Sevin is not an organic solution. This very overused pesticide, either as a dust or liquid, is allowing many of the pests to develop immunity to it and in some places it has no affect on pests, potato growers in some places no longer use it to control the Colorado Potato Beetle reverting instead to Bacillus thuringiensis. This organophosphate nerve poison has also been linked to human health problems.
The best defense against JB's and any pest is to grow plants that are healthy and that starts with the soil. I have noticed the JBs don't hang around plants in beds that are more than 3 years old, but will hang onto plants in beds that have been under development for less than 3 years, apparently it takes the soil bacteria that long to get things under control or something. But plants grwoing in beds that have been well endowed with organic matter fro a while are just not attractive to the beetles.

People have already pointed out the disadvantages of Sevin...the stuff may work well, but, it is poison it is a general pesticide, it kills everything, especially bees, which are so important for so many things.
I hate the stuff!
Melva

SEVIN IS EVIL!!!!! AAAARGH.

Okay. I'll stop freaking out. Sevin is toxic to earthworms for up to 15 years after soil contact.

Also, since it accumulates in the fatty tissue, it is a chronic toxin that will accumulate in your pet's body over time. Why not just use program or adbantage, or ever a permethrin/pyrethrin product on your pet for fleas? Much less toxic, and you won't be slowly poisoning your pets.

ikoi

In our climate there is no organic solution for Japanese beetles as it is too cold for milky spore to grow in the soil. If there is a natural predator Cornell doesn't know of it. They recommend a soil drench definitely not organic called Imidacloprid in the Spring that will kill the grubs. Otherwise it is hand picking. I find some roses more bothered by them than others in the same bed same care sometimes next to each other. Carefree Beauty not bothered,
Rhode Island Red same and Alex Mckenzie not so much, a couple of others but now that it is winter I've forgotten the list. I'me thinking about going more to once bloomers to avoid the whole issue.

I've tried Sevin, Malathion, Methoxyclor, Bifenthrin and Rotenone. The last caused a lot of defoliation of Rugosa alba. The JB's danced in everything I tried maybe Bifenthrin slowed them down a bit. I think you have to kill the grubs to be able to control them. Some people here think the traps work as long as you keep them away from what you are trying to protect.

This is a lot of misinformation about Sevin (carbaryl). Sevin has been around since 1957 and has been subject of myriad test studies. If we're going to talk about Sevin at least refer to these studies.

First of all, Sevin does not have long residual activity anything like 15 years: "Carbaryl has a half-life of 7 to 14 days in sandy loam soil and 14 to 28 days in clay loam soil" (see fact sheet).

Sevin does not accumulate in the fatty tissues -- it passes out in the urine. It is non-mutagenic and non-carcinogenic.

Sevin does have toxic effect in humans well that's why we wear gloves and long sleeves. It is slightly toxic not highly toxic. The Sevin dust is labeled "Caution" which means slightly toxic not "Warning" or "Danger - Poison". It does not have chronic toxic effect, 85% passes out of you body in the first 24 hours.

"Carbaryl is practically nontoxic to wild bird species."

The part about toxic to bees is right; so we have to use it responsibly.

Here is a link that might be useful: Sevin toxicology fact sheet

Is it just my imagination or are JBs more attracted to light colored roses than to dark ones? I am not having too many beetles this year. I did a lot of digging this Spring and squashed about a million grubs. I have found a few JBs on roses, but only on yellows or very light pinks.

Linda

JBs are much more attracted to light colored roses and to fragrant roses than to dark, non-fragrant ones. If you cut all the buds of these when the sepals split and bring them in the house, you can enjoy all the roses you want, plus somewhat fewer beetles will be attracted to the rose patch.

What Kubota says about Sevin is correct, but applying it to flowers is really bad (and against the label statement), because it will wipe out all pollinators who visit.

If your climate is too cold for Milky Spore disease to work in the sod, there is a new chemical treatment that is better than Merit because it only affects immature white grubs such as JB, chafer, and June bug youngsters. It is Scott's GrubEx containing Mach2. Check the label, because older packages of GrubEx contain Merit (imidacloprid).

