanks to David from Texas for the wonderful hint about putting corn meal around roses to prevent black spot (March last year). It reminds me of "ring around the roses" although I'm sure that has a connotation from the middle ages.

I said I'd report back after trying the corn meal, but.... unfortunately... I screwed up a bit...heh heh! We bought more roses last year after I'd applied the corn meal to the first set in April, and I didn't apply corn meal to the many more NEW ones we bought in June - so of course the new ones got black spot and even though the old ones (with the corn meal applied) had no spots at first, they developed them later on (probably from the new set). So I guess I'll have to wait till next year to try the corn meal again - as I assume (correct me if I'm wrong) that you can only apply it "early on" to prevent the black spot from occuring in the first place. Oh well, patience in gardening is soon rewarded...and my roses are all doing great - even with the black spot (actually there's very little of it anyway to speak of).

A big thank you to Dchall from Texas for the hint in the first place.... and it would be super if someone else who's tried the cornmeal could let us know how well theirs did. I'm so glad we put in roses again, now that the kids have gone - I have new babies aqain to look after - along with my rabbits and cats....there's no "empty nest" here in this house.

~ keep gardening and keep loving it! ~ elaine.


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RE: Looking for Roses that are TRULY Resistant to Balck Spot

I can't believe this thread is still around after these years.

Anyway, if anyone is still reading it, there are some roses that are resistant, others that are not, and much depends on where you are.

For the most part, corn meal, however, does not work. Nor does baking soda. If your roses get BS and you don't like it, and you don't want to at least use sulfur, you need to get different roses.

Take a look at the Earthkind roses that the U of Texas reports are fairly BS resistant, and look at those in your specific areas that are resistant.


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RE: Looking for Roses that are TRULY Resistant to Balck Spot

Living in the UK, I'm quite amused to find New Dawn ranking so high on this list! It is not especially resistant to b.s. and I wonder whether we have a strain of the fungus which has not reached the US. It's always useful to keep sharing info about disease-resistant roses, so here are my suggestions:
Several people have mentioned Rugosas and I concur with this. Roseraie de l'Hay is an especially fine rose that deserves a place in any garden; also Frau Dagmar Hastrup. There are also the Pimpinellifolias, though I don't know how they fare in the US.
Nobody has talked much about the old roses but many of these seem very resistant. Unfortunately, it's mostly the once-flowering ones. Ispahan, Marie Louise and Petite de Hollande seem good, also albas including Konigin von Danemark.
I would also agree with those who have suggested we need to decide how much black spot is acceptable. Little White Pet for example has tiny blemishes for me, nothing drastic. For me in Zone 7 borderline 8, but with moderate humidity, the Hybrid Musks suffer from a little black spot, but like Iceberg, are so vigorous that they outgrow it. And Noisettes and their hybrids seem very healthy too: among David Austin's roses, Snow Goose is highly recommendable; and among the older ones, Blush Noisette and Alister Stella Gray are two that have done well. Ghislaine de Feligonde is also good.
Where more modern roses are concerned I can definitely recommend the HT Deep Secret. I have grown it in two different gardens: sumptuous velvety flowers, wonderful scent and so far not a trace of this or any other fungal disease.


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RE: Looking for Roses that are TRULY Resistant to Balck Spot

Hey there...what about Chuckles beautiful hot pink flowers all summer long and no bs or pm and it is developing nice tomato red hips. It is a bloom machine. (I don't spray) The rose that I have the most trouble with is Scentimental it has defoliated 3x this summer. Does anyone have any suggestions on a red/white antique to replace this rose that is clean?


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RE: Looking for Roses that are TRULY Resistant to Balck Spot

The roses that have been blackspot free for me are:
Knockout, Carefree Sunshine, Westerland, Autumn Sunset, New Dawn, Pretty Lady, William Baffin, John Cabot, Champlain & Bayse Purple

Roses that are supposed to be disease free, but are not:
Livin Easy, Dortmund, Coral Flower Carpet and Lovely Fairy. They all do well without spraying, but start spotting late in the season.

The remainder of roses in my yard, must be sprayed.


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RE: Looking for Roses that are TRULY Resistant to Balck Spot

  • Posted by Elks US5, Can6b (My Page) on
    Mon, Nov 8, 04 at 17:17

In the Great Lakes area (between Huron and Erie), the usual host of suspects are free of disease:
Westerland
The Fairy
Knockout
Sombreuil
the rugosas
Red Flower Carpet
Bonica
The McCartney Rose (save for a little mildew).
Elk.


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RE: Looking for Roses that are TRULY Resistant to Balck Spot

One of the biggest factors involving the dreaded BS is lack of air circulation around the roses!!! On the hills of Wellington NZ my roses get plenty of fresh air, deep drenching if watering is needed, no sprays except liquid fertiliser and neem oil mixed together-2 birds 1 stone theory but there is plenty of compost/mulch. I use whatever manure or compost that is organic that I can get my hands on, the aphids are kept to a bare minimum with the neem oil and I reckon the smelly, fish-based fertiliser is enough to send any bugs packing. Any rose caught sulking after 2 years in the garden gets no futher chances--it is fed into the mulcher!! Over the years I have learned that molly coddling any sulky things is a waste of time and effort, roses are to be enjoyed and under this regime there is no black spot or grotty looking plant. The wind is free!!! Cheers, Sandra


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RE: Looking for Roses that are TRULY Resistant to Balck Spot

Great thread!


