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Mister Lincoln & stuff

Posted by jim1961 6a Central Pa. (My Page) on
Tue, Aug 12, 14 at 9:59

I decided to start a new thread.....

First off Strawberryhill Bayourose asked you a question about roses in "Bouquet of No Spary roses thread...

Farmerduck from NJ planted a Plum Perfect Rose this Spring but it never bloomed so I suggested he check for Rose Midge. He wrote back and said it looked like his garden may be full of Rose Midge.

Question: How can we protect ourselves from Rose Midge coming from vendors in the potted soil or on the rose plant itself???

Maybe soak the entire pot and plant underwater for awhile???

Our Mister Lincoln in a container is blooming... Right now I have him on the back porch because of thunder storms and rain. You know what that can do to blooms..lol

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I thought the Yellow Marigolds I planted around the Double Knockout rose bed was to bright. It seemed to take the focus off the red roses...

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SO I found these softer yellow shaded Marigolds which I'll try next year. I just ordered 4 packs of seeds...

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This post was edited by jim1961 on Tue, Aug 12, 14 at 10:08


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Mister Lincoln & stuff

Hi Jim: I absolutely adore that shade of marigolds ... I like light yellow, so cheerful. Marigolds look nice around red-double-knockout.

I agree with you about soaking the ENTIRE plant in a bucket of water to drown the eggs & midge. Here's an excerpt from the below link: "The rose midge are mosquito-like in shape and they are 1-2 mm in length. They emerge from pupae in the soil early in the spring ... a single generation, or life cycle, can be as short as two weeks.

Females lay their eggs inside the sepals of flower buds or leafy tips. The larvae then hatch from the eggs and damage the buds and rose tips."

Here is a link that might be useful: Rose Midge pictures


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RE: Mister Lincoln & stuff

Hi Jim: Too bad Rose of Hope doesn't have the big bloom ... and it's off your buy-list. While going through Passion Fruit Garden website, I found this excerpt: "In 1875, Jean-Baptiste Guillot (the breeder of ‘La France’) crossed the China Rose ‘Old Blush’ with rosa multiflora, a species that produces large clusters of flowers. From this cross came the Polyanthas, a class of roses, small in stature, but resilient and hardy. They were also remarkable for their ability to produce masses of small flowers in clusters, providing a continuous display of colour through summer. Then the Danish breeder Svend Poulsen started crossing Polyantha Roses with Hybrid Teas, and the Floribunda rose was the result. (Old-Fashioned Roses James Young).

During humid and rainy weather, the polyanthas in my garden are healthy & bloom lots .... thanks to their multiflora parentage. The hybrid teas are the 1st one to get BS during wetness, then the floribundas are next. I'm leaning toward polyanthas to grace my garden, and other types for the vase. Baby-Faurax polyantha sold at Burlington has the most amazing spicy fragrance, similar to Intrigue floribunda. Baby-Faurax polyantha can take tons of wetness, versus Intrigue become BS-fest.

Here is a link that might be useful: China Doll polyantha in Passion Fruit Garden


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RE: Mister Lincoln & stuff

  • Posted by jim1961 6a Central Pa. (My Page) on
    Tue, Aug 12, 14 at 14:45

Thanks for info on the Rose Midge! I'll start soaking roses in a bucket from now on to drown any pests or eggs.

Yes I've heard HT's and Floribundas BS easier than other classes of roses.
I'm alittle nervous to be trying the floribunda "Easy Does It" for next year for that reason... (Probably a mistake but gotta find out so I can move on..)
Do your Austins do ok in your locale? BS wise?
Reason I ask is Paul Barden wrote a article on Austins...
I just realized the Paul Barden article is older so it will not include modern updated info and roses...

Let me know how growing polyanthas works out...
Sounds interesting...

Here is a link that might be useful: Paul Barden

This post was edited by jim1961 on Tue, Aug 12, 14 at 15:29


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RE: Mister Lincoln & stuff

Hi Jim: You are right that the Paul Barden article is OLDER ... he talked about Charles Darwin as a BS-fest. But that was GRAFTED ON DR.HUEY.

I bought Charles Darwin rose as own-root from Chamblee's. It was 100% clean, even in wet spring. Why own-root Austins are healthy? Because the root can expand horizontally to fetch water, and such surface roots won't be so water-logged as a straight-stick-down Dr. Huey.

Why Austins roses are such BS-fest grafted on Dr. Huey? It's NOT a good idea to tie-up a water-hog to water-miser & drought-tolerant like Dr. Huey. That's incompatible. It's best to set the water-hog's roots FREE as own-root, so it can expand & MORE EFFICIENT in getting water & nutrients.

Water-hogs grafted on Dr. Huey are NOT efficient, since water & nutrients have to go through a GRAFTED junction, before getting to the plant. That junction may be a long & constricted narrow pathway, or damaged in dry-storage, or damaged in wet and acidic clay. Below is Austin rose Christopher Marlowe, 100% clean in late July. That one has smaller leaves & glossy foliage, and can take heavy rain well.


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RE: Mister Lincoln & stuff

  • Posted by jim1961 6a Central Pa. (My Page) on
    Tue, Aug 12, 14 at 19:22

Strawberryhill, are Austins water-hogs because of there many petaled flowers? Austins do not seem to have big leaves so I'm guessing it probably is the many petals?


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RE: Mister Lincoln & stuff

  • Posted by jim1961 6a Central Pa. (My Page) on
    Wed, Aug 13, 14 at 10:24

enchantedrose, you mentioned you were having alittle trouble getting seeds started at times.

