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kris2001

Has anyone successfully propagated david austin's Molineux?

kris2001
15 years ago

Has anyone successfully propagated david austin's Molineux?

I have a 3 yr old Molineux, how do I propagate? Pls share your exp. with this amazing rose!

Thanks

kris

s.e.PA

Comments (66)

  • dmaivn
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    When it's hard to propagate by rooting cuttings you can try 2 things

    1/ Root a hardwood cutting of it. Pick a mature stems about 3 months old which have flowered and grow laterals then flower again. Prune it back. Take the cutting and store it in a refigerator for 1 week (optional). A cold snap for it will make it sleep (and want to wake up later). Then you just root this cutting. The warmer temperature will wake it up. Make sure the mix is sandy and free draining.

    2/ Root a rotostock and learn how to bud roses. This gives you more consistent results. You can also bud this rose on another rose that can root easily. Then take the cutting to root. The host rose become kind of a rootstock. It works OK even if you don't use well-accepted rootstocks like multiflora, dr huey, ...

  • tkopari
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Does anyone know of an online up to date list of expried rose patents so I won't have to search for each variety individually, as I believe I would on Help Me Find? I'd like to see an alphabetical list of all of them.

  • triple_b
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Object 16 compiled an exhaustive list of ALL the Austins along with their date introduced. Just add 20 years or so and you will know who's patent expired. Or to dumb it down, anything before 1988. It is a place to start, particulary if you like Austins. It is the 9th entry down the page.
    As for all the other roses out there, I don't know if any such list exists as there are hundreds upon hundreds and some are sure to be missed.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Austin chronology

  • cannabisgrower
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    That was not object16 with the exhaustive list:
    the thread is correct, but I believe it's a user called decobug. Just enter that thread and scroll down. So, if you did some work, would you not deserve to be paid? Especially let's not disrespect David Austin, since it is to him that we owe a great debt of gratitude for bringing us these wonderful hybrids - so only propagate what you're entitled to, and don't tell anyone about the rest - I'm sure he's well off enough and
    earns enough royalties. Let's just not be too obvious about it. Looking at it the other way, when we propagate, we also promote, and make DA more popular, increases him reputation, and boosts his sales. In any case, I'm sure that most average gardeners are going to buy their DA's from the store. Sativa.

  • trospero
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    "Looking at it the other way, when we propagate, we also promote, and make DA more popular, increases him reputation, and boosts his sales."

    Baloney. Thats just a selfish rationalization at work. Giving away illegal copies in no way increases sales for anyone, it robs from potential sales.

  • triple_b
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    sorry decobug. I stand corrected. Must've been a brain f**t.

  • jerijen
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    How are you going to prove that the person with the rose bush did not buy it???

    *** So -- stealing is OK, as long as you don't get caught?
    Bosh.
    There are hundreds and hundreds of Old Roses, which SHOULD be propagated and spread around.
    If you've an itch to propagate, propagate those!

    Jeri

  • echinaceamaniac
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    People, stop being so rude to kris. This is the propagation forum after all.

    kris, Look up air layering. This almost always works for me. If it doesn't work for this rose, I'd be very surprised. I use a large peat pellet and a zip lock bag. It's very easy.

    I tried the regular cuttings and it didn't work. This method has worked 100% for me. I'm going to do my Evelyn rose tonight after work. I need to keep that one going!

  • trospero
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    This is not about being rude to anyone, its about educating people about Patent laws as they apply to roses and the people who grow them. The consumer does not have the right to propagate patent protected varieties, for any reason, even for their own gardens. That said, people do it all the time and nobody is going to come knocking on your door to arrest you for it. That doesn't mean you aren't stealing revenue from the hybridizer who produced the rose for you to enjoy.

    As the saying goes, let your conscience be your guide.