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RE: Looking for Roses that are TRULY Resistant to Balck Spot

Yes, especially usuful to new rose growers like myself that have just started into Roses!


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RE: Looking for Roses that are TRULY Resistant to Balck Spot

Seafoam gets my vote for sheer will to live; I bought one in a gallon conatiner on sale at K-mart in August 3 years ago. I kept the poor thing in it's plastic pot, determined to save it until I had my own place. Well, December 31st, 2003 we closed on our home and the dear little thing was finally planted on January 21st, just in time for an ice storm and a week of sub zero temps. I knew I had killed it, and kicked myself for not keeping it inside until spring.

But HA! Not only was it not dead, it has thrived; lush, shiny foilage, NO disease whatsoever, and even after being stripped completely bare twice last year during a break out by the evil sheep and goats, it has bounced back and is even now smothered in blooms. My only regret is that I didn't think to put it on a treliss and grow it as a climber. Instead, mine is sprawling out in the flowerbed, carpeting the area beneath my bedroom windows with wave after wave of white.


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RE: Looking for Roses that are TRULY Resistant to Balck Spot

I have sprinkled cornmeal around my roses three times this year. Normally BS is not a problem in our dry climate, but this spring has definitely NOT been dry.

To my amazement I have very little BS. Showbiz usually defoliates, no matter what the weather, but it still has about 85% of its leaves. BTW I am replacing it anyway.

I am also thinking....if a baking soda spray is recommended, what about spraying it on the soil too. And I have read of using cider vinegar spray (diluted) as well. Spraying it on the soil may help, and would balance the ph lowering effect of the backing soda. Has anyone tried spraying the soil?


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RE: Looking for Roses that are TRULY Resistant to Balck Spot

I am looking for a disease resistant pink climber which will be top watered and near salt water. It will climb on a picket fence.What is the corn meal baking soda treatment people keep referring to in the thread? Thanks


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RE: Looking for Roses that are TRULY Resistant to Balck Spot

  • Posted by remy 6WNY (My Page) on
    Mon, Mar 20, 06 at 19:57

Chatham,
If you didn't see it yet, the other post titled Cornell Formula gives the recipe for the baking soda treatment.
The corn meal is a totally separate treatment that I've never done. I really don't know how much people are sprinkling.
As for the rose, Rugosa type roses are best for salt tolerance. They are very disease tolerant too.


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RE: Looking for Roses that are TRULY Resistant to Balck Spot

Great thread!

Someone listed Sexy Rexy as being bs free. I had 50 roses, and Sexy Rexy got black spot and defoliated repeatedly, far worse than any other of the carefully chosen bushes. I loved everything else about that rose, especially the color and shape of the blooms, but would not get it again because of the bs.

Anne


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RE: Looking for Roses that are TRULY Resistant to Balck Spot

In my no-spray CT yard, the cleanest have been
#1 - Flower Carpet Scarlet
This is clean as a whistle, tough, constant bloomer, double scarlet, and cute, cute, cute! Way cuter than Knockout!
#2 - Crystal Fairy is a heavy bloomer with maybe a spot or two on a lower leaf
#3 - Bonica gets a few spots, but is a heavy bloomer and never dropped any significant amount of foliage

The above 3 are all new this year. When I was in Florida, I grew Sunflare for at least 5 years without spray and without any noticeable disease.

QC


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RE: Looking for Roses that are TRULY Resistant to Balck Spot

Chatham:

Try Cl. New Dawn.


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RE: Looking for Roses that are TRULY Resistant to Balck Spot

Baby Love has done extremely well for me. It also puts out non-stop flowers and the fragrance fills the air all around.

I noticed the original post was in '02 and by now in '07 we all probably know how well all the Knockouts do with resistance to BS.

I agree with the Austins being BS magnets and I will not plant anymore of those. I am finding that some of my mini-flora roses are really BS resistant. Pacific Serenade and Sweet Arlene are 2 that come to mind.

The leaves are a clue in my experience, just as someone else mentioned ...the shinier, medium to darker leaves that are of heavier substance seem to do the best.


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RE: Looking for Roses that are TRULY Resistant to Balck Spot

Recommendations for Kordes roses (blackspot resistance?) on the east coast, mid-atlantic?

Trying Dornroschen, Sunsprite, Folklore, Westerland (and sport Autumn Sunset) in the Spring.


