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rose rooting help

Posted by cantu1216 7 (My Page) on
Wed, Feb 22, 12 at 17:06

i have been trying for almost 3 years to properly root a rose and i have yet to do it.(that may not seem long but im 20 so to me thats a very long time.haha) when i say properly i mean keep it alive after the roots have grown. last year i tried multiple methods of rooting roses and i had quite a few grow roots but after i would put them into a pot they die. i tried the leaving them in water method and roots grew but once i planted them they died. i also tried the baggie method and still same outcome. this year i am trying something new that i learned recently and its called the wrapping method. you just wrap the cuttings in moist newspaper and put them into a sealed bag and put them into a cool dark place. when i checked on them 2 days ago, one has started growing small roots and the others have callused. i want to know what can i do to help out the cuttings so they wont die.

and also if someone is nice enough or is willing to send their cuttings (rooted or not) to a struggling rookie then id be more than happy to accept them.


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: rose rooting help

Hi Cantu
Just wondering - how about putting them in a pot full of soil? That's what works for me!

That way, you don't have to transplant them until they're pot-bound and they will be nice-sized plants.

I am not an expert on roses and perhaps the kind that I have been propogating are different from yours, and maybe you've already
tried this method . . . but I have lots of adorable babies who even bloom while still tiny.

Send me your address and when I get more cuttings, I will share.
But most of what I have access to are roses that I do not know the names of.

For instance, this one is a delight to propogate and smells heavenly, and turns from pink to white.
Mar 5, 2011

Here it is blooming a few months after cutting
Photobucket

Susie


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RE: rose rooting help

  • Posted by seil z6b MI (My Page) on
    Sat, Feb 25, 12 at 14:35

It sounds like your rooting is just fine. It's what you're doing afterwards that seems to be the problem. What are you potting them in? Is it a good quality light potting soil? Do your pots have enough drainage? Do you keep the soil moist but not soggy? Where are you keeping them once they're potted up? Are they under lights inside the house or outside?


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susie- thats a great looking flower. whats your email? that way we can exchange info that way.

seil- i put them in brand new potting soil everytime. i have switched the type everytime one doesnt work. ive tried the regular miracle gro potting soil, the one that holds water better, one that drains better and even one meant for seed starting. last year i even tried a cheap top soil hoping it would work. if its spring or summer i put them outside with a baggie over them to keep the humidity up and they still dry up. if its winter or really cold then i put them in the window inside


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RE: rose rooting help

Cantu
I just sent a message to your email address through GW. Hope that's OK.

I'm sure the info exchange will be more to benefit ME since I know very little about roses.

Here's some little roses I started from cuttings last spring and I think I can give you some of these . . . .

Photobucket

Susie


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RE: rose rooting help

  • Posted by seil z6b MI (My Page) on
    Sat, Feb 25, 12 at 19:55

Well, I don't know what to say then, cantu. You've tried most everything I could suggest. Maybe you need to wait a little longer to let the roots grow more before you pot them. And I don't put baggies over mine. When I did that they tended to rot on me because it was too humid. Other than that I don't know.


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susie- thats a great looking plant. id love to have some.

seil-thats what i keep hearing. i was told the humidity would keep them alive. i think this year ill leave half with it and half without


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RE: rose rooting help

If they're "drying up", the bags you're putting over them aren't sealing to the pots and the humidity is evaporating. What I've done to eliminate the bags and having to harden them off to remove them from the bags is to bury them deeply in the pots or foam cups I plant them in. The cups are about six or so inches deep. If your cutting is six inches, put a small amount of soil in the pot or cup, then plant the cutting so that when the pot is filled with soil, all but about an inch or two of cutting is buried in damp potting soil. Leaving just a short section of the cutting in the air/sun while four or five inches are buried in damp soil helps it to form roots, remain hydrated and feed itself by photosynthesis the green parts of the canes produce when exposed to bright light. As they form new leaves and canes, you can check whether there is good root growth by carefully tipping the whole soil ball out to look. The potting soil should be firmed in so it comes out in one piece instead of breaking up.

Once there are sufficient roots, you may tip them out, add more soil to the bottom of the pot/cup, then set the roots on top of that soil and gently pull all of it above where you want to eventually plant it away from the cutting. Of course, you don't disturb the soil around the roots, just that which is against the "trunk" of the cutting. By this time, it is hardened off so removing the damp soil from around the cane between the roots and leaves isn't usually an issue.

If you put bags or bottles over them, any new growth which forms under those covers is soft and will fry if you simply remove the covers without gradually acclimating them to the drier, hotter air and sun. Burying them in the soil as I've described above eliminates the need to harden them off because the new growth has formed IN the drier, hotter air.

