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Rose seeds..delaying stratification ?

Posted by erasmus 7a NC (My Page) on
Sun, Sep 14, 08 at 14:44

Last year I harvested hips in late fall, put seeds in the fridge, planted, and grew some seedlings under lights for a short time before being able to put outside in spring. This year I have lots of hips turning orange already, but want to know whether I can store them at room temperature awhile before stratifying. The reason is because I don't want to have to have them under lights a long time once they sprout.

Would it hurt germination to let them dry out before stratifying? Would it be best to leave them in the hips awhile or even leave them on the plant for the maximum amount of time before they shrivel up and drop off? Also, what is the maximum amount of time recommended for keeping them in the fridge if they haven't sprouted yet?
Thank you,
Linda


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Rose seeds..delaying stratification ?

Dr. Holloway says no, but I did buy rugosa seeds in a store, and obviously I bought them dried out.

Here is a link that might be useful: Dr. Holloway explains exactly how to harvest store and stratify rose achenes.


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RE: Rose seeds..delaying stratification ?

Stratifying in the refrigerator is meant to simulate the cold that the hips and seeds would be subjected to during winter. As such, I would imagine that you could store your hips in the fridge until you're ready to deal with the seeds in the spring.

There are great discussions about hybridizing and harvesting and growing seeds on the General Hybridizing Discussion section on another rose forum, but GW keeps rejecting this message because I refer to the forum (Ros****n's Corner) by name. Grrr. Contact me through My Page, and I'll send you the link if you don't have it already.

Connie


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RE: Rose seeds..delaying stratification ?

Cannabisgrower, thanks for the link. His method is a little different than others I've read, but I have heard that alternating cold and warmth can improve germination. I tried that a little last year. I didn't get good very germination rates last year. What results did you get from dried rugosa seeds?

Connie, I will check out that site..thank you. I can't believe GW would worry about people going to other sites!
Last year when I had some of my seeds in the fridge for several months someone told me to take them out right away. That batch had especially poor germination rates so I thought maybe they'd been chilled too long. Maybe they can tolerate being chilled in the hip longer than in paper towels..I think I read that there is something in the hip pulp that inhibits germination. I know that once they sprout in the fridge, you can't keep them in there indefinitely because the little sprouts need light. I just don't have a lot of space for light set-ups, unless I went vertical and rigged up a tall wire shelf with lights on each level. Hmm..I think maybe that's an option.

Do you know of any seed parent dud lists? I know Paul Barden has a list of good seed parents which is helpful. I'd like a list of duds so I don't waste my time on them.
From last year I could eliminate a number of varieties but it's too early to tell if those varieties are duds or if something else caused them not to sprout. I did get about 15 seedlings, of which I have a few plants now. But I planted lots of seeds. ARe you harvesting hips yet?
Linda


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RE: Rose seeds..delaying stratification ?

Re. mentioning other sites: GW says it's a spam thing. Yeah, right. We have no problem linking to HMF pages . . . why to other forums? . . . the ones without ads, mind you. Oh, I get it . . .

The chrome rack from Costco seems to be the way to go for many indoor plant growing people. I know there are many orchid people who use this, and it does very well for me in my basement work room (aka., The Grow Room), except I had to leave off one of the shelves in order to have room for my bottle greenhouses and the lights . . . but I was mainly using mine for rooting dormant cuttings. I had one shelf devoted to seeds. Our old brick, unheated basement has been the ideal space to garden indoors. If I need colder (but not freezing) space, I used the workbench in the attached garage. If everything goes according to plan, by the end of next week we'll have the greenhouse mostly finished (she says, with her fingers crossed).

I was reading an article early this year (while I had seeds under lights) in an old ARS annual that talked about how to increase germination in rose seeds. It said after the initial cold period (which I had done already) there should be the expected flurry of germinations, but things will begin to taper off and eventually stop. Put the flat back into the fridge for another couple of weeks, take it back out, and more seeds should germinate after that.

In another article in a different annual, Dr. Van Fleet, talks about leaving his seed beds for 2 full years -- and that he would get scattered germinations all that time. I believe I read somewhere that Ralph Moore may do the same thing, but don't quote me on this one. I know Dr. Van Fleet had open seed beds outdoors in Maryland. I guess he was relying on winter weather to stratify his seeds.

I had planned to work with only a few selected hips this year, but I've already veered from that path. With almost 200 roses still to plant, it seemed silly to generate seedlings to have to baby. But the little baby roses are so little and cute, and it's so rewarding to watch them grow into bigger roses and flower. I'm watching some hips on Old Blush, Honey Perfume, Souvenir du Dr. Jamain, and some others that I can't recall right now. But . . . this weekend I took a huge hip from Robert's Madame Gregoire Staechlin (the thing looked like a fig!) and I cleaned the seeds and put them in the crisper.

So much for my plan. :)

Connie


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RE: Rose seeds..delaying stratification ?

Connie, I went to that other site..lots of info there. It'll be interesting to see what you get from Mme G Staechlin.

I have a wire shelf thing, so guess I should put it to work. It's in my unheated laundry room so maybe that would be a plus. How cold does your basement get?

