I have actually already seen a couple of the links! The one with soda bottles and milk jugs. I am afraid it might would cook here during certain times of the year. What about coconut coir? I read that was good to use, but I am unsure. I just noticed a stick I started a few weeks ago now has some new growth. Roses challenge me.

coconut coir is great for rooting (has potassium & phosphorus) for root growth. When I rooted roses with 1/2 peatmoss & 1/2 perlite, the pot with gypsum mixed in has FASTER root-growth than the pot without. Both hydroponics you-tube & container-forum confirm that potassium and calcium are needed for root growth. I had tons of rain when I rooted roses with gypsum in the pot. Looking back, using SOLUBLE GYPSUM is better than mixing in the soil, since young roots are too tender for solids.

How much and how often would one use soluble gypsum for rooting cuttings?

This is helpful! No coconut coir available around here, must get some online. I plan on planting about 8 this week. Will get the cracked corn tomorrow, I hope I can get some more of those red lava rocks too.

I have a brick of coconut coir that I bought at Amazon for $2-3 ... last year. Haven't gotten around to hydrating it. I guess I will use it for my re-potting project this weekend. Also going off to Lowes to buy that Supersweet to mix in with the potting mixture of lava rock, anthurium mix, MG Nature's Care Potting soil, N'Rich, perlite. No bonemeal in the the mix, but I am thinking a handful of Rosetone and I think I'll get some of the pet alfalfa hay in there to get rid of the two bags.

For the top mulch part, still debating if I will use the lava rock which might cause things to overheat, or get some of the wood bark mulch. I'm thinking of laying down a fabric on top of the soil and then whatever mulch on top of that so I can just lift the fabric off ... would that be ok?

Maybe it would be different for you but when I tried landscape fabric it made the ground hard and compacted, more than it was before.

I am dreading the re-pot project so much.

I want to lighten up the soil on the bigger potted roses but it's going to be so un-fun loosen it from it's 15 gallon home when they're as tall and taller than I am (5'0). I think I put bark chips on the bottom so am going to remove that and just use soil.

I am thinking adding rich mixture in the bottom, lightly shaking off some of the old soil from the root ball but basically not disturbing them, and then filling in with the rich mixture. I killed Secret two years ago (and it made me so sad) because I was overly enthusiastic on removing the old soil from it to give it my better mix.

Then I'm going to get some pallets and use the slats as risers for them.

WHAT THEY LOOKED LIKE LAST YEAR (it's not aesthetically pleasing but I can only work with what I have, and since I am right against the mountain side, I get random rains all the time)

That's alot of pots msdorkgirl...lol... Is there a reason you grow roses in pots and not in the native ground?

Actually that's a cool photo msdorkgirl! I like looking at other peoples roses, etc. I'm not here to judge... Believe me I have my share of garden troubles at times...

Like right now my sisters rose is losing leaves at a very fast rate due to Blackspot... But it is still blooming away... It will re-leaf again sooner or later... ( It's a small mini floribunda type rose bush... 14" x 14" ...

It's an old photo and that's only half of them ... I repotted some to larger pots, and now they all need to get repotted again with more nutritious good stuff. I switched the tiles to where the pots are, so I can get to the back of the pots/plants to prune as needed. I've got excess bamboo sticks. :P

I am currently renting and move every couple of years, am a one woman operation and don't like to shovel. Those bigger pots are such a pain, but since the plants are 3 years and older I think, I have to take the plants out, maybe bump up the perlite to help with the weight, and cross my fingers that they get bushier/explode with bloom. Probably going to cull out some of the non performers too to make room for the new purchases. Or not (pack rat when it comes to the roses).

I grow Marigold flowers in pots more than I grow roses in pots... We use a potting mix for about 3-4 years then totally change all the potting mix after that for another 3-4 years...

But yes I hope your roses explode in growth & bloom great for you msdorkgirl! :-)

Thanks Jim for the pic. of your sister's rose. I have 2 roses like that, planted in 100% MG moisture control potting soil .. that's far INFERIOR to my clay. That 2 roses lost all leaves in in the fall. Since they DID NOT have good drainage, they could not get the nutrients from below (all rocks), so they had to get the nutrients from above: zero nutrients potting soil. So those two lost all their leaves after blooming, and regain their leaves ONLY AFTER I topped with chicken manure, plus lots of alfalfa hay on top.