Growing them under covers also makes it very easy to cook them should the receive full sun for any length of time. Sunlight on closed bags or plastic bottles is very much like the inside of your car with the windows rolled up on a sunny day. It's surprising how hot it can become very quickly. Kim


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RE: rose rooting help

Kim- thanks for the help. that sounds like a good idea, never heard that before but it makes sense. ill give that a try and see if it helps


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Kim- thanks for the help. that sounds like a good idea, never heard that before but it makes sense. ill give that a try and see if it helps


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RE: rose rooting help

You're welcome! It's certainly improved my success and made it a whole lot easier. Kim


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RE: rose rooting help

  • Posted by seil z6b MI (My Page) on
    Sun, Feb 26, 12 at 13:22

I'm going to have to try that method, Kim. I usually try to have about half the bud eyes under the soil and half above. Maybe I'll give your method a go and see if I get better results. Although drying up isn't usually my problem here. For the most part mine will just turn black and rot. Humidity is something we have in abundance!


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RE: rose rooting help

With too much humidity, don't cover them! That only increases how wet they remain and promotes rot. That was one of the issues here. In Santa Clarita, there was no humidity and I had to propagate under plastic. Here, it meant guaranteed mold and rot. Wrapping them to keep them damp, cool and dark, then planting them deeply so most of the cutting was buried under damp, cool soil, like heeling in a bare root for the winter or until it can be planted, works wonders. None of them are covered. Here are some shots from this morning. All were wrapped the end of December, beginning of January. Kim

DSCN0884

DSCN0883

DSCN0882

DSCN0880

DSCN0879

DSCN0878

DSCN0876

DSCN0873

DSCN0872


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Kim- im know im probably late with this but your the person who writes the pushing the envelope blog or something like that. thats where i got the wrapping method from. how long would you recommend keeping the cuttings in the paper? ive had a couple in for about 2weeks and little roots are coming out. should i pot them or let them grow longer?


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Hi cantu, if you have roots forming in two weeks, get them potted as soon as it's convenient for you. Until they form roots in soil and are exposed to enough light to photosynthesize their own food, they're running on what's stored in the canes. The longer they remain unrooted and unplanted, the more of that stored resource they're using up. You want them to have as much of their self contained nutrients left as possible so they continue growing vigorously.

When you pot them, plant them as deeply in the pots or cups as possible so they don't dry out as easily as they can if most of the cane is exposed to the air.

Yes, that's my blog. I'm glad you're having good success with it. Wrapping can make it easier and faster to propagate roses and quite a few other types of plants. Good luck! Kim


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RE: rose rooting help

If you pot up a newly rooted cutting the early roots are extremely fragile so you have to handle with care. Most of mine transplant ok into individual pots but some varieties seem to resent transplanting and die soon afterwards. I'm going to try rooting those ones in individual pots this year so they can stay put until established.

Kim, do you think the wrapping method would work on hardwood prunings of last year's growth? I hate to throw away all the prunings but so far I have never rooted a hardwood cutting.
Linda


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RE: rose rooting help

Linda, THAT is precisely the type of wood wrapping works BEST with. From the emails and other responses I've received, that seems to be the hardest point to make. What you would normally use under bottles or in bags is NOT what works best with wrapping. It's too soft, too easily attacked by fungi and hasn't the necessary levels of stored nutrients to carry it the two weeks, forming callus and roots. Hard wood, the stuff you would normally just poke into the ground when pruning, has those higher levels of nutrients so they can feed themselves for the necessary longer periods of time. They are "harder", starchier, more dormant, which is why they require more time to shoot out new growth when pruned back to, compared to the newer, softer, more actively growing canes produced later in the spring/summer.

Recent flowering stems are what are suggested most often for propagation using baggies and bottles and for those methods, they would just fine. They require light and humidity to absorb moisture through the leaves and continue photosynthesizing chlorophyll while callusing and forming roots. They already have the actively growing foliage in good condition required to continue doing their job supporting the cutting. They've used up what was stored in the older wood the previous year and are now actively supporting the whole plant by producing food as needed. They DON'T contain the necessary stored reserves to support themselves when severed from the plant and denied the warm, moist environment with sufficient light they receive under mist, inside a plastic bag or under a bottle or jar. They are actively growing and demand those requirements, so, of course they fail when kept cool, dark and damp. They are too soft, too starved to remain alive under those conditions. You don't collect bud wood to store under near freezing, damp, dark conditions from soft wood. It won't work. You CAN bud directly from that softer wood to actively growing root stock and it CAN work, but you don't store it for weeks and months because it will simply die and rot, just as too soft cuttings do when wrapped in the 'burritos'.