Sounds like I need to be harvesting some hips now before they get too mushy but four months in the fridge sounds like a long time. Winter sowing outdoors is worth a try too..less work I bet.
Linda


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RE: Rose seeds..delaying stratification ?

Working from memory here . . . I believe the area where the roses are in my basement stays around 60 degrees (there's a thermometer on one of the shelves) These big old brick houses keep heat pretty well, if the drafts don't blow it outside too quickly. The only heat in that room or the one next to it is the boiler pipe along the ceiling that services the radiators on the main level of the house. I hang my top shop/grow light from this pipe. :)

Here's a photo of the set-up, for those who may not have seen it before:
Photobucket

I believe in doing things very simply. No fancy lights or complicated procedures. Cheap shop lights from HD, daylight-type fluorescent bulbs, and a Christmas light timer to turn the lights on and off automatically. Be sure to keep the seedling really close to the light -- within a few inches, so they don't have to stretch to try to reach it. In my case, the light is mounted at the top of the shelf space, and I put the seedling flats or pots on stuff like boxes, or shims, or whatever I have handy to lift them up toward the light, and I remove things to lower them as they get taller. Or you could hang your light from chain to make it easier to raise it as needed.

One day I may try winter sowing outdoors . . . after all, aren't gardeners just mad scientists at heart?

Connie


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RE: Rose seeds..delaying stratification ?

Maybe not, but I'd rather be safe than sorry. The humidity in the basement in winter runs around 40% -- a bit too dry for cuttings.

Connie


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RE: Rose seeds..delaying stratification ?

Hi everyone, this is a very interesting thread.
Last year I picked my hips early (at about 90-100 days)because of squirrels, and kept the hips in the frig for about a month in a plastic bag. They germinated ok. I was wondering how long you keep your hips on the bush before harvesting them? I have squirrels that have been lurking around looking for food and am so afraid they will steal them again this year, and I have about 2-3 weeks left for the hips to ripen. So when do you pick your hips from the bush?


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RE: Rose seeds..delaying stratification ?

according to Dr. Patricia Holloway:
Harvest rose hips that have just begun to turn red or orange and before the pulp becomes soft.


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RE: Rose seeds..delaying stratification ?

Thank you cannabisgrower. Well my hips are still green, so I guess I will just have to keep a close eye on them and for the squirrels. I have been using these baby bottle drop-in liners to cover them so this might keep them away.


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RE: Rose seeds..delaying stratification ?

This is only the second year I've been doing this. I have just started to harvest my newly orange ones. Last year I think many of the ones I harvested had been orange a couple of months. Maybe that's why germination was not so good. BUT I read somewhere that hips that have been through a light freeze germinate better. That's one reason I thought it would be ok to leave them on the bush longer last year. I guess I'll find out by trying different methods myself.
Linda


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RE: Rose seeds..delaying stratification ?

I'm wondering if the hip itself protects the seeds from really cold weather and when it freezes??


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RE: Rose seeds..delaying stratification ?

I doubt that the hip is much of a protection from cold. Instead, it is the fruit that the animal (bird) eats and allows the seeds to be dispersed.

Robert


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RE: Rose seeds..delaying stratification ?

I just checked out Henry Kuska's website again, which is very interesting. He is a retired chemist, so he keeps detailed records of his hybridizing experiments. He says that the rose hips probably will be ok down to 25 degrees.

Also, something I hadn't noticed before- he said to give the seeds a two month period of warm stratification in sand before giving them the two month cold treatment. That's perfect for what I wanted since I didn't want my seedlings to sprout too quickly. I'm going to try that, and switch to sand. Also the enzyme treatment sounds worth a try. His site is at home.neo.rr.com/kuska

It sounded to me like he has had the best results picking hips when they are not just starting to turn orange, but are definitely orange, and still firm.

Linda


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RE: Rose seeds..delaying stratification ?

Hi Linda,

I like to read Henry's site too, I could spend hours there.

I have been using sand for my seeds for awaile now and I believe the sand keeps the seeds from getting moldy also they germinate well in the sand. What containers does everyone use to store your seeds in?


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RE: Rose seeds..delaying stratification ?

Hi Robert, I just felt that maybe the hip's thickness was like a barrier for the seeds against the cold. I have found hips with seeds in the spring that survived the winter at temperatures in the teens and those seeds germintated, crazy huh?

Hi Linda,

I like to read Henry's site too, I could spend hours there.

I have been using sand for my seeds for awaile now and I believe the sand keeps the seeds from getting moldy also they germinate well in the sand. What kind of containers does everyone use to store their seeds in?

I found these plastic stackable containers that I think I might use for this time, I was using little plastic baby food containers which worked ok. These stackable containers are about 3 inches round and I can save on space with these.
Photobucket


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RE: Rose seeds..delaying stratification ?

Could someone send me Henry's site. I asked someone else and they didn't have it.
Canibas, could you send or post Patricia Holloway's article please.

Thanks,
Carla


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RE: Rose seeds..delaying stratification ?

Here's Henry Kuska's site:
http://home.neo.rr.com/kuska/

Patricia Holloway's is in a link above.

You can also check out the Rose Hybridizer Association's forum.
http://www.rosehybridizers.org/

(BTW, cannabis isn't here anymore.)

Connie


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