If Milky Spore is recommended for your area, it is a superior solution because one application can work indefinitely.

Connie, if your husband is concerned about violence against JBs, tell him you are trying to teach them to swim. (Good line stolen from the distinguished Megsrose.)

Treating the turf with Milky Spore or Mach2 needs to be done exactly according to label directions and at the right time of year (coming up soon, depending on location).

That referenced "fact sheet" was last updated in 1996 and contains gross misinformation. Studies at the University of Florida Medical School, University of California Medical Schools, and one of the Texas medical schools into chronic health problems of migrant workers is finding the all of these people have worked in fields were Sevin was the leading pesticide used, often being sprayed while these people were out in the fields working. Sevin is being found in their body fat and organs, although a direct link to health roblems has not been estblished.
Keep in mind that Extoxnet is mostly supported by the industry that makes this stuff.

Kimm1, I'd be glad to see sources for your information. I agree there's no place for Sevin in the organic garden, or I would say, any home garden. It is an indiscriminate killer of beneficial predators as well as pollinators, generally incompatible with an IPM approach. On the other hand an organic substitue like rotenone, though environmentally better, may be significantly more dangerous for people.

Extoxnet is written by ag school/ag extension toxicologists who identify with the interests of farmers. They may be somewhat inclined to downplay the hazards of chemicals that are economically beneficial to farmers, and we should keep that in mind when reading the profiles. Still, everything there is based on controlled research and is relatively trustworthy.

Michael

Please tell me what Milkey Spore is and where can you buy it.
The beatles are having a field day with my roses.

Ellie

Go to the Gardener's Supply catalog. They have the milky spore (a microorganism) and the Grub Guard beneficial nematodes. The two of these will eventually reduce the JB's in your lawn. You can kill the adults with Safer's BioNeem insecticide. This also repels them.

Here is a link that might be useful: Gardener's Supply

When you've tried all of the above and you are sick of seeing no results and your rose crop damaged you will want to use this:

Here is a link that might be useful: Bayer Rose & Flower Insect Killer

Milky Spore Disease, Bacillus popilliae, is a bacterium, spores of a disease that need to be ingested by the target species and only become active in the gut of the target insect where they grow and kill the bugger. While most every other means of controlling grubs in the lawn is targeted toward spring applications, studies at Michigan State University have shown that is the wrong time of year to attempt to control them since they are too large to be affected by most "stuff" and shortly after coming close to the surface pupate into the adults that fly around, annoy us, mate, and lay eggs that hatch in about mid August which is the time to apply "stuff" to control them.
Connie probably did not think she would still be getting "stuff" about this subject a year later.

I can see why not to use a fruit baited trap, but why not a light baited trap? JBs are attracted to every light bulb on the planet. If you hang one more, I can't see that attracting more to your property.

Try this trap. Hang a light bulb over a 5-gallon bucket half full of soapy water. Turn on the bulb at night and compost the JBs in the morning. I've heard of thousands per night being caught during the particularly bad invasions.

My organic method for JB control is 2 pair of ducks in the garden. They eat the buggers with relish (with joy, not with the condiment) and I suspect they are getting some of the larvae too, although I don't see that part.

A park 2 blocks doen the street from us has sooo many JB's that they land on me & my child constantly, but at our place we have only an occasional one that survives long enough for me to be the one to snatch it from the roses.

Plus, the ducks are a heck of a lot better for you & the garden than Sevin or Bayer chemicals, and a whole lot more fun.

Hello, I am from Australia and I have a terrible problem with this bugs - we call them Harlequin bugs! They seem to prefer hot dry climates and the bred or really like Marshmallow week anything from the Hollyhock or malva family. Last year when we chopped two large gum trees on our property - literally millions swarmed out from un the the bark or from the crevices of the branches. I have been told the Guinea fowl love to eat them and in turn you can eat the fowl only down side I am told is that these fowls have a horrid loud sreech which penetrates your very soul - from first light to sunset.
Best solution is squishing them with fingers or dropping them into a bucket of soapy water, neem is not very effective anything else in not safe.
Hope this helps

Since I have never seen a Japanese beetle (knock, knock), I'm directing this question to some of you rosarians over toward the East Coast. Are these bugs actually attracted to light bulbs as Dchall has suggested and as our June beetles are?

