My minor in college was chemistry .. so I like to do experiments. In my freezer, the frozen corn and oatmeal are loose in their bags, versus rock-hard ice-cream or pudding. I noticed that the bag of compost & manure (loose organic matter) froze less than the bag of sticky-clay-topsoil. My soil is heavy clay, which freezes into solid ice block, thus destroys tender roots.

I got Sharifa Asma & Jude the Obscure from Heirloom rose sale 1/2 off end of July. I grew them in pots as tiny bands, then transferred to the ground right before the ground freeze in Thanksgiving. In the holes, I mixed crack corn ($3 for 10 lb. bag from the feed-store), plus gypsum & bone meal for Sharifa Asma. For Jude the Obscure, I mixed pine bark chunks & bone meal & gypsum in the planting hole. Both survived -30 below zero harsh winter, with Sharifa beating Jude in vigor. Below picture of Sharifa Asma is taken this spring morning, May 20 in zone 5a:

In recent years, there's a new probiotic "Cardioviva" which decreases LDL cholesterol by 11%, also lessening the chance of infection by the bad bacteria Clostridium Difficile. From WebMD: "If you take antibiotics to kill bacteria that cause disease, your medicine may also kill the good bacteria. This allows C. difficile bacteria to grow in your large intestine and release toxins." See below link for the probiotics recommended by Prevention to fix particular ailments.

I'm a firm believer in beneficial bacteria (probiotics) both for humans and soils. I was cured of life-long yeast infection by the probiotics recommended by Prevention Magazine called "Fem-dophilus" by Jarrow. In growing roses, beneficial bacteria from manure & compost also suppress pathogenic fungi that bred on soil, to be splashed up to leaves and colonize in black spots (BS).

Comte de Chambord is known as BS-prone. It's hardy to the tip in my zone 5a. Now is healthy, despite my foolish experiment years ago of putting acidic alfalfa meal that made it broke out in HUGE black spots. Comte de Chambord has been clean for the past 3 years, with ALKALINE topping of manure & compost.

Here is a link that might be useful: Prevention magazine on probiotics (beneficial bacteria)

Even after the ground freezes, the leaves can be easily broken up, but it's hard to break up a frozen chunk of heavy clay. The holes where I mixed half-rotted leaves with soil, also gave hardy-to-the-tip roses, despite -30 below zero. The roses are: Stephen Big Purple, Frederic Mistral, and Sonia Rykiel. Another person in cold winter mixed half-rotted-straw in the planting hole, with success.

A person in zone 4a remarked that it's the dryness of cold winter that kill roses, rather than the low temp. I agree, if the soil is loose with organic matter (leaves) .. that insulate the roots from being frozen and destroyed. Plus leaves keep the roots moist. Below is Sonia Rykiel rose, hardy to the tip, picture taken May 20:

This post was edited by Strawberryhill on Tue, May 20, 14 at 11:05

I pruned Sharifa hard this year (don't even know what was my thought behind it b/c I do want her to have height. Won't be doing that again. She usually grows to about 4' tall.

Hi Mas: Your pictures by phone are FANTASTIC !!! I'm sure your new camera is even better. My camera is old & cheap, under $200, Olympus from Sam's club.

Last year, around July 20, I bought HUGE bag, 55 qt. of Moisture-control MG potting soil from Sam's .. for only $5. Normal price is $10, but they lower by 1/2 the last 2 weeks of July. My husband said we should had bought 10 more bags !! I saw these huge pots at Sam's club, but I'll wait until last weeks of July, hopefully they'll be 1/2 price.

Mas, I love how you interplant annuals with your roses, very pretty! Your Purple Rain and Sharifa Asma are very healthy & lush. I looked up your Celsiana rose, wow, I wish I have that rose: Damasks, hardy to zone 4
Semi-double, soft pink blooms with attractive golden stamens produced in small clusters on a graceful bush with grey-green foliage. An outstanding rose with magnificent perfume.