Here's a seedling heating mat I use to start our flower seeds. I put zinnia and Marigold seeds in cups with MG potting mix soil then I cover cups with saran wrap.
I place cups on heating mat and 99% of the seeds started sprouting within 3-5 days then I take the saran wrap off and give seedlings light.
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Strawberryhill, (Bayourose sent you a thank you in the bouquet of No Spray roses thread.)

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RE: Mister Lincoln & stuff

  • Posted by jim1961 6a Central Pa. (My Page) on
    Wed, Aug 13, 14 at 10:53

Mister Lincoln is in his final stage of bloom... I still have him on the porch as we got heavy rains yesterday and its been steadily raining all day today...


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RE: Mister Lincoln & stuff

Hi Jim: I adore those pics. of Mr. Lincoln. Too bad our zone 5a is too cold for that one. Thanks for the picture of seedling heating mat. I look for them in the stores. It's cheaper to plant from seeds, than buy gallon-plants.


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RE: Mister Lincoln & stuff

  • Posted by jim1961 6a Central Pa. (My Page) on
    Wed, Aug 13, 14 at 12:06

Thanks Strawberryhill and yes its probably too cold in your zone for Mister Lincoln.

ML has been here since May of 2010...

ML has been very blackspot and mildew resistant here.

But ML is not the greatest bloomer as he takes his good ole time and gives you blooms when he wants too...lol
Our ML hates cooler weather and down right refuses to bloom when he has got the chills so he does not bloom much toward fall here...

But his blooms are nice and smell really good and combined with great resistant to diseases I'll keep him around.


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RE: Mister Lincoln & stuff

  • Posted by jim1961 6a Central Pa. (My Page) on
    Wed, Aug 13, 14 at 15:49

Our soil is soft clay but from years of putting compost, mulch, leaves, etc. as a top dressing the first 2-3 inches are loose now...
The bare ground no longer gets hard and cracks like it did years ago.

We have planted tomato plants in that area now for the past few years..

By putting alittle pressure on this garden tool in the pic it easily goes into the soil.
I can dig a large planting hole in a couple minutes...

But a thick layer (4-5 inches) of wood mulch keeps the soil to wet so I'll use thin layers from now on. (1/2-1 inch)

I'll be applying homemade compost under and around our roses. ( Alittle out past dripline so compost covers the entire root system of our roses.)
Wood Mulch in thin layers will be applied everywhere else so our pets paws do not get muddy...

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RE: Mister Lincoln & stuff

  • Posted by jim1961 6a Central Pa. (My Page) on
    Wed, Aug 13, 14 at 18:47

I encourage these guys to our garden by supplying food in the way of a hummingbird feeder and flowers...

I have read where hummingbirds eat aphids and other pests...

I just took these pics a few minutes ago:

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RE: Mister Lincoln & stuff

Nice clay you got, Jim. I notice that the areas where I put many layers of horse manure & alfalfa meal are very fluffy, much better than the dense clay at the bottom of the hole .. which I always trash along with the big rocks.


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RE: Mister Lincoln & stuff

  • Posted by jim1961 6a Central Pa. (My Page) on
    Wed, Aug 13, 14 at 19:18

Thanks!

Yes horse manure and Alfalfa meal would make soil fluffy too... :-)
Awesme!


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RE: Mister Lincoln & stuff

  • Posted by jim1961 6a Central Pa. (My Page) on
    Wed, Aug 13, 14 at 22:04

I'm going to get (Kordes) Brilliant Veranda for next year...
Orange/Red blooms that average 2.5 inches in size.
Size of bush averages 2' x 3'
I'll be growing Brilliant Veranda in a large container...

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Here is a link that might be useful: Brilliant Veranda rose

This post was edited by jim1961 on Wed, Aug 13, 14 at 23:03


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RE: Mister Lincoln & stuff

Wow! That Kordes rose is amazing ... looks good with white alyssum. I'm sure that would attract more hummingbird. I bought a feeder that didn't work ... the birds were attracted to my red bee-balm instead. We get lots of hummingbirds for the past decade, thanks to the red bee-balm perennials.

What's exciting in my garden is seeing an occasional blue-jay, those are rare. We get lots of gold finch, cardinals, and hummingbirds, but only once a year blue-jay.


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RE: Mister Lincoln & stuff

  • Posted by jim1961 6a Central Pa. (My Page) on
    Thu, Aug 14, 14 at 10:35

Blue Jays come here but only once a year like you mention.
I get so excited when I see them because I love their colors...lol

Hummingbirds here even like the red Double Knockout blooms. I see them on the D-Ko's quite often.
They visit the zinnias etc.

I always heard Hummingbirds loved Bee Balm but I never tried it yet. :-)


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RE: Mister Lincoln & stuff

  • Posted by jim1961 6a Central Pa. (My Page) on
    Thu, Aug 14, 14 at 12:23

Another bloom on Lincoln opened:

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RE: Mister Lincoln & stuff

  • Posted by jim1961 6a Central Pa. (My Page) on
    Thu, Aug 14, 14 at 14:40

I just took these pics today:

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RE: Mister Lincoln & stuff

  • Posted by jim1961 6a Central Pa. (My Page) on
    Thu, Aug 14, 14 at 15:35

I wonder what these purple alyssum would look like flowing around those softer yellow Marigolds I'm putting in the red Double Knockout bed???

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This post was edited by jim1961 on Thu, Aug 14, 14 at 15:36


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RE: Mister Lincoln & stuff

Purple would look great with yellow. I have lots of purple alyssum in my garden to complement the yellow Calendula. You are so good & sneaky with insects ... Bees always fly away when I approach them.