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RE: Looking for Roses that are TRULY Resistant to Balck Spot

Here in TN,
Knockout is great...sure it gets it from Carefree Beauty...(my Knockout seedlings are quite resistent but less so than Knockout itself...but they're yellows).
Fairy is liveable and so is Ballerina (...but they both have it some...think my Ballerina is virused though).
Robin Hood somewhat better than the above two (...so it comes in second below Knockout...although there is some minor spottage...not enough to notice).
Carefree Delight does OK but some BS.
Carefree Wonder seems to be good so far.
Sunsprite has it bad for me....(carefree beauty x sunsprite = one of Buck's 'Prairie' roses...thinking Prairie Song...maybe Singer...in fact quite a few BS resistent roses have Carefree Beauty as their seed parent...I'm playing with Sunsprite as a parent anyways...like Knockout seedlings x sunsprite).
New Dawn some BS but vigorous anyway.
Graham Thomas has it bad.
Sombreuil is quite healthy...in fact I may rate it up there with Knockout and Robin Hood.
Peace isn't entirely BS free ...but almost... it's quite healthy here (although I've heard others complain)...still rate it extremely high...in fact it's a 'must have' for everyone in my book.
...Of course all rugosas are healthy....and smell good too.

I'm not going to list all those that DO have a problem here (I've only contradicted some of those that were mentioned above as being BS free above)

Okiez7's list seems to be pretty good. I read in 'The Ultimate Rose Book' that Chanelle is BS free also which is not said of any other rose in the book that I noticed. I'm wanting it but hate paying like $36 for a small band of it....anyone know of a source?


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RE: Looking for Roses that are TRULY Resistant to Balck Spot

Does anyone in the U.S. grow (own root) the rose "Especially for You" and, if so, from where did you get it?

Supposedly is a yellow very fragrant rose with superior disease resistance, but apparently apart from Hortico (and thus I guess it is grafted) it does not appear to be available on this continent.


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RE: Looking for Roses that are TRULY Resistant to Balck Spot

I had fun reading this post in it's entirety and seeing that it's lasted this long I figured it might be worth resurrecting again :)

I am extremely new to roses and looking to buy my first shrub(s). I am in Eastern PA, zone 5b, I know BS and J. beetles will be my nemisis when it comes to growing roses.
From what I'm told in our area knockout roses perform the best even though they are JB magnets (from what I'm reading here). So I'm on the fence about getting one.

I LOVE DAs but I don't think I will try them as I'd like the roses to be as maintenance free as possible.

I'm seriously considering Iceberg, Living Easy and Carefree sunshine to plant together in full sun, away from the house where I feel they will get good air flow as the backyard is fairly open.
I REALLY love Red roses and would like to add one in addition to or instead of these....any thoughts/suggestions?
Thanks in advance!


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RE: Looking for Roses that are TRULY Resistant to Balck Spot

Craftlady, I just happened on this thread. Mine are all babies but I chose them after reading recommendations on the OGR forum. Some red ones that are recommended: Valentine, Deep Secret, Red Cascade (mini climber), Louis Phillipe, Griff's Red, Chevy Chase (climber), Cramoisi Superieur, Home Run, Brave Heart, Raven, Illusion, Royal William, Chrysler Imperial, Mirandy, Alec's Red, Traviata, Dusky Maiden (single), Fields of the Wood (climber), Dame de Coeur (single), Altissimo (single), Tradescant, and Taboo. Of course, it does matter where you are as to how much black spot pressure there is. Good luck! Brandy


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RE: Looking for Roses that are TRULY Resistant to Balck Spot

Aside from species and near species (Cherokee Rose, Fortuniana, Banksia, Rosa Soulieana,Fortune's Double Yellow), I've only grown one that was totally without Blackspot. That one is Autumn Sunset. I planted 6 own-root plants in August of '08, (highly stressful in our heat) and have yet to see the first black-spotted leaf.

These are not far from a bed of 9 Griffith Buck Serendipity roses that are blackspot magnets (not a serious threat, even though it defoliates them, somewhat), and a long border that includes 9 blackspotty Don Juans, and 10 marginally blackspotty New Dawns. So the spores are there, but the Autumn Sunsets are shaking them off. I see a lot of R. Multiflora in Autumn Sunset.


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RE: Looking for Roses that are TRULY Resistant to Balck Spot

In 15 years in Georgia I have never seen blackspot on a Cherokee or a Lady Banks. (or, sad to say, a wild Multiflora!) I have rarely seen any on a China, including Mutabilis.

Until this year, I have never sprayed or fertilized anything. I have a Climbing Old Blush that is about 3 years old with maybe 2 spots on it. Climbing Cecile Brunner 4 years old has a little, but not much. Climbing Josephs' Coat 5 years old gets it badly. Patio minis lasted almost 5 years before it killed them. My 5 year old Cherokee is completely disease free. Four-year old Fairies in containers got powdery mildew every spring, but never got blackspot until this year, and defoliated completely.

The good news: Powdered milk spray does in fact stop powdery mildew. Baking soda spray (put on the new growth in desperation after the first defoliation) seems to have utterly prevented a repeat outbreak of blackspot. This is the first year I've tried it, and here's hoping it keeps working.

Another thing I've noticed: I used oak leaf for mulch in some beds and not in others, and it seems to make the blackspot worse.