No, japanese beetles are not attracted to light. They are not active at night at all. The beetles Dchall may be thinking of could be June beetles or Asiatic garden beetles, which are attracted to light bulbs at night. Those two are also pests, but nowhere near as prevalent in areas with major jb infestations.

If your area has a major infestation, there is not much you can do to eliminate them. Milky Spore or Beneficial Nematodes applied to the lawn sometimes helps reduce their numbers (over time, as in several years) but will not make them all disappear. Especially if their grubs are living in your neighbors' lawns.

Anyone who thinks they can be controlled by traps, hand-picking, or an organic control does not have a major infestation. These bugs will push you over the edge if you are an organic gardener who grows roses. I will be trying Bayer Rose & Flower and this is the first chemical spray I have ever purchased in my life, but it's either that or having every single rose ruined until late August when the jbs lay their eggs in the ground and the beetles stop eating.

There was a request for health-literature articles regarding Sevin. Here is one.

Title: Agricultural exposure to carbamate pesticides and risk of non-hodgkin lymphoma.

Authors: Zheng, Tongzhang; Zahm, Shelia Hoar; Cantor, Kenneth P.; Weisenburger, Dennis D.; Zhang, Yawei; Blair, Aaron.

Authors affiliation: Yale University School of Public Health, USA.

Published in: Journal of Occupational and Environmental Medicine, volumn 43, pages 641-649, (2001).

Abstract: "Recent epidemiol. studies have suggested an increased risk of non-Hodgkin lymphoma (NHL) from carbamate insecticide use among farmers. To further explore the possible relationships, we conducted a pooled anal. of three population-based case-control studies conducted in four midwestern states in the United States. A total of 985 white male subjects and 2895 control subjects were included in this anal. Unconditional logistic regression was used to est. the assocn. and control for confounding. Compared with nonfarmers, farmers who had ever used carbamate pesticides had a 30% to 50% increased risk of NHL, whereas farmers without carbamate pesticide use showed no increased risk. Analyses for individual carbamate pesticides found a more consistent assocn. with Sevin but not carbofuran, butylate, or S-Et dipropylthiocarbamate plus protectant. Among farmers using Sevin, the risk of NHL was limited to those who personally handled the product, those who first used the product for ³20 yr before their disease diagnosis, and those who used the product for a longer period. These assocns. persisted after adjusting for other major classes of pesticides. These results suggest an increased risk of NHL assocd. with carbamate pesticide use, particularly Sevin. Further investigation of the assocn. is warranted."

Perhaps this link would be helpful. It gives a little more information about imidicloprid the active ingredient in Merit and Bayer rose & flower insect killer.

Here is a link that might be useful: Imidicloprid

Is there a time of year to dust with milky spore? also, how often should you spray for adults?

"Recent epidemiol. studies have suggested an increased risk of non-Hodgkin lymphoma (NHL) from carbamate insecticide use among farmers."

It is one thing to consider the exposure of adults to carbamate pesticides, and quite another to consider the affect upon children. I have two nephews, both living in CT, from different branches of the family, each diagnosed with NHL about the age of three. One forgets that children spend a lot of time on the floor playing and crawling around. Chemicals sprayed on the lawn, garden, and golf course migrate into the house on the soles of shoes and with pets. Carbamate pesticides "innocently" spread throughout our communities by well meaining gardeners and lawn care specialists could well be poisoning our children whose brains and other areas of the nervous system are in a rapid state of growth and therefor highly susceptible to these chemicals.

There are a lot of varieties of birds that will feast on these little buggers. I had a mockingbird on one bush just pecking away at them. Seems there are a lot fewer since I have increased the number of bird houses and baths in my yards. I dont put out feeders because I am hoping they will feast on the bugs.