  • cannabisgrower
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    It boils down to this: If someone comes to your employer, or your husband's employer, and
    asks your employer to lay you off, or lay your husband off, and that they will do the same work you did, but for free, and the employer says OK, and you are then told you or your husband have been laid off from your job, and you are OK with this, then you are OK with stealing revenue from David Austin. If your answer is no, you would like to keep your job, and be paid fairly for it, then you are not OK with stealing David Austin's revenue. And if you disagree with the premise, then you are just being duplicitous, and make up one set of rules for you, and one set of rules for others.
    David Austin has to pay for: a roof over his head, food, his car, gasoline, his utility bills, taxes, entertainment, travel, clothing, etc. He does this by selling royalties from roses that he has meticulously developed FOR YOU. We live in a civil society, a society of laws. You probably also own property: such as perhaps a house. How would you feel if someone came along and stole your house? (through identity theft), or stole your clothes or possessions? If you don't mind people stealing your stuff, if you are o.k. with it, then by all means go ahead and steal stuff from David Austin. If however you object to people stealing your stuff, then also YOU: keep your mitts off David Austin's stuff, which is called intellectual property, and was designed by the law, in order to promote the advancement of new inventions, research, and the development of a more advanced society. We are able to live in a just and free society, because we are people of laws, and these laws are there in order that David Austin can make new roses, and sell them to pay for his bills. If you believe in lawlessness, and people just have to steal what they want, and don't have to work for it then you need to start a new political party, and run on the platform of NO law and order, and that all laws should be repealed, and that the courts should be disbanded, and the legislature should be disbanded. If you wish to live in that kind of society, then God help us all. Sativa.

  • echinaceamaniac
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I can't believe I'm being lectured by cannabisgrower about laws! LMAO!

  • cannabisgrower
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    One more point I forgot to mention, you believe that DA is well off, so it is ok to steal from him. DA is well off because he is successful. Our system rewards success by increasing our prosperity. Just because someone is well off due to their hard work, this is not a good excuse to steal from them.

    Also, I happen to live in Lisbon Spain. According to Spanish law, I am entitled to grow all the cannabis I want, on my own premises, for my own use, and for the use of my family members. You just happen to live in USA, where cannabis is illegal, because Big Pharmaceutical companies write the laws, so that you are forced to buy their drugs that do no good, distilleries write the laws so you are forced to buy poisonous alcohol that kills, the Jail Industry writes the laws, so they can keep 1% of your population behind bars, mostly African American, half there for cannabis, because the Incarceration Industry is addicted to profit, and the law enforcement industry, that is racist and needs any excuse to arrest you for being African American or Hispanic (since these people are usually poorer, cannot afford the white man's alcohol, can only afford to smoke what they find growing in a ditch), love cannabis because they get tons of overtime and promotions.
    We in Spain are very familiar with laws, and we know which laws are just, and which ones are passed simply for the profit of the corporation. Anti Cannabis laws are there ONLY for the benefit of the corporation, whereas pro-Cannabis laws benefit the people. Your country is ruled by the corporation, and that is the reason for the phony "law" making cannabis "illegal". Viva Cannabis! Viva! Viva! Viva!!! Sativa.

  • echinaceamaniac
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    cannabisgrower, Take a chill pill. Don't take propagation so seriously. Relax. Smoke one of your doobies! LOL.

  • cannabisgrower
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    My name cannabisgrower is strictly chosen as a novelty. Even though I am legally entitled to grow as much cannabis as I want, living in Spain, I choose not to. I did take cannabis at one point several years ago, but after a while grew tired of it and discontinued it. This should lay to rest the notion that cannabis is somehow addictive, because it is not. It is also not a gateway drug - it is only a gateway if you do not have a supply of proper and potent high grade drug. If you take cannabis, you have no desire to take anything else. However, if your cannabis comes from a place that is waging a bogus "War on Drugs", such as USA, then your cannabis is likely is poor quality, and will not give you the high you are looking for, forcing you to take harder drugs, and then get addicted. But, however, like I said, I no longer partake of this, in that my life has entered a new phase, and as such I now grow roses for a hobby, and my indoor gardening facilities are strictly used for the production of roses, and clivias. Because of my reverence for the dedication of the rose breeder, and my gratitude for living in a post-renaissance society, which values study and innovation, this has nothing to do with taking a chill, or being so serious. As the great Martin Luther King Jr. said "the day that we stop talking about things that are important, is the day we begin to die." Today, is not the day that I choose to begin to die.
    Peace, and out, Sativa.

  • WOODSGRANNY
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    where the he-- is cannibisgrower from,canada or spain?wish i had a ticket for her.i came here to read friendly forum,D--M she makes it hard.how long have you rose growers had to put up with this? patricia

  • nastarana
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I also am not interested in paying upwards of $25. for Dr. Mildew Magnet. I prevent coups by burying the bud union at least 4 inches below ground, never mind all the rose books which advise one to do the opposite. Often roses so planted eventually become own root.

