It will make low-arching, 6' shoots, so needs plenty of room, but I don't think it will be a climber in your zone. I think it will lose most of its canes in the winter. If grafted, the graft should be buried or winter-protected. For more compact and upright growth, you can cut the canes back by half after flowering to an upward-facing bud (leaf joint). Not this time of year, though.

Penelope is a lovely, fragrant rose, but white is the normal color, as you discovered.

Michael, what do you do with a 6ft high arching rose? I guess I think climber or bush in trying to fit it into the landscape. This seems to be in between.

Thanks Michael for those tips. I will look forward to it next year. It is not too many roses that are that carefree.

:-)
Adam

Adam, lots of roses are shrubs, that is, bigger plants than bush roses such as hybrid teas. You just have to give them more room. A low-arching shrub like Penelope can be allowed to sprawl and interplanted with spiky perennials or annuals that will grow up between the canes. Or it can be pruned to gradually make a denser and more upright shrub 5' or 6' wide. You could cut it back to 2' x 2' in spring if healthy canes survive, then cut back each shoot after flowering.

Thanks Michael for those ideas. I think I would like the denser more upright shrub, so in the spring, pruning back will be the way I will go. That sounds sort of like deadheading, for bushier growth.

Adam

Hi, back again.. :-)

I just wanted to update everyone, that after one of the worst winters, the penelope rose I bought last year came back strong. It scared me for awhile as it leafed out late, but right now, it looks wonderful. Very full bushy growth. Healthy pristine foliage right now. No bugs yet. No mildew, despite 20 days of measureable rain in May and sticky, muggy, 90 degree weather since.

I LOVE the foliage too. It is a great color and the new growth is also a good color. I haven't seen any buds yet, but I expect I should soon. It did leaf out late.

I wanted to move it in the spring, but I couldn't get the place I wanted to move it to prepared. So I am wondering when I can move it? I know it is pretty hot right now and probably not the best time...does that mean I should wait til the fall or for next spring again?

I haven't done anything for the rose. Should I be thinking about spraying it with fish emulsion/seaweed fertilizer or put some compost around the base? Since it is looking so good, I sort of wanted to leave it alone..lol.

Adam

Hi,

One more update and try for advice on when to move this rose. It has started blooming and is really much more enjoyable this year than last. Last year, it's first year, I only got a few small almost white blooms. This year, I am getting a lot of blooms, all on the tips of the branches, is that usual? The blooms are larger, they start out with apricot buds and open to a soft apricot color and fade to a white. They aren't stunning looking but considering how easy the rose has been and how clean and attractive the foliage is I think it is a pretty good rose. I have done absolutely nothing but ignore it. I have barely watered the bed it is in and it is showing no effects from the dryness. There is no insect damage on it at all, and on a hot day last week, when I walked by it, the air around the plant was scented with a great "rose" scent. I didn't even have to stick my nose in it. The foliage has greened up and didn't stay as bronzy as it was in the spring.

I do want to move it next to a fence. It is standing alone in the middle of a perennial bed right now and is too big for the space. When is the best time for me to move it?

Thanks,
ADam

I have about 4 Penelopes. Mine are about 6 feet high, 7-10 feet deep and wide. Their canes become very thick in time. Your description of the color of the flower is accurate, but I think my flower is a little larger than what you are describing. Penelope becomes very strong by itself and does not need a fence. However in the fall I think I may try to put in some rebar to brace some of the branches.

I live in Tulsa, OK, and would never move a big rose this time of year. To do so would require a huge amount of care to preserve the roots. (I think.) I would wait until the spring, and move it here in about Feb or March. MA is Maine or Mass? You might want to wait until it is about to come out of dormancy - what about April in your climate?