Lesson well learned: I no longer use potting soil to sub. for my dolomitic clay in the ground. Clay is good stuff. One of the ingredients in Roses Unlimited recommendations is: Red clay. French Green clay is used as anti-fungal agent. Some info. on French Green clay:

"pH- 7-9 French Green Clay consists of volcanic ashes rich in magnesium and trace elements, organic plant matter and iron oxide determines its soft green color. It contains many minerals: magnesium, calcium, potassium, dolomite, silica, manganese, phosporous, silicon, copper, and selenium."

From Straw: Copper and selenium are strong anti-fungal agents, calcium is a weaker agent. Brewer's Yeast is high in potassium, chromium, and selenium, plus B vitamins. When Jim and I tested brewer's yeast for blooming .. I was very pleased with the result: Eglantyne is known as stingy & BS-prone, but with Brewer's yeast its leaves were shiny & pumped out blooms faster. Then I tested rice-bran (high in phosphorus, B-vitamins) and it was a disaster: La Reine broke out in black spots.

Msgirl: I'm impressed with your pots .. They are big. I'm so sorry you lost Secret rose, I always admire that one for its beauty. Pots can be blooming-machine, if given the right nutrients. There's an Easy Elegance rose I bought from HomeDepot, it has fluffy potting soil on top, and at the bottom are: bark chips mixed with blue-granular fertilizer (equal nitrogen to potassium ratio at 14-7-14). That pot had more blooms than leaves & very light weight.

If I have to design a large pot: I would put bark chips mixed with granular fertilizer at the bottom. Then I put potting soil half-way, then a layer of crushed red-lava-rock, then top with coco-coir. The logic: roots will reach WAY down to get the moist bark chips mixed with granular-fertilizer. Putting granular fertilizer AT BOTTOM makes sense, less risk of burning roots with chemicals, and salt can leach out easily. Red-lava-rock breaks down faster if wet, so put that mid-way, then top with moisture-retention coco-coir, then perlite LAST. Fluffy perlite on top will dry out fast, to prevent fungal germination, and larvae-insects from hatching.

I am currently rooting Eglantyne. Can you please describe how you used brewers yeast?

Austin rose Eglantyne has Rugosa-heritage. Rugosa HATES fertilizer, esp. solid ones. I would use an extremely diluted amount of Brewer's Yeast, since new roots are tender like alfalfa sprouts. Brewer's Yeast has anti-fungal agent & high potassium, plus B-vitamins to stimulate plant growth. That stuff is potent, its energizing effect is better than caffeine.

Ah so you wouldn't mix the perlite in? What about when I water with hose/bucket? Perlite floats, is a white rock type material so wouldn't that reflect the sun (ie in another post you didn't recommend using white stone as top dressing). I was actually just going to mix all of the ingredients together but I will do this layering you suggest instead, so this threw me for a little loop. But if I can blooms half as gorgeous as yours, it would be worth it.

Would you pot an Austin differently from other varieties? I want them to start with the best possible ingredients suited for their needs. Since the potting mix is probably around 6/6.5 already, I wouldn't need to mix calc carbonate in.

Great questions, Msgirl !! You are right that perlite would float ... it works for Heirloom nursery since they use a mister in their greenhouse. The soil forum used to have a discussion on layering versus mix-in, and the majority voted for lasagna, including experienced farmers. I used to be a "mix-in" person, but after disasters, I'm pro-layering.

Not sure if fungi spores & insect larvae would germinate on co-coir, but it's worth it to experiment with a layer of coco-coir on top to hold in moisture. I have never seen a fungi growing on an old coconut shell nor a banana (both are high in potassium), but I have seen fungi growing on acidic fruits, like lemon rinds, strawberries, etc.

Austin roses like it slightly acidic, since they are bred in a rainy climate (pH of rain is 5.6). After many experiments topping with gritty lime (calcium carbonate), I'm NOT impressed. The problem with lime is its high pH at over 10. The drastic rise in pH will make zinc and copper less available, and both are strongest anti-fungal agents. Another problem with lime topping is overdosing on calcium, which necessitate DOUBLING the potassium supplied. Potassium is much harder to add than calcium, since potassium chloride (muriate of potash) is high salt at 112.6, and sulfate of potash has 21% sulfur, which will bring the pH down further.