I have a terrible japanese beetle problem. I tried BT - seems to work a little bit but I live near a nursery and i fear they are flying in from there.
So I guess I will truly never be rid of them. I knock them off or in desperation I have chopped of entire branches of a rose and destroyed them that way. Yes - they are more attracted to lighter buds. They generally stayed away from the darker reds.
Some roses they totally decimated were: Henry Hudson, nearly wild, Fair Bianca. The ones they left alone were Grootendoorst, and some dark red Austins.
I had a construction crew destroy my entire rose bed so I am starting from scratch except for one Blanc double de coubert which survived both construction and J.beetles - one tough rose!. (It does not have any re-bloom even though it is touted in catalogs as having such.)
I am replacing with once bloomers - I currently have a tuscany superb which they do not bother either. so perhaps you can take that tack - go with once bloomers, the beetles do not come out here until mid-July - by then all the tasty blooms are gone.
You also may want to make sure you do not have any other host plants near the roses that would attract also. I noticed they really went nuts on a weed patch of knotweed that was in my yard. Got rid of that real fast!
I also planted four-o-clocks near the roses. I read somewhere that helps. It seemed to I don't know the reason though.

It seems to me those interested in a natural approach to pest control should work first and foremost toward identifying controls at work in the pest's native ecosystem. I, for one, would gladly take all the money I have spent on Sevin and Bayer and put it toward funding a study of population controls at work in the Japanese Beetle's home ecosytem (in Japan), with an eye toward importing them to the US. Just a thought...

I heard on the regular Roses forum that purple coneflowers work well. They attract beetles AND the birds that love to devour them. I'm trying it next year.

I like the idea of ducks too. But with our dog, that would only last for about 10 minutes!

Angela

My Aunt & Uncle advised they gave up trying to grow roses because of the JB problem they had.

I, looking back, have been lucky as I also grow grapes for wine & eating. The JBs eat the top leaves and leave the roses alone. Viticulturist love JBs. They used to hire workers to remove the top leaves. Now JBs do it for them free.

That was my case until "someone" sprayed the grapes with Sevin and they moved to the roses. They like the Rugosas best.

Anyone want to buy some Sevin?

all this talk of jbs leads me to wonder are their any links to what they looklike. and what climate is milky spore disease good to. sorry i mean zone.

p.s pardon me my baby is desperately trying to help me type.

moonwolf, click on the link for a thread on the Rose Gallery with some frightening pictures of JBs and the damage they can do. There is also a post within the thread from klimkm in Z5 who is using milky spore.

Here is a link that might be useful: Need Japanese Beetles picture

shudder.. OH uck.

Iowa jade, why is eating the top leaves of the grape plant good? Light to the berry????

I mostly let the birds take care of JBs, unless there are unsually large number of them, then I'll handpick.

Bird Baths with clean water, placed among roses will attract plenty of birds to come to quench their thirst, take a bath, and snack on the JBs. From the sunroom, I enjoy looking at them perching among the roses, rested after drinking and eating.

Can anyone give specific dates as to when to apply milky spore and nematodes for zone 6? The adults are already out and EVERYWHERE! Also, I live in the woods, so asking neighbors is not a possibility. Is this going to ruin my chance of ever ridding myself and my roses (grass) of these beasts?

I have Japanese Beatles devouring my Roses & Zinnias as well as other plants & trees. I have been using a homemade Insecticide spray which consists of: 8oz. 3% Hydrogen
Peroxide, 8 oz Sugar, 1 tsp MurphyÂs Oil Soap, mixed in 1 gal water. This spray worked great to kill the worms on my broccoli plants, but the Japanese Beatles is another story. :( When I spray the pesky bugs it seems to temporarily prevent them from flying. I can then pick them off and drop them into a bucket of soapy water, where they ultimately die. Has anyone found something better? I donÂt have all day every day to stand guard of my plants against this enemy! I also have been concerned about the effects of to much Hydrogen Peroxide on the leaves of some of the flowers. I donÂt want to resort to non-organic measures but I donÂt want to loose my Roses etc.