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RE: Looking for Roses that are TRULY Resistant to Balck Spot

I had lots of BS with my romanticas. So far for me Livin Easy is great and Julia Child


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RE: Looking for Roses that are TRULY Resistant to Balck Spot

I tend to agree with others who have stated that one cannot find a truly black-spot resistant rose. I believe that it depends on so many factors-the health of the plant, how it was planted, soil, air circulation, humidity, etc. I am new to roses; this is only my second year, but I have not had black spot AT ALL(knock on wood). I live in humid zone 5 and am pretty bad about packing in plants together so the air circulation is probably pretty bad. I think what works for me is prevention, good soil, and good planting. I spray my roses once every week or 2 with neem oil, sulfur, bayer, or dishsoap. Be sure to spray in the evening so that the leaves do not burn. I sprinkle cayenne pepper around and on the roses every couple weeks to prevent pests. I spray the roses with the hose about once a week to rid them of any mites. I deadhead and remove leaves that have been chewed on or show other damage almost everyday. I am sure to dig a huge hole when I plant and add compost, epsom salts, and bone meal. I have read mixed reviews about epsom salts, but it is inexpensive and many critters do not like salt so what could it hurt even if it does little to fertilize the plant? After planting, I add mulch around the roses. I have had some minor problems with mites, aphids, and japanese beetles, but the regular spraying takes care of it. This spring I pruned them back pretty far.
I really do not find the spraying to be that much of a chore. I might spend 15 minutes spraying 6 bushes. Most of us rose growers are the type that love to fuss over a plant and probably have some control/OCD issues so it would be difficult for us to not spray, deadhead, etc and generally obsess over our plants. I planted these flowers to enjoy them so of course I am going to look at them everyday, and its natural to deadhead or spray when I do so. Since I rotate different products-some of them homemade-I do not find the cost of spraying to be that outrageous. Last year I might have spent $10 on spray. I do not really use any other kind of fertilizers other than compost and epsom salts; I am afraid of them and am searching for some organic fertilizer. I try to be as organic as possible. I think if your soil is bad or you don't deadhead or remove damaged parts of the plant, then you will get pests and disease. I will probably try the cornmeal idea, which I have never heard of; it is inexpensive and won't hurt the plant even if it doesn't work. I will also add the baking soda into my rotation of products. By the way, the rose bushes that I have are Golden Showers (climber, bought bareroot), SunFlare (floribunda, bought plant at big box store), Iceberg (floribunda, plant, big box store), Blue Girl (hybrid tea, bareroot), Hot Cocoa (floribunda, big box store), Arizona (grandiflora, big box), First Prize (hybrid tea, big box store). I know many people thumb their nose at big box stores, but I have seen as many raggedy plants at local nurseries as the big box stores. I do not like to invest alot of money in a plant especially since I am a new gardener; the most I have spent on a rose bush is $12 and most of them were $3-5. Losing $3 is way more reasonable to me than $30, $50. If I had to spray 100 bushes, I probably wouldn't want to do it but 6 bushes takes no time at all. And I have had no diseases-no powdery mildew, no blackspot, no horrible pest infestations, no rust. I will be curious to see if this holds true the rest of the summer and next year and will continue to report on the health of my roses. I have included some pictures of my bushes. You can probably see the sprinkling of cayenne pepper on some of them!!
a href="http://s380.photobucket.com/albums/oo245/eurekafly6/?action=viewt=012.jpg" target="_blank">Blue Girl Rose

Hot Cocoa Rose

Sun Flare rose
Iceberg Rose


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RE: Looking for Roses that are TRULY Resistant to Balck Spot

ebmcconne, congratulations on your lovely roses.

If you are feeling rather worn-out from your busy garden routine, you could throw out all the sprays and just use the Bayer once every 3 or 4 weeks--and get the same results.

Of course, Bayer is not organic, but it is effective. On the other hand, if you truly want to go organic, throw out the Bayer and invest in some of the disease-resistant roses mentioned in this thread.

Some of my more disease resistant roses are Austin's Mayflower and Austin's Mortimer Sackler and Austin's Pretty Jessica. Other Austin's that aren't quite as resistant but not too bad: Molineux and Queen of Sweden. Some other resistant roses are Elina (HT), Eutin (FL), Lambert Closse (Canadian Explorer), Home Run (shrub descendent of Knock Out?), and climbers Dublin Bay, Viking Queen, and Sombreuil.

Kate


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RE: Looking for Roses that are TRULY Resistant to Balck Spot

BS report from CT:
I grown two varieties of Buck Roses, plus New Dawn and Knockout. I wish i could state something different, but none are BS resistant for me. The Buck roses are planted in full sun in 4 raised beds, 2 per bed with lots of space. I decided to go natural last year. I pruned my Buck roses about 1/3 of the way down and pruned out some interior branches to improve circulation. I started with baking soda (diluted with water and a bit of dishsoap and had moderate success. Occasionally I would switch to vinegar, water and dish soap. When- and only when- i sprayed once a week, it kept the BS somewhat at bay. When i slacked off for even a week, trouble began. There is no easy answer here but I'm not ready to give up. This year I'll try the cornmeal. Nothing to lose! My New Dawn is not in 100% sun and that may be the problem, but I find it no better with BS than my Bucks. Wish I had better news!


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RE: Looking for Roses that are TRULY Resistant to Balck Spot

Argh, I hate Bayer. I will not buy any products with Bayer because they produce the insecticide Sevin which is deadly to the honeybees. I have boycotted them and have put them on my bad list because of the Sevin and other toxic pesticides that they produce. I agree that their fungicide is popular, but so long as they keep manufacturing Sevin....