We got hail storm last night, 1/2 inch. in diameter ice balls, but did not damage the roses. This morning, roses broke out in buds. Below is Marie Pavie, the earliest to bloom and the most disease-resistant in my garden. When in bloom she's the most beautiful in my garden, and beat my daffodils, tulips, lilacs, crabapple flowers, and forsythia.

Thanks! One of these days I'll learn to use my real camera. I've had the same camera for ever and ever. Last year we had a photo class at the local Rose Society. Unfortunately my camera did not have any of the basic features that were needed. I went to ebay and bidded on one of the good (but still basic) cameras.

I like complimenting plants with annuals for seasonal interest. I just like to have something blooming all the time and a lot of them self-seed. I planted cosmos about 5 years ago and I have it every year b/c it self-seeds reliably for me w/o being weedy. Same with sweet allysium and even petunias. I have a hanging basket that have gotten the same wave petunias three years in a row just b/c i just let it be. I guess it pays to procrastinate sometimes. :)

I hope you get your pots. I bought some huge pots at Costco about 8 years ago and they are still at the front of the house looking great. They are worth it.

I think you would very much like Celsiana. It is a beautiful rose (once bloomer though). It is in the toughest area of my yard where nothing thrives but don't say that to her. She just plugs right along. B/c I gave up on that bed a while ago and just got around to redoing it this year, many times she gets no care at all, not even fertilizer. She is very healthy too and smells heavenly. Are you sold yet? :)

We've been getting the hail and storm for a couple of hours now. I hope they don't get my hostas too bad. They look fantastic this year. This here is one of them: Sum & Substance

in front of it is a very tiny bush of Charlotte right in front of the purple salvias

Hi Mas: That's a lovely combo of plants in front of your hosta. I like your light-color hosta, and the purple salvias .. it's like a painting of a garden.

Your cute Charlotte rose is a compact Austin ... I like roses in cold zone since they remain small & easy to plant perennials in between. It took me 1/2 hour to weed my rose beds, versus THE ENTIRE week just to dig dandelions from the lawn. Lawn is actually more work than rose gardens.

Thornless roses beat the hardy perennials since they have 4 flushes per year, plus can withstand last winter of -30 degree below zero in my zone 5a. Below is a thornless seedling of Yves Piaget, picture taken May 20:

Below is an early spring picture of Yves seedling that show the thornless branches & green-to-the tip through zone 5a winter. Burlington Nursery in CA has over 100 variety of thornless roses to choose from. They are worth growing & safe for children and pets.

See the link for thornless roses $11 for band-size (large roses), and below link for thornless mini-roses, $7.50 at Burlington nursery. The shipping is cheap, since she uses flat-rate boxes.

http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/roses/msg0210265823253.html

Here is a link that might be useful: Thornless mini-roses for containers

thank you for the compliment. I am a major plantoholic, though roses rule, I still like to plant a bit of everything: perennials, shrubs, annuals, bulbs, etc.

I can't believe that your Yves looks so good. I've killed that plant in two different gardens. Granted, the second garden I think I planted her in the wrong area (poor drainage) but Betty Boop is planted there now. But she is not thriving at all so I will try your method of adding wood chips to improve the drainage. It is constantly wet.

Do you have roses blooming? I have a few that I overwintered in the garage. From the ones that grow in the grown, Nearly Wild bloomed over the weekend. Hansa opened a few blooms today.

Hi Mas: I checked your "Nearly Wild" rose in HMF ... That's a cutie with so many blooms. How's Hansa fragrance compared to the fragrant Austin roses? I adore Hansa's deep pink color.

My Sharifa Asma has been blooming. Knock-your-socks off scent, I'm seriously addicted to its fragrance. Last year I put too much gypsum on Sharifa Asma and it took away its fabulous scent. eHow stated that phosphorus is what impart the scent & flavor, so I put lots of bonemeal (high phosphorus) in Sharifa's hole before the ground froze.

I'm leaning toward more Austin roses ... much hardier, and heavenly scents ... no perfume can match. People spend billions in the perfume industry, while roses are so much cheaper & much better smelling.