My neighbour and I are willing to try nematodes this fall for the next couple years to see what happens. I friend of mine who worked for a lawn care company says that nematodes will only work if the grub population in your soil is less than 10 grubs per square foot. Anything higher than that will overpower the nematodes, and defeat the whole purpose. You have to do a soil aeration, and apply the nematodes in the fall to ensure they get into the soil.

BTW - My neighbour who is strictly an organic gardener has given up on roses, period! We get horrible infestations of both chafers, and Japanese Beetles. Unless some sort of cloth/net barrier is used, it's useless growing them organically. In fact, most organic growers around here refuse to grow roses simply because THEY CAN'T! Then again, things come in cycles where some years the populations might be slightly more tolerable than others, but I haven't seen that yet.

The Royal Botanical Gardens in Burlington, Ontario, has a two acre rose garden, and can't grow them organically for this reason alone, which says alot!

I wanted to ask about the need to aerate the soil for using nematodes. I just applied the type they use against fireants down here in Texas. No word of needing to aerate the soil first was mentioned, but I do see the reasoning, to give them a good chance to get down in there!

These that I bought just said to apply to moist ground in temps below 85 degrees F. A nice thunderstorm provided the moisture, and the temp was 70 something, so I had hopes that the little 'todes were in there doing their work... it has only been 3 days, way too soon to tell...

My daughter and I just got the first rose plant for our garden this spring. When the Japanese beetles started appearing all over the Rose of Sharon and the crape myrtles, we feared for the little buds! We went to the fabric store and bought netting to match the color of the new leaves (a wine color) and 1/8 in. ribbon of the same color. I made some small drawstring bags with a round bottom. Then we inverted the bags over the rosebuds and pulled the ribbon snug. The round bottom allowed the blossoms to open out, and the netting wasn't so noticeable as the roses are a deep red.

I have to tell you that we only had 5 buds this year. We'll have to think of something better for next year. Plus, the roses are prettier when not in a net bag. But we couldn't stand the idea of chunks being bitten out of the buds.

Do any of you know of any plants that either repel or really attract JBs?

I noticed this year that the wild geranium (perennial) plants I had were a tasty feast for the JBs. I was thinking of yanking them out (they're right next to some roses that ended up somewhat decimated!). Not sure, though, if they're attracting more JBs to the yard (ad thus to the roses) or if they're pulling JBs away from some of the roses to feast instead on the geranium...

Just wondering...

thanks!

-Amy.

Well... I do not blame the Japanese Beatles for destroying my Japanese Maples but rather I blame my neighbors. I tried to convince them to apply grub killer to help control/kill Japanese Beatles... And none (yes none) of them cared...
So I say: My neighbors need to die!!! :-) ( sorry to offend those who believe" "love thy neighbors")

I've tried the milky spore treatment but my neighbors don't do anything about their lawns so the adults fly over to my garden. I tried spraying neem old this summer and it did absolutely nothing!

I grow quite a few once-blooming old roses, and one of the reasons I don't mind their short blooming season is that they are usually finished by the time the JBs start to attack. While I lose the second and third flushes of roses to the JBs, the old roses have already put out as many or more blooms in 3-4 weeks as some of the repeaters put out all season only to lose 3/4 of them to pests. Sometimes I feel like giving up on the rest of my roses. So now I'm making plans for spring planting I am keeping this in mind and ordering more gallicas, albas, damasks, etc. These are also very hardy and blackspot resistant too.

A drought would be helpful, as that seems to reduce the population the following year by killing grubs naturally. We've had two wet summers and it's been the worse I ever remember. I can fill a bucket of soapy water full of adult beetles, and come back an hour later and my roses will be covered again.

I tried milky spore - did not work very well. I think it is too cold here.

This season I am trying a test bed with just NEEM. I tried neem last year - it was in the safer fungicide3 product. But the percentage of neem in that product was extremely low. I think it did not do enough. I will buy straight neem and apply it in a higher percentage spray and try that. I really would like to be able to rely on the neem it is so environmentally friendly.

Others on these forums have been recommending products with imidacloprid. Such as Bayer and Merit. I have heard glowing reports on this although I do not know how organic and environmentally friendly this product is. Perhaps when applied at the correct time of day it will minimize contact with the "good" bugs.