A great rose is CORNELIA!!!!

Viking Queen, Crepuscule and Belinda's Dream are other really great roses for BS resistance.

Mrs. B.R. Cant was also pristine, and I loved this rose, but alas, it could not survive my zone 5 winter.

I have very high BS pressure in my locale but I refuse to use fungicides. I used to have good success with Greencure but last year we had non-stop rains and flooding and I have found when this happens to never ever spray ANYTHING on one's leaves. It is critical that if you have tons of moisture, unending rains, the roses do best when left completely alone. It is crucial that rose leaves must be able to dry out. My biggest ally against BS is hot blazing sun and no rains. In 2009, I had a terrific year. My roses remained pristine because we didn't used to get all this non-stop rain.

I use Gardenville sea tea to so that my roses can refoliate very quickly. The strongest continue to survive and they bloom like crazy so I just ignore the BS and enjoy the blooms, lol! It keeps me sane that way, haha! I refuse to grow anything besides Hybrid teas, Antiques (not to be mixed up with Austins), and hopefully someday a Rugosa. HTs are very susceptible to BS, but I love them and they are STAYING in my garden! I'm trying the cornmeal test too for 2011, lol!


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RE: Looking for Roses that are TRULY Resistant to Balck Spot

I moved into a house four years ago with a hybrid tea and what looks like one of the newer "English" landscape roses already planted in the yard. In rainier years they are covered with black spot. I don't spray or use chemicals of any kind. They always look skanky.

I added four old polyanthas (White Pet) to the yard in the first year. I thought I would have to remove the two already there to keep my "new" old roses healthy. I decided to wait and see what happens. I'm happy to report that even when the lesser plants are infested, the polyanthas are virtually black spot free as well as free of pests and other diseases.

I might add that I live in central Texas where we are experiencing a history-making drought. I haven't watered them once this summer and they are only now looking stressed. They are planted on the north side of the house alongside a porch. I think this helped.

I highly recommend the old roses. I wouldn't grow anything else.


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RE: Looking for Roses that are TRULY Resistant to Balck Spot

Dutchess de Brabant has been a wonderful rose for me, blooming her heart out in spite of our Mid Atlantic heat and HIGH humidity. I've never seen black spot on her, in spite of the fact that the Don Juan nearby had a touch of it until I got out the neem spray. [great stuff, if you must spray, btw]


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RE: Looking for Roses that are TRULY Resistant to Balck Spot

Last year for the first time I decided to try some roses and since Lowes had some cheapies on sale I decided to try them . Im afraid I lost the label. But I know they are not knockouts. I had set my mind against buying those. I got one red and one yellow and gave them the same mix and a good dose of composted manure. The red one did little but the yellow one turned into a champion, seeming to burst into bloom from day one and never stopping and on top of that I experienced no insect or leaf problems. I so loved this plant that Im trying to propagate cuttings from this one. Another reason of proof they are not knockouts is they do not deadhead which is what I understand they do. Because I do usually have aphids on my other plants I do use the organic neem oil in my spray can and also sprayed the roses. Not too bad for my first try at roses.


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RE: Looking for Roses that are TRULY Resistant to Balck Spot

Second for Belinda's Dream. I live near the coast in Florida...almost all roses I have grown in the past 16 years get blackspot here. But I have never had to spray my 10 year old Belinda's Dream. From what I understand, Walt Disney World calls Belinda's Dream THE rose of Florida.


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RE: Looking for Roses that are TRULY Resistant to Balck Spot

Barbara Streisand and New Zealand!

Ok, Just kidding.

I have had good luck with both Devonsensis and most of the David Austin Roses.


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RE: Looking for Roses that are TRULY Resistant to Balck Spot

I went to Home Depot to look at the Knock Out roses...totally disappointing! I have seen much better ground cover roses. Of course, this is a very wet area, lots of rain, so perhaps that is why these roses were covered in BS. I guess KnockOuts were bred with California weather in mind.


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RE: Looking for Roses that are TRULY Resistant to Balck Spot

  • Posted by jim1961 5/6 Central Pa. (My Page) on
    Tue, Jul 9, 13 at 18:17

I'm guessing your area has a strain of BS that knockouts
may not be resistant to...???

Knockouts are very disease resistant here and are resistant to BS in a lot of other locations throughout the
US...


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RE: Looking for Roses that are TRULY Resistant to Balck Spot

I am looking for two climbing roses...one for over an arbor in the entry to my yard and one is for a pergola in my yard. I am in z6 (MA) and I am looking for as disease resistant a rose as I can get cuz I won't be spraying them. I really love Eden, but I was told she isn't a repeat bloomer and can be susceptible to rust (or some other nasty). Stinks cuz I love that kind of rose. I was also looking a Zephrine Dourhin cuz she is supposed to be thornless, but I think she may get too big. I like Jasmina & Renae also. I just would like a rose that can grow well w/o spraying and that flowers a lot without having crazy thorns or trying to eat my arbor. Should I rub a lamp? Lol.
Also, I have been scouring for Pretty Jessica and only found her "banded". Iama newbie & have no idea what that means. Anyone have an idea? Ty in advance


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RE: Looking for Roses that are TRULY Resistant to Balck Spot

Hi Dani33: I post below a picture of "banded" rose so you'll see how big it is. A band is a narrow pot about 6" high, decent long-root that will get wider once transferred in a bigger pot.