Hansa is very fragrant. Most of my DA's fragrance lean more towards myrrh, while Hansa has the classic rugosa fragrance, which I think resembles more the classic attar of roses.

One of the rugosas that is just absolutely heavenly fragrant is Rosarie de l'Hay. I don't grow it b/c it is a big bush, but it might be worth it. I came home from the rose society with the cut blooms from this rose from one of the fellow rose society members and I just kept sniffing it all night long.

I know that you mentioned that rugosas don't like alkaline soil, have you tried growing them before?

My Sharifa isn't blooming yet. The poor thing had to put on some growth after I pruned her heavily. Never again.

Hi Mas: The library, 5 min. away, has a hedge of Rugosa. They bloom once a year (very few blooms), and the rest of the year they look like yellowish sick eye-sores. Our water is too alkaline, pH 8, and our soil is heavy rock-hard clay, and become water-logged with poor-drainage.

Rugosa can tolerate alkalinity if it's loamy soil. Rugosa is known as "beach rose" since they do well in sandy soil and tolerate drought.

Seaweed sent me hundreds of pics. for the past year ... too bad her lap top can't post pics. that well. Among her 160+ roses, these are the two I like: Charisma next to liquorice scented Julia Child:

oh so pretty!! those two together look so bright and cheery!

I woke up to a few roses blooming today. Celsiana has opened a few buds. Here is one of them.

I have this white rose climbing up the pine tree. I don't know what she is. She was the root stock that Rosa Mundi was grafted on. I tried killing her a few times but after seeing that it was not really bothering Rosa Mundi and the blooms and hips were so pretty I've left her be. I don't think it is multiflora, at least the common multiflora b/c it has very big/long hips and larger, solitary white blooms. I would love to id her. She climbs on the pine all on her own. I've done nothing to help this rose. From afar it looks like I have a blooming pine. :)

Sunshine Daydream--Here is a rose that I'm loving more every day. I planted her this spring. This is her second flush which came right after the first one.

Lovely roses, thank you Strawberryhill for many eye candies and we praise to God for easy enjoyment, good for our soul!

Hi Mas & Seaweed: I think Seaweed meant to thank you, Mas, for those nice pics. in your garden. Seaweed's eyes have a medical condition with double-vision, hard for her to keep track of who's posting.

What I like the most about your pics, Mas, is that they are in a natural setting, it's like being in your garden. You have such perfect soil, all your plants are lush & green. My white pine is yellowish in heavy clay, but the white pine that I fixed with sand is less pale.

My favorite most hardy rose is Comte de Chambord, magnificent scent that beat any expensive perfume. It survived last brutal zone 5a winter, even though I moved it to a raised bed late fall before Thanksgiving. I did that since it's so short that the bunnies ate its blooms.

Below is Comte de Chambord, taken May 28, it has 8 buds for a tiny plant less than 1 foot.

Thank you! I try to amend the soil every year by adding different soil conditioners. I still have mostly clay covered by dark mulch. I read somewhere that mulch forgives many sins and how true that is. It makes beds look finish. I think my white pines are getting scraggly as they grow.

So excited to hear about your CdeCH. I ordered Comte de Chambord and Blueberry Hill from Heirloom. Should be here any day. Does it always stay small for you?

Hi Mas: Comte de Chambord as own-root is small for everyone, including Kittymoonbeam in CA. It's very small for me, since I keep cutting the blooms, such fabulous scent. It's so compact and VERY cold-hardy. The grafted version of Comte is worse: disease-fest & and declines as it ages.

I like own-roots since they improve with time. Grafted on Dr-Huey are vigorous at first, but a decline in vigor later. Many of my neighbor's grafted-on-Dr.Huey died this past winter in my zone 5a.

You got Blueberry Hill? I'm always impressed by its pics. Can't wait until you show me that one blooming. Below is Comte de Chambord bloom, lasts 4 days in a vase ... I sniff that at least 10 times a day.

