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maureenpm00

I need help - please help newbie with organic spray for bs

maureenpm00
19 years ago

HI everyone. I started with roses last year and did not spray at all.

Now I've ventured into buying HT's -- which I will have to spray in my zone; however I do not want to spray anything that will harm me or my enviornment.

What is the best product to use for this?

Ex: What do I use to spray?

What type of a routine do I set up?

Do I start to spray now (My Marie Pavie and Jacques Cartier and A Shroshire Lad are 70% covered in bs.

What type sprayer do I use (and where can it be purchased?)

(MY ht's are on order so I don't have any here yet, in the spring) but should I start with the 3 bs roses I have now?

Thanks

Maureen

Comments (10)

  • diane_nj 6b/7a
    19 years ago

    Maureen, here is a link to Field's ROSE CARE AND CULTIVATION web page. Scroll down to "Spraying and Fertilizing", and he discusses the Modified Cornell Formula and a spray schedule.

    Sprayers can be found at Home Depot or Lawes, size depends on the number of roses that you have.

  • _sophiewheeler
    19 years ago

    First, do some research on the available chemical fungicides. If environmental concerns are your top priority, then understand that many chemical fungicides are less damaging to the environment than are many organic ones. Most chemical fungicides are also much less potentially damaging to the person spraying than are even the mildest of insecticides. If you wear proper personal protection at both during mixing and applying, then your risk of contacting enough of the chemical to cause yourself harm is rendered exceedingly minute, and this is for chemicals who have a lower toxicity profile to begin with. I've found that BannerMaxx combined with mancozeb will give you 95-99% control of BS, and this is in a climate much hotter and humid for longer than most, except for Florida.

    If, after fully informing yourself of the choices available and the consequences of each one of those, you choose organic methods to control disease, be aware that the first principal of organic gardening is to get rid of the disease magnets. That may mean elmininating most of your hybrid teas, as they are not really suited to growing organically in most of the East. Concentrate your energies on the roses that have at least some resistance to disease and your results will be far more pleasing. You must be willing to accept some damage to your roses as a total gardening philosophy. Growing roses organically doesn't mean you just substitute products and achieve the identical spotless results. Also be aware that roses with poorly controlled disease are far weaker going into winter and have a much greater chance of not surviving even mild winters. That again makes your cultivar choices of primary importance.

    The most effective organic fungicide that I've personally trialed for preventative spraying is horticultural sulpher. It must be applied at least weekly, and during times of rapid growth like in early spring, sometimes twice weekly in order to coat the most rapidly growing foliage. It had an effectiveness rate of 40% in my trial, meaning that Angel Face, a rose that will defoliate 100% with no spraying, will retain 40% of it's foliage if sprayed regularly with sulpher. On a more resistant cultivar, of course the retained foliage % would be higher, but I find ANgel Face a good "lab mouse" with which to judge a spray's effectivity. Sulpher has a tendancy to burn at temps above 86°, which is highly problematic in my location as we regularly have many many summer days with temps above that.

    None of the baking soda and horticultural oil formulations that you may hear regularly touted had any effectivity approaching even 10%. Neem oil, while a decent enough insecticide, burnt leaves badly and also wasn't terribly effective. Copper is is good, but it burns worse than sulpher and can build up to toxic levels in the soil and is far more dangerous to the human than is sulpher. The more folkloric remedies of milk and cornmeal aren't even worth the bytes...

  • michaelg
    19 years ago

    The FAQ discusses how to use sulfur and Cornell mixture. Wilt Pruf concentrate at 1/2 cup per gallon every 10 days also provides some control (or 2 TB of Vapor Gard).

    I use and recommend sulfur. While I haven't made side-by-side comparisons, I agree with HollySprings that it is the best organic control for the East. You should find Bonide micronized sulfur in some local hardware or garden stores. Sulfur is quite safe to handle, and regular use will allow you to grow a fairly wide range of roses decently.

    Get a pump-up tank sprayer of 1 or 2 gallon capacity at any garden center. One gallon does about 25 plants for me.

    Start spraying at leaf-out next year. As for now, it may be too late to help your diseased plants much, but it wouldn't hurt to start.

    I disagree somewhat with HollySprings about the safety of some modern fungicides. Mancozeb has recently been characterized as a "multipotent carcinogen." HollySprings takes full precautions, though.

  • threeducks
    19 years ago

    I disagree somewhat with HollySprings about the safety of some modern fungicides. Mancozeb has recently been characterized as a "multipotent carcinogen." HollySprings takes full precautions, though.

    The EPA says it's ok to eat grapes, wheat, barley, etc. sprayed with Mancozeb. I'm not going to stay up all night worrying about what it's doing to people who look at my roses.

  • Kimmsr
    19 years ago

    Since this is an "ORGANIC rose growing forum" and if Hollysprings does not like organic she should not even be here.
    Maureen what to spray when depends on the problem, but the primary goal should be to get the soil into a condition that will allow good strong, healthy plants to grow that will shrug off pests and diseases without the use of dusts and sprays, environmentally safe or not. On occassion a gardener may need to control some problem and then that gardener should start with the least toxic solution available for that specific problem, not the broad spectrum poisons too readily available from the store shelves.

  • _sophiewheeler
    19 years ago

    I did not say anywhere that I do not like organics. 90% of all of my roses are grown "organically", if you want to label my no spray practices with that label. However, I feel that any person who seeks to grow roses organically should be educated enough to choose organic practices from a philosophical decision rather than knee jerk fear that all chemicals are evil. And, they should be fully informed that most modern roses aren't suited to the practice of organic disease control and that cultivar selection is the primary determinant of success rather than spraying any type of concoction. And, they should also be fully informed of the connection between poor disease control and winter kill. All of these things have an impact on how a gardener chooses to care for their roses, and it's only fair to seek to inform someone of all the relevant facts associated with making that decision. Even if one chooses one party in an election, it does help to understand the platform of the opposing candidate so that one can be assured of making the correct decision for the correct reasons rather than ignorance and fear. An educated decision of any kind is better than a knee jerk one, and it's a disservice to not discuss organic practices and their results as a contrast to chemical ones.

  • threeducks
    19 years ago

    Since this is an "ORGANIC rose growing forum" and if Hollysprings does not like organic she should not even be here.

    I didn't see anything in that post about liking or disliking any approach, just a thorough assesment of the pros and cons of chemicals vs. other chemicals (since "organics" are still chemicals). I would prefer to have that kind of honesty rather than be mislead into believing I could do the impossible.

    Back to the original question. Wettable sulfur is probably your best bet.

  • suziebee
    19 years ago

    Try not to spray unless you actually have a problem. The three main sprays you will need will be; an insecticde, a fungicide and a miticide. After pruning I spray with an oil and a copper spray, these can be mixed. Later in the season I use a garlic and pyrethrum spray, is not systemic and needs to be sprayed when necessary. All insecticides are toxic to bees so only spray when they have finished their days work. Use a summer oil if you have scale.

  • Stinez9
    19 years ago

    Hi Maureen,
    Have you ever heard of Gardens Alive? They are an organic garden supply company with many organic solutions to choose from. This year I used their Pyola insect spray which worked well for me (once a week for the months of May/June). I also bought some Soap-Shield fungicidal soap, but never had to use any, so can not vouch as to the effectiveness of that product. Anyway, you may want to check out their web-site at www.GardensAlive.com Good Luck!

  • pete41
    19 years ago

    Maureen-if you post on the rose forum either myself or someone else who heard Dr.Malcolm Manners presentation on Toxicity can give the gist of it.Holly Springs makes a good point.She always does IMHO.

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