For Austin rose, I would mix granular gypsum with 17% sulfur in the potting soil, that will supply low-dose calcium which can be uptake immediately by plants, rather than need rain to break down like with lime (calcium carbonate).

Austin roses demand more water than hybrid tea, with their zillion-petals, so I would use a higher-potassium fertilizer. High potassium helps with water-retention, and calcium via gypsum helps plants to cope with heat (Texas A &M Extension) has a research on how calcium chloride helps with crops in the heat .. gypsum is better since it's lowest in salt, with salt-index of 8, compared to lime (calcium carbonate) salt-index of 4, and sulfate of potash salt-index of 34. High potassium has worked on all 15 Austins in my garden. Rosie in England recommends sulfate of potash, so does SteveinAustralia (HMF). Using coco-coir medium (high in potassium & decent phosphorus) will help Austin roses to retain water, and to bloom.

Just got thru chatting with Wayside / Jackson and Perkins --- they offer absolutely no warranty on any plants/plant material that ship to Hawaii. They messed up and shipped my Austins via ground --- total of 8 days from when it left to arrival. Explained to them won't be able to determine if roses are good until after first bloom, they said that the roses are outside of the their hardiness zone so no warranty, not even 30 days.

Even more so now, I want to ensure the best possible environment for them (if they even arrive in good condition). Sigh. The price to live in Hawaii is such a pain sometimes.

If you google, "The scoop on Jackson and Perkins" .. it will show customers' reviews for any nurseries. High Country Roses has very good customer service, so does Roses Unlimited and Chamblee's in Texas (cheap Austin own-roots). Would love to hear more about your Austin roses ..

I thought about what's best on top for pots OUTDOOR in hot sun like Hawaii, that would dry out fast on top, so fungal spores can't germinate, and insect-larvae can't thrive. At the same time, it should retain moisture below as well, and won't float when water dumped on top. Some choices:

1. Shredded newspaper, cheap & stay put, and keep the below soil moist. There's the burrito method when cutttings are wrapped in moist paper to induce rooting. Plus newspaper use a soy-based ink, so that acts as a fertilizer.
2. Alfalfa hay, cheap here in Chicagoland, at $8 per large bale. The nutrients work wonder to promote lush & green & healthy leaves, but it's messy. When I piled up alfalfa hay around rose bushes, it looks like a giant bird nest. Great during hot & sunny weather, but awful when it rained. Plus that mess hatch larvae of rose-slugs really well. Pretty good with black spots, since the nutrients is excellent for fast re-growth of leaves. This stuff takes forever to break down, at least 2 years.
3. Straw, the yellowish-paper shreds ... looks good. Straw, the Bale-plant-fiber for Halloween decoration ... A rose-grower in Italy put straw in the hole for her bare-root-rose, and it works really well.

The WORST possible topping is peat-moss based potting soil like MiracleGro. Countless rootings and rose-seeds rotted in that medium. Even when I mixed in 1/2 perlite, the surface of the soil gets whitish mold when winterized in my dark garage. I rooted roses before using composted-pine based potting soil, and zero mold whatsoever, since it's fast-draining, and the tannins in the pine-bark is a fungicide.

Vintage Garden band is topped with gritty red-lava-rock for nutrients. Heirloom band is topped with perlite, and I am NOT impressed with their roots: 2 Jude the Obscure from them died through my winter. Roses Unlimited uses a fluffy composted-pine based potting soil, with these shiny-flat-black pieces. Burlington nursery used fluffy & greenish sphagnum moss (light & dries out fast, yet retains moisture below) ... that stuff is expensive, so she switched to pine & peatmoss, a decline in quality.

My conclusion: Sphagnum moss would be best for topping: light & dry out fast on the surface plus cooling effect. Red-lava-rock is good, if it's in smaller size that break down fast for nutrients.