  • nastarana
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    DA may be wealthy, but the nursery down the street from me is locally owned, and hires local people, not someone's cousin from out of the area, but people who actually live here. Illegal propagation hurts local vendors, not just breeders. Molineux is in no danger of becoming extinct before the patent runs out, so I don't think we should be making copies.

    I do hope Trospero and others will agree that the person at the flea market selling self-propagated "roses", who neither knows nor cares about patent and patent dates is at least as much to be condemned as a backyard gardener who just wants one more of what he already paid for.

  • cannabisgrower
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thank you nastarana.
    There is more than enough that a flea market type seller can propagate that has already expired. Unlike bread, old roses do not go bad. The really good ones persist, and are around long after the patent is over - because they have universal appeal, grow well, are popular. And this popularity will make them ideal for the flea market person, they will be marketing a product that has withstood the test of time. I planted out 40 Fair Bianca's that I propagated myself, along the pathway to the cross at our Lighted Cross Garden, a community garden cared for mainly by volunteers, with very little funds. Even after 27 years, Fair Bianca keeps giving and giving. Also, she has a pink sport which happens fairly regularly, she is healthy, hardy, and fragrant. Hardy even up here in zone 4b. Again, I have too much respect and gratitude for the fine work of David Austin, and the dedication of the little people owners of small garden centres trying to scratch out a living, than to pirate their work. Think about that carefully, when you propagate something you're not entitled to, you are a pirate. Is that what you want to be known as. Would you go around bragging to others:"I am a pirate". If not, then don't be one. If so, then you should not be merrily chirping about the "American Dream"; American Dream comes from hard work and honesty, not piracy. Cheers, Sativa.

  • trospero
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Golly, is this the same cannabisgrower that said to me earlier in this same thread "This is not the forum for you to push your authoritarian view points, it's a forum for how to propagate a rose."??? *laughs* make up your mind, dear; which side are you on??

  • cannabisgrower
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hey Trospero, just because I'm human doesn't mean that I'm set in my ways - that's the purpose of the internet - an exchange of ideas, independent thought, and then insight!!! Yeah, first I started on the juevenile side, like the law is meant to be broken, but then I realized that that does not really stick it to the man, it just sticks it to the little guy. So although I called you an authoritarian, at first, I take that back, it was spoken in haste without proper consideration, and now I see that in reality, you are the conscience of the forum. My apologies, although I saw you, I did not recognize you, at first. (Takes hat off, makes slight bowing motion with head). Cheers, Sativa.

  • cannabisgrower
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    If you're concerned that you're going to lose the rose, then by all means plant it deep. Rose culture does allow you to plant deep, and this will not break a patent law. I will however, let your canes naturally root themselves, and if the roots are hardy (they probably will be with a DA), your bush will get bigger and bigger each year, which still does not break the patent law, you can encourage the bush to even get bigger by bending down a few canes (this gets into a grey zone), which is really just an extension of "pegging", which is also acceptable in rose culture, in my opinion. Really in my opinion, this just means that I am encouraging my bush to grow in the domain of the soil, which
    does happen naturally in nature, canes do bend down, and naturally root themselves at the point of contact with the ground, and since we are gardeners, I think we are entitled to do what comes naturally to a bush. Cutting a piece off, and rooting the cut off piece does not happen in nature, and air layering does not happen in nature, so I think this would be on the wrong side of grey. But by encouraging the bush to do what it does naturally, we are just using our gardening skills, to "maximize the potential of the bush". And I think to that, David Austin would probably give a nod of approval, I really in my heart believe he would.
    By the end of the period of patent, this bush would be of a quite magnificent size, and at that point, it would be ethical to split it up into several daughter plants. I suspect though, at that point, you wouldn't want to disturb it. I really don't believe this would fall into the crass category of "getting something for nothing", it just represent intelligent plant husbandry. You may disagree, but at least I have offered a reasonable defense to my points, and this should keep everyone happy. Sativa.

  • nastarana
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Cannabis, Your Fair Bianca hedge must be beautiful Might we press you for a picture? Now, what would be the legal status of the pink sport. I believe someone has introduced a "Pink Bianca", so that introducer must be the patent holder, no?