Sammy

Hi Sammy...Thanks for the tip about moving the rose. I really don't want to take a chance of losing it. MA is Massachusetts. Last year, the Penelope rose was slow to start growing. Not sure exactly when it started to show growth, but I remember being concerned that maybe it didn't make it through the winter. So March would be still cold with temps at night sometimes hitting low 40s, high 30s. April would be better with still a danger of frost. May 15th is the date when danger of frost is past. Would April still be ok for moving it?

WOW! That sounds like a HUGE rose bush. 7-10 feet diameter of one rose bush?? And you have four of them? Was there any particular reason you wanted so many of them? How are you using such a large rose in your landscape? I will go out and measure the diameter of the flower later. So when it grows, it is a stand alone bush and not a climber or pillar rose? Can it be trained to a fence? What is the reason you might need rebar? How long did it take to get that large? Do you cut it back much every year? That must make a great fragrance in your yard. How long does it bloom and do you have to deadhead to get longer bloom?

Sorry to ask so many questions..lol. You startled me with that description of your bush...lol.

Thanks,
Adam

I bought them before I knew what I was doing. We live on a green belt (flood control area) so I needed some large roses in the back. At the side back I put in 2 Penelopes and 2 Sea Foams. They all just grew and grew. The Penelope canes have a large diameter, and the higher branches are large also. But I fear the day that they may all come crashing down.

I do prune them, because I want air to go through them, and they need room to grow. But I often prune in the center. They are beautiful when everything in the spring starts blooming. I can crawl under the roses, and if I put in rebar that I have bent to the correct height, it can give the whole rose some support. Without that if we have a bad storm or a hard freeze, and ice to weight it down in the winter, I am afraid that it will fall.

I am glad that you responded. I had not realized the initial date of the post.

SAmmy

Hi Sammy..well it sounds very lush and beautiful. I wonder if it is dense enough to attract birds that might want to nest in it? Yes, I started the thread right after I bought it last year. How did your Sea Foams do? I have seen those in bloom and think they are pretty. Do they have fragrance, I can't remember.

Good luck with those..they seem like a great choice for an organic rose since they are so easy care and fragrant.

Adam

It is interesting to see Sea Foam and Penelope mixed together. For quite a few years I let them go, but a month or so ago, I decided that I was inviting disease. I began cutting on the underneath part and the insides of the bush. They were both too full.

We do not like the Sea Foam flowers as much as the Penelope so we cut it back to about 6 ft. tall and 5 feet wide. Penelope has canes about the size of a small tree. ha ha!

I am approaching Organic growing, and consider myself a visitor. I think both roses will be fine, and have heard that Sea Foam with the shiny leaves should do well.

I don't know for sure what organic is. Is using Wilt Pruf considered organic? How about sulfur? It's for sure Banner Maxx is not. If I ever use an insecticide like for squirting the buds and blooms for thrips, is that ok? Or is it rather understood that on this Forum it is no chemical. I think probably Wilt Pruf is ok, but nott he others.

Sammy

Hi Sammy,

I would think the bloom on Sea Foam and Penelope is similar. Isn't the Sea Foam a bright white and about the same size as the Penelope bloom? Is the Sea Foam fragrant?

I have been an organic grower for 25 years. I haven't used any chemical in my yard. I am also in a colder zone than you..zone 5/6. I don't know what the purpose of wilt pruf is. Is it something you spray on broadleaf evergreens over the winter to keep them from losing leaves?

I just want to assure you, that we had one of the worst winters last year. Very cold, tons of snow and the Penelope survived it with absolutely no winter preparation. No mulching, no protection. I cut the canes back to the ground in the spring and in the next 3 weeks or so, it developed leaf buds on the cut back stems. Since the spring, the plant has been completely ignored. We were very busy renovating a back shrub border and having the roof replaced and the front yard didn't even get a look, let alone a thought. We had enough rain during the spring not to worry about watering and since the spring, it was only dry enough to water twice. I put a sprinkler on that bed, watering overhead, which is something I normally wouldn't do to a rose. I haven't fertilized or added compost or done anything at all to the rose.

