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Environmental reasons for NOT spraying with chemicals

Posted by Strawberryhill 5a IL (My Page) on
Mon, May 27, 13 at 13:49

People don't realize that the German chemical giant Bayer makes other crop-control products, and NOT just for roses. 94 million acres of corn are planted with seeds treated with pesticides. There's also the Oberon-insecticides spray for corn.

Bayer is the German company that supplied toxic gas during the Holocaust that killed 6 million Jews. The Los Angeles Times on Feb 18, 1999 reported: "In the latest front of Holocaust-related litigation, a federal class-action suit was filed Wednesday on behalf of survivors of Nazi death camps, alleging that Bayer AG, the giant German-owned chemical and pharmaceutical company, participated in cruel medical experiments by the infamous Dr. Josef Mengele.

The suit, filed by a group of lawyers already involved in a spate of other Holocaust-related litigation, alleges that Bayer "monitored and supervised those experiments, and used them as a form of research and development for its corporate benefit."

There's a book about fighting cancer written by an M.D. with a brain tumor. He wrote about growing up in France and watching farmers nearby spraying their corn field.

There are 3 studies that linked bee decline to Bayer Pesticide. If our crops are sprayed, and if our flowers are sprayed, then how will the bees survive?

With the news of Angelia Jolie's double-mastectomy, I was checking on pesticides and cancer risk, and found a large study of 30,454 farmers' wives in Iowa and North Carolina, and here's the study's conclusion:

"The authors found no clear association of breast cancer risk with farm size or washing of clothes worn during pesticide application, but risk was modestly elevated among women whose homes were closest to areas of pesticide application." See link below for the study:

In my last house of acidic clay, only 1/2 hour away, I mulched with acidic pine bark, I also sprayed regularly with Bayer, and had the worst blackspots both in fall, and also in the spring (I winterized with acidic wet leaves, which didn't help).

Now in the new house with alkaline clay, pH 7.7, have 55+ own-root roses, no spray, less diseases, when I keep the surface dry and alkaline. Here's own-root Evelyn rose, 2nd year in spring:

Here is a link that might be useful: Pesticide Use and Breast Cancer risk

This post was edited by Strawberryhill on Sun, Sep 15, 13 at 12:11

Follow-Up Postings:

RE: Environmental reasons for NOT spraying with chemicals

Posting this here is preaching to the choir?

RE: Environmental reasons for NOT spraying with chemicals

Hi greentiger87: I post this to defend the Organic Rose Forum. There are folks who came in here to recommend Bayer spray and other chemicals, that's totally inappropriate.

I got shot-down by sprayers in the Rose Forum for posting info.. At least there's freedom of speech here, since it's the Organic Rose Forum.

Hopefully the organic ways are welcomed here, rather than be mocked. After all, it's Organic Rose Growing Forum.

This post was edited by Strawberryhill on Wed, Sep 11, 13 at 22:38

RE: Environmental reasons for NOT spraying with chemicals

Here's an excerpt from the below link:

"There is one place where the use of these chemicals is completely unjustified and that is in the garden. Yet I challenge you to find a single rose treatment or aphid killer in the garden centre that doesn’t contain the neonicotinoid chemicals we now know are dangerous to bees. I suggest you take the products to the counter, explain that they kill bees and leave them there, unbought." Charles Clover, The Sunday Times, London.

Below is Tamora rose, picture taken at nearby rose park. They spray with Bayer every 10 days, and fertilize with chemicals. I don't see any bees nor butterflies. The leaves don't have that glossy shine like the time they fertilized with cow manure (decade ago).

Here is a link that might be useful: Your perfect rose might be killing bees

RE: Environmental reasons for NOT spraying with chemicals

Strawberry- I don't spray my roses at all. Our climate does not promote black spot and other issues, but mainly because I grow mostly OGRs and a few Canadian and rugosa roses.

Thanks for the beautiful pictures on this and other posts! Sometimes, I just like to visit the forum to see other people's roses. Ours are beautiful in late May/early June and then a few flushes. The exception being the Ebb Tide I planted last year (own root) which is doing beautifully and has three blooms. So much fun, to see the dark purple. I need to take pictures :)

RE: Environmental reasons for NOT spraying with chemicals

Thank you, Lavender_lass, for your encouraging words ... I love the pictures you posted of your garden in Antique Roses .. you have much bigger land than my small suburb lot. I checked on Twilight Zone rose and folks report it blooming much more than Ebb Tide.

