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deanarue

Starting Salvia Guaranitica from seed

deanarue
18 years ago

Last year I moved to ID, trying to garden in the desert has been a struggle for me . I read about salvia Guaranitica on the Hummingbird webpage. I finally found them and the planting instructions seem very complicated to me, Is this really necessary?

" Sow from Feb.- Jul. just covering the seed with compost. Seal inside a polythene bag, keep at 13-18C for 1 week, then place in refrigerator,3-5C.after 6 weeks return to warmth. If germination does not occur..return to fridge...Bla bla... There is more but as you see the instructions seem overly complicated. Can anyone Help? Eternal gratitude forthcoming

Comments (28)

  • rosewomann
    18 years ago

    Sounds like a candidate for winter sowing. Check out the winter sowing forum faqs.
    Rose

    Here is a link that might be useful: winter sowing faqs

  • rich_dufresne
    18 years ago

    Salvia guaranitica does not set much seed, so make sure your seeds are oval, black, and shiny. It grows in Argentina, Brazil, and Paraguay in USDA euivalent zones 6b - 8b and should not require stratification. Seed needs to ripen for about 3 months before sowing. Most sages need sunlight and temperatures near 75 degrees to germinate. Subtropical species generally sprout in 5 to 20 days with a median of 7 - 8 days.

  • penny1947
    18 years ago

    I just got my first seed to germinate from the seeds I collected from my plant last fall. I only sowed about a half dozen so far. I just keep my seeds stored in a cool place until I was ready to sow them. Like Rich stated above mine germinated in about 6 or 7 days.

    Guaranitica is a little iffy to winter sow. I have done it but didn't do them until late March and kept the soil more on the dry side until the temps really warmed up. Unless you have a lot of seeds to spare, I wouldn't suggest trying the wintersowing method for this plant.

    Penny

  • ramazz
    17 years ago

    I just found this and thought I would pull it to the top. A question for Penny if she is around - did you store your seed for 3 months before sowing? I just sowed some last weekend from my own plants and I don't think it had been sitting for 3 months. Also, the first poster indicates these should be refrigerated, and that sounds counterintuitive to me, since it is from a warm climate originally.

  • hummersteve
    17 years ago

    Becky , glad you found this and revived it. I dont mean to speak for penny but I happen to know she had been having some trouble with her web connections and she has been busy filling some orders and hasnt been on here lately. I too dont really understand to the fridge bit, but penny has told me to keep any seeds I get in the fridge untill Im ready to sow. I too have started a b & b seed just to see how long it would take if it did. Only thing is the seed I used wasnt as dark as the others , but my thinking was if it germinated then certainly the rest will. I dont think you need to wait 3mo before sow . I will let you know when and if mine germ.

    Steve

  • rich_dufresne
    17 years ago

    Seed of Salvia species really don't need refrigeration, unless you want to keep them for more than five years. If they must be refrigerated, they must be kept dry. Store in envelopes, not vials, and thoroughly dry the seed. If there is residual moisture, you will wind up with moldy seed that will not germinate. If you know when the seed is optimally dry and free of mold, seeds can be kept in vials. If you choose vial storage, don't go back and forth between refrigeration and on the self storage.

  • hummersteve
    17 years ago

    All my seed is in envelope type containers and also in tupperware sealed containers . we shall see what happens

  • Salvia_guy
    17 years ago

    I store my seed in paper number one coin envelopes. It allows them to dry completely and breathe.

    SG

  • ramazz
    17 years ago

    Well, last night I noticed that one of my B&B seeds has germinated. It took about 2 weeks and I was just about to give up, since Rich and Penny had indicated an average time of 7 days. I have 19 more planted that haven't sprouted, so I guess I will give them another 10 days or so before I try different ones. I have more that look ripe but the ones I planted looked ripe, too.

    I have these on a heat mat with a plant light and am keeping the soil moist and misting the seeds once a day.

    Becky

  • hummersteve
    17 years ago

    Well my seed has not germed yet and it has been 8days. I dont have a heat mat but I have a shop light and keeping it moist and am keeping the room at about 75 degrees. Im going to let it go for another week and then maybe give up on it. Remember its the least likely seed I have to germ as a b + b.

  • ramazz
    17 years ago

    Hey, Steve, don't give up too quickly. I think another one of mine is sprouting today as it looks like a root is coming out of one end of the seed. I may extend my time limit based upon whether anything else sprouts. I do think bottom heat helps when trying to germinate seeds inside. Some people use alternate heat sources, like appliances, floor vents or radiators to provide the bottom heat. I got talked into the heat mat by a local lady who has a gardening business.

    Keep the faith! Becky

  • rich_dufresne
    17 years ago

    Though I have said that Salvia seed germinates around 5 to 7 days, that is the typical time that MANY start to germinate. Some take up to 2 months to start, and germination still takes place after one week later even on the early ones.

  • hummersteve
    17 years ago

    Becky-- I just noticed on the instructions I received for my b & b that germination can take 14-31 days, so I guess I will be patient a little longer.