It has looked great from spring right up until today. No diseased leaves, no discolored leaves, no pest eaten leaves, not even an aphid. It looks perfectly healthy and all the stems developed buds on the tips of them and bloomed and it was nice and fragrant. It is planted in a full sun bed, surrounded by lemon balm and thymes with sedum 'Matrona' nearby and behind it...Asclepias incarnata and a large hyperion daylily. It is going to have to be moved, since it gets so large.

I am wondering though, here in Massachusetts, I think the canes die back to the ground over the winter and I will always have to cut them back to the ground every spring. So isn't that different from what you do? Wouldn't I be keeping the shrub smaller by doing that?

I can't answer your questions about the chemicals as I don't know what any of them are. I would ask that in another thread with a new subject line.

Thanks,
Adam

I was wondering, I need to move my Penolope Rose and I need to know when is the best time to move it? Should I try it now, or wait until spring?

Thanks,
Adam

Hi

I've had good luck planting roses in fall, so it might be worth trying. The ideal thing would be to wait until you've had a frost or two to drive the rose into dormancy. cut it back hard, and dig it up with as many roots as you can. with any luck you'll have a nice long wet fall to let it put some new roots out, and in the spring it will be nicely established. The only danger that I know of in moving a rose in the fall is the possibility of being heaved out of the ground by frost, but I think a reasonable mulching would do the trick.
If you don't have time this fall, moving it in the spring as soon as the ground thaws is probably the way to go. Basically the longer it sits in its new home without leafing out, the happier it will be

Hi merrall,

When you say you had good luck "planting" roses in the fall..can I assume that you didn't mean digging them up, but putting a "potted" rose in the ground?

I guess I would really like to be sure I will have the rose in the spring. I was so surprised when it was still living last spring...lol. We had such a cold winter.

And I just asked on the perennial forum about moving other plants this fall..a buddliea, and a perovskia, a miscanthus baptisia and the rose are all in the same bed and some on the perennial forum were saying, it might be safer to wait till spring. So if I am not going to move those, I guess I may as well wait for the spring. So in the spring...should I move it before it starts budding or wait till I see green growth?

Thank you merrall..
Adam

I do best moving roses in early spring before they completely break dormancy (sometimes I'm late and they are just budding up). It is easier to do it then, prunning as needed to make it easier to move.
Glad to hear Penelope is doing so well for you. I've wanted to try a hybrid musk, but for so many of them zone 6 seems to be the edge of their hardiness.
I'm sure that winter die back has, and will continue to keep your shrub smaller. Not a bad plan given how huge they can get.

I've had two Pen's, one planted in a "rose garden" with amended soil, regular watering, and lots of compost around the base. The first one died within two years, just withered and died, and never a single bloom.

The second Penelope also went into the rose garden, same conditions, planted about 50' from where the first one went in. She was struggling, and didn't bloom at all the first two years.

Then one day in the fall about three years ago, I just yanked it out, and moved it to the center of the yard. No amendmemts, no special priveleges, no attention at all. The next spring the foliage was completely covered up with blooms. She had clusters of flowers all up and down the canes, and the scent was wonderful.

DH doesn't like it out there and sometimes mows over the ends of the canes if they trail on the grass. My Pen has grown from the original 3'x3' plant to about 8'x8' now in her fifth year. I don't know why this worked, it shouldn't have, but I have a great specimen rose in a very inconvenient location. And that's where she's staying.

Cheryl

Hi...

Back again, talking about the Penelope Rose. This has been a rollercoaster ride with this plant. First I was pleased with the new growth, then the color on the flowers was a little disappointing as it was more white than apricot, but the fragrance was great and the hardiness and carefree, pestfree experience was super great.

So, now having had it a season and a half, I can say that the only thing disappointing about the plant was that the color is paler than I would have liked. Here it is November and I am still enjoying the plant as the foliage has changed with the cooler weather and the leaves are all tinged in red with a great pattern about the shading. It is planted near a rosy color chrysanthemum and looks great together.