My friend in Chicagoland, zone 5a, said Twilight Zone and Lady of Megginch are her 2 favorite roses in her garden ... she has lots of roses.

RE: Environmental reasons for NOT spraying with chemicals

TZ has a burgundy-rose color that appeals to me very much. I am enjoying all the pictures as well.

I saw roses stitched in a vintage sampler today and I thought of how we are all working to help each other grow beautiful roses. That's beautiful too.

RE: Environmental reasons for NOT spraying with chemicals

Hi Kitty: It's always nice to hear from you. I learn lots from you about growing roses in alkaline clay, thank you. I would love to see your pics. here ... you have so many that I like, such as Twilight Zone and many others.

Consider how folks grow roses in Middle Ages, when they don't have access to mulch? Most likely they bury roses deep, like I do in zone 5a .. or top with animal manure.

Acidic mulch upsets nature balance, and foster fungal germination. Consider what I learned in microbiology class, plus this quote from Soil Science Dept., Lund University, Sweden "The growth-based measurements revealed a fivefold decrease in bacterial growth and a fivefold increase in fungal growth with lower pH."

See below link for an ABSTRACT from National Institute of Ecology, entitled, "In vitro suppression of fungi caused by combinations of apparently non-antagonistic soil bacteria."

In that research, growth reduction of fungi by a mixture of soil bacteria was much stronger than that of single strains. My soil is limestone clay, pH 7.7. Lime is a fungicide. The roses with just bare dirt, are healthy, including disease-prone Paul Neyron and Comte de Chambord:

Here's the base of Paul Neyron rose, always clean as 2nd year own-root, no mulch. Picture taken today, Sept. 16.

 photo cleanPaulNeyron.jpg

Here's the base of Comte de Chambord rose, 2nd year-own-root, no mulch, with a lily grown in the middle of the bush, Picture taken today, Sept. 16.

 photo cleancomte.jpg

Last year Blue Mist polyantha was a black-spot mess when it was in a pot, topped with acidic alfalfa meal. Here's Blue Mist, 2nd-year-own-root in my alkaline clay, also clean with no mulch. Picture taken today, Sept. 16.

 photo cleanlbuemist.jpg

Here's my experiment to see if calcium and potassium helps if the rose is mulched with acidic and wet medium. Not really. Christopher Marlowe rose is very disease-resistant, clean as 3rd-year-own-root, until I put gypsum (calcium sulfate), sulfate of potash, then topped with acidic cocoa mulch, pH 5.8, NPK 3-1-4.

In my last house with acidic clay, mulched with acidic pine bark (pH 4.5) .. my roses were wimpy disease-fest despite spraying.

Here's the result of mulching with acidic stuff which remains wet after watering: fungal germination, black spots on a very disease resistant rose: Christopher Marlowe, picture taken today Sept. 16.

Here is a link that might be useful: Suppression of fungi by soil bacteria

RE: Environmental reasons for NOT spraying with chemicals

It's good to see that you can grow Paul Neyron well. So many people have trouble with that rose. My Kathryn Morely is getting ready to have a big flush. The biggest fall flush I can ever remember so I'm excited. The only downside is I planted them on the wall to share with a neighbor and she passed away 6 years ago. New people came in and don't like rose branches overhanging so they cut off everything that goes over the fence line. I am keeping them shorter these days and maybe this winter I will move the tallest ones to somewhere else. They planted Jade plant on their side. They don't even like any Fuji apple hanging over. I am trying to keep anything from hanging over now since it bothers them.

Everything else is doing pretty good. Don't you grow J&P 's Enchanted Evening? I like that one too. And another one called Love Potion with a nice scent similar to Angel Face but stronger. We like many of the same roses as you said.

RE: Environmental reasons for NOT spraying with chemicals

Thank you, Kitty, for info. about scents. I don't have Enchanted Evening. I have Angel Face, very healthy here. Love Potion is on my wish-list, it's low-thorn, right?

Kitty, I'm happy that your roses have great fall flush! My roses bloom more when I put gypsum into my pH 8 tap water, rather than vinegar. I find that vinegar (acetic acid) really hurt plants, but useful in killing weeds.