Annie L. McDowell rose is a climber with zero thorns (only a few tiny prickles on the back of a few leaves). It smells like heaven (lilac-lavender scent). It's NOT appropriate for pergola, since it's not aggressive enough, but if you are in a warm zone, it will eventually go up your arbor. It's the MOST DISEASE-RESISTANT climber that you can get.

Annie L. McDowell is the improved-child of Renae, but the blooms are prettier & more doubled than Renae. Since Annie flowers at the expense of growth, it's a slow-growing one, might not be robust enough for zone 6 (MA). Both Annie and Renae repeat blooms well. My Annie in zone 5a is a tiny 2' x 2' bush, due to winter-kill. But if your soil is acidic, Annie is more aggressive. Annie is a wimp in warm & alkaline CA.

Columbian climber rose, almost thornless, is VERY IMPRESSIVE from the pics I have seen growing up a pergola. That one grows well for Daisy in Crete, Mediterranean climate, with sandy alkaline soil.

Jasmina is a Kordes rose from Germany so it's more disease-resistant, that would be appropriate for the pergola. The most impressive sight of a rose growing over a an arch is a red "Blaze climber". The stems are thin and can easily be trained over the arch, Annie L. Dowell stems are too thick & rigid, hard to train. No one can beat Blaze climber (tons of blooms, but has thorns). "Stairway to Heaven", a red climber is listed in catalog as Very disease-resistant.

People rave about Cecile Brunner, with light pink, is robust enough for pergola. It's low-thorn, a delight since 1894. Burlington Roses in CA sells band-size for $11, also gallon-size of Cecile Brunner. Everyone like Cecile Brunner, but few like Zeph. Drouhin.

Zeph. Drouhin is a disease-fest, plus blooms once or twice a year, I won't even consider that one, although it's thornless. Pretty Jessica is almost thornless, slow-to-establish. Sonia Rykiel is a more rewarding version, insanely fragrant that my kid wanted to eat the blooms. Some prickles, not bad, and flowers easily. Sonia Rykiel is my top rose, so with Kittymoonbeam ... she's a large rose grower in CA. Kitty once stated that if she has to create the most perfect rose, it would be Sonia Rykiel, and I agree. Sonia Rykiel is sold as a gallon at Roses Unlimited in South Carolina.

I'll post picts of a "banded" rose, bought for $10 each during Heirloom 1/2 price sale in July. The link below is priceless, it's has pictures of no-spray & healthy roses recommended from Pinterest.

Here is a link that might be useful: Easy no-spray roses from Pinterest

This post was edited by Strawberryhill on Sat, May 3, 14 at 14:13


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RE: Looking for Roses that are TRULY Resistant to Balck Spot

I remember when the Knockout roses first came out. They were everywhere. I walked into a well know nursery and told them that they should treat the blackspot that was covering their knockout roses.
Now maybe they have gotten better, but i kind of gave up on them.
Blackspot resistant
Lady Banks (l once bloomer but gorgeous)
Cecile Brunner
Robusta
Soaring Flight (a wonderful constant blooming rambler from" Heirloom Roses". http://www.heirloomroses.com/soaring-flight.html

Playboy does pretty well and can take a shady spot.
Seven Sisters
William Baffin
Darlow Enigma
Tiffany
Night Owl is a great short climber/bush that does well in shady area and has small amount easy to grow blackspot.

(America, Zepherin Droughin, are blackspot and mildew magnets)

Here is a link that might be useful: Heirloom Roses


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RE: Looking for Roses that are TRULY Resistant to Balck Spot

Straw, you made me laugh with your post about your kid wanting to eat the bloom! I love reading that you so highly recommend Sonia Rykiel as this is one of the roses that I ordered along with Poseidon from Roses Unlimited for next spring! Fingers crossed that I get it! :)


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RE: Looking for Roses that are TRULY Resistant to Balck Spot

  • Posted by jim1961 6a Central Pa. (My Page) on
    Thu, Jun 19, 14 at 15:53

I'm still in the process of trying to find very disease resistant roses for our area.
Now their are some roses that may do well here but because I do not like the bloom, color, size of bush or whatever I have not tried them yet.

But so far the best two roses that stay the most disease free are Double Knockout and Carefee Sunshine...

 photo 100_0997_zps31c8ddea.jpg
 photo 100_0935_zps0acc40cb.jpg


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RE: Looking for Roses that are TRULY Resistant to Balck Spot

Hi Jim: You have a nice camera .. very sharp details. It's raining non-stop here for 3 days, very humid weather. Potassium hardly move where it's applied ... a 3 mobility, rather than a 10 like Nitrogen. Thus it's best as soluble, or burying banana peels at the bottom of the hole.

The roses that I gave soluble potassium (sulfate of potash) have very little black spots. They are: Angel Face, Comte de Chambord, and Radio Times. Even Gruss an Teplitz has only 2 leaves with blackspots not bad. Folks reported those as disease-prone.