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RE: Mister Lincoln & stuff

  • Posted by jim1961 6a Central Pa. (My Page) on
    Thu, Aug 14, 14 at 20:12

No sneaking....lol
I work outside around these bumblebees all the time. I do not bother them and they do not bother me...
They just stay right on the flowers while I deadhead...
The other day I was cutting zinnias for a vase I would cut them and give to my wife to take in the house.
I gave a handful to my wife and she took them in the house and she was in their about 1 minute then she came back out and said you gave me a flower with a bee on it...lol
That bee stayed on the flower while she carried it around...lol
I had to hold it for another minute before it finally flew away...


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RE: Mister Lincoln & stuff

  • Posted by jim1961 6a Central Pa. (My Page) on
    Thu, Aug 14, 14 at 22:24

One of the roses I'm trying next year is Earthsong (Buck)...
Here's a short video of Earthsong in a no spray, no pruning, no fertilizer, no deadheading section of a rose park in Ohio about 5 hours from us here in Central Pa...

Here is a link that might be useful: Earthsong video


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RE: Mister Lincoln & stuff

Easy ways to make compost video...

Here is a link that might be useful: compost video


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RE: Mister Lincoln & stuff

thanks, Jim, for those great videos. I like the compost video ... lots of good ideas. I use my compost pile for the planting hole, rather than on the surface. I keep the surface around roses DRY and ALKALINE, to prevent pests and fungi from germination. The horse manure is drier than my clay, and the ENCAP dry compost is much drier than my homemade-stuff.


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RE: Mister Lincoln & stuff

  • Posted by jim1961 6a Central Pa. (My Page) on
    Fri, Aug 15, 14 at 15:08

Yes those darn pests and fungi... I'll have to look up ENCAP dry compost... Thanks!

I did something today I probably should not have...lol
When I planted the Double Knockout bed I spaced them 3 1/2 ft apart on centers except the last rose I screwed up and planted it 4 1/2 ft on center SO 1ft off! :-O
Well I noticed it along time ago but never corrected it.
SO today I moved the last rose over 1ft to correct the spacing.
Darn rootball fell apart on me... :-O
SO I planted quickly and watered watered watered!

It was a cooler day with clouds but sun did come out from time to time so I decided to shade it with a large umbrella.. The leaves look a bit limp so it will probably get transplant shock...

I like to keep that rootball intact with soil but things happen I guess... :-/

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RE: Mister Lincoln & stuff

Hi Jim: That's a clever idea, shading with an umbrella. Knock-out recuperate from a move much slower than other own-roots, perhaps from the extensive root-system. I moved a few Knock-outs before, and it took 2 months before they regained new leaves.

There are a few roses which I dug up to fix my soil. Zero new growth, until I topped with alfalfa hay. Will post that in alfalfa thread.


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RE: Mister Lincoln & stuff

  • Posted by jim1961 6a Central Pa. (My Page) on
    Fri, Aug 15, 14 at 19:09

yes your right strawberryhill knockouts come back slowly after a move...
I get that same result here...

ok on the alfalfa thread...


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RE: Mister Lincoln & stuff

  • Posted by jim1961 6a Central Pa. (My Page) on
    Sat, Aug 16, 14 at 10:18

Leaves on the Double Knockout look good this morning except for some red tender growth at the tips which may die...

It got down to 49 degrees last night so that helped out.
It's alittle after 10 am and we are still only around 59 degrees now.
It is suppose to reach 78 degrees today.
I still have the umbrella over him to keep him shaded. I'll probably keep doing that for a few days..

When I transplant roses I do not cut back the top growth I let the rose decide how much top growth it can handle with the now smaller root system. I will cut some off later if needed...

I had to switch umbrellas and now it looks like D-Ko is at the beach...lol

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When I first planted D-Ko's I only planted 3... I tried placing 2 double big bang spireas in between but that did not look so well...lol
Plus the cats would lay inside the spireas it would ruin that area and really look bad...

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This post was edited by jim1961 on Sat, Aug 16, 14 at 10:43


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RE: Mister Lincoln & stuff

That looks very nice, Jim. I wish I have a big stand-up umbrella like that ... do lots of uprooting roses in my garden. A puzzle that I haven't solve yet: why are roses healthy prior to a flush, then a decline & BS-fest after done with blooming? Wikipedia wrote about acid-phosphatase of plant's root, so I suspect that to produce blooms, roses secret acid to draw nutrients from soil, and that same acid also lowers the leaves' pH, to make it more susceptible to fungal invasion.

BUFFERING AGENT is needed to UP the pH of leaves, in the buds-stage. My tiny Sharifa Asma was 100% healthy with 4 blooms. Once the blooms are done, leaves break out in spots & NOT healthy. My Austin roses were healthy in previous years since I applied horse manure 3 times, prior to each flush.

If the horses are fed with alfalfa pellets fortified with copper and zinc (two strongest anti-fungal nutrients) ... then that manure will help to suppress fungal growth in roses. I checked on zinc and copper: my local feed store carries alfalfa pellets fortified with those 2, plus beneficial bacteria. The horse forum link below discussed about how zinc and copper helps horses to have shiny coat of hair:

Here is a link that might be useful: Zinc and copper for horses


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RE: Mister Lincoln & stuff

  • Posted by jim1961 6a Central Pa. (My Page) on
    Sat, Aug 16, 14 at 15:47

I really have no idea why some roses would get BS after blooming? Good question?

Let me know how you make out with your experiments Straw...
(fortified Alfalfa pellets)...
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By the way the temps shot up to 80 degrees and even with the umbrella over D-KO its leaves are limp and some getting crinkly...:-/ I watered them twice today but not helping...
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My son and I visited Horseshoe Curve today which is about 15 miles from where I live...

I snapped this shot...