Gypsum benefits plants more so than adding citric acid (for sprouting), or used lemons. I see immediate green-up, less rust, and more blooms with gypsum in my rock-hard alkaline clay. My clay is tested super-high in magnesium .. magnesium is what makes clay sticky. Magnesium also binds up with phosphorus, making it less available. I get better result with organic phosphorus than chemicals.

I did an experiment: I put my pH 8 tap water and sticky clay in a bottle. Then I added molasses (with trace elements & calcium & potassium). Then I added potassium sulfate NPK 0-0-50. It heated up, then solidified into concrete.

I added gypsum (calcium sulfate). Wait for a few hours, it changed from solid into liquid. Gypsum is used to release nutrients-tie-up from the hydrated lime added to tap water. It breaks up my clay really well. The $6.99 per 40 lbs. bag of gypsum from the feed store are tiny pellets, and dissolve well in my hard water.

RE: Environmental reasons for NOT spraying with chemicals

Purchased bare root from Sprout end of March 2013, transplanted to 5 gal pot, only organic pot soil & liquid VF-11 diluted, tap water if dried up, this is the 3rd flush, scented & lovely colour, first time buy Mini Flora, the named, Deja Blu.

RE: Environmental reasons for NOT spraying with chemicals

Thank you, seaweed, for that pic. of Deja Blu rose. I look it up: very fragrant, semi-thornless, 2' to 3' tall miniflora, sold at Chamblee nursery in Texas for $9.95 per gallon.

I got 4 roses in gallons from Chamblee in Texas, solid root ball, came with blooms. That nursery sends the heaviest roots that are worth the shipping cost.

RE: Environmental reasons for NOT spraying with chemicals

same time from Sprout market I got another mini flora, the name, Ambiance, $4.99 each. I am very pleased with both. They were so many of these two on sales during March. I knew both back in 2011, thought too delicate for me. They are under full sun, 5gal pot, Deja Blu has the same pink colour, but Ambiance lately lost its pale yellow tone, center is apricot colour and white on the edge, summer heat has bleached the colour. The photo was the first bloom back in May. I shall move them back to the patio, not direct sun.


RE: Environmental reasons for NOT spraying with chemicals

Thank you, Seaweed, for that lovely shot of Ambience rose. I have a few apricot roses: Summer Samba, Samaritan rose, Crown Princess Magareta, Versigny, Pat Austin ... they have better color in partial shade.

Below is Versigny rose, very disease-resistant. The bloom has a heavenly fruity scent, it's the best scent among my peachy roses.
 photo versigny1.jpg

RE: Environmental reasons for NOT spraying with chemicals

I found a May 13, 2013 article, see excerpts from the below link: "New research published in the Journal Neurology further supports the link between pesticide exposure and Parkinson’s disease.

Emanuel Cereda, M.D., Ph.D., of the IRCCS University Hospital San Matteo Foundation in Pavia, Italy, and coauthor Gianni Pezzoli, M.D., analyzed 104 studies published between 1975 and 2011 to determine the link between pesticides and solvents to Parkinson’s disease.

Researchers found exposure to pesticides increased the risk of developing the disease by 33 percent to 80 percent. Some pesticides were considered to be of higher risk than others, with weed killers like paraquat and FUNGICIDES MANEB AND MANCOZEB causing twice the risk for development of Parkinson’s disease.

Another recent publication found that rural residents who drank contaminated well water had an increased risk��"up to 90 percent��"of developing Parkinson’s.

People with Parkinson’s have a variety of symptoms including loss of muscle control, trembling and lack of coordination. They may also experience anxiety, constipation, dementia, depression, urinary difficulties and sleep disturbances.

At least 1 million Americans have Parkinson’s and about 50,000 new cases are diagnosed each year. With less than one percent of cases caused by genetics, researchers have been looking for the potential risk factors for developing Parkinson’s disease."

Here is a link that might be useful: Pesticides and Parkinson Disease

This post was edited by Strawberryhill on Tue, Nov 5, 13 at 18:03

RE: Environmental reasons for NOT spraying with chemicals

Colorado rosarian Stan composed an excellent list of chemicals toxic to bees. See link below:

Here is a link that might be useful: Bee-careful-what-you-spray by Stan

RE: Environmental reasons for NOT spraying with chemicals

Hi folks! I have not been here to Garden Web is some time. I was contacted my Strawberryhill and decided to come back as time permits to catch up. Great thread here folks!

RE: Environmental reasons for NOT spraying with chemicals

Hi Stan: Thanks for stopping by. Your blog has excellent info. for rose-growers, much appreciated.