I have a LOT of spiders maybe they are spider mites. All I know is I have lots of webs. On one side of the house the water pressure is not strong enough to blast, on the other side the hose will not reach. I am opposed to putting oil on the leaves. How often should I spray diluted soap liquid? I just sprayed dish liquid Tuesday. I had an idea of putting essential oils on the big lava rocks and placing 1 rock under each rose bush. When we lived way out in the country, we had problems with deer and other animals in our vegetables. Most nights during the summer I would put small cups of ammonia out, and it stopped the issue. I also remember putting essential oils on cotton balls and putting those under the plants, it worked. We didn't have many bugs though, and the soil was so good and healthy plenty of worms, we composted, used manure, and all that. This was about 10 years ago and was vegetables not roses. Straw, what is your opinion on using lava rocks in this way?
Oh, I did get some grapefruit seed extract, similar to the one in the link same strength. I put a lesser amount of though only 1 drop per ounce of water, 1/2 tablespoon lemon joy, 1 drop oregano essential oil, 1 drop peppermint essential oil, 1 drop lavender essential oil, and 1 drop thyme essential oil for 1/2 gallon water. I mixed everything together, then added the water and sprayed. I will report my results. I thought I would spray with this, then wait 3 days and spray with kefir, alternate every 3 days unless it rains then start before rain if possible and after rain. I have 2 roses plagued with black spot so this should be interesting.

Hi cottage-garden: Great info you gave " When we lived way out in the country, we had problems with deer and other animals in our vegetables. Most nights during the summer I would put small cups of ammonia out, and it stopped the issue." Thank you, great idea on deterring pets. Rabbits eat rose buds, I sprinkled curry powder around the rose and that stopped them. Curry powder works well against deer too. I get this $2 huge jar of really stinky and hot curry powder from an ethnic store.

I think essential oils is a great way to deter pets. When I checked customer reviews on NOW peppermint essential oil, lots of people on Amazon testified that it works wonders to keep mice away. It would a neat experiment to find what essential deter spider mites. I like your idea of soaking red lava rock in essential oil, that rock is porous, so it absorb odor well.

I hate spider mites with a passion. Like you, my hose doesn't get to my plants so I can't use the awesome fan function on them. I meticulously looked at all my stems leaves, used my handheld sprayer (18oz or something) and sprayed off what I could. Then I did that again the same week so I could get control of the situation. I've now taken to using that same handheld sprayer to hydrate leaves, blast away at back of leaves almost daily. No oils or anything because in my climate, I get a ton of heat and sun, causing my plant to crisp up.

Also, it's good to note which roses are more heavily infested so you can watch them for re-infestation.

My concern is oil in the heat, that is why I don't use oil, I am afraid of cooking the leaves. I can't soak the rocks, but I can use a few drops of essential oil, I was thinking to use eucalyptus, it is great to repel bugs.

Great info. on eucalyptus oil, thanks. I like NOW essential oils, sold at local Health food store. Ants hate the smell of alcohol. I always wipe my kitchen-table off with alcohol, and no ants care to crawl on. Same with spider mites ... I got rid of them by wiping the stems with 70% alcohol.

So I could put alcohol on the lava rocks? It is much cheaper than essential oils. I used to have a giant collection, now I have just a few.

We mainly only have rose slugs and a few aphids so I guess I should feel blessed...

But I see regular spiders making webs on our roses all the time I just let them alone to do there thing...

Never had spider mites.. What causes there outbreak?

I use 91% alcohol to disinfect my pruners --- so that wouldn't harm the leaves? You're lucky if you don't have spider mites Jim, they make leaves ugly. I don't think I've ever seen a rose slug. Hawaii has japanese rose beetles but I have a lot of solar lights. :)

Hmm, somewhat related to the blackspot issue, I just posted this over at the regular Roses Forum ... please check my last post on it since I"m a bit worried that if Buck roses are supposed to be BS resistant, my complete leaf drop on my plant might be something else.

https://www.houzz.com/discussions/buck-roses-dsvw-vd~3121341

There are a couple other fungal diseases that look somewhat similar to blackspot but I can't think of there names right now... But Blackspot is the main disease roses get...

I'm not sure what your concerned about msdorkgirl???

If your leaves had blackspots then turned yellow and fell off then yes you have a blackspot problem...

But just because other people have trouble with a certain rose does not mean it will be a problem for you in your climate and soil, etc....

If I understood there post right someone said Buck roses were bred to have blackspot but not drop there leaves... Not true! My friend had Bucks and they like any other rose will drop there leaves if they get blackspot...Some roses will hold on to there BS leaves longer than other roses though but sooner or later they will fall off the bush...