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Here is a link that might be useful: About the Horseshoe Curve

This post was edited by jim1961 on Sat, Aug 16, 14 at 15:48


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RE: Mister Lincoln & stuff

That's absolutely beautiful, Jim, like a tourist's postcard. How's the trains there? Did you tour the inside of the train too? We are not going anywhere this weekend. Too hot and humid, even my perennials' leaves have blackspots !! My kid starts school this coming Wednesday, so I'm making cookies for her, plus a variety of muffins.


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RE: Mister Lincoln & stuff

  • Posted by jim1961 6a Central Pa. (My Page) on
    Sat, Aug 16, 14 at 17:13

Did not go inside any trains...
Darn BS! Cookies and muffins yum yum...lol

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RE: Mister Lincoln & stuff

Lovely shots, Jim, I like the big open views & enjoy your pics. very much. I'm in awe of the mountains ... we don't have them around here.

My ideal spot for a vacation is lake and mountains like the pics. you take ... so refreshing. Will post some pics. of the rose park here. I pray that your wife's eyes are still good, so she can enjoy the fabulous shots that you take.


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RE: Mister Lincoln & stuff

Thanks Straw!

It's my wifes right eye only for now that is getting attacked by her MS. They are changing her MS medicine to slow down or stop the attacks. That should prolong her from going blind in her right eye for a long while we are hoping...

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It rained last night and I forgot to put Mister Lincoln on the porch...lol
So his blooms are droopy!

ML blooms are lasting 4-8 days on the bush depending on how much sun he gets. Being in that container I can move him...

When ML was in the ground in all day blasting sun his blooms only lasted 1-2 days not even enough time to enjoy them...lol

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Took this pic while my son was driving home yesterday from a slowly moving car...lol

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RE: Mister Lincoln & stuff

Thanks for another good pic. of the mountains. Looks like your get lots of rain there, so lush & green. The mountains I saw in CA are dry & brown, no trees whatsoever. Same with Colorado Springs, where my Mother-in-law is ... the mountains are reddish brown, no trees either.

We are so blessed with the rain, only if I can solve black spots. Hubby asked me why I made a big mess of my garden with alfalfa hay: I replied "To see if I can get rid of black spots." It's an experiment worth trying .. so far the hay is dry & fluffy, doesn't matt down, even when I dumped 5-gallon bucket on top.


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RE: Mister Lincoln & stuff

  • Posted by jim1961 6a Central Pa. (My Page) on
    Sun, Aug 17, 14 at 14:14

Straw, I do not transplant roses in the summer like I just did with D-Ko... I do it while they are dormant so I got out of my comfort zone...lol

So how long will it take this D-Ko to get over its transplant shock? I mean hopefully get over it...???

Today is sunny so I have the umbrella over the transplanted D-Ko rose. But some leaves droopy and some leaves drying and crinkling... :-/

Weather forecast says we have a 60% of rain for the next 7 days so that will help out...


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RE: Mister Lincoln & stuff

Hi Jim: Some alfalfa hay will speed up the re-growth of dropped leaves. I dug up Comte de Chambord rose because it's a BS-fest after its 2nd-flush. It didn't grow new leaves, so I dug that up the 2nd time, put some Encap compost. It got worse, sat there bare for 1 month.

Last week I put alfalfa hay around Comte. SURPRISE!! Immediate new leaves, looks good now after 1-week of alfalfa hay application. For $8 a big bale, it's worth getting. a bit messy, but if one has a sharp pruner to chop the strands up, it's less messy.

My 2nd Comte rose has better luck: I moved that next to rain-spout on purpose to test the high copper content of sunflower seeds. I have a $2 bag of no-salt, roasted sunflower seeds ... Stale & 1-year. So I dumped the entire bag into my 2nd Comte's hole. Immediate new growth & buds. 100% clean in this hot & humid weather. It's planted next to the gutter-spout, so plenty of acidic rain water. It's done with 2nd flush, still clean.

Next to that is Sharifa Asma, done with 2nd flush, gets some tiny black-dots on its leaves. Sharifa Asma doesn't get sunflower seeds, only cracked corn & Encap compost & gypsum in the hole. I put some alfalfa hay around Sharifa Asma ... hoping for a growth spurt.

Below is the nutritional composition of sunflower seed. I get that idea from Rose-Tone's old formula with sunflower meal and crab shells, which people raved about how healthy their roses were. Then Espoma changed Rose-Tone formula to cheap chicken-manure. I'm NOT impressed with chicken manure, it doesn't have the 245% of vitamin E that sunflower seed has, nor the 122% copper and 47% zinc ... much higher values than cracked corn.

Here is a link that might be useful: Nurients composition of sunflower seeds


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RE: Mister Lincoln & stuff

  • Posted by jim1961 6a Central Pa. (My Page) on
    Sun, Aug 17, 14 at 15:01

Thanks for info our feed mill has Alfalfa hay. I'll pick some up and try it... I'll cut mine up in smaller chunks.

What do you do with Sun Flower seeds?
Don't they start growing for you?

I remember our bird feeder we had the birds would get sunflowers seeds on the ground and they would sprout by the hundreds...

So just wondering...

This post was edited by jim1961 on Sun, Aug 17, 14 at 15:44


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RE: Mister Lincoln & stuff

Hi Jim: The sunflower seed I used was ROASTED and no-salt from Trader's Joe. It was stale, so I would rather use for the planting hole, than waste $2. I'm very impressed with the quality of leaves my 2nd Comte has: thick & large and healthy.

I plan to get the RAW sunflower seed for $2 from Trader's Joe, then grind it coarsely in the coffee grinder ... so it won't sprout. RAW sunflower seed has more intact Fatty Acids than roasted. I'll wait to see if my 2nd Comte survive the late-fall constant rain. Alfalfa hay is LESS work than getting horse manure. I hope to find a way to prevent black spot without the hassle of getting horse manure.