  • ramazz
    17 years ago

    Steve: As of today, I have 4 seeds that have sprouted out of the 20 I planted. I am going to leave the unsprouted ones where they are for a while longer, too. It has actually been about 3 weeks since I planted them; I don't remember exactly, though. They aren't taking up much space anyway.

    Becky

  • hummersteve
    17 years ago

    Congrats !! Becky , I will let you know if I have any luck with mine

  • penny1947
    17 years ago

    Hi Becky,
    I store my salvia seeds after they have dried on the door of my refrigerator or in my cool mudroom so they stay fresh AND so I don't lose them in the miriad of seed envelops that I have everywhere. I never read where they should be cooled for 3 months before sowing. I have sprouted some shortly after collecting and drying.

    Penny

  • ramazz
    17 years ago

    Hi, Penny. I planted 20 seeds and have 8 (I think) that have sprouted. Some took 2 weeks and the most recent sprout took over 3 weeks. My seeds have been back and forth between the house and an unheated workshop, which I would guess is about the same as being in the fridge.

    Becky

  • penny1947
    17 years ago

    Becky
    I hope you get some of your seedlings to come true. My Black & Blue's usually run about 20-25% true. I get some unusual plants from my seed as they are all open pollinated. I have a 4 yr. old sport that blooms a very pale lavender but it isn't a consistant bloomer and it stays small which makes it good for growing in a container. Last year was the first year I saw my hummers use it but it has never set any seed.

    Penny

  • ramazz
    17 years ago

    Penny:

    I actually am hoping to get something interesting. I have several B&Bs around the yard and they came back from the previous year. My largest one was shrub size. It was right next to my salvia elegans and also near the salvia coccinea Lady in Red, so I am hoping to get a "new" plant. I harvested quite a few seeds but who knows if they were ripe enough to germinate or if they are fertile.

    I plan to try with a new group of 20 soon. The ones that didn't germinate from the first group have moved outside with some of my other salvia "slowpokes." I will be surprised to see anything grow in that container, but if any of them need a cold cycle, they are getting it.

    Becky

  • hummersteve
    17 years ago

    Penny-- What if in the spring I were to find a b&b plant in any local garden center or nursery could I expect it to come true or am only kidding myself and should I try to instead get a cutting or plant elsewhere If I expect to get the true black calyx and blue flowers so desired. IF that be the case then I too may have to get one from "A World of Salvias"

  • penny1947
    17 years ago

    Steve
    If you find a B&B at a local nursery in the spring it should indeed be a true B&B. Most garden centers don't propagate their own plants. They usually order them from wholesale nurseries that specialize in propagating many plants from cuttings. If you are really concerned, you certainly can order safely from Rich at A World of Salvias. One of our hummer gardeners just ordered about 10 different salvias I believe from Rich.

    Penny

  • hummersteve
    17 years ago

    Penny, Im not really that concerned , just wanted to know what to expect out of one purchased in that way. Its just that its quite difficult to find the black and blue unless it is cutting. Obviously from seed it hard to say what you will get.

  • penny1947
    17 years ago

    Most garden centers receive their plants from wholesale growers and my own experience is that plants that tend to cross easily are propagated from cuttings rather than seed. Rich will correct me if I am wrong on that. So it is a pretty safe bet that if the plant tag says Black & Blue it will be a Black & Blue. The only time It would be otherwise is if the tag was placed in the wrong container.

    Penny

  • rich_dufresne
    17 years ago

    Penny is right about the propagation of B&B and other plants easily done from cuttings. Guaraniticas just don't set much seed, so you could not really seed propagate efficiently.

    On the other hand, if you want to sell the old fashioned Salvia guaranitica (from Brazil, the one I originally got from Logee's Greenhouses in the late 70s), using the Latin binomial won't get you a lot of customers. Thus, a big time grower might want to call it Sapphire Sage, which mistakenly confers possible selection status to it. Since marketing is paramount, the provenance is neglected and confusion results.

  • steve-wright_att_net
    15 years ago

    As it turns out I was never able to get b & b to germ inside so I tried wintersowing outside and I had several sprout from that and they all came true. I keep my seed in a tupperware container in the fridge and maybe it doesnt matter if you wintersow outside, maybe it makes a difference for inside.

  • hummersteve
    15 years ago

    Rich--- I was very pleased with the salvia blue ensign I recieved from you last year , It was taller than my b & b plants and was a top favorite of hummers along with agastache tutti fruitti. But I became pretty sick during the time I should have collected seed and since it is unlikely it will come back I may order more from you this year.

  • domehomedee
    9 years ago

    This has been interesting reading. I collected quite a few seeds from the B & B I bought this summer. Thinking I'll winter sow some in my greenhouse and save some in the frig for sowing in spring. I'd love to have a bunch of these around the garden, they are lovely.

  • Susie Schmitz
    last year

    What starting medium have you found works best? I have peat pellets, peat/perlite mix. I also have a mix of compost peat and pumas. Would you recommend flats or cells?

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