Below picture is Comte de Chambord, a rose known for blackspot-prone. I gave it sulfate of potash, picture taken after 3 days of rain. I dumped a bucket filled with 5 inch. of rain, to test the drainage. Zero black spots on that rose:

This post was edited by Strawberryhill on Fri, Jun 20, 14 at 10:42


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RE: Looking for Roses that are TRULY Resistant to Balck Spot

Below rose is Gruss an Teplitz, the parent of Dr. Huey (the rootstock that most roses are grafted on). Gruss is known as disease-fest. Last year in perfect potting soil, Gruss broke out in mildew, plus aphids, despite adequate calcium & potassium. I planted Gruss on a sunny hill, Gruss' mildew persisted.

I gave Gruss corn-meal, the mildew disappear. So I dug Gruss up, put 2-cups of cracked-corn in the hole, plus gypsum & sulfate of potash. He behaved during our dry spell (no mildew), also in our current wet spell (only 2 leaves of black spots). Picture of Gruss an Teplitz rose below was taken June 19, after 3 days of non-stop rain:


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RE: Looking for Roses that are TRULY Resistant to Balck Spot

For disease-resistant roses that OTHER FOLKS report, besides me (with alkaline clay), Excellenz von Schubert is always clean. Seaweed in CA posted her EVS in full-sun with tons of blooms. My EVS is in 4-hours of weak morning sun, less blooms, but always healthy:


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RE: Looking for Roses that are TRULY Resistant to Balck Spot

All my roses are own-root, except for Knock-outs.
Another disease-resistant rose is Christopher Marlowe, reported healthy in CA, as well as in my Chicagoland alkaline clay. Picture is taken June 19, after 3-days of rain, Christopher Marlowe rose gets only 4 hours of morning sun:


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RE: Looking for Roses that are TRULY Resistant to Balck Spot

Another rose which is always clean for the past 4 years is my OWN-ROOT Pat Austin. She gets 4 hours of morning sun, picture taken June 19, after 3-days of rain, and very humid weather:


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RE: Looking for Roses that are TRULY Resistant to Balck Spot

  • Posted by jim1961 6a Central Pa. (My Page) on
    Fri, Jun 20, 14 at 14:47

Thanks for the info Straw! I only grow own-root. I have never even grown a grafted rose yet.

"soluble potassium (sulfate of potash)"
What product name did you use Straw? Thanks


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RE: Looking for Roses that are TRULY Resistant to Balck Spot

Hi Jim: It's always good to hear from you .. you are one of the nicest people in the other forums. I use sulfate of potash (potassium sulfate), SOLUBLE powder form, NPK 0-0-50 from Kelp4Less ... it's $8 a lb., free shipping. I dilute with water 1st, like 1 teaspoon per 2 gallons, pour at plant's base, before a heavy rain. The rain will work that down to the root-zone. I double-the dose for black-spot prone roses.

The potassium chloride, or muriate of potash in fertilizers at stores are MUCH HIGHER IN SALT, at 116.2 salt index, versus LOWER salt sulfate of potash at 43. So it's worth ordering on-line. Sulfate of potash is also low in chloride, and roses are sensitive to chloride (break out in rust).

I haven't decided yet to use granular sulfate of potash for the planting hole, or to use high potassium & high iron red lava rocks ... the crushed red-lava-rock can also be ordered on-line. That might be best for my heavy clay & alkaline soil.

Below is Angel Face rose in my garden, I put gypsum in the planting hole, and watered it with SOLUBLE sulfate of potash. Since sulfate of potash stay put where applied (NOT mobile like nitrogen), even if the top surface is tested OK with applied fertilizers, the bottom hole may still be deficient.

I don't spray in my garden. Sulfate of potash is a natural mineral. Here's an excerpt from link below: "Potassium occurs abundantly in nature, being the 7th most common element in the earths crust. Some clay minerals which are associated with heavy soils are rich sources of potassium. They contain as much as 17% of K.

Potash bearing rock deposits occur in many regions of the world. They are derived from the minerals in ancient seas dried up millions of years ago. Fertiliser potash is mostly derived from these potash rocks."

http://www.mineralszone.com/minerals/potash.html

Here is a link that might be useful: Sulate of potash for $8 a lb., free shipping


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RE: Looking for Roses that are TRULY Resistant to Balck Spot

  • Posted by jim1961 6a Central Pa. (My Page) on
    Fri, Jun 20, 14 at 18:39

Cool Straw for the great info... Thank You!


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RE: Looking for Roses that are TRULY Resistant to Balck Spot

Hi Jim: Mas mentioned that she's applying silica ... known to strengthen cell-wall. I checked on potassium and disease-prevention, and found this in Wikipedia, "In agriculture, some cultivars are more efficient at K uptake due to genetic variations, and often these plants have increased disease resistance.[1] The mechanisms include a decreased cell permeability and decreased susceptibility to tissue penetration. Silica, which is accumulated in greater quantities when adequate potassium is present, is incorporated into cell walls, strengthening the epidermal layer which functions as a physical barrier to pathogens. Potassium has also been implicated to have a role in the proper thickening of cell walls."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potassium_deficiency_(plants)

**** From Straw: I notice that my disease-resistant roses: Basyes Blueberry, Excellenz von Schubert, Knock-outs, Kordes Flower Carpet, Annie L. McDowell, Marie Pavie, Bolero, Christopher Marlowe, Frederic Mistral, Old Port, Lilian Austin, and Nahema have THICKER LEAVES than flimsy Gruss an Teplitz' leaves.

