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planter_geek

Likely to die?

planter_geek
15 years ago

How likely is it that Salvia plants will arrive dead or die shortly after I receive one if I were to buy online. Savlia Divinorum grows from pieces of the plant cut off to make a clone. I don't understand which part of the plant is cut off or if I even said that right, but I think you more experienced Salvia gardeners may know what I'm talking about.

Comments (12)

  • rich_dufresne
    15 years ago

    Mint family plants, including sages, are propagated from stem cuttings. The stem cells are located in the axils, where the side shoots come out, immediately above where the leaf stems are attached.

  • ccroulet
    15 years ago

    Are you saying we should cut above the nodes, rather than below?

  • rich_dufresne
    15 years ago

    I always take cuttings with firm green stems (no bark) from robustly growing plants. I trim off the bottom pair or two with bonsai shears, close to the stem, and submerge the lowest third into the rooting medium. Having submerged cells allows for the stem cells in the nodes to develop lateral stems or stolons that have subterranean virgin nodes that can further branch.

    A cutting that has no working subterranean nodes cannot produce secondary shoots to take over when the main one breaks or ages out, thus killing the plant prematurely.

    A plant that has only one node should be planted deeper to at least the first active node, or have some branches layered.

  • ccroulet
    15 years ago

    I'm not clear that you've answered the question, Rich. Your 7:42 posting implies (at least as I read it) that you suggest cutting above the nodes. I have a printout from the "Master Gardener" in Sonoma Co. who says to do this, but when I recently asked Wyatt Andrews, chief horticulturist of the Santa Barbara Botanic Garden, about it, he gave me the weirdest "That guy nuts!" look. Andrews cuts immediately below the node, and that's the procedcure I've followed both before and since his talk.

  • rich_dufresne
    15 years ago

    I was describing the very local area of the node itself, not the site of the cutting, which I take just below the swelling of the node where the stem resumes its normal diameter. Axillary growth can come from either just above or just below the point where the petiole joins the stem. After making the stem cut, I often pull off the leaf, which often would take some of the stem with it (the "heel"), thus exposing the cambium and making it easier to develop roots. If I do this, the stem cells in the heel that leaves with the leaf is lost. These are more often secondary axils anyway. When I am propagating a new sage, I experiment with either clipping or pulling off the leaves off the bottom node, right after making the stem cut.

    Cuttings with heels are often taken pulling axillary stems off the larger trunk. The portion of the trunk's bark and cambium that is pulled off to remove excess. Doing this will either get you a rooted cutting quicker, expose it to pathogens more quickly, or promote callus growth, depending on the species and conditions.

    I think I will take some images with my new flatbed scanner of my techniques and put them on my web site. Hopefully, I will start making new scans in about 10 to 12 days.

    I'm going from a 600 x 600 dpi HP Scanjet 3cx to a 4800 x 4800 dpi HP Scanjet 8300. It's the only one in my price range that can handle 3D objects, graphics media, and can take a full 8.5 x 14 inch scan. Does anyone know of anything comparable from other manufacturers?

  • hybridsage
    15 years ago

    I start cuttings with green (not woody or semi woody)
    growth.Take a cutting that has 3-4 axils,remove any new growth (just above the first axil)remove foliage from the bottom 1-2 axils make a 45 degree cut below the last axil.
    This will allow for maximum uptake of rooting hormone(and water)
    until they develop new roots on the leafless remaining axils.The remaining pair of leaves are left to keep photosynthesis occuring.On the larger leaf varieties I will also cut 1/3 of the leaf to reduce water loss through them. While doing this let your cutting soak in the liquid IBA. Mist three time a day with water
    & superthrive (liquid B 1)I get 98% rooting w/ this method.
    Please make sure your cutting is shaded all day until it develops new roots (60% Shade). I don't use a mist tent
    this is all done out in the open under shade cloth. I have not grown any of the cloud forest salvia's which would
    benefit from the added humidity in a mist tent.

  • ccroulet
    15 years ago

    At this time I can only discuss Calif. native plants being propagated in Calif., salvias specifically. I don't mean to imply that any of the following is applicable to other plants or other regions. I asked Mr. Wyatt, from SBBG, about the commonly-used diagonal cut, and he didn't think it was necessary. He just cuts straight across. He didn't seem to think it mattered much either way. He uses liquid hormone. He does not recommend trimming leaves in most cases, feeling the risk of infection outweighs the risk of water loss. But these are already small-leaved, drought resistant plants.

    In my own projects this spring, I've had good success propagating S. clevelandii and S. "Dara's Choice" (sonomensis x mellifera hybrid) in a tray under a plastic dome. I sprayed the plants occasionally from a water bottle, because, even under a dome, they can dry quickly unless one pays close attention. Wyatt recommends misting systems, but I'm not in a position to do that right now. BTW, Salvia "Dara's Choice" is particularly easy to propagate. I got good roots within 10 days. S. clevelandii took 14 to 22 days. I think I probably was lucky in getting the S. clevelandii cuttings at exactly the right time (two sets from wild plants in early March & early April). Ask me in a few months, and I may have opinions about some of the others. I've only grown S. mellifera from seed. S. apiana was grown mostly from seed and one cutting. I talked to the owner of a commercial native-plant nursery this last weekend, and he was startled that I had good success with S. apiana from seed, which he thought was difficult, and he was quizzing little old me on how to do it.

  • peterls
    15 years ago

    I have had some success with cuttings, by placing cutting material with anything up to 20 leaves on in a heated propagator, and flooding the floor of the propagator with water. The result is that the cutting is in 100% humidity and cannot lose any moisture. 'Mystic Spires', involucrata and leucantha all produced really good roots in about 10 days.

    I appreciate that 100% humidity risks botrytis, but I have never had it with Salvias or any other plants. Does a misting chamber give 100% humidity and do they carry the same risk?

  • planter_geek
    Original Author
    15 years ago

    Are you guys speaking chinese? I think I'll need to learn some new jargon.

  • ccroulet
    15 years ago

    What jargon?

  • planter_geek
    Original Author
    15 years ago

    axils,
    side shoots,
    nodes (only used this word in Computer Programming and interesting, there is something called a Binary Search Tree with Nodes and all types of Trees with Nodes that are traversed),
    swelling of the node,
    stolons,
    virgin nodes,
    axillary growth,
    cambium
    You don't have to explain foliage. I know this one. I'm still a beginner, but I feel I am progressing fast.
    liquid IBA,
    heated propagator,

  • ladyslppr
    15 years ago

    planter-geek,
    If you have a decent-sized salvia to get cuttings from, then find a few vigorous-looking stems of about pencil diameter. Cut them into pieces about 6 or 8 inches long, making sure at least three sets of leaves (or nodes where leaves used to appear or could appear) are part of each cutting. Remove the leaves from the lower one or two nodes, and leave the leaves on the upper one or two nodes. Stick half the length of the cutting vertically into moist potting soil, and keep it in a shady, warm, moist place. keep the soil moist. Make five or ten cuttings and put them together in the same pot of soil, for insurance. After a couple of weeks, some of the cuttings should start to show new growth of leaves. These are the cuttings that are rooting. Let them grow, gradually moving to a partly sunny spot, and once they have grown a couple of inches, you can repot them or move them to the ground.

    I think this is basically the same advice as you got from the other responders, but I hope I've avoided most of the jargon.

    If you buy a plant online, I don't see any reason why it should die unless it isn't actually rooted or you don't treat it right. Most salvias are reasonably tolerant and easy to grow, so any potting soil, a reasonable amount of sunshine, consistent moisture are all that should be necessary to keep your plant alive.

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