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RE: Mister Lincoln & stuff

  • Posted by jim1961 6a Central Pa. (My Page) on
    Sun, Aug 17, 14 at 22:07

Yes horse manure can be a big hassle. A lot of times I'm afraid to use manure around here because I do not know what they put in it...
If I knew someone I could trust that had stables I'd use it once in awhile myself...

When my sister was alive she had horses so I knew what all was in her horse manures so I used it a few times without worry...

Maybe I'm being to over-cautious???

I like to use my homemade compost because I know whats in it and it keeps the leaves looking good and shiny...

Precious Platinum rose that got bad BS in third year never got my home made compost it mainly got cow manure and wood mulch...

Ok on the roasted sunflowers...lol
The sunflowers they put in wild bird food is what sprouted here...

This post was edited by jim1961 on Mon, Aug 18, 14 at 8:57


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RE: Mister Lincoln & stuff

  • Posted by jim1961 6a Central Pa. (My Page) on
    Mon, Aug 18, 14 at 10:56

Hi Straw, if you ever wondered why our Mister Lincoln rose bush is smaller this year its because when I took him out of the ground in April I trimmed his roots way back before I put him in the container. Also he had a lot of winter kill from our past bad winter...
Seems like no matter what you do to this rose he remains highly disease resistant...


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RE: Mister Lincoln & stuff

Hi Jim: When you took Mr. Lincoln out to trim his roots ... was it a straight woody stick downward, or was it cluster-root like annual flowers? When the soil is too acidic, some roses can't do cluster-root. Take Honey Bouquet, I spaced it too close to Gruss, so I dug it up, I notice extensive fibrous-roots through 2 feet diameter hole. Could not pull those up, since they were imbedded in my hard clay. I made a new hole, made the soil more acidic with pine park (pH 4), gypsum (pH 6.8), and cracked corn (pH 4).

The next year, Honey Bouquet became a B.S. fest. I dug that up, and found the soil too dry & fluffy, only a straight woody-stick, and zero fibrous roots like before.

I'm rooting over a dozen cuttings from roses. The MG regular potting soil with reported pH 6.5 (I also tested: slight pink in red-cabbage juice) ... too acidic & too wet despite my mixing in 1/2 perlite. All cuttings died in that one.

The MG Moisture-Control potting soil, at neutral pH (clear in red-cabbage juice), also peaty, was BAD for cuttings ... they all rot. Then I bought Schultz potting soil, since I read how that drains FASTER than MiracleGro. I also mixed in 1/2 perlite to make it drains faster. All rootings thrive in that Schultz potting soil.

My best success with rooting cuttings was when I used professional Ball potting soil, VERY WELL-DRAINED, made of composted pine fines (neutral pH with added lime and gypsum), rather than soaking-wet peat moss. Those rootings survived my cold zone 5a winter.

Conclusion: Roses' roots are healthiest when the soil can drain fast, slightly alkaline, to neutralize the acid-phosphatase of roots.


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RE: Mister Lincoln & stuff

  • Posted by jim1961 6a Central Pa. (My Page) on
    Mon, Aug 18, 14 at 13:44

Mister Lincoln was more clustered root...
But ML did grow different type of roots in garden soil then he did in a container.
Both types of root systems he has remained BS & mildew free...

Here's a pic of D-Ko wilting... D-Ko looks worse in person then the pics reveal...

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RE: Mister Lincoln & stuff

Hi Jim: You Knockout looks good ... Not bad ... just a bit wilting. Cluster-root can take digging up better than a straight stick. Months ago dug up Le Nia Rias (multiflora-old-garden-rose), that's known to sucker. Fixed the soil, and it was still perky & healthy now.

In contrast, I dug up Jacques Cartier, a straight stick, it wilted immediately. I also dug up Tricolor-De-Flandre, a Gallica-rose, with cluster root, it's perky after the move.

Just got poked by Souvenir de President Lincoln rose, such nasty thorns ... The only reason why I got that was for its dark-pink color and scent. Old Garden Roses are actually way-more fussy than modern roses. I can solve BS by throwing some horse manure & alfalfa on top, but it's hard to make stingy Old Garden Roses to bloom.

A friend grows Madame Isaac Pereire, a Bourbon rose, it hasn't bloomed for her in 3 years. I'm NOT sure if I have that patience. Out of the 5 bands I got from Heirloom end of July: Austin roses Carding Mill and Jude both gave blooms & buds. So do Heirloom hybrid tea, but Madame Isaac Pereire and Souv de President Lincoln haven't.

Kordes Barcelona is a blooming machine, but Rose du Roi gave me 2 blooms so far & disease-fest. Old garden roses are worth getting only if they are almost thornless. I wish I had seen the below link before ordering such thorny Old Garden roses:

Here is a link that might be useful: Almost thornless Old Garden Roses

This post was edited by Strawberryhill on Mon, Aug 18, 14 at 19:24


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RE: Mister Lincoln & stuff

  • Posted by jim1961 6a Central Pa. (My Page) on
    Mon, Aug 18, 14 at 23:06

D-Ko had roots that went way down so I had a hard time digging it up and some roots broke off...


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RE: Mister Lincoln & stuff

  • Posted by jim1961 6a Central Pa. (My Page) on
    Tue, Aug 19, 14 at 10:11

I would not have patience for a rose that did not bloom...lol
All the roses I tried so far bloomed 4-5 weeks after they arrived.
Some were bloomng when they arrived...

How would you even know if you got the right rose from the vendor if it did not bloom? :-/

Yes thornless is good!


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RE: Mister Lincoln & stuff

Hi Jim: I'm in pain, still have that darn-thorn in my finger, from Souv. du President Lincoln rose. It stabbed me as I flipped the leaves over to kill rose slug.