This post was edited by Strawberryhill on Fri, May 30, 14 at 22:15

It looks beautiful! Thank you for letting me know about the own roots vs. grafted on this one. So glad that i got it on her own roots. I got both this one and Blueberry Hill from Heirloom. They are supposed to get here this week. I got they don't suffer with the high temperatures getting here.

Mas

To save cold-zoners $$ in buying own-root roses which died in their 1st winter like my Austin Eglantyne and Jude the Obscure ... also my own-root Double-Delight, Heirloom, Paul Neyron, and Angel face died in their 1st winter. Hybrid teas are hardier as grafted on Dr. Huey, since Dr. Huey is deep-root, and can spread out & fetch more water ... so roses can survive a dry winter if the graft-bunion is buried 4 inch. below ground. Good info. on hardy roses from JodyC in Dave's Garden forum:

JodyC Palmyra, IL (Zone 5b)

November 24, 2005

"I know several of the Old garden roses are very hardy.Most of the rose sites have lists by zone.:-) Here is an example of just a few.

Roses for Zone 3 and up: Agnes, Austrian Copper, Blanc Double de Coubert,
Cardinal de Richelieu, Carefree Wonder, Charles de Mills, Frau Dagmar Hastrup, Hansa, Harison's Yellow, Persian Yellow, Pink Grootendorst, Rosa Alba Semi-plena, Rosa Rugosa Alba, Rosa Rugosa Rubra, Therese Bugnet.

Roses for Zone 4 and up: Abraham Darby, America, cli., American Pillar, Ballerina, Baronne Edmond de Rothschild, Belle de Crecy, Betty Prior, Blaze Improved, cli.,
Blush Damask, Buff Beauty, Carefree Beauty, Carefree Delight, Cecile Brunner, bush and climbing,
Charles de Mills, Country Dancer, Don Juan, cli., Dortmund, Felicite Parmentier, Golden Showers, cli., Honorine de Brabant, Iceberg, reg. and climbing, Madame Hardy, Madame Pierre Oger, Maiden's Blush, Margo Koster, Cli., New Dawn,cli., Rose de Rescht, Seafoam, Scarlet Meidiland, Stainless Steel, Tamora.

Roses for Zone 5 and up: Alchemist, Aloha,cli., Altissimo, cli., Angel Face, bush and climber, Ballerina, Baronne Prevost, Belinda, Betty Prior, Buff Beauty, Charlotte Armstrong, Comte de Chambord, Coquette des Blanches, Dainty Bess, Distant Drums, Double Delight, Fourth of July, cli., Fragrant Cloud, Golden Wings, Graham Thomas, Gruss an Aachen, Heritage, Irene Watts, Jacques Cartier, Joseph's Coat, cli., Just Joey, La Reine, La Ville de Bruxelles, Louise Odier, Madame Alfred Carriere, Margo Koster, cli., Mister Lincoln, Mutabilis, Olympiad, Othello, Paul Neyron, Reine des Violettes, Rose de Rescht, Sally Holmes, Shot Silk, cli., Souvenir de la Malmaison, cli., Stanwell Perpetual, The Prince, The Squire, Westerland, White Dawn, cli., White Pet, Zepherine Drouhin.

Found another hardy rose list:
http://www.extension.umn.edu/distribution/horticulture/DG6750.html

JodyC Palmyra, IL (Zone 5b)

Read more: http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/549516/#ixzz3tBTb5zUq

That's a comprehensive update Straw!

Khalid: hardy roses are those with vigorous roots to withstand drying-cold, so they would be good in hot & dry climate. I agree with the above list, except for Mr. Lincoln (stingy & one-cane in zone 5a), and Paul Neyron (disease-prone & died in my 1st winter).

The deep-orange Charisma rose and Julia Child up the thread: that belongs to Seaweed in Southern California, who fertilizes her roses in pots with fish emulsion ... that has many trace elements to deep bloom colors. Fish emulsion also has magnesium & calcium. Prickles (Bailey) got 120+ blooms on his Young Lycidas Austin rose, in a pot, fertilized with fresh-salmon bits and shrimp shells.

http://www.doityourself.com/stry/what-nutrients-does-fish-emulsion-contain-for-plants

I bump this thread up since our roses in zone 5a are at the start of their 1st flush, but some got winter-killed to the crown, with a few shoots sprouting. This winter of heavy cold rain (Dec.) was hard on the slower-draining heavy clay places. I thought I lost Bronze Star, but just saw a tiny shoot yesterday, the root is OK, it got winter-killed to the crown !!