    In the USA, flea market vendors often tend to be English-challenged persons of undetermined origin, and have benefited from the belief that "multiculturalism" is A Good Thing, even when laws are broken. Some of us are getting tired of the hypocrisy--hence my query to Trospero.

  • mgleason56
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Lets get this straight; on one post cannabis is living in Canada. On this post, Spain. What's next, Uranus? I hear cannabis is also legal to grow there.

    It could not be any easier to find out if a rose is patented or not. I just looked up the original rose in question, and it took all of 15 seconds.

    First - Look up the rose in question on HMFR. Here its Molineux
    Next - Copy the registration name (AUSmol) and paste into the US Patent database (http://patft.uspto.gov/netahtml/PTO/search-bool.html). Here is part of what that gives you;

    United States Patent PP9,524
    Austin April 30, 1996

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Shrub rose plant named `Ausmol`

    Abstract
    A shrub rose having repeat flowering with rich yellow old fashioned shaped flowers.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Inventors: Austin; David C. H. (Albrighton, GB2)
    Assignee: David Austin Roses Limited (GB2)
    Appl. No.: 08/404,160
    Filed: March 14, 1995

  • mgleason56
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    And by the way, on patent infringement, I propagate and sell lots of roses, and have been trying for years to get permission to sell roses out of commerce, but still protected by patent (ie. Black Beauty). After 4 years I have gotten nowhere! I agree with Trospero to a point, but what about roses like this? As long as I am willing to pay to propagate these, why should I be refused?

  • cannabisgrower
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hi, I just said that I live in Spain to point out the arbitrariness of cannabis prohibition. I should have said, how do you know I don't live in Spain. Most people are totally surprised that Spain encourages people to grow their own cannabis, and in doing so, have driven the drug dealers out of business, have a much smaller prison population, and have won the phony "war on drugs" without firing a single shot, and without a single arrest. The police now concentrate on law enforcement, instead of doing the bidding of the corporate master, which they do in mine and yours country, at ours, the taxpayers expense. They put us in jail and then send us the bill.

    I think if Fair Bianca sports pink in my hands, I'm entitled to use that pink sport as I see fit, even though someone else has patented their own pink sport. I think if I bought the pink sport from someone, and this was a descendant of the patented sport, that would be different. By the way in my experience Winchester Cathedral often reverts to pink (which would be Mary Rose).

    I'm really impressed with my Fair Bianca hedge. It started out as 4 - 6" cuttings last fall, which were grown on indoors, and at this point they have been growing continuously for 7 months, and they are starting to look like 2 -3 year old bushes. Because the cuttings were taken from a bush that has some pink branches and some white branches, some of my cuttings ended up growing out as pink.
    The mother bush (which I propagated as well) is really neat to look at in full bloom, with both pink and white flowers, so I'll take pics and post them, of the mother plant and of my hedge, during the next flush. Please take into account also, my northern latitude, Sault Ste. Marie Ontario, and the cold climate (5a-4b), and that this bush usually is NOT protected in the winter, and so far not a single one has been lost during all the time I've been growing them (8+ years). Sativa.

  • patsy_b
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Back to the question that is the reason for this post. I bought a Molineux from Chamblee's a couple of years ago and found that I had several separate plants in the same pot. Should I have thrown the extras away or was I breaking the law (according to Sativa) by planting the extras as well. I have noticed that many of the own root plants that Chamblee's sell have more than one in the same pot. I take it from that they put several cuttings in the pots when they start the own roots. If this is the case Molineux is one of the easier to root. One of the antique roses that I bought from them had 8 plants in the same pot.

    Patsy

  • trospero
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    "I agree with Trospero to a point, but what about roses like this? As long as I am willing to pay to propagate these, why should I be refused?"

    There are two ways to look at this: from the perspective of the owner of the patent in question, and the perspective of the rose grower who simply wants to see a decent rose preserved and distributed. I am very familiar with both sides of that coin and know fully well that they are often at odds with one another.

    If you want to look at it from the patent owners side, its legally within their rights to not grant permission to propagate a variety if they wish. Personally, I can see no good reason to take this position, but alas, some of the "big boys" do this with little regard to the preservation of a variety. I suspect that to grant a license to a farmers market grower to propagate one scarce rose would result in so little income (through royalties) that would not even pay to process the paperwork involved. Seriously, if you were to sell 50 plants of "Obscure Rose X" a year, it would pay the patent holder about $50 US, not even close to paying for the trouble of setting up the paperwork. Not hard to imagine why they aren't motivated.