I have good luck with keepin the hybrid teas fairly beetle free because I only have a few bushes and they are for cutting only. If I can go out early in the AM and cut the buds before the beetles get them. I can bring them in the house and the tea roses open up nicely. I try to pick varieties that are good for cutting. This has worked for me. Basically I have no roses on the HTs for 6-8 weeks each summer.

Although the 2004 infestation was the worst ever. Usually they last from Mid-July for about 4-6 weeks. This year they began July 4th weekend and lasted until the first hard freeze. Decimating every yellow rose and fragrant rose I have.

They have no predators by me - I have heard tales that starlings like them, though I am in a semi-rural area and starlings like cities. (where there are no high beetle problems).

Good luck next season all! I have updated regarding my wars with the beetles on my page...I update when I have new relevant beetle news!

I do not know what a JB is. Do we have them in So. CA? I guess the chew the flower buds?

Someone earlier mentioned using coneflowers to distract JBs. I have 2 Rugosas in a bed which also has purple coneflowers. The JBs eat both. With the level of infestation I have, the coneflowers don't make a difference.

Ok...I will try anything to rid my yard of these things. I don't care about the grubs...just the THOUSANDS clinging to every shred of vegetation in my yard. ORTHO and two other sprays doesn't work, even when sprayed directly onto them.

My neighors are obviously infested, as when I shake any plant, they fly off in every direction to further infest the neighborhood. I'm goin' nuclear if anyone has a suggestion on what to use aside from a blow torch!

My JB's aren't too awful. I limit my efforts to walking the roses two or three times a day with a small bucket of soapy water and knocking them in (there is something perversely joyful about catching a pair "in the act" and flicking them into the bucket).
I have about a dozen Bonicas along a fence. Being light pink, they seem to be number one on the JB's list of favs. Anyway, a couple have been relatively bug free and I've been trying to decide why. I'm ready to attribute it to a stand of feverfew that reseeded in the area.
I have larkspur too, but it grows all along the fence. The feverfew is just around the two bugless bushes. I have so many bees and butterflies around my roses anything potentially toxic to them is a big NO. Also, I am very fond of my lightening bugs / fire flys (depending on where your from) and they like to hang out around the roses too.
Once bloomers seem to be a good way to go, but I absolutely love roses in the fall.

I found an awesome, inexpensive, and safe way to kill those darn beatles!!!! Just spray with Dawn dish detergent and water!!!! Just two tablespoons in a 32oz container does the trick very nicely. Wash off the dead beatles and soapy water after dry. So cheap I do it every day! Sure beats picking them off one by one!

Great suggestion to use Dawn dish soap, works so well. My neighbors and I spray for those bugs often during the day. Kills them true and sure. Makes bug hunting kind of fun. The spray kills many different kinds of bugs. Happy hunting!

Thanks for the tip about Dawn soap. One year I bought those traps that hang on trees. They attract even more beetles - that was my worst in 12 years! We have lots of birds over the year, and the beetles decreased down to 4 per day. There's one link that advised people NOT to water their lawn, so beetles can't hatch.

This article does not have a date.
"Several natural predators eat Japanese beetles. Among birds, only starlings eat the beetles, but several others
eat the larvae in the spring. Several beneficial insects including Assassin bugs and Tiphia wasps attack
Japanese beetle larvae."

"Alternatives to pesticides for lawn grubs include: (1) Milky spore disease. However, it is not very effective in
New York State except on Long Island, since our cold winter temperatures kill off the spores in winter and
successful treatment depends upon a build-up of the disease. (2) Although research is not yet totally conclusive, a better choice to try is the parasitic nematode, in the Steinernema species, which seem to provide some control. Watch for information on beneficial nematodes becoming available for Japanese beetle control,
as future research progresses."
-----------------------------------
H. Kuska comment: In northern Ohio I use both Milky Spore and beneficial nematodes. We also have 3 bird feeders along our rose beds, and my wife (the family bird expert) says that starlings are regular visitors. I get some beetles but not enough to be concerned about.

Here is a link that might be useful: Cornell article