Below excerpt from University of Vermont explains how winter can kill plants: "Since freezing water can burst cells, some water leaves cells during acclimation. Sugars and other protective chemicals, similar to antifreeze, with lower freezing points are increased. So it makes sense that you don’t want plants to enter winter waterlogged. On the other hand, you want them to not be stressed from prolonged drought periods. Ideal is to make sure that plants have sufficient water in the fall, but keep them on the dry side if possible.

To help plants prepare for best winter survival, you should avoid practices that stimulate late summer growth of trees and shrubs. For example, nitrogen fertilization in August or early September may encourage a late flush of stems that can't turn off their growth before frosts.

Fertilizer and lime applied (according to soil test results) in October or November, when temperatures are cooler and days are shorter, will not stimulate top growth until spring. Roots take up the nutrients and store them in the roots and stems. While it is best to lime in the fall—most lime takes some months to change the soil acidity—it is best to wait until growth resumes in spring to fertilize if not done by mid fall.

For established plants, most professionals recommend to mulch late, just before snow fall. This allows the soil to cool, and plants to harden off sooner.

Do not use lawn fertilizers containing herbicides within the spread of trees. Otherwise, the herbicide will be taken up by the tree and kill it, just as it kills broad-leaved weeds.

http://www.uvm.edu/pss/ppp/articles/prepare.html

Seil in zone 6 posted a list of what survived her winter, and what did not for winter 2014. THANK YOU, Seil.

http://forums2.gardenweb.com/discussions/1667062/the-final-winter-tally?n=17

bump up to remind myself to LIME MY SOIL now due to heavy rain in recent years. Also hybrid teas like Angel Face IS HARDY in my zone 5a ONLY IF GRAFTED on Dr. Huey. My own-root Angel Face didn't survive winter.

Straw thank you so much for sharing all your observations and research! I am a newbie to growing roses, but I love learning all I can about it. One question/comment about making roses more winter hardy, my background is in large animals and when breeding horses and cattle it is a well established fact that an animal who is born and raised in a harsher climate is tougher and hardier than one raised in a protected climate and then expected to acclimate, even if the acclimation is done gradually. Do you think that the same would work for roses? I live in the mountains in Wyoming, 5000ft altitude, zone 4, and it occurred to me that perhaps if I could raise a seedling or take a cutting here, that it might be hardier than one born in, say California or Florida, and then shipped to me, even if it was the same rose or parentage? The next thought that follows would be, if I bought zone-pushing roses from anywhere, planted them in my garden and took cuttings and seeds and raised those here, would they be hardier than the parent? I probably shouldn't continue it too far, in case I end up with a rose growing laboratory perched on top of a snowy windy peak trying to raise hybrid teas for zone three, and driving myself mad thereby, but I would love to know what you think?

Joey: Very good questions. Here are what I learn about own-root roses:

1) Where they are bred and the TYPE OF SOIL & weather predicts where they will be successful. Roses bred in acidic & rainy & less sun England will be successful in acidic & high rain East coast. But roses bred in alkaline & hot & sunny Southern France will be successful in alkaline clay & sunny garden.

2) How vigorous the root is? The newly bred roses ARE VERY VIGOROUS as own-roots, and can survive BOTH Pakistan 113 F hot summer and my zone 5a winter of -20 below zero. Vigorous roots are both long (at least 2 feet deep) and spreading wide. Vigorous roots are also THICK to store water in dry summer/winter. Dee-lish can die to the crown, but the root is so deep that it can go for 1 month without watering, either through a cold & dry winter or hot summer. Dee-lish has a climber as a parent (Graham Thomas). If a rose is bred with a climber in its genetics, it will have deeper root.