My Kordes Coral Flower Carpet is a darling in my garden... will post that once I load the pics. into my computer. It beats Knock-out in blooms, even in my very shady garden. Flower Carpet is so thornless & with glossy clean foliage that it makes me want to kill losers that stab me.

I'm going to kill Blue Mist, 100% clean in its 4th year, even in this humid weather. Why? It looks like an ugly duckling compare to glorious Kordes Flower Carpet. Blue Mist, as multiflora, has faded blooms and stingy in my alkaline soil & water. Plus the blooms are so tiny.
I dislike Rose du Roi .. great spring flush, but the scent is mediocre. Plus it wants full-sun & dry climate, which I don't have. I keep Rose du Roi in a pot just to do experiments. Alkaline water at pH 8.3 to 8.5 is a blessing ... French Romantica bloom well at that high pH and clean too. When I lowered my water pH with acidic lemons or cracked corn ... more diseases. When I use rain barrel water at pH 6, most diseases.

My pots decline when there are lots of rain. But when it's hot, and I use my pH over 8 tap water, and fix that with sulfate of potash & gypsum ... plants are very healthy. My cuttings in the pots doubled in height in this past dry week: I fixed my tap with sulfate of potash & gypsum, in 2:1 ratio.

The ratio is important: too much gypsum, plants become yellowish & wimpy. Too much sulfate of potash: not enough leaves & lousy blooms. Too much nitrogen: not enough blooming nor root growth.

So it's the high pH, plus balanced-fertilizer & trace elements is what makes horse manure work so well. We'll have lots of rain coming soon ... lets see if my roses mulched with alfafa hay break out in B.S.

Dr. Henry Kuska once posted a paper that tested what type of mulch is best to control black spots: Oat straw lead the pack. It's rich in silica, calcium, magnesium, and vitamin A. Silica & calcium are known to strengthen plant's cell wall against fungal invasion.

What I hope for in alfalfa hay: 1) dries out faster than soil, to prevent fungal and pest germination 2) calcium is rich in alfalfa hay, but I don't know about its silica content 3) buffering agent to neutralize the acidic rain. Will report if alfalfa hay can do what horse manure did in 1-month rain.

I prefer alfalfa hay as mulch because regular wood-chips robs the soil of nitrogen as it breaks down. Alfalfa hay NPK is 2.5-1-2, much higher than alfalfa meal nitrogen of 2.

Here is a link that might be useful: Nutrients in Oat straw as horse feed


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RE: Mister Lincoln & stuff

  • Posted by jim1961 6a Central Pa. (My Page) on
    Tue, Aug 19, 14 at 14:32

A look atTransplanted Double Knockout today:

 photo IMG_1379_zpse2545849.jpg

 photo IMG_1378_zps03e281e7.jpg

This post was edited by jim1961 on Tue, Aug 19, 14 at 22:29


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RE: Mister Lincoln & stuff

Thank you, Jim, for posting those pics... that made me think that roses lose leaves when there's stress to their roots, be it uprooting, salt, too much stuff that burns, like phosphorus, iron, and sulfate (sulfate is high in cow manure).

I sprinkled some lime on pots that got mildew (too much watering from rain barrels). Lime is a buffer, doesn't burn my skin like gypsum (calcium sulfate). Evelyn rose is pale but healthy & blooms lots with lime on top.

I don't have any fungal problems with tomato, only roses. My tomato produce decent fruits, considering they are heirloom varieties (less fruits than the normal types). I get a full 5-gallon bucket of tomato every other day from my 16 plants. I was googling on the use of penny (used to be copper, now mostly zinc) ... as fungicide, and found this link below. Here's an excerpt:

"I add 50 cents in pennies to a gallon of milk and let it sit overnight in the refrigerator. I mix 1 cup of corn meal, 20 cloves of garlic, and one quart of milk in a blender. Make sure you completely liquify the solution. I mix it with one gallon of milk & pennies, and pour it in a 2-gallon sprayer. Cornmeal and Garlic are both natural fungicides, as is milk. The pennies will outgas copper molecules into the milk, and copper is a necessary micronutrient for resistance to fungal diseases."

True, copper sulfate is used in Bordeaux mixture (along with lime) ... that was a fungicide in vineyards. Someone reported lining the surface of their pots with pennies ... slugs hate that.

Here is a link that might be useful: Spray for tomato blight & fungi diseases


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RE: Mister Lincoln & stuff

Here's an old method to treat ringworm (a fungi):

"This works due to copper's antimicrobial properties. Copper has antimicrobial properties include acting as a fungicide. And, ringworm is actually a fungus.

To made a copper solution, soak some copper pennies (1982 or older may be best) in a bit of vinegar (white or cider, doesn't matter), then apply the liquid to the affected area. If you do this 2 or 3 times a day, then the ringworm should be gone in about 2 weeks."

Here is a link that might be useful: Ring worm and copper pennies


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RE: Mister Lincoln & stuff

I hope your finger feels better Straw! Ouch that hurts!
I'll comment more alittle later...


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RE: Mister Lincoln & stuff

  • Posted by jim1961 6a Central Pa. (My Page) on
    Wed, Aug 20, 14 at 14:13

Yes life is to short to keep plants in our gardens we do not want for whatever reason!

Hopefully your finger feels better! yeeeeeeeeeeeee!
Hope the rain does not cause BS to any of your roses!

Great info on ring worm etc. Straw!