I've never had a rose plant defoliate like that completely before. I assumed it was just blackspot but really just remember how it was such a sudden thing, one day healthy and blooming and then a couple of days later no leaves. I honestly don't remember if it had much spotting.

It is sufficiently leafed out now and producing new buds, so I guess that's all that matters.

Side note, some posts have some sting in them sometimes, I'll be careful what to post from now on. Thanks to you and most of the posters here for being welcoming and helpful.

If you get BS usually the leaves have blackspots then the leaves turn yellow then fall off the bush...Some roses hold on to there BS leaves longer than others...

But transplant shock can cause all your leaves to fall off the bush.../To much water in waterlogged soil will cause leaves to drop...

Once upon a time I had 5 rose bushes of the same type out front... We got a lot of rain over a period of a couple days and one of the roses bushes suddenly just dropped all its leaves the other 4 right beside it were fine...lol

whew.. thanks :)

Would this one work? I am adding things to my cart.
soluble gypsum

Hi cottage-garden: the company that made that stuff is Alpha chemicals. I checked customers' reviews on products made by Alpha. It looks good to me. Powder form is easier to dissolve than granular. Calcium Carbonate (lime) is immobile, it stays put where applied .. it won't move down to root-zone unless there's tons of rain, good drainage, or acidic soil.

In contrast, gypsum (calcium sulfate) is easily dissolved in water, thus reaching down to root zone where plants can use. Gypsum is best for alkaline soil, and dolomitic lime (has both calcium & magnesium) is best for acidic soil. Austin roses love dolomitic lime: calcium makes the petals firm, and magnesium give it more petals.

Here's a review for Espoma granular gypsum, I put tons of gypsum in the planting holes of my tomatoes in front, and they don't have brownish lower leaves, even late in season ... someone else wrote the same, see below Espoma gypsum, 6 lb. for $14

http://www.amazon.com/Espoma-GG6-Garden-Fertilizer-6-Pound/dp/B00AE23XOY/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top?ie=UTF8

"I am only a hobbyist gardener and usually learn from trial and error, and asking the old farmers around here what they do to fix a problem. I finally learned that the end of the summer tomatoes, that get big ugly brown spots just as you go to pick them, are from the plant depleting all the calcium from the soil over time. I always thought a fungus or not watering properly! Toss a small handful of gypsum in the hole before planting your tomatoes and it will solve this issue!"

"After learning that composted manure is deficient in calcium, I thought that I would try this. My tomatoes went from yellowing leaves to vibrant green after a side dress application.
I did need more, however, and the price was much better at Menard's."

*** From StrawChicago: yes, the price is better at Menards at $4 for 25 lb. bag. I tested dissolving the GRANULAR gypsum in my tap water, it dissolved well, except there's this sticky clay at the bottom of the bucket. The clay is used to form pellets out of the gypsum-powder. I would buy Espoma gypsum since there are lots of positive reviews, plus it can be dissolved in water, just have to throw away that gunky clay at the bottom of bucket. Plus Espoma gypsum as granular can be mixed into the planting hole, or mixed into pots.

Straw
I will check Ace for Epsoma.

I'm buying the Supersweet at Lowes, will let you know how it reacts. It's in pellet form so easier to use? I'm excited to try the layer method for the potting up.

Also, I was advised to use hydrogen peroxide to wipe off the mold, is that something I need to dilute or can I use it on stem, cane and root? Note all the white shoots too.

Hi Msgirl: I used hydrogen peroxide full-strength on my skin, zero problems. Plants are tougher than human skin. What's really strong against fungal growth is Milk of Magnesia .. very high pH ... my kid uses that for underarm deodorant since she kept breaking out from rash with any deodorants. I use Milk of Magnesia on my hand, it's very soothing to protect against fungal itch from wet and damp garden gloves. Vinegar is used to zap mold, but that's VERY CAUSTIC both for human skin and plant tissue. I would use hydroxide peroxide, and if that doesn't work, milk of magnesia will keep the surface dry and alkaline ....zap out both fungi and the strongest pathogenic bacteria on human skin.

I cut off the ones with the fungus ... is it lazy of me to just want to spray the canes down with half water and half hydro perox?

I'm tired and sunburnt and it's hot and I still have to go back out to straighten up. Maybe I'll get some pretty sunset light pics :).