The wrapping method is very much like what is done to store bud wood from fall of this year until summer of next year, only bud wood is held just above freezing to maintain dormancy and prevent development or deterioration. That would explain why cuttings in wraps don't callus when held in the refrigerator where the temperatures are low enough to prevent growth, just holding them over time as it does your carrots, beets, radishes and other harder produce.

So, yes, ma'am, those hard wood cuttings, the prunings from last year's growth, are exactly what you need for wrapping. That's why using this method begins delivering increasingly less successful results the later in the year you try it. You've not only used up the harder, more dormant material you want to remove from the plant, but what's left has begun releasing those stored nutrients to support the new growth the weather and your watering and fertilizing have stimulated.

As long as there is at least a good ring of callus on the cutting, I plant it deeply so at least half of the cutting remains surrounded by dark, moist, cooler soil. As long as the soil doesn't dry out too far or remain soggy and nothing either disturbs it or causes rot, they root extremely well in several hours of direct sun (10 to about 1) here this time of year.

I consider the cambium tissue much like animal stem cells. What it develops into and the functions it performs depends upon what triggers it receives. Just as stem cells can change into different types of tissues and perform different functions depending on what is needed in the animal (or human) body, cambium can do much the same. Giving it warmth, light and nutrients triggers it to function as circulatory system, delivering sap from the roots to the cane and leaf tips. Wound the plant and it forms scar tissue to heal the wound, stop sap "bleed" (loss) and prevent infection from pathogens entering the wound. Injure it by inserting a growth bud or graft from another rose and it "knits", glues them together, forming new circulatory system to provide the newly attached piece the sap and other resources it needs to grow and develop. Wound it by cutting or scraping it to expose it and provide the warmer, moister, sunnier conditions found under a bag, bottle or mist and it forms callus and roots to produce an own root plant, providing that's possible given the genetics of the variety and the conditions are right.

Change those conditions to cool, damp and dark and the cambium calluses, eventually forming root tissue, provided there are sufficient moisture and nutrients. Keep those under too cold temperatures and they remain in suspended animation like your carrots do in the crisper. Keep them too warm and they try to form new growth shoots instead of callus and roots. Use material which doesn't contain enough stored resources and they collapse just as some cuttings which break into growth and attempt to flower, then collapse, do. Kim


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RE: rose rooting help

Kim- so even if the cutting just has callus, it can be planted? it doesnt need "real" roots growing yet?


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YES! If you planted cuttings in soil or sand, then waited for them to root, many would form callus then roots. Some wouldn't show as much callus and would form roots, but there is some callus as it's the intermediate stage between cambium and roots.

Wrapping simply permits you to speed up the process, often generating callus on cuttings which may not have rooted using other methods. As long as there is some callus, if given the other necessary conditions, there should be root formation.

Those other conditions are cool, mostly dark and moist. That's why burying them deeper in the pots/cups than you might traditionally, works like "heeling in", keeping them damp, dark, and cool while permitting some green parts access to light so they photosynthesize nutrients to replace those used to callus and begin rooting. Kim


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Kim, that's very interesting! Thanks for explaining it.
I am going to try it very soon.
Linda


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  • Posted by seil z6b MI (My Page) on
    Mon, Feb 27, 12 at 20:29

Thanks, Kim. I never cover my cuttings anymore. I tried all those methods, baggies, pop bottles, glass bell jars, the works and got ZERO results! The first time I ever got any cutting to root was when I just stuck one in the ground and left it on it's own. I was thrilled months later when I was getting ready to winter protect and found a rose bush instead of a dead cane! Since then I leave all my cuttings open to the air and I've had much better luck and have several nice plants to show for it.

I see some wrapping in my spring pruning time future, lol! I have several older roses that I'd like to root for a "just in case" kind of thing because they're not readily available any more.


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I never do anything to add humidity to my cuttings, and most of them root and do well. These are young stems taken just after bloom.


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RE: rose rooting help

You can get a good idea whether enclosing the cuttings might be needed by your relative humidity. My old climate was VERY arid. Anything cut and left out without cover, dried out quite quickly. In this one, they will, but it takes a lot longer, sometimes days instead of the hours required in the old one. As long as you experience higher relative humidity, covering your cuttings with plastic or glass is going to pretty much guaranty they'll rot. If you're having those issues, try planting them deeply so at least half (or more if possible) of the cuttings are under the soil level. That should help without the mold issues. Kim


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Hello Kim, I'm a little late to the "burrito" discussion. Could you please share a link to your blog and/or post that explains this method? Thanks so much.