I'm going to sprinkle alittle lime in Mister Lincolns container BECAUSE for the first time he's getting some mildew! :-o

I just washed ML leaves off and took this pic:

 photo IMG_1381_zpsb37ff2fb.jpg

This post was edited by jim1961 on Wed, Aug 20, 14 at 14:30


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RE: Mister Lincoln & stuff

Hi Jim: It's super hot & humid here. I have many experiments going: La Reine was a BS-fest in the pot, I planted in the ground with gypsum & chopped up Calendula... strong medicinal value, rich in many vitamins. From below link: http://www.clarksnutrition.com/ns/

"Calendula, also known as pot marigold, has been widely used on the skin to treat minor wounds, skin infections, burns, bee stings, sunburn, warts, and cancer."

My La Rein rose is 100% clean with chopped up Calendula in its hole. Very healthy. I did not put cracked corn in the hole, since La Rein likes it alkaline.

1st Comte de Chambord with cracked corn & sunflower seeds ... still clean.

2nd Comte de Chambord with a tiny bit of chopped up garlic chives leaves in the hole ... slow to grow green leaves. I didn't use much garlic chives leaves, since I save garlic chives to make pot-stickers. Garlic Chives is super-nutritious, rich in vitamin C, K, A, plus the leaves are packed with other B-complex vitamins as well as some essential minerals such as copper, iron, manganese, zinc, and calcium.

Greens in the hole ARE NOT as good as greens on top, since greens in the top can decompose faster with air and sun. Nitrogen mobility is a 10, can easily move down to the roots. I pluck some garlic chives flowers off, and threw on top of Heirloom hybrid tea (tiny band in a pot) ... that chase away the rose slugs. The smell of garlic chives is very strong.

Garlic chives is so wickedly delicious in potsticker, that it doesn't have a chance to spread ... since I harvest it before it blooms. If you pluck the blooms off before they come to seed, then they won't spread. Here's an excerpt from below link: " Plants that are university field-tested with proven results of being able to keep aphids away from roses include onions, garlic, some herbs and certain flowers. Onion and garlic chives form a grassy border around rose gardens and effectively control aphid populations. Many universities, including Brigham Young and Alabama A&M, advocate planting garlic around roses."

http://homeguides.sfgate.com/companion-plants-really-keep-aphids-away-roses-31294.html

Jim, if you want Calendula seeds or garlic chives seeds, I can mail to you. Calendula are SO PRETTY in the garden, plus if one has a bee-sting, sunburns, or bruised skin .. rubbing the petals will heal the skin faster. That's why they put Calendula in cream and lotion. See picture of Calendula in my garden .. it blooms until the snow comes. It self-seed itself, but NOT invasive ... prefer alkaline soil.

I sorted through my penny collection, found many that dated back to 1950's. These copper pennies are darker color (grayish brown). The zinc-pennies after 1982 have a lighter & more bronzy color. I'm going to put BOTH on top of baby Duchess de Rohan in a pot. The acidic rain water will slowly release both zinc and copper.

Below is Calendula flower in my garden (orange flower), it sows itself in my garden for the past 14 years. It's known as "poor man saffron", since the yellow flowers are edible, and is used to impart yellow color to rice dish.

Here is a link that might be useful: Garlic Chives for super-nutrition


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RE: Mister Lincoln & stuff

  • Posted by jim1961 6a Central Pa. (My Page) on
    Wed, Aug 20, 14 at 19:12

Your flowers look great Straw!
You have a lot of experiments going on...


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RE: Mister Lincoln & stuff

  • Posted by jim1961 6a Central Pa. (My Page) on
    Thu, Aug 21, 14 at 13:37

Took this pic today...

 photo IMG_1387_zps37f19afb.jpg


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RE: Mister Lincoln & stuff

  • Posted by jim1961 6a Central Pa. (My Page) on
    Thu, Aug 21, 14 at 19:36

I'M UPDATING THIS POST... THE BAKING SODA AND A FEW DROPS OF SOAP WAS ONLY A TEMP FIX!
IN JUST A MATTER OF A COUPLE DAYS THE POWDERY MILDEW HAS COME BACK ON MISTER LINCOLN AND THE PM APPEARS WORSE!

---------------------------------------------------------------------- -
The other day Mister Lincoln had some Powdery Mildew.
I mixed up some baking soda in water with a few drops of dish liquid soap (Dawn). I applied it to the the PM leaves then sort of washed the leaves with my fingers.
I moved ML container back to his original spot because I had moved him couple days prior.
I did nothing else...

I just checked ML and the Powdery Mildew is gone! :-)

This post was edited by jim1961 on Sat, Aug 23, 14 at 10:51


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RE: Mister Lincoln & stuff

Glad to hear that .. that's a lovely pic. of red zinnia and bee. That's the type of red I like to see in a rose. A friend gave me one cutting of Veteran's Honor rose, which has that color, and smelled fabulous, like cherry and raspberry-pie, YUM !!


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RE: Mister Lincoln & stuff

  • Posted by jim1961 6a Central Pa. (My Page) on
    Thu, Aug 21, 14 at 22:44

Some people add a few drops of vegetable oil to that baking soda mix also.
But be careful as this solution I made could harm certain types of rose leaves etc.
I watered the rose well before applying and sprayed leaves down with plain water first...

I heard Veteran's Honor rose is a nice one Straw!


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RE: Mister Lincoln & stuff

  • Posted by jim1961 6a Central Pa. (My Page) on
    Fri, Aug 22, 14 at 15:46

Photo I took today... My son got his head into the pic...lol

 photo IMG_1389_zpse8e8e229.jpg


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RE: Mister Lincoln & stuff

That's a lovely red color of Mr. Lincoln. Nice shot of your son too ... is he your only child? My daughter is 11 years old & my only child (plenty of work!). I labored on my lawn today, pulling weeds. The Milorganite was a NO-GO on my lawn, weeds are sprouting from its NPK 5-2-0 ... its phosphorus content made the weeds flower, which spread seed further !! I'm going back to Scott's Weed & Feed, or some other formula with zero phosphorus !!

