Tell us about your height and width requirements as well. I am assuming you are in the Dallas-Fort Worth area, which tells us something about the humidity. Some do better in arid or Mediterranean climates than they do in subtropical areas. Should microphyllas be considered?

The following have true red flowers, all identical in color: Furman's Red, Keter's Red, Cherry Chief, Cherry Queen, Red velvet, Maraschino, microphylla deltoid-leaved.

The following have a more fuchsia color: Dark Dancer, Raspberry Royale, Raspberry Delight, Plum Wine (lighter in color), Dieciocho de Marzo, San Carlos Festival, Hoja Grande. These lists are not comprehensive.

Flame is a bit more orange than the other true reds.

Hi, Rich ~

We usually have a mix of "dry heat" and "wet heat", however, the past eight months has been outrageously windy. A bit more to the Mediterranean climate than arid, but we go dry, its really dry.

I'm planning to use these as low evergreen shrubs (not a hedge) in a very informal, irregular, "water-wise" setting. It seems that the S. greggii I've observed in the Mid-Cities (the area surrounding D/FW airport between Dallas and Fort Worth) are hardy through our winters & have a general habit I'd love to incorporate into my gardens.

I also have turk's cap, rusty blackhaw viburnum, and yaupon holly. I prefer simple color schemes and am looking for year-round true red interest amongst the foliage & rocks.

How does the appearance & hardiness of the microphyllas differ from greggii?

I definitely don't want orange-reds, nor fuschia-reds. Thanks for the additional true reds.

~ freshair

Freshair:
I have had problems with "Furmans Red" in full sun mine
are in morning sun /Afternoon shade and bloom nicely
there. In full sun it dies in the triple digit heat.
FYI-Seville Farms was sending out a S. greggii"Furmans Red"
which is mis-labeled.I don't have a cultivar name for theirs but it gets big 5'x5' and performs well for me here
in Austin. Cherry Queen,S microphylla x greggii 'Red
Velvet' both perform well here and keep in the 3' range.
With the heat here the flower colors fade to pink in the afternoon they just are not Sunfast.If you can find it
"Navajo Bright Red" has performed great even in the drought last year.The Navajo and Cherry Queen both have the pronounced veins on the leaves.Where Red Velvet and other forms have smooth leaves. Navajo and Cherry Queen will be
better plants for you in the winters when you have Snow.
Sorry about the small novel.
Art
leaves

I forgot to include Orange Door to the true red microphylla sages.

Microphyllas are around three times the size of most greggii sages, with hybrids like Cherry chief intermediate. Greggiis have linear leaves with smooth edges. Microphyllas have dentate edged leaves with a deltoid to cordate shape, and are hairy. Hybrids vary in all the aspects, but usually have a partial invagination at the base of the corolla pointing to the nectary. Greggiis are smooth, and microphyllas have this obvious secondary flower modification.

Hi, guys ~

I'm usually in the Texas forum and forgot to check this thread. Thanks so much for all the helpful information. I definitely don't want anything larger than 4'x4', so microphyllas are probably out.

Art, I'm glad you commented on Furman's Red wilting, b/c I do plan to put them in full sun (5-8 hours of uninterrupted south-facing sun) and F'sR has been the only variety I've found locally. I may just have to break down and order them.

~ freshair

Howdy, again ~

While at my local Lowe's, I noticed two 1gal S. greggii labeled "Foreman Red", growing 12-20" high. I haven't found much information at all about it online, but there some hits. If this is a typo for "Furman's Red", the other people, including nurseries, have made the same typo.

Any ideas about this variety? Is it very hardy?

~ freshair

It probably is Furman's Red, like you opined. Is this plant supplied by a local grower, or by a nursery like Monrovia?

It should be compact and have pure red flowers.

Hmmm. If I remember correctly, they were in non-descript black pots with ordinary store stickers. I don't remember a brand name like Proven Winners or Monrovia.

But it was in Lowe's, so who knows where it came from. My local Ace sells manure/compost from a facility only three counties away (I'm near Dallas), while our closest Home Depot sells compost from central Louisiana. So it's likely a small-ish grower, but who knows whether they're local.

The few hits I got on "Foreman Red" were order forms/lists. No descriptions or discussions or images. Along with the phonetic similarity, that's what made me think it might be a typo.

At $2.50/gal, I guess I can afford to risk a red-fading-to-pink. We see how they do.

~ freshair

We recieved a shipment from Powers landscape out of Mesquite they had "Furman's Red" Once again a plant that
is mis labeled. Large Leaves and large "Red" flowers and very open.
The Furmans I have (From Monrovia Nursery in California) is very compact small leaves.That form should do fine for you
(what ever it is).It has been taking our 101-105 temps without any problems.
Art

One of my self-assigned chore for the thirty years I have been doing Salvias is to check on nurseries to make sure that the various species, hybrids, and forms are correctly identified. I always check out the Salvia section of nurseries that are major sources of distribution, like Logees and Sandy Mush.

If I can't find agreement (including my participation) on a subject, I will usually make note of it. For example, I usually refer to S. puberula as a separate species because. a number of other writers simply reduce it to S. involucrata. As far as I know, taxonomists have reduced it to S. involucrata var. puberula and leave off the variety part, which leads to a lot of confusion when one refers to the varieties of puberula like El Butano.

Thank God for people like Robin Middleton and Christian Froissart for their efforts to do the same.