    Now, a rose grower has an entirely different set of motives; mostly, we simply want to share some of these rare and on-patent roses because the patent holder hasn't grown and distributed the variety for many years, in some cases. Some of these roses are virtually extinct in commerce, and frankly, that does the breeder no good whatsoever, and the rose growing public cannot get these plants no way, no how. What are we to do with a situation like that? Well, you can either follow the letter of the law and not propagate and distribute the rose, or you can do as you wish and distribute it at will, knowing fully well that the odds of there ever being repercussions are very slim indeed. If the patent owner refuses to grant permission to propagate, they are essentially saying no thanks to your offer to pay for the rights to do so. Thats a double no in my book; no, you can't propagate it legally and no, you can't propagate it illegally. So what it comes down to is what motivates you to propagate and distribute the rose, and can you justify acting on that decision. There is an ethical aspect to it, to be sure. There's also a very real legal aspect as well. But there is also a passion aspect for the rose grower; you want the rose distributed, to make it less rare, and part of you doesn't like being told no!

    And so, as far as I'm concerned, its up to the individual how they choose to act in this situation. Do what you are comfortable with. Try not to break any laws, but if you aren't stealing revenue from the patent holder (yes, the one who told you they didn't want your royalty payments) then whats the harm in selling ten or twenty copies of a rose that is otherwise extinct in commerce? Just be quiet about what you do, and don't gouge people by pricing it outrageously high.

    Please remember that these remarks specifically address only those roses which the patent holder does not distribute themselves and which are still protected by their patents. If there are legal distributing agents, licensed to propagate a rose and makes it available to commerce, I would temper my comments by leaning more on the side of following legal constraints, as the patent holder has clearly decided to allow some agents to propagate the rose legally, and if they decide you are not going to be one of those agents, its their right to make that decision.

  • trospero
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Patsy,
    If a merchant sends you five plants in one container, how are you to know whether or not they paid David Austin royalties on one, or all five? Once a merchant sends you merchandise, I think you are free to use it as it was given to you, in other words I wouldn't hesitate to separate the plants and use them as individuals. You didn't propagate the rose, you just separated the pieces you were sent.

  • teka2rjleffel
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    This is definitely a sore point for some. Regarding the original post. I received a cutting of Molineux from another forum member (who will remain nameless). That cutting sat there and sat there. I was going to throw it away several times and just didn't get around to it, mainly because it was still green, just a stick but a green stick. Finally a stem grew up next to the original. It took probably four months. It is now a full fledged rose. So if you try this from a cutting be patient.

  • weldontx
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    An answer for Patsy. NO, you do not throw away the extras in the pot from Chamblees. Mark, as a rule, will start 3 cuttings per pot. That way, he's almost always assured of getting at least one successful rooting. The extras are a bonus, since the cost of separating and repotting would only add to your costs. He is one who prefers to give added value. ENJOY.
    BTW.... sin is sin, great or small. said and done.

  • patsy_b
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I do so enjoy going to Chamblee's. Unfortunately since I live in the Waco area and drive one of those spoiled American's SUVs I doubt if I will be going again any time soon. That along with already having 200 or so bushes that are so hard to take care of when temps are 100+ with no rain. Is that enough whinning?????? Thanks trospero and weldontx for the assurance that I am not a sinner.
    patsy

  • scorpiohorizon
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I used to have "The Fairy" and she re-rooted herself all over the place. Last spring, she gave birth to five new babies all around her--and good sized ones, too.

    If a rose clones itself without the hybridizer's permission, is it guilty of copyright infringement and subject to punishment via the laws of the United States (which are not the laws of Canada or Spain, btw)?

    Sorry--I just couldn't resist... but there is a fragment of a serious question in there. What if a patented rose reroots itself?