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I made three burritos yesterday. I scored the bases of the cuttings as usual but didn't use any rooting hormone. I usually remove some thorns from the bases of cuttings but didn't bother since the whole cutting is kept damp. I forget where I read about removing thorns. Even if it is not necessary it makes them easier to handle.

Now, I had bad luck with planting calloused wrapped cuttings in the past ( that were sent to me in the mail) and wonder what went wrong. They had not rooted yet but looked like they were about to. I planted them fairly deep in Miracle Grow potting soil and gave them dappled light. Humidity levels are fine here for rooting cuttings in the open, but maybe they were not high enough for a cutting that was used to the high humidity of being wrapped. Maybe I didn't plant them deep enough.


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RE: rose rooting help

Hi Spiderlily. Below is the beginning post to the wrapping cuttings portion of my blog. I would suggest you read it from the start through the last entry concerning the wraps. You may also glean further posts here on the propagation forum as well as the Granada Rejuvination Experiment. As new questions arise, new discoveries are offered, more tweaks are suggested, so following it all through the line should provide you with the benefit of everyone's experiences and observations. It is NOT difficult as long as you make sure the paper is not drippy wet; the cuttings are not actively growing; all foliage is removed (if there is any left on them); the bags are sealed so no moisture escapes while they are developing; the temperature is controlled to remain as much as possible in the range between 59 and 69 degrees. There is leeway in everything, but individual conditions vary go greatly, only you can determine what you can alter and still succeed.

Good luck! Let us know how you do. Kim

Here is a link that might be useful: Wrapping cuttings


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Kim- i was wondering, have you tried this method with any other types of plants?


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I'm watching four lilac cuttings I did it with in early January. They don't have roots showing in the soil balls yet, but all are budding out and remaining fresh. It doesn't work with Lauris nobilis, and I haven't heard how it worked with Caesalpinia. I don't need it for Hibiscus sinensis, azalea, althea or dwarf myrtle, and there isn't anything else in the yard I'm inclined to experiment with at the moment. What did you have in mind? Kim


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thanks for the informative thread and help. I gave this a try using what I heard her e and some on the net. Used plastic water bottles so I could see roots develop and clonex. I made a mix of peat, vermiculite, perlite, and some potting soil. Took 6 cuttings. Used a see though plastic storage bin sitting under. Tree in the shade. I misted leaves, in the morning, after work, and before bed. Only one cutting took root but I think it was rookie error of using too thin a cane. the one that rooted was the thickest. A razor blade easily slices the plastic bottle so a nice flap drops open and the plant easily potted once the roots grew. Roots were also growing from the green stem. now it has a couple of buds and new leaves. its a Chicago Peace on its own roots. all the other cuttings were a thornless smooth lady that failed. Don't think I have the patience to wait until fall to plant my new rose. once it's full of leaves I think it's going in the ground. it's really too hot here to try again. I think they would cook. LOL


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BTW holes were drilled into the side of the plastic container for airflow.


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Great info, thanks!
Cantu, I never had ANY luck with cuttings using the baggie, bottle, etc. methods that so many folks do well with.
My first success (in a hot muggy climate) was open-air, 1/2 day sun, rooting under mist. I mean an amateur set-up--one of those $20 mist cooler kits sold at home-improvement stores & no timer. I had best luck in fall & early winter (very mild climate). I stacked a thick bed of rotting hay under the pots for bottom heat & it also kept them surrounded by cooling moisture.

Virtually all cuttings I've ever lost were due to rot, not drying. Even rot can look like drying out--the stem gets striated--but the base at soil level was blackened--ROT.

I started watering newly rooted plants with a hydrogen peroxide dose in the water. Someone here suggested it, I'm sorry I can't recall who, or recommended amount. I just slop 1-2 tablespoons or so per gallon. I also saturate the initial rooting medium with it (sharp sand/coco fiber) & it really seems to reduce rot loss.

I'm just starting up again & am anxious to incorporate the suggestions here & do some burrito wraps. Thank you all again for the great information.


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RE: rose rooting help

Hey Arturo!

What is the status on your rooting routine? Did you get any of the ones I sent you to root?

All the ones I stuck have rooted and are now blooming. So if you didn't have any luck, let me know
and I can send more cuttings and perhaps, one of these plants.

Later -
Susie


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RE: rose rooting help

Very nice posting by Kim the rosegeek.


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