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newbieroselover

Prepping and Protecting for Winter

newbieroselover
18 years ago

Hi everyone,

I'm curious if anyone in the Appalachian/Blue Ridge Mountain growing zone has any secrets for getting their roses through our winters of extreme cold, with warmish days and rain now and again, then back to extreme cold. (we don't have winters that stay solidly frozen.) I could also use a refresher course in whatever you do with horticultural oil, sulfur, etc. Thanks!

Janice

Comments (10)

  • seamommy
    18 years ago

    We had those kind of winter conditions when I lived in Colorado for 22 years. I used to make cages from chickenwire and place them around the pruned rose bushes. Then I'd fill the cages with dead leaves, pack them in pretty good and wrap the whole shebang with a sheet or blanket or tarp, whatever I had. I only had about ten rose bushes then, but it still was a good half days work to do them all. But it was worth it, I never lost one using that method.

    Cheryl

  • newbieroselover
    Original Author
    18 years ago

    Hmm, thanks Cheryl, food for thought. Other folks have told me that in a winter with rain, like we get, packing mulch against roses can create conditions for canker. I'm confused :-)
    Janice

  • anubis_pa
    18 years ago

    I'd be curious about that part too, I was given 3 roses that were taken out from a relative's house in spring, so this is the first winter for me to deal with them. I live in NE PA, expecting frost this week, but it has been raining this weekend, so I'm not sure if now is the time to cover them.

    For that matter I'm not sure how much to cut them back, any pointers would be appreciated. (AFAIK they're not climbers, but I don't know much else about them unfortunately.)

  • elks
    18 years ago

    You will get many answers to this question. I haven't enough time or patience to do what many rosarians do, which is cage the roses and fill the cages with oak leaves or the like, or mound the wee darlings with soil taken from another part of the garden. It's too much work.

    Instead , I plant the bud union deeply (2-4")(The bud union is the swelling where the culitvar you want is growing on another rootstock as is the case for most roses sold in North America). This does a lot for me:
    I don't have to coddle them. I do spread mulched leaves over the beds in fall (I have dibs on all the leaves in the neighbourhood).
    Those roses that are struggling die (I've lost a few over the years).
    Winter is a masterful pruner. It takes most tender rose canes back to the mulch or even the ground and rids me of all the fungi overwintering on the canes (I don't spray and have a surprising free bed of disease).
    In March, while the beds are still frozen, I can walk on them and cut the tender ones (HTs and floribundas) back to the ground with no fear of damaging the soil structure.
    It still sounds like a lot of work, but compared to the other ways, it isn't. The mulch stays on the beds and is supplimented with more and a little specific-to-the-soil ferlilizer. I don't have to weed, feed or water as much because of it.

    Another man's opinion, one that is shared by few on these forums, but which has worked well for me for years.

    Steve.

  • newbieroselover
    Original Author
    18 years ago

    Thanks Steve, and yes, I've concluded I'm going to take my courage in hand and do nothing, except for spraying them with Wiltpruf. Like you, I don't have the time or desire to do the cage thing. After an unseasonably warm fall, our leaves are finally starting to come down and I'll be grinding them up and using them for mulch (I'm a big believer in mulch). I did plant my roses this spring with the unions very deep, 12 to 18 inches, after reading a book by a grower in Vermont, and nourished them over the summer with compost and alfalfa tea. They've flourished, sending up lots of basal breaks. So I'll see which ones were destined to survive, after this winter! Thanks for taking the time to help.

    Janice

  • sue_ct
    18 years ago

    Wow, did you mean the hole you planted them in was 12-18" deep or the bud union was 12-18" deep? Either way, I think you get the prize for the deepest bud unions. Do you plant them lying sidways? If not, and my roses are anything like yours, that would require at least a 24" deep hole, even deeper in most cases, to get the bud union 18" deep. Not something I could do, since I have pure sand more than 12-18" down. I suspect most of your roses become own root fairly quickly. You must water VERY deeply, especially in the begining. To be honest, I am impressed with anyone willing to go through that much work for a single rose bush. I doubt very much you need to winter protect if they are that deep. If they don't survive with bud unions up to 18" deep, I doubt they will no matter what else you do.

    Sue

  • newbieroselover
    Original Author
    18 years ago

    Hi Sue,
    Yes, I planted them so the bud unions were 12-18" deep. I cheated on a couple of the roses by leaning them sideways, but most of them were positioned straight up and down. (Now, I didn't dig the 2-foot holes myself :-). I had a yard guy do it--had to, since I've got postsurgical glass wrists.)

    Judging by the number of new basal breaks true to the variety (not rootstock suckers), I think they've all one own root this past summer, their first growing season.

    I also think two more keys to this happening was the mush of bananas and alfalfa I put in the bottom of the holes before planting, and weekly application of an alfalfa/manure tea I brewed up. I got the idea of teas from a couple of books, including a 19th century book by an English rosarian. Plus I thought it made logical sense that teas would deliver nutrition deep enough. (The alfalfa ingredient is important for tocotrienol, which stimulates root growth.) I also ignored the 'rule' that you shouldn't feed newly planted roses for a couple of months; I started right away.

    I think another benefit of this deep planting has been that my roses came through an extended late summer/autumn dry spell quite well, without me having to do more than a weekly, minimal watering.

    So anyway, I've followed more experienced folks' advice, and made up some of my own rules. For me, it's worked so far. But ask me in the spring how everything came through! LOL
    Janice

  • gardenlove
    18 years ago

    I planted a Hybrid Tea rose garden this summer and also wondered about planting the bud unions deep vs at ground level...but then I ran across all sorts of advise NEVER to plant them below ground!!....So, confused...I compromised and planted them right at or slightly below ground level so they would be nearly covered with soil after planting...and then I put a few shovelfuls of well composted steer manure over the bud union and surrounding root zone(a local landscaper does this with his roses..he plants them with bud union at or above ground level, then uses manure to keep them "warm" and to feed the roots during the winter).....I hope mine make it..I may have made a big mistake not planting them deeper!.I also planted some climbers with bud unions very deep(before I read that other advise NOT to go deep)...about 6 inches or so below the surface...and will see how those do in comparison...GardenLove

  • elks
    18 years ago

    The climbers should be fine.
    What takes a rose out is not the cold, but the freeze/thaw cycles, usually in the spring. One wants to rose to freeze for the winter, then thaw once in the spring and start growing.
    Climbers (and other roses) often lose their canes to winter winds and the scalding winter sun. Many are tender and will die back to the ground anyway in zone 5. Others can be protected with burlap or the like, as one would do with other ornamental plants and for the same reason. A few are cold hardy.
    Steve.

  • veilchen
    18 years ago

    I don't know why anyone would tell you never to plant the bud unions deep. In the south, they don't, but in the north we are always advised to plant at least an inch or two below ground level.

    I plant my bud unions approx. 6" below ground level. I don't think I'd be capable of digging a deep enough hole to bury them 12'18". I've been ordering from David Austin, whose grafted bareroots have about 2' of root below the graft. It is hard enough to dig deep enough to bury graft 6".

    I mulch my first-year roses with about 12" of pine needles around the first of Dec. (earlier if the ground is frozen before that and temps are consistently in the 20s). This is probably unnecessary for most of the roses I grow, as they are buried deep, but 2 years ago we had a snowless winter with some of the coldest temps in 50 years. Since snow cover is not consistent, I mulch the 1st year roses just in case. I would be leery of using leaves as things can get pretty wet around here, pine needles don't retain as much moisture and are more lightweight.

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