The disease-resistant own-roots are more efficient in getting potassium from the soil, than Dr. Huey's parent, Gruss an Teplitz. I notice that when I bring down the pH of my alkaline tap water through a bit of vinegar, ... the leaves of Sweet Promise rose became thinner, and more wilting in hot sun.

So I checked on that, and a few University Extension mentioned that as the pH drops, levels of calcium and potassium are less available. There's the misconception that the pH has to be slightly acidic for roses to bloom best ... that's NOT true. The best tons-of-blooms in HMF are from sandy alkaline gardens, such as of Kitty Belendez in CA, she uses a soluble fertilizer mix, including kelp meal. Seaweed has alkaline clay soil, and she gets tons of blooms with soluble fertilizer.

Alkaline soil pH doesn't matter, since plants can do acid-phosphatase (secreting acids to utilize phosphorus in soil). Dr. Huey root-stock is good in acid-phosphatase for blooming, but lousy in getting potassium from the soil.

Here's an excerpt from eHow: "Potassium levels increase with higher pH levels, so acidic soils, which have lower pH levels, tend to have less potassium content than alkaline soils. According to professor Linda Chalker-Scott, potassium levels are particularly low in sandy acidic soils.

Amending Your Soil: If your soil has low pH and potassium levels, you should apply lime to increase soil pH. For potassium-deficient soils that are not acidic, fertilizers such as potassium sulfate (sulfate of potash) may be more appropriate."

*** From Straw: below is Annie L. McDowell, zero diseases for the past 2 years, that rose has VERY THICK leaves. I put gypsum in the planting hole & use soluble sulfate of potash. Picture taken June 19, after 3-days of rain & humid weather:

Here is a link that might be useful: Kitty Belendez garden in HMF

This post was edited by Strawberryhill on Fri, Jun 20, 14 at 19:52


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RE: Looking for Roses that are TRULY Resistant to Balck Spot

  • Posted by jim1961 6a Central Pa. (My Page) on
    Fri, Jun 20, 14 at 22:06

I'm going to get a new soil test done soon. Any recommendations on a good place that does those tests Straw?

My last soil test showed levels of potassium were ok...
PH 6.6-6.7

This time I'm going down at least 8-12 inches for soil...


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RE: Looking for Roses that are TRULY Resistant to Balck Spot

  • Posted by jim1961 6a Central Pa. (My Page) on
    Fri, Jun 20, 14 at 22:13

Addition to my last post. I am not familiar with silica...
I need to research that compound.
Where does a person get a source of silica?


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RE: Looking for Roses that are TRULY Resistant to Balck Spot

Hi Jim: There's only one research "Potassium Silicate decreased black spots in roses" ... if you search Potassium Silicate in this forum, you'll find it. Silicate is EVERYWHERE in nature, esp. in sand ... deficiency is rare.

I got my soil tested by EarthCo. for $20, which I got my pH of 7.7, deficient in potassium, phosphorus, and barely adequate in calcium (I'm next to a limestone quarry!).

Do-it-yourself red-cabbage pH test for $1.50 ($1 of distilled water, plus 50 cents of red-cabbage leaves): that's even better than a professional soil-test. Why? You can test as many samples as possible from your garden, and treat accordingly.

Below is a link that has a chart which show which nutrients are most deficient at what pH. However, the most accurate test is WATCHING each rose for any nutritional deficiency. Each rose has its own particular needs, depending on the spot where planted, and its genetic-make-up.

Here is a link that might be useful: Identify nutritional deficiencies based on pH

This post was edited by Strawberryhill on Sat, Jun 21, 14 at 13:56


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RE: Looking for Roses that are TRULY Resistant to Balck Spot

  • Posted by jim1961 6a Central Pa. (My Page) on
    Sat, Jun 21, 14 at 13:49

That last link you posted about how to identify nutritional deficiencies based on PH is not working Straw...

And thank you again for the info you provied Straw! :)

This post was edited by jim1961 on Sat, Jun 21, 14 at 13:51


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RE: Looking for Roses that are TRULY Resistant to Balck Spot

THANK YOU, Jim, for notifying me that the link doesn't work. It's a VERY SLOW loading link from Australia. So I deleted that, and replaced with a better link from Cornell University, it talks about boron deficiency, but if you SCROLL-DOWN, it has an excellent chart that detail what nutrients are less available at what pH level. See below, I also changed the previous link to Cornell University's link:

Here is a link that might be useful: Cornell University on boron and deficiency-chart


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RE: Looking for Roses that are TRULY Resistant to Balck Spot

  • Posted by jim1961 6a Central Pa. (My Page) on
    Sat, Jun 21, 14 at 21:43

Thanks for the link Straw!


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