I decided to leave it till the spring and I hope to move it then. I have a place all picked out for it.

It will not receive special treatment or amendment. I can't believe how pest free and disease free it was all summer. I don't think it lost a leaf or had any insect damage to even one leaf. lol

Adam

Hello again :-)

someone wrote and asked about how my Penelope rose is doing, so I thought I would update. We moved it about 2 weeks ago into it's new position next to a 4ft tall fence. Gave it no special treatment, just dug a hole and in it went. It had already started showing leaf buds but hadn't opened yet.

It seems to be doing okay right now, but not as spectacular as last year in the spring, but it is still early. I think it is still trying to adjust to the move. There are leaves starting to open on it. The canes didn't die back to the ground and I kept 6ft long canes on the plant while moving it..lol. I did cut back about a half dozen pencil thin canes in the front and left 3 large canes arching out to the left and the right. I am going to try to train the arching branches horizontally along the fence, sort of like an espaliered fruit tree.

So, it is moved and leaves are opening and it made it through the winter with canes intact. We did have a milder winter than usual. So I will give a report as the season goes on again this year and let you know how it does.

I might even be able to take a few photos this year. :-)
adam

Hi again,

I was just doing research trying to find another old fashioned rose that I could like as well as the Penelope and ran across this old post. So..another update. LOL

Here it is the end of October and the Penelope is doing fantastic. It filled out great, produced nice fragrant blooms, was bug free and disease free all season with no attention at all. Right now, it is blooming again even with the cooler nights we have been having. I think next year is going to be the best season for it and I am expecting a lot.

It does look like it is planning on taking up a lot of room, but I gave it a lot of room. So if you have room for a large shrub rose with arching branches, that is trouble free, I highly recommend this one.

Sorry, no photos, our camera was stolen this summer and haven't replaced it yet.

:-)

I do not have Penelope but I do have a musk rose whose bush is about that size and so beautiful. I bought it at Heirloom Roses about 6 years ago. It is Dr Robert Korns. I keep cutting back mine but it really wants to be about 8 by 8 (Atleast). It is covered with sprays of tiny roses that are apricot in bud then pale pink when they are all the way open. IT has a lovely soft fragrance also and from a distance or up close it is beautiful. I would say that the individual roses are not bigger then 1" but there are many in a spray. I picked a branch off mine last week after 3 nights of freezing and have had it in water for a week and it is still fine with the buds slowly opening. I think the foliage is lovely all the time too. And it has sprays of little tiny red rose hips in the fall.

Thanks liza for offering me another rose to consider. I looked it up and it is very sweet. I should have mentioned I wouldn't have room for another rose that is that large. I am hoping to find a smaller rose, maybe 4x4 at the maximum. I wish I had more sun for roses. There are SO many to choose from. Each with it's own special qualities. I did link below to your rose. Hope you enjoy it again next year!

:-)

Here is a link that might be useful: Dr Robert Korns Rose

My Penelope roses also receive no special treatment and have grown to 8 by 8 in a fairly hot and humid climate. I find the blooms are shell pink in cooler days and white in the warmer days of late Spring and Fall. Currently, it is among the most fragrant of all my roses and is covered with blooms despite the chilly temperatures this week. It does not bloom consistantly in the Summer. Like all Hybrid Musks, it is a more of a rambling bush than a true climber. I only prune for shaping, it doesn't repond the same way as a Hybrid Tea or an Austin to encorange new growth and blossoms.

Hi brhgm...

Thanks for sharing about your rose. Wow, that is a huge rose bush! You are way ahead of me in your zone. There are barely leaf buds on mine right now. Could you tell me what you meant about pruning the Penelope? how does it respond to pruning? I have already pruned mine for the season. Just cutting out the branches that seemed out of place. I cut off as little as possible.

Thanks :-)