I've found that tracking Salvia greggii, S. microphylla, and their hybrids to be especially vexing.

If it isn't compact with small, linear leaves, it is not Furman's red

Y'all are the best.

These two have leaves and structure more or less identical (in a very non-scientific way) to the S. greggii I know. The tags say they'll grow 12-20" tall and 12-18" wide & require full sun and excellent drainage.

The only other salvia I know intimately are "Lady in Red" and the nemorosas "May Night" and "Snow Hill", and they're nothing like them.

~ freshair

freshair :
One day when I am going to Arlington I will see if
your available to meet( if thats ok). That way we can
help you out. Here in Texas I see lots of mistakes made
my our growers here. I sent a S.greggii"Raspberry Ripple" to Colorspot Nurseries( then called Lonestar Growers).
They now sell a plant that does not resemble "Raspberry"
at all but still label it as such. They are not the only culprits.I see Hines Wholesale Nursery labels S.microphylla "Hot Lips" as a greggii which it clearly is not. Rich is right S.Microphylla, S.greggii and their hybrids are vexing.
Art

sent you an email, art
~ amy

I know as a home grower I easily get confused. A couple of years ago I received a substitute plant labelled as microphylla San Carlos Festival. It isn't, it has extremely dark red flowers. It has created a problem. Normally I would not care all that much except this plant has been outstanding in the garden, staying small and compact, blooming earlier than other microphylla and staying in bloom through the hottest of days. In other words it is a perfect pass-along plant which I have been reluctant to share because of its namelessness.

Wardda:
Have you posted a picture? Some of the best people who post on this site can help solve your Salvia I.D problem. What do you think?
Art

I like a red greggii but Ive tried furmans red here a couple of times and they havent performed well at all. They are in pretty much full sun till about 3pm. I have some autumn sage now that I have taken cuttings from and they have rooted but I wouldnt mind getting more reds next year of different kinds.

Hummersteve, is that true of all other straight Salvia greggii forms as well? True Furman's Red did very well for me the 2 - 3 years I grew it in Massachusetts. It was in full sun in somewhat gravelly dandy loam.

We have had several growing years that were really poor for growing Salvias in North Carolina. In 2007, we had much heat, with August temperatures mostly in the 100s, extending well into September. July was in the 90s, In 2008, it was hard to tell what was going on with the weather

This year, conditions seem to be really good for the subtropical sages. I am rebuilding my collection nicely. This includes finding and growing out once lost members of my collection, then cuttings from the new stock plants. So far, so good. I hope I also get some good blooms in late summer and autumn.

Art, I will see what I can do because I could use the help. A garden helper of mine took a whole series of photos a month or so ago and put them on her snapfish site. I will check and see what the photo numbers are.

I bought the two "Foreman Red", along with a "Lipstick". The Lipstick has not yet been planted, but is flowering a light/medium pink. I planted one of the FRs in a bed in my h3llstrip that gets full sun until suppertime - within my property lines, that'll be the ultimate test with maximum sun and minimum supplemental water. Because I was planting in the sun during the summer, I cut it back to 8 inches, so it'll be a while before I can test the colors, then even longer before I have an idea of its durability in our summers.

I thought Lipstick was supposed to be a good red - as in an actual red and not a reddish pink. This is a full pink, not a faded or pinkish-red. And I've had it in partial sun to protect it until I can plant, so its not suffering from marginal conditions.

Hummersteve: in what part of GA are you - lowcountry or uplands? I lived in Savh for a while.

~ freshair

If it is pink it isn't Lipstick, because Lipstick is some kind of light red. Mine were run over by our cold winter, only about 4 of 10 plants survived and several are still quite small. Tony Avent has a good photo in Plant Delights I recall. That is where my original plant came from. It may not be in the current catalogue but you could check. There are so many pink greggii that it is difficult to say what you have and that is understandably very frustrating. There seems to be an explosion of greggii these days. They seed around pretty well in the right conditions and even the worst of them have fine qualities. And that creates yet another problem, which to keep and which to compost.

Wardda:
We will look forward to you pictures.

Hummersteve:
Has the microphylla group performed better the greggii's?
Art

Art, I emailed you the snapfish website where a garden helper keeps her photos of the salvias, did you get it? I can do much with my dial-up old and slow computer.

Wardda:
Got the e-mail We were having dinner w/ Family so my reply is rather late. How are your Salvia's doing with all this rain the east Coast is getting?Please send some down here
we are about to dry up and blow away.I have lost a few Salvias in this drought. But greggii,microphylla seedlings are doing fine.
Art

As I've found the greggii labels to not always be very accurate, I am just saying how mine were labeled by the nurseries and they have not been verified by an expert. I'm not a collector, but I use a lot of salvias for the long boom season. All of mine are in bloom right now and have been blooming well since May.

I am growing a few of the red greggii in part sun. The ones labeled 'cherry queen' are growing under a crape myrtle on the south west side of the house and doing great. They don't get morning sun, but get midday to afternoon sun.

For almost three years now, the ones labeled 'Navajo red' are protected from afternoon sun by a large weeping willow. I thought I had lost those from our snows this winter. I cut back 4 of the 5 to the basal foliage and they have now caught up with the 1 that I left alone.

The greggii varieties that are getting 8-10 hours of sun in my garden are 'Diane', 'Texas Wedding', 'Dark Dancer' and one that BB just had labeled as 'Autumn Sage' that is a hot pink color.

Cameron