  • cannabisgrower
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    we already kind of discussed all around the question of layering already. it was my opinion that since layering happens in nature, getting a bush to "spread", by having it grow in the soil domain, should be alright, as long as you don't sever the new bush. this to me is no different than very deep planting, which is accepted in rose culture, as well, to get the budded canes to self root. layering is o.k. because pegging is an accepted part of rose culture, and there is not really much difference between pegging and layering. i already had a long winded discussion of this point up above.
    but please wait for the 20 years to be up before splitting the whole thing up (in 20 years, the bush could be huge, and you probably wouldn't even want to split it up at that point - it would probably be a neighbourhood landmark by that point) i don't think there is a law against the bush doing what comes naturally to it, anymore than there is a law against my dog peeing on your lawn (someone contested this in Montreal, and my dog has a right to pee on your lawn. if it poops however, I have to clean it up) Sativa.

  • scorpiohorizon
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I'm not talking about layering or pinning, which imply purposefulness on the part of the grower. I am talking about the plant just doing it all on its own. I went out to spring prune and found 6 bushes where there had been only one the year before, and without any help from me.

  • cannabisgrower
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    well that's what i just said, how do you know if the bush did it or someone did it. just the bush will not split itself up, so it should be ok as long as u dont split it up. the fact that the bush can do it on its own means that u can help it.
    in biology they call it symbiosis. the bush helps me by giving a nice smell, which drops my blood pressure and lets me live longer, earn more money and support a larger clan. i help the bush by layering it, and the bush gets bigger, whereas other plants that do not have these desireable characteristics get pruned out. the bigger bush then has more blooms, which improves my health even more. by exercising while out in my garden, my heart gets stronger, and improves my chance of surviving a heart attack, and lessens the chance of getting one. i think its called symbiosis. similar relationship humans have with cannabis. the only problem with cannabis is other unfriendly humans find cannabis a handy excuse to jail blacks and hispanics, by creating racist laws. stop the war on drugs, everyone knows alcohol is far more dangerous than weed, but alcohol is legal because it's the white man's drug, and the distillers make large campaign contributions to make sure old white men continue to tell us what to do and run our country and the world into the ground. Sativa.

  • trospero
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    /me checks to see which forum we're in.....

    Sativa,
    Its a good thing to be politically aware and have strong opinions, but expressing them on a rose propagation forum is inappropriate. Please curb your enthusiasm for such topics and save them for an appropriate venue. :-)

  • patsy_b
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I do not know why the rose forum has become a soapbox for an expert on pot to try to force her views onto us. I have personal experience that not all people are immune to getting hooked on this terrible weed. I had a nephew that we took in when he was 8. He got into the "weed" when he was 15. Spent several years in prison for that love. Completely different person when using. Killed himself when using. BTW he was not black or hispanic. Don't try to tell me it is harmless. That being said why can't we just discuss roses?
    Patsy

  • cannabisgrower
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    after a while, with roses, everything to discuss has already been discussed. so i just link roses with the larger world, for the sake of having discussion. also, cannabis is grown as a plant, so it's not like it's not a plant or anything. and we're discussing the legalities of roses, so why not go into legalities of pot at the same time, which is actually a much more pressing topic. pot - it needs to be sold in stores and controlled like tobacco and alcohol, no minors to be involved with it, otherwise there will be problems, as mentioned above.

  • trospero
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    "after a while, with roses, everything to discuss has already been discussed."

    WRONG
    As hybridizers create new works that address both changes in style and cultivation methods (IE: the pursuit of Earth-friendly roses), there will always be new things to discuss. Horticulture is never a static art; it evolves and science provides us with new insights continuously. To suggest otherwise is unenlightened, to say the least.

    "we're discussing the legalities of roses, so why not go into legalities of pot at the same time"

    Thats like saying to a group of people at a Book Club meeting "Well, since we're talking about books anyway, lets discuss my vacuum cleaner manual and the Business Section of this morning's newspaper while we're at it. I'll say it again, this discussion has strayed seriously off topic and I'd appreciate it if people would stop phishing for attention by discussing drug laws here. It's not appropriate.

  • cannabisgrower
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    ouch, someone is seriously pro-prohibition. the day we stop talking about things that are important is the day we begin to die. this is not a discussion about vacuum cleaners and the business section. how can we look ourselves in the mirror after going out and smelling the roses, knowing that 1% of our population is behind bars because of prohibition? yeah, I know, the rose helps us forget, but I think we should also remember that there are many out there that will never get to smell the rose we are so fond of, because of an intolerable injustice against our own brothers and sisters. sativa.