Hi Msgirl: I would use full-strength hydrogen-peroxide ... look forward to see your pics. of sunsets. See this quote from link below: "

Hydrogen peroxide is another way to kill mildew naturally. Just apply it full-strength directly to affected surfaces, let it sit for at least ten minutes and then wipe the mildew away.

Read more: http://www.mnn.com/health/healthy-spaces/stories/how-to-kill-mildew-naturally#ixzz3d6A7KX1p

I will do full strength, I cut away the mildew parts already so would I wipe the canes still?

It's a nuisance to wipe the canes, so exposing that to sunlight will zap any remaining fungi. If there are any parts that you are NOT sure, wiping with Milk of Magnesia is MORE EFFECTIVE than hydrogen peroxide. Hydrogen peroxide works by giving oxygen to plant-tissue .. it's NOT as effective as Milk of Magnesium in killing the strongest bacteria or fungi. Milk of Magnesium is $3 for a HUGE bottle at Walmart, it's high pH, plus has magnesium.

I don't think I did the peroxide correctly, somehow it killed most of my cuttings. Once I put it on, I didn't take it off. I can't do the bottle greenhouse method the sun would cook them here. I did order some coconut coir for the next batch.

Ok, I will check that out.

Oh I'm sorry about your cuttings ---- I use soda plastic bottles for mine, and keep them in shade, you wouldn't be able to do that? Again my success rate is abysmal, I'll post a pic of it (and more than likely a month from now they'll be black and dead). :)

Sorry about your cuttings momscottagegarden... I have never even tried to do any rose cuttings yet...Maybe someday I'll try just to see if I can do it...

No shade really. I tried the plastic bottle method before in an area with afternoon shade it cooked. Inside it is shady, but may not be enough sun inside.

Ahh, the ones that were successful for me get some light but not direct light for the first three weeks, then slowly move them out. All of them were standard hybrid teas though, Tahitian Sunset, Good as Gold, Coretta Scott King and there's an unknown one that maybe will give me a bud soon.

Then again, I also just stuck a stick in the ground, it looked dry, I pulled it out and it callused! So I promptly put it back again, and am thinking of giving it a soda bottle on top of it. Will take pictures this afternoon since for the next two weeks I'm going to be misting the bare-roots every chance I get.

PS I also got marigolds for insect control. .. but are they annuals? What do I do with them? They're just one stock with flowers on top ... help!

Marigolds are annuals here... I'm not sure about your area msdorkgirl ...??? One stock with flowers on top???

I use French Marigolds here and they are very stinky.... I have no idea if Marigolds will help with thrips and Spider mites since I've never seen those insects here with or without Marigolds planted... Sorry...???

I would NOT plant Marigolds in the same pot your roses are in that's for sure ... Your situation is different because all your roses are in pots... So you would have to get more pots to plant Marigolds in then sit those pots around your roses is all I can think of???

You could of just bought a couple Marigolds and potted those up and sat them close to a rose bush you were having trouble with to see if it helped... Experimenting like that is what I did...

Here's a young Marigold plant I started from seed...

Here's what they look like when they get a bit older... Ours will grow like 10 inches high by 14 inches wide...They bloom heavily all season long here...

I sat these 3 large pots in the back of this rose bush... I have a smaller pot in front of the rose bush... And I got 2 real small seedlings growing near that bush...

This Marigold plant is in a much smaller pot....

BLACKSPOT?

Who you gonna call? BLACKSPOT BUSTERS!

Haha I don't have an extension cord long enough.

That's so funny, Jim !! I got a good laugh, thanks. Your marigolds look fantastic, is that your sister's rose-bush next to the marigolds? That looks great with lots of blooms. After my 2 visits to the rose park this summer, I'm impressed with Drift-roses: HomeDepot & Lowe's & Menards have them. Drift-roses grow really close to the ground, like a carpet ... it can take poor-drainage soil, always blooming & lots of petas. My neighbor has many of them, she really overkill on high-phosphorus fertilizer, and it doesn't bother Drift-roses come in many colors. I like them more than Knock-outs ... Knock-outs get ugly dead-winter-kill canes, and the blooms aren't as pretty as Drift-roses. Both are equally disease-resistant.

When I googled "pictures of Drift roses" I saw an orange rose bush which is VERY SIMILAR TO your sister's rose bush, see link below:

Orange Drift rose