The sulfates in fertilizer really zap out nitrogen, be it Ammonium sulfate (high nitrogen), or iron sulfate, or sulfate of potash. I got left-over Schultz Soluble fertilizer for acid plants (which killed a few of my azaleas & rhododendrons) NPK 32-10-10 .. I sprinkled that stuff on a patch of my lawn. Instead of green & thicker grass, I got tons of clover growing, thanks to less nitrogen-fixing bacteria due to lowering soil pH. Remember the soil research where it's shown more fungal growth, and less beneficial bacteria with lowering soil pH?

In my alkaline soil pH of 7.7, we don't get clover, only dandelions ... but once the soil pH is lowered by chemical sulfates, clover sprouted in that patch only. Same with the area where my 5 pots are: I put them on wooden planks, for better drainage. Beneath the wooden planks, there are TONS of clover, like a carpet ... thanks to the acidic sulfate of potash I use for my pots, to promote root growth.

My 2 pots of rose cuttings: the one with gypsum (calcium sulfate) ... root growth is very good, but the size of the plant is 1/2 of the pot without gypsum. That's why I'm leaning toward calcium from alfalfa, rather than calcium from gypsum, which has 17% sulfate (or sulfur).

My best rose in the garden? Kordes FlowerCarpet, I never water that, it gets rain water, plus chicken manure only once this year. It gets 4 hours of sunshine, decent blooming, and healthy, picture taken yesterday in 80% humidity ... hot & humid & rainy here:

This post was edited by Strawberryhill on Fri, Aug 22, 14 at 16:32


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RE: Mister Lincoln & stuff

  • Posted by jim1961 6a Central Pa. (My Page) on
    Fri, Aug 22, 14 at 20:21

Mister Lincoln is a slow bloomer so I'm thinking about trying Brewers yeast on him. Wonder how much Brewers Yeast in a gallon of water for ML in his container???

Kordes flower Carpet rose looks very nice Straw!

Interesting about the clover popping up in that patch of your lawn...

We have clover and I do not worry to much about it as the bees just love it...

I only have 1 child... He's moving away soon to Seattle Washington :-(
But have to let him follow his dreams.
He just came back 3.5 weeks ago as he was in Germany for a year doing a business apprentice program...

This post was edited by jim1961 on Fri, Aug 22, 14 at 21:23


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RE: Mister Lincoln & stuff

Hi Jim: I'm sorry that your son moves away ... nothing beats doing things with one's child. Mr. Lincoln was stingy at the rose park, tall bush with a few blooms. Acid-phosphatase is when roots secret acid to extract phosphorus from soil for blooming. Roses that can't do such, tend to have cleaner leaves, but stingy in blooms.

My La Nia Rias Centifolia rose is an example ... always clean, zero B.S., no rose slugs either. But it hasn't bloomed for over a year. Why? It can't acid phosphatase. It can't secret acid to unlock nutrients from soil, so its leaves are alkaline ... fungi can't grow, and zero acids to attract pests.

Jim, I like your idea of giving Mr. Lincoln Brewer's yeast. Brewer's Yeast has 18% potassium, 0% phosphorus, low iron (6%), but high in copper (50%) and decent in zinc (10%), also the anti-fungal mineral selenium is high at 90%, plus high in B vitamins. The last 2 times I gave stingy rose Eglantyne Brewer's Yeast ... it remained healthy, but bloomed lots for 2nd flush. No rose-slugs on Eglantyne either ... so the bitterness in brewer's yeast do repel insects. Lots of people give brewer's yeast to their pets to repel fleas.

Years ago when I first started no-spray, I chewed on the young leaves of roses to see why some roses are disease-resistant. Knock-out's young leaf is terribly bitter ... no wonder I never see rose-slugs on that one, nor fungi. Pat Austin shiny leaves are yummy, least bitter and NOT sour either. I'm going to taste some leaves tomorrow, to see if the BS-magnet are sweet or acidic. My village's hard-well water, at pH 8.5, won the best-tasting water-contest in the region. My water is really sweet, I can squeeze plain lemon juice, and it still tastes good.

What's missing in Brewer's Yeast is calcium ... I would supply gritty lime, less than 1 Tablespoon to balance Brewer's Yeast acidity at pH 5. If Brewer's Yeast doesn't work for Mr. Lincoln, then MG-soluble for roses might work, that has high NPK values, including phosphorus.

MiracleGro soluble high in phosphorus at NPK 18-24-16 is risky, will be BS-prone. I already tested Pennington pellets NPK 4-6-6 with alfalfa, fish bone, and sulfate of potash .... great for blooming, but induced some B.S. since it's acidic, around pH 6. Even that doesn't work on Le Nia Rias ... so I might try MG-soluble with NPK 18-24-16.

Here is a link that might be useful: Nutrients in Brewer's Yeast


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RE: Mister Lincoln & stuff

Ok on Brewers Yeast missing Calcium Straw...
Next year I'll start Mister Lincoln on some type of chemical fertilizer and see how that goes...
I'm thinking about trying Algoflash liquid fertilizer for roses... (5-6-7)... I used it years before on flowers in containers and it worked well...

Last couple of years rose slugs attacked our Double Ko's causing moderate leaf damage. We have two types of rose slugs here the common rose slug and the curled rose slug.

This year with Marigolds hardly any damage at all so I'll be trying Marigolds next year also to see what happens...
---------------------------------------------------------------------- --
As you can see by the below pics the Double Ko I transplanted has a lot of leaves dying BUT hopefully it recovers before our killing frosts...

 photo IMG_1392_zps8b16249d.jpg

 photo IMG_1393_zpsf5062e3c.jpg

Here is a link that might be useful: Algoflash rose


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