  • cannabisgrower
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    People there are talking about bees and pesticides and why the world is dying. they're not covering their eyes with their hands, and burying their heads in the sand, while the eggheads talk about this DA and that DA, and what is the meaning of a copywright. see you there:

    Here is a link that might be useful: Antique old garden rose forum where they're holding a discussion on politics.

  • trospero
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    That discussion is directly related to Rose growing and its effects on our environment. Including discussion about legalizing certain drugs has nothing to do with the subject of rose growing. You are not making any friends by pursuing your pro-drug agenda here, as you have already seen. Do as you wish, but you will find the moderators do not take a kindly view of people who persist in the disruption of on-topic discussions here.

    Oh, and do me a favor, and stop putting words in my mouth.

  • cannabisgrower
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    How are bees directly related to rose growing? they're not.
    If you read the thread, people post opinions about urban sprawl, and abuse of fossil fuels, in that particular thread.
    How is urban sprawl related to rose growth? it's not. the only difference is in that thread, it's not being policed by the judgemental crowd. We're not all that small minded, people who work the earth, should have respect for the earth, and I think if the discussion is about respect for the earth it should not be banned, as you would like it to be. People who work the earth, and feel a connection to the earth, should be conscientious about being stewards of the earth. grow up.

  • trospero
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    By all means bring up your pro-drug agenda in THAT thread and see where it gets you. *smiles*

  • cannabisgrower
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    you don't recognize that the "pro drug" agenda is actually part of an anti-fascist agenda, that the US system has become a dominionist system controlled by a hierarchy that is becoming more rigid, embedded, and authoritarian. the same system that puts people in jail for growing cannabis, is the system that determines our social structure, how we live, where we live, what kind of health care we get (or don't get), what kind of products and services we are expected to buy, what kind of houses we are expected to live in, what employment is available to us (or not available), which employment will be sent overseas to slave states, and which class of people will be entitled to which class of jobs, which country our sons and daughters will be sent to war in. You accept you chains of enslavement willingly, in fact you demand them, because you have been manipulated by the media (dominionist owned propaganda machine) into a state of chronic fear about the non-existent moral decay of our society, the non-existent threat of Islamic extremism, and the fully-existent threat that tomorrow you will be out of work and have absolutely no way of supporting yourself.
    You, yourself, willingly become part of that system, in order to suppres dissent.
    I'm not talking about drugs, I'm talking about my life, my family, my country, and my environment. Without that, roses are nothing.
    go ahead, smile away.

  • trospero
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    *stares in disbelief*

    I will not engage you further, on this, or any other topic.

  • cannabisgrower
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    good.

  • carla17
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Wow, I only read this post because it's a duplicate of one that was on the rose forum and got the same responses. I think this needs to be on Hot Topics.
    Cannibas, you seem eager to argue. Grow that pot or not, noone cares.

    Carla

  • nastarana
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Please don't feed the trolls.

  • cannabisgrower
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    like this one?
    * Posted by aliska12000 5a (My Page) on
    Wed, Jul 30, 08 at 23:12

    catsrose, CA has paved millions of acres for millions of resource-devouring cars

    I have given that subject much contemplation, it has greatly angered me at times, even now in Iowa, parts of CA and huge megapolises are a total turnoff to me because of the labyrinthe of freeways, and so wished we didn't have so many fatal accidents, especially since we had one main shopping area, downtown, then malls became so popular. Those huge parking lots paved over with concrete or asphalt and so much driving to get anywhere now because it's all spread out and much of it major ugly imo only, now much abandoned and left urban decay behind because business would be better somewhere else, plus most or all of it can be expensed off of income for business. But I'm not against all corporations because I don't perceive everything as corporate greed or evil, some, yes.

    But with all due respect, I believe banning personal ownership of cars is too extreme. I don't feel like I hog more than my share of the world's resources with my old, small car which I drive very seldom. I cherish the right to own one car at a time of my own and love the freedom it gives me even though I'm aware of the risks and downside. What I cherish for myself, I could not be complicit in imposing on others (sure feel like it sometimes with crooks, drug runners, speeders, drunk drivers, maniacs on the roads and too many semis and large vehicles now). The interstate system was supposed to be safer we were told, and indeed it seemed to be in the beginning, liked the older roads but felt safer on the uglier, not-very-scenic interstates and freeways. Not any more. The little people would be the first to lose their rights and not only if cars were banned.

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