Bayer, the maker of many chemicals for roses, is among the top offenders of corporate crimes, compiled by "Corporate Watch", here's some excerpts from link below:

"Bayer, IG Farben and World War II: Slave Labour and Deadly Gas
Bayer (along with BASF and Hoechst) was an original member of the IG Farben group. During WWII, IG Farben built a synthetic rubber and oil plant complex called Monowitz close to the Auschwitz concentration camp. Inmates worked as slave labour for IG Farben,[216] and when they were too weak to work they were killed in the gas chambers. "

"Bayer, IG Farben and Human Experiments[222]
IG Farben also conducted experiments on humans. Eva Mozes Kor, among the 1,500 sets of twins experimented on by the infamous Dr. Josef Mengele."

"Medicaid Scam[233]
The American unit of Bayer AG agreed to pay $14 million to settle charges of causing inflated Medicaid claims after defrauding the government by setting prices that were too high on drugs such as Kogenate and Koate-HP, used to treat haemophilia and Gamimmune, used to treat immune deficiency diseases"

Bayer donates over $500,000 a year to the American Heart Association (AHA), which may explain why the AHA has endorsed only Bayer aspirin.

PCB [255]
Bayer also produced polychlorinated biphenyls, or PCBs, under the trade name 'Clophen.' During the 1970s, the health risks associated with PCBs (including skin ailments, reproductive disorders and liver disease) became a major consideration due to several well-publicised incidents.

... See link below for other illegal toxic chemical dumps that Bayer did."

Here is a link that might be useful: Bayer war crimes, scams, bullying, and poisons

This post was edited by Strawberryhill on Tue, Jan 14, 14 at 14:29

RE: Environmental reasons for NOT spraying with chemicals

  • Posted by TNY78 7a-East TN (My Page) on
    Sat, Nov 9, 13 at 18:50

Hey Strawberry, I got your email the other day, but Gardenweb isn't letting me respond to it for whatever reason. Anyway, I know I haven't been on here alot recently. We've been building a new house, so I've been more focused on propogating roses I want to take with me, than adding new ones or photographing my existing ones. I'll be sure to post some feedback in the next couple of days regarding my experience with acidic red clay. Happy to hear your Blue Mist is doing well!

(by the way: completely see what you're saying about one person inparticular!)

RE: Environmental reasons for NOT spraying with chemicals

Hi Tammy: Good luck on your new house .. we had our house built 14 years ago and it was so much fun picking out the design, the carpet, the fireplace, etc..

Moyesii is a big organic-rose grower in New York. She posted many great pics. in HMF, rather than Roses forum, citing dislike for "corporate sleuths" who push for chemicals. I agree, Bayer defends its profit with many lies, see an excerpt from link below:

"Is Big Business Killing the Largest Labor Force on the Planet? The majority of the pesticides held responsible for the bee demise are produced by none other than Bayer Company. The toxic pesticides pulled by Germany are largely manufactured by Bayer. But Germany is not the first to make such a move. Back in 1999, France banned the use of imidacloprid, and rejected an application from Bayer for clothianidin this year. For Bayer, imidacloprid and clothianidin account for $1.25 billion in global annual sales.

Many hives were found in Florida recently to contain high levels of imidacloprid. A patented chemical, it is manufactured by Bayer. Out out of those 14 hives only one survived ... If you use Advantage on your cat or dog it is in your home already.

The most widely used applications for imidacloprid in California are pest control in structures, turf pest control, grape, lettuce, corn, fruits, cotton, etc.

In the case of bees, the imidacloprid apparently does not directly kill the hives, but disorients the bees and causes them to disband ... That's why, when Colony Collapse Disorder is the problem, no dead bees can be found near the hive. "

From Straw: In my 20 years of frequent visits to nearby Cantigny rose park (1,200 roses) ... I never see a butterfly, and saw a bee only one time. They spray their roses frequently with Bayer.

My neighbor has a 10 years old Angel Face rose, and hers is clean (no spray), despite Angel Face reputation for BS. Our soil is dolomitic-limestone clay, pH 7.7, with 40" of annual rain, and 36" of snow. Below is a picture of own-root Angel Face rose in my garden, no spray, and clean.

Here is a link that might be useful: Beecharmers on Bayer Corp.

This post was edited by Strawberryhill on Tue, Jan 14, 14 at 14:46

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