3) It's the selection of the fittest. In breeding roses, there will be many seeds ... and only the fittest seed sprout up to be the most vigorous root or to be disease-resistant. The other dozen to 100 seeds either don't germinate, or sprout some wimpy plants that black-spot & less petals, or can only bloom once a year. This answer your question directly, breed roses in your cold zone and see which seed can sprout in extreme cold temp., and which seed has the deepest root to survive the winter. English roses, bred in a colder climate than France: most have climber-heritage or Old Garden Roses' genetics, and English roses are actually favored by hot climate folks in Pakistan due to the vigor of their roots. Deeper root = more weather resistant. I hang out in Facebook Fragrant Rose Lovers group, where most Pakistan posters are. English roses are favored in both extreme hot and extreme cold climate due to the toughness of their roots to survive long periods of drought.

Thank you so much!!

Straw have you ever done the potassium feast before winter, where you give potassium only for once a week, up to 6 weeks before freeze? I saw a pretty big difference the year I did it to the roses I fall planted. They did better during that rougher winter, than they have since. I'm going to do it to all my wimpy plants this year. The ones I have more than one (example Belinda's Dream), I'm thinking I could do 1, and see if one does better. They had hardly any die back this year, and I can't remember for sure, but it's possible I did give them potassium last fall.

Yes, I did potassium feast in 2014 winter, and roses bloomed tons right to frost with shiny foliage (also noted by another Pakistan grower that high potassium = shiny foliage). But it was a DRY WINTER, and water-hog Frederic Mistral died. But he was over 3 feet tall & tons of blooms right before frost. When I dug the root up, IT WAS HUGE like tree's root thanks to "potassium feast". However, potassium needs water to be most available. We had a wet fall in 2014, but dry winter that kill Fred. Potassium helps roots to be thicker. Roses Unlimited uses high-potassium fertilizer and their leaves are thick & thick roots too. I bought HUGE own-roots from Regan nursery (more expensive) and I see ZERO difference in blooming power in 1st and 2nd year of Regan's bigger roots compared to Roses Unlimited' smaller root (more cluster since RU also uses high phosphorus).

Thanks Straw, I didn't know it did all that to the roots. It rains a ton during winter here. I don't try covering anything for winter, because it would be a rotted mess. That must be why it helped here. If I remember, the canes got a red look, and it got really cold that year. I thought for sure I had wasted my money planting in fall, but something worked. Sadly they looked better then, than they do right now. I've figured out that yoyo temperatures are worse than steady cold.

Witchygirl:: You are right that yoyo temp. is worse than steady cold. One-fourth of street trees died that winter when we had warm weather during Christmas, then FREEZING rain and these woody-roots can't cope with frozen ice that crack their roots .. that's the same year that my drought-tolerant roses die (Sonia Rykiel, Marie Pavie) .. both have thick & woody roots. I wish I have steady snow all winter (like in Michigan where I grew up) rather than yo-yo weather in Chicagoland.

Found this old post while searching for info on "potassium feast" for cold zone roses. Anyone have any updates on doing this for cold zoners? Sounds like an interesting idea. Straw, do you have any recommendations for a good brand for Muriate of Potash?

Thanks for any tips!

Brendan: Muriate of Potash like Espoma Potash is VERY HIGH IN SALT, with salt index of 116, compared to salt index of 43 for sulfate of potash (potassium sulfate). Muriate of Potash is a fancy name for potassium chloride, that salty stuff is sold cheap $12 for a huge bag to melt the ice in my zone 5 winter.

Husband bought Muriate of Potash (Espoma Potash) by mistake, and light-color blooms get brownish edges & made all my pastel color blooms ugly. But I don't have that problem with sulfate of potash.

One Amazon customer recommends buying Sulfate of potash from local farm feed-store: a 50 pound bag for $22, versus 5 lb. for $20 on Amazon. Sulfate of potash does wonder to REVERSE blackspots since potassium is needed for proper water osmosis, root-growth & more blooms and disease